Come fucking on. No way this is going to last much longer without developing into a cauldron. Retreat is obligatory for the Ukrainians if they're to avoid unnecessayr losses. Any ex-military anons willing to confirm? I'm hinting at a neutral and objective stance for the reason that it'd actually validate whatever points you make, instead of the usual /uhg/ vs /chug/ assblasted troonfest
they said they would defend Bakhmut
they should draft more Ukrainians
It already is a cauldron.
Ukraine is finally beginning to retreat under fire.
They never had to retreat under fire in the first place, why couldn't they tactically retreat like the Russians did earlier in the war, how much manpower would've been saved?
>how much manpower would've been saved?
zelenskike is trying to kill the manpower (ukrainian men)
Because they were well dug into defensive positions. Retreating across open ground is sometimes more dangerous.
Ukraine should retreat to the hills
>t. veteran of the Sierra Leone civil war, advising member to the Eastern Security Front, helped secure lines for Ambazonian separatists
>>>>>>>>t. veteran of the Sierra Leone civil war, advising member to the Eastern Security Front, helped secure lines for Ambazonian separatists
you don't need to use THE arrow when you are mentioning yourself you silly amerimutt.
In this case I used it like a signature, not a quote. Hope that helps my Moldovan friend!
The hills are contested territory on the north flank, they get to run through a low corridor now with no roads and that's it. Something tells me they're not gonna. At least they evacuated half of their 60k defenders lol. RIP 30k. You know what the worst thing is? These retards keep getting their best units decimated, and that's literally the plan. By the time a new major offensive comes the Ukrainians will be as prepared as the Russian's new greens. Morons would ironically do their whole country a lot better just marching back to Kiev and killing everyone in the parliament buildings, dropping NATO membership and saying "THERE, OK HAVE DONETSK AND LUHANSK AND CRIMEA AND LEAVE US ALONE NOW" and then sign a treaty that will get the entirety of Eastern Europe (Not fucking NATO or EU) involved if Russia tries anything else. I want a third European joint alliance. It has always been my fantasy to see history defied for a new Axis leading from Greece to Estonia but that's just my impossible schizo dreams
There's still a dirt road (the dashed line mid way between the two) but it's likely mud by now
yeah that's what I mean, it's gonna just be pure infantry running like it's a zombie apocalypse for them, no vehicle capabilities. These guys are going to go through absolute hell one way or another, and the kind that's worse than being in your first real firefight or anything. They're going to suffer :
Moving ordinance across a mud road is a bad time. It doesn't even look out of range for inaccurate shelling. The thing is probably all craters at this point.
Thank you for your service because African conflicts are always extra fucked up.
Whats the range on artillery?
They were with regular howitzer range for weeks. Now they are within company level Mortar range. It’s too late to escape in groups now they must make it in small groups of 2-3 hiding in the woods trying to infiltrate through Russian lines.
There only hope is a counter attack into the cauldron to get men out. They can not keep it.
23 miles 155mm
> I'm hinting at a neutral and objective stance for the reason that it'd actually validate whatever points you make, instead of the usual /uhg/ vs /chug/ assblasted troonfest
> I'm hinting at a neutral and objective stance
> when the board is non-stop spammed by bots, trannies, Redditors, glownigers, and NAFO
lol
> I'm hinting at a neutral and objective stance
> when the board is non-stop spammed by bots, trannies, Redditors, glownigers, and NAFO
Yes magyar, the point of a genuine thread is to ignore all that bullshit, I tried to discuss how bad bakhmut is for ukros on /k/ and I got reddited (seething replies accusing me of being ruskie spy) by assblasted nafo homosexuals
This war mindbroke this entire fucking website
It is good to see that there are still normal people around here. Really can't get any good information on this topic because everyone goes full retard within seconds
It's unironically a world war. It's going to mind broke the planet the more it expands
>and I got reddited
Most likely because you were discussing bakhmut on /k/
Okay, serious answer, then. An encirclement only works if the enemy can't get out of it. Well, no shit. The point is that those who do the encirclement have to be physically present to prevent escape. They must set up a double defensive line, on facing towards the pocket to prevent breakouts and escapes in small groups (important!), one facing outward to prevent an outside attack from breaking the encirclement. "Operational encirclement" is the biggest horseshit that has came out of this war yet. So Wagner still has plenty to do before a proper encirclement is formed.
