Why would God give proof of his existence? If there was proof that God was real, people would obey God out of fear.

Why would God give proof of his existence?

If there was proof that God was real, people would obey God out of fear. There would be no free will to speak of.

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Continue, I feel like there's more to your premise. Go on, anon. Please expound your idea.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I could do a better job explicating this, I've thought a lot about it but I'm drunk now and I am really simplifying things.

      What is the purpose of this reality? I think it has something to do with the selection and "leveling up" of souls. People who act in accordance with the Good are elevated to the next "level". Evil people who oppose the Good either have their souls wiped out or get condemned to eternal suffering.

      If God appeared out of the sky, this would fuck the whole process up. Evil people would act in accordance with the Good just out of fear, instead of out of their own nature.

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >If there was proof that God was real, people would obey God out of fear
    But the Bible calls for people to have fear of God, and Christians preach so that non-believers avoid hell.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A fear of God is a rough translation to "respect." Not actual fear where you HATE the object.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >A fear of God is a rough translation to "respect."
        that's somewhat true, but it literally translates as the word for fear, specifically it's a kind of fear that implies respect and awe. In other words, the fear and respect go hand-in-hand. I don't see how fear neccisarily implies hate.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        [log in to view media]

        Probably bullshit but I believe it

  3. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >apologetic talking point #557

  4. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    Free Will gives us the CHOICEto obey and follow God. If we all were forced to follow him our love for him would be meaningless. Therefore our love for him given the fact that we have a CHOICE to follow him fills him more 🙂

    {God’s Love}

  5. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What would it take for you to be 100% certain that God exists? If he popped out of the sky to say "Hey, here I am, I'm God", you'd die of a heart attack. If he put a verse in the Bible or Quran saying, "There are eight heavens orbiting the Sun", atheists would say "a stopped clock is right twice a day", plus it may not have even turned out correct because the number of planets depends on humans' definition of a planet, and there might be more planets far out in the solar system that we haven't found yet, so the eight planets number is not set in stone. so God proving his existence by specifying the number of planets in the Bible/Quran wouldn't work either.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Is this god thing omniscient?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >If he popped out of the sky to say "Hey, here I am, I'm God", you'd die of a heart attack.
      No we wouldn't, you pussy. That's like staying we'd die because the sun showed itself. Besides according to your bible he already did that and people didn't die.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >so God proving his existence by specifying the number of planets in the Bible/Quran wouldn't work either.
      What about god leaving a message on the dark side of the moon?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If the Bible contained the mass of an electron up to ten decimal places, then I'd become a devout Christian.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        le science

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >There are eight heavens orbiting the Sun", atheists would say "a stopped clock is right twice a day",
      Let’s be clear, this didn’t happen, it honestly would lend more credence to the Bible if it was more correct.

      If they got the timescale right even in a proportional sense or even got the order of creation right, made it clear that the earth is a sphere and the sun is extremely far away.. if they made it clear humans arose from a break off population from other animals and people-like animals,

      All of these things would make it harder for me to dismiss Christianity. I mean really if they got the creation story correct even in a simplified but still correct sense I might still be a Christian.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      God is omnipotent, all it would take would be for him to show up and make my instincts tell me he's real, then proceed to do the same to every human on earth.

  6. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    How? People would still be choosing their own religious positions; their choices would just be better-informed.

  7. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Plus, we all know that even if you were 100% sure God existed, you'd probably only be in a state of awe for a couple months, then once the news grows old you'd just go back to sinning anyway.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Do Christians really

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        the israelites decided to worship a golden bull even though they were being guided by a pillar of fire.

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The wrong part about the golden bvll was that it was an idol of "the one that brought you outside of Egypt", thus breaking the second commandment, not that it represented someone else

  8. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1 Kings 18:16-45
    >Then Elijah said to them, “I am the only one of the Lord’s prophets left, but Baal has four hundred and fifty prophets. 23 Get two bulls for us. Let Baal’s prophets choose one for themselves, and let them cut it into pieces and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. I will prepare the other bull and put it on the wood but not set fire to it. 24 Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord. The god who answers by fire—he is God
    >He arranged the wood, cut the bull into pieces and laid it on the wood. Then he said to them, “Fill four large jars with water and pour it on the offering and on the wood.”
    > Then the fire of the Lord fell and burned up the sacrifice, the wood, the stones and the soil, and also licked up the water in the trench.
    >When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The Lord—he is God! The Lord—he is God!”
    > Then Elijah commanded them, “Seize the prophets of Baal. Don’t let anyone get away!” They seized them, and Elijah had them brought down to the Kishon Valley and slaughtered there.

  9. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If God is real, then why does Vaush keep making videos?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Vaush is a demon who works for Satan. There's no other explanation.