Looking at the bigger picture however, the encirclement itself is more of a psychological victory. Forcing Ukraine into a meatgrinder killed much more of their soldiers and destroyed much more equipment than they are going to lose once the defense actually collapses, with or without an encirclement. For this reason, I think the Ukrainian/Western decision makers are more than willing to buy time and stall the Russians for as long as possible, even if it means that what's left of Bakhmut's defenses will be destroyed completely, not just partially.
>They must set up a double defensive line, on facing towards the pocket to prevent breakouts and escapes in small groups (important!), one facing outward to prevent an outside attack from breaking the encirclement.
Uhh.... what do you think the whole rest of the Russian front-line is? This isn't a cordon and search in a hostile environment. To relieve Bakhmut the ukrainians would have to break through somewhere else or push back the russians in Bakhmut. Clearly that isn't happening. This bakhmut cauldron looks like the russians actually are doing things right for once. They've left a small avenue of hope. Ukrainian defeat here is virtually guaranteed. If they stay and fight they lose, and if they retreat they lose even worse probably (imagine 30k soldiers retreating down a small dirt road as they're shot at from all directions by Russians, it would be another road of death).
They are using the classic strategy of giving a retreat lane in hopes they will cause a rout. No retreat options will cause the troops to fight to the death and force the Russians to dig them out.
But leaving the hope of escape may cause a rout. It’s better to remain at the current positions and blast anything coming in.
A even better strategy would be to put out rumors of escape routes.
they are purposely leaving 2 roads for them to retreat, unlike your NAFO propaganda makes you believe, Russians are waging war in the most humane way possible, not like hohols that are doing all sorts of dirty trickery.
/k/opers are tourists
>I tried to discuss how bad bakhmut is for ukros on /k/ and I got reddited (seething replies accusing me of being ruskie spy)
most of /k/ nowadays is actual reddit, that's why. Guntubers made sure that it got infected by plebbitards
2 more weeks
Why zigers so dumb?
You need 2 circles around Bakmut to around it
Just SCALE THE MAP
>R A R E
Haha, not at all. There are loads of these fucking flags on /misc/ in the past year. I wonder why.
english please
if you try again i will give your wife 100 million USD so she can cross the Romanian border in a suitcase full of it while your people suffer, or maybe not since you disproportionately recruit from your ethnic Hungarian citizens of Ukraine
I know this is a troll, but the situation is more like picrel.
Janusz, uncessary losses are the point for Zhelenski.
They probably have withdrawn most of their troops considering that it is the ukies that blew up the bridge.
Yep. By now anyone who's paying attention has realized the true purpose of this war is to depopulate Ukraine.
IT'S OVER
Sorry American taxpayers, no refunds.
Why do you make such a retarded thread if you literally know nothing about tactics and can't think for yourself. Why are you even on /misc/.
>Why are you even on /misc/.
>can't think for yourself
Answered your own question, anon.
I think the problem is this didn't need a thread to be discussed. Would be awesome to see this in one of those CHUG/UGH things instead of homosexuals jacking eachother off with anime pictures. Anyways, he's not wrong. Everyone inside is doomed, and someone could say "but they made peace with that and it is their mission to fight to the end?".. well, that's what they've been made to feel lol, that's about it.
You have to understand people are shocked because most people still think there's like 60,000 soldiers in there, half of them left but it's still a ridiculous number to literally sacrifice in hopes the ratio flips in the effort to siege it. It's super retarded, the only way it wouldn't be retarded if Ukraine was as big as RU or USA and even then it's a suicidal, sacrificial blunder that could have been handled several different ways.
>reddit space
personally I dont count 1 space as reddit spacing,
the problem
is when
those homosexuals
write like this.
my bad about the reddit space
polite sage
Guys are you retarded? There are literally so many military aged men that are refugees in Europe you Americans don't know shit.
Yeah, arabs
ukraine just needs to give up and hand over the country to russia, ukrainian soldiers would stop dying instantly. so fucking simple
1) Independence for sliver of land on Russian border that is LPR/DPR where 90%+ have voted multiple times to not be Ukraine
2) Land west of LPR/DPR to Dnieper river a DMZ, no Russian, Ukrainian, LPR/DPR troops
3) No NATO for Ukraine ever
Violation of these conditions cause of war
This is all they would have to do and war would be over
They could keep their country, the Russians don't want it, Its why they gave them independence in 1992. Russia just isn't willing to let NATO have it as a forward operating base for regime change war in Russia as latest victim of "endless war" criminals in Washington, District of Criminals.
Looks good to me
Fact check
>Every Ukrainian loss is necessary!
Prolong the war and kill more Kikekrainians and you better support Zoglinsky!
What the fuck? I can't believe this, Ukrainesisters. For MONTHS I've been saying that the orcs wouldn't take this town. Even in the past few weeks, I've been wholly confident that the spirit and might of the Ukrainian people (Slava Ukraini) could withstand the barbarian assault. What am I supposed to do now? I'm so lost, I'm having a panic attack. I think I"m going to take a break from the internet for a while, I just can't. Do any of my NAFO fellas have some words of encouragement for me?
Buy gold
Do not feed the concern troll
It's not concern trolling, it's mockery :^)
>polish concerntrolling
Now why do you give off such shill vibes?
Russians: Soon we will have you surrounded ukies!
Ukies: Good news everyone, soon we will be able to shoot in every direction!
The US marines pretending to be ukies: >:3
"retreat" doesn't have meaning in a conflict of this nature unless it turns into a rout and the retreating units are pulverized
it's far easier to take territory than it is to hold it. this has been true basically forever, and it's an order of magnitude more true than it was when we were doing this with spears
russia's fucked because they're trying to hold
ukraine isn't fucked because they're trying to kill and russia just doesn't have the resources to blitz them out of existence
>armchair man thinks RU attacking a city is defensive in nature and ukraine isnt holding but attacking because he likes them so theyre always doing what hes saying haha xd
Secondly defenders always have an advantage muttstain, that's why in almost every successful siege in history the attackers outnumber the defenders by at least 2 times. Actual video game /k/ retard babbling shit because "he knows". you can be a bleeding heart as much as you want, just don't disservice your own fuckin "side" because "I'm me so everything goes the way I think in this Earth and I know because I am me!"
> just don't disservice your own fuckin "side"
I would support Ukraine if it weren't for the fact that NAFO are the most aggressive liars ever sometimes. The propaganda outlet backfired constantly because it insults everyone's intelligence. It's information warfare that makes you sympathetic to others because of how terribly see through it is, almost like it's design to piss people off on purpose
This "support" shit is retarded for a lot of reasons too. Nobody's "support" individually will mean anything ever, and then people take it so literally. I guess I'm force to be supporting Russia for my stance? If I could have a dream world where they jump off a trampoline in Donetsk, land in Kiev and beat the shit out of the bastards that sold the country from the Ukrainian people and usurped their wealth and permanently stained their demographics worse than Holodomor, promptly turned around and walked all the way back to Moscow, that would be awesome.
No, I do not support Ukrainians dying, even though they act very headstrong like Poles and that quality pisses me off. I do however hope Russia sends the Ukrainian government into the stratosphere. In the end what I want will not change anything so being hyper-sniveling internet propagandists that act like everyone is literally either putin, trump or biden just reminds me that half of my population has to be slain when the economic collapse comes.
>if they're to avoid unnecessayr losses
Keked
They can’t leave BAKHMVTT, Hunter’s adrenochrome farms are in the subterranean
There should be no retreat like mariupol.
The remnant hohol army would act like a rear guard to earn time for the main body to dig in west of bakhmut. If they flee uncoordinated the whole front will collapse. So encirclement is inevitable
Unlike Mariupol i don't think there are any areas nearly as defensive as the steel plant there
They are digged in fortified trenches. This lost is inevitable.
Any truth to the rumors that soldiers in Bakhmut are going to surrender en masse?