  10. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Vaush is a pedophile

  11. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No, people don't obey God out of fear, you moron. People obey his laws because it gives them purpose, which is not a bad thing, as it proves objective morality. People who argue for the contrary, since God is present in all people, should go out and rape a random a stranger or kill someone's dog and see what happens. The glory of God then will be shown by the actions of the people.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >People who argue for the contrary, since God is present in all people, should go out and rape a random a stranger or kill someone's dog
      Christians are closeted psychopaths with no internal moral compass exhibit #2765

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        explain then why atheists trust science so much even if it does other people harm

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          i.e., take this vaccine or go to jail, i.e., renounce your faith or get executed, i.e., eat lab grown meat and lose body mass because if you don't, you're harming animals and that makes my feelbads hurt.

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I don’t believe in any of that and I’m an atheist
            Is this seriously just political larping for you?
            Why is it that so many “is god real” conversations turn into “well you’re all these liberal memes I don’t like”

            Get the fuck over yourself

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              You sound angry. Wrath is a sin. Have you tried praying to the Lord to absolve yourself of sin?

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              >Why is it that so many “is god real” conversations
              They're just larping as Christian for a thin veneer of pseudo-tradition and feigned moral indignation.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I really wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt but I’m pretty convinced it’s more politics than theology

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >explain why this group of people trusts something that works so well
          And before you start crying about [current events], I'm talking about technology

          • 4 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            It works as much as humanity gives it power, the more faith people have in technology the more it controls the lives of the people who use it. Henceforth, since technology is a product of mankind and not the divine, there is no soul or consciousness inside it, so the machine will only work based on utilitarian ends, and there will be always a portion of people who are alienated by it for the pleasure of the majority

            • 4 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Do you think airplanes would be incapable of flight if people didn't have faith in them?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                I was more or less talking about the intellectual zeitgeist of technology itself. Would you trust a plane (whilst being on one) to pilot itself without any human input or prior instruction?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No
                why are you asking me this?

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                You asked. I answered.

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                >the intellectual zeitgeist of technology itself.
                Saying that atheists trusts this thing is a much more contentious claim

              • 4 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                No and atheists don’t do that. Lmao pack it up man what the hell is this?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >No, people don't obey God out of fear,
      Then why does hell exist? Why does he threaten ancient Israelites constantly?

  12. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Why would God give proof of his existence?
    To save people from hell.
    >If there was proof that God was real, people would obey God out of fear.
    But that would be a good thing?
    >There would be no free will to speak of.
    Well, if that's the case, why didn't God respect the free will of Moses or Muhammad, or whatever religious prophets you believe in? This is a very silly argument. The fact that I have proof that the president exists does not mean I am not free to obey or disobey the law. People still disobey the law. Likewise, in Christianity and Islam, Satan still disobeyed God even though he had proof of God's existence.

  13. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    Luke 16:25-31 KJV
    > 25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    >27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
    28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    >29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    >31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

  14. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >people would obey God out of fear
    should've of have kept hell a secret if he didn't want that to happen

  15. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellfire_preaching
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinners_in_the_Hands_of_an_Angry_God
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Great_Awakening#Conviction_of_sin
    'Scare em straight' strategy having of course, never been prominent in sermonizing.

  16. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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    did i enter r/atheism by mistake ?

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Your god doesn't exist. Cope.

      • 4 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Euphoric today, aren't we?

        • 4 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >Being this obsessed with the tranners
          In a century, maybe you'll start calling people who disagree with you heretics again.

    • 4 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You're insulting yourself at this point tbh

  17. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    every christian argument for gods pretty much stated without the fear of hell people will do whatever they want so trying to say he won't show himself because muh freewill is just cope, especially since its dubious to call it free will when there are extremely specific rules which if broken lead to shit tier consequences, its like saying you have the free will to walk out of a hostage situation, which ignores the fact the guy holding you hostage will shoot you for leaving

  18. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    So it only counts as free will when people obey god out of fear of his potential existence?

  19. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

  20. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    But there's proof, there's an army of badly disimulated demons doing their best to remove people from belief. Problem being that to deceive others you have to be higher IQ and avoid them to get information from other sources that they can verify.

    In short: XD

    And I say XD to you, and lol even, perhaps lmao, because, and I quote the bible:

    "The world is in the power of Satan and the people on it obey him"

    So why bother with evidence when satan is roaming free and people notice the senpai?

  21. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >There would be no free will to speak of.
    Yes, there would be. There would be just a limiter on what humans can and can't REASONABLY do, which already exist in a micro sense in the world as we know it. Sure, most people would not sin, but they would be free in anything besides that.

    I literally cannot fathom why one would prioritize the neurotypical human being's freedom to sin/be righteous over being free to.. say.. fly or not seek out social connection. Humans are not completely unbound in our actions/thoughts. Why is being bound to be obedient to God suddenly too far?

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