Idk I refuse to trust rumours
Especially considering the fact Ukros generally don't like the idea of giving up to the Russians. I've watched a lot of interviews with their soldiers
Come fucking on. No way this is going to last much longer without developing into a cauldron. Retreat is obligatory for the Bolschewiken if they're to avoid unnecessayr losses. Any ex-military anons willing to confirm? I'm hinting at a neutral and objective stance for the reason that it'd actually validate whatever points you make, instead of the usual /ww2g/ vs /cww2g/ assblasted Judenfest
This is hilarious
Vatnik trolls were actually saying this shit during the opening weeks of the war. Does anyone remember the map saying that the entire Ukrainian army had been encircled and destroyed in Donbass? lol
>city getting encircled before your eyes
>retarded state propaganda nobody important cares about
>too polarized to differentiate
Looks like no matter how much this one post of yours was agreeable, that talking like that just makes you come across as retarded as the people you're pointing out. I know I know, I'm a zigger vatnik now even though I'm explaining a neutral observation and then you'll double down and be extreme and make any fence sitters do the shit that you're talking about in this post I'm replying to, rinse and repeat.
>encircled
I remember Ukraine requesting green corridors and then resupplying troops
Come fucking on. No way this is going to last much longer without developing into a cauldron. Retreat is obligatory for the Ukrainians if they're to avoid unnecessayr losses. Any ex-military anons willing to confirm? I'm hinting at a neutral and objective stance for the reason that it'd actually validate whatever points you make, instead of the usual /uhg/ vs /chug/ assblasted troonfest
cope
Not one step back. Marsch, marsch pridiot!
You need to zoom out. Russia is trying to encircle more than buckmutt
I SAID PRIDIOT GOYIM!!!!
Ex zoggie infantryman
We were literally taught that Ivan is gonna have better artillery and most likely you’ll have seven minutes to escape like 1k meters or something it was a while ago
bump
They should have left yesterday. For Ukraine's sake I hope the maps update 2 days late because the situation looks so bad they can't even retreat anymore.
Bakhmut became an obsession for them.
>Retreat is obligatory for the Ukrainians if they're to avoid unnecessayr losses
Those losses are #supernecessary
>you have to leave Bakhmut, we have you s-sourrounded ... just look at the cauldron! ... can you leave? p-please?
do you vatnik mongrels have ANY dignity at all? somewhere deep down?
Zelensky already blew the bridge.
To the last Ukrainian.
kek this is a repeat of history
> Russians will struggle like hell to achieve a victory
> they will burn all their energy
> in two months Ukraine will make an offensive and get twice as much terrain back
now tell me this isn't going to happen
> inb4 Russia is fighting against NATO/space forces
> or Russia is fighting against women, troons and kids or grandpas (implying they are fucking struggling against that)
Ukraine isn't industrialized Nazi Germany, and NATO is full of pussies and retards. Honestly you were very likely to have gotten what you wanted 60 years ago, but even then in the Red Scare era everyone would be quite iffy about supporting Ukraine... Well maybe that was only because everyone was threatening nukes and shit but yeah.
The Soviet Union collapsing was terrible for the US.
There is no option for a retreat without a counterattack, both sides of the pocket are in range of artillery and tank shells which will completely destroy any forces trying to escape.
It's too late for retreat. Both lines are under precise enemy artillery. Anything that is worth to blow up is gone.
They already blowed up the bridges that separate the center of Bakhmut and apparently forgot to mention it to the mechanized battalion that got stuck in the other side of the river.
There is also talks about possible revolts since there is not going to be a retreat and the drafted people where send there to die.
It is a cauldron. Both roads are under barrage range. Why this happened? Cause ukies have to fight for every inch of their homeland, they cant just retreat. We on the other hand dont care. We are ok with losing land so we dont sustain casualties
On our news today it claims that Prigozhin has offered a retreat corridor for Ukrainian troops out of Bakhmut.
This is major cuckholdery if it's allowed to happen.
Ukrainians should be offered to surrender and they will live. If they try to retreat then bomb the bastards.
>If they try to retreat then bomb the bastards
Militarily, yes. This is more politics than war, though. Putin was going light on infrastructure until the bridge incident. There are risks to Russia from making Ukraine too weak, and there are opportunities in a ukranian population that blame zelensky and NATO for getting them in a war they couldn't win.
Can't wait till the Russians seize Odessa and link up permanently with Transnistria.
Russia is taking bakhmut to show the chinese that it can win, so that the chinese will help supply russia with weapons.
>retreat
sorry bro, there are still Ukrainians alive. They gotta hold out longer, ideally until every last one is dead
t. Z-elensky
They will probably just leave a rearguard there to die and be captured since the counterattacks have been very bloody affairs recently