Why was China always richer and more developed then the Europe until the Industrial Revolution?

Why was China always richer and more developed then the Europe until the Industrial Revolution?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You're actually wrong. You see, I hate chinks.

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Population

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Even for their population, they were richer.

      China and India's share of the world's GDP was higher than their share of the world's population. Not by a lot, but still.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The Chinese didn't really pull ahead in population until the modern era. Their numbers in Antiquity and the Middle Ages only seem big because "China" refers to an Area the size of the entire European continent. Like if I counted all of Europe as one big country no shit it would have a gigantic population.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Among the causes of the great divergence is that China's geographical location was so generous and good that the incentive to develop pettered out.

    Europe hit a major low with the black plague and in the process of recovery they faced challenges that put them in a much better position than the Chinese to expand into world spanning empires, particularly poltical and military sophistication.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Europe hit a major low with the black plague
      China was more advanced than Europe for thousands of years until the Industrial Revolution
      >put them in a much better position than the Chinese to expand into world spanning empires, particularly poltical and military sophistication.
      China was the suzerain of every country that bordered it and had the pacific ocean.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Where are their colonies

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          They had vassals like Korea and Japan

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            I the income from those two is negligible compared to what spain was raping form the new world and the Dutch spice trade

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Ming China had a population and land mass comparable to all of Western Europe along with an economy that only spain could feasibly hold a candle to. China never settled and colonized foreign lands because their Muh Middle Kingdom homeland was so fucking big and important. /Thread

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          pretty much everywhere that was outside of modern day henan was colonized by the han and absorbed into china

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Large population, massive access to resources allowing civilization to develop much earlier than most of Europe, etc. Shang dynasty was established in the 1000s BCE while most of Europe besides Greece were still dwelling in huts and worshipping trees.

    The reason Europe caught up so quickly is because of the industrial revolution. Europe doesn't have that much resources, so the richest countries were the ones that had the most trade, like Venice or the Ottoman Empire. When it happened Britain and other European countries that joined the revolution became almost unstoppable, technological innovation increased exponentially, while CHina was still stuck with tech they had for thousands of years. Qing armies barely adopted muskets and rifles and most were still equipped with swords and bows.,

    China didn't have their own industrial revolution because they had no incentive to. They were rich, had massive access to resources, and colonization just seemed like a waste of time. After Zheng He's expeditions China never tried again to explore the seas.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    No israelites.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    They weren't. At times they were, such as periods of the Song and Tang dynasties, but at other times they lagged behind other parts of the world. That whole shithole period between the Han and Tang for instance. Or there were times when they were roughly equal, such as the Han and Roman Empires being more or less equal in all matters. Or the Tang were roughly equal rivals to the Abbassids.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    china was unironically (and correctly) seen as a backwards african-tier shithole until a british sinologist called joseph needham told them and everyone else that china was actually amazing and had a very sophisticated ancient culture

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >Never read Marco polo

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What exactly DID Marco Polo say about china? Got any quotes? Didn’t he visit during the yuan mongol dynasty? I’m too lazy to read it myself

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I mean, he wrote a whole book, it's hard to quote it all in a post. To be short it's a weird mix of truth and fantasy, like he'll talk in-depth about court politics and taxation, then all of a sudden say that Japan fought off the Mongol invasion with Magic Stones (Nioh used that bit to explain it's whole "Sengoku with magic powers" setting)

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Marco Polo visited Hangzhou in the late 13th century. He refers to the city as "beyond dispute the finest and the noblest in the world." .

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      ibn battuta wrote that china was surely the richest country in the world. he visited like every place on the eurasian continent in the 14th century so i would take his word for it

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    By the 1600s Europe was more developed. Better architecture, better mechanical machines, better weapons, better ships, better science.
    Chinese people have to learn of European mathematicians of the 1600s like Descartes or Fermat or Pascal. Europeans don't have to learn of any Chinese mathematician or scientist of that period because there was none who had contributed anything.

    Europe didn't suddenly become more powerful in the 1800s for no reason, Europeans had been developing at greater rates than the rest of the world since their very low period of the early middle ages, but as early as the 1200s Europeans had the tallest buildings on the planet, a century later the first philosophers with new ideas since the ancient Greeks appeared, like the nomalism of Scotus, and then came the Spanish and Portuguese exploration, the printing press, the spread and standarization of the University System, and the advancement of maths beyond what the rest of the world knew, and the advancement of military technology. For the Chinese of the 1500s and 1600s, their most advanced weapons were Portuguese muskets.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Again, even before the 1600's China was not always in "First Place". Rome was just as advanced as the Han, The Abbasid Caliphate was a peer competitor to the Tang, and China itself has waxed and waned through good times and bad. "5000 Years of History!" is just nationalist cope.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    This is what Daniel Defoe wrote about China in his pre-industrial revolution 1719 Robinson Crusoe sequel

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I mean, even the Chinese view the Qing Dynasty as a stagnant shitheap. "Century of Humiliation" and all that (It was really more like 200 years).

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Nobody said anything about the Qing being good THOUGH

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        arguably OP did seeing as the Qing came to power way before the industrial revolution.
        Nonetheless, the early Qing were the largest economy on earth for a time but I’d still say China stopped being truly great in the economic/cultural sense after the Ming died.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Ming were pretty bad too. Almost as bad as Qing. Ming was basically a Han reactionary movement brought on by the trauma of the Mongols.

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            early song was the peak of chinese civilisation

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              CCP's got a good shot of taking the pole position again. Who knows what'll happen.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >daniel defoe
      Literally the biggest China hater in Europe and probably one of the most posted images on LULZ in recent times
      I don't even give a shit about China good bad memes, I just see this constantly.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        It's been posted 7 times since 14 Jul 2021 according to the archive

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Defoe never visited China. How was he so spot on about the country?

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >daniel defoe
        Literally the biggest China hater in Europe and probably one of the most posted images on LULZ in recent times
        I don't even give a shit about China good bad memes, I just see this constantly.

        This is what Daniel Defoe wrote about China in his pre-industrial revolution 1719 Robinson Crusoe sequel

        Literally every major account of China prior to the boxer rebellion is the embodiment of the
        >let me tell you about your country
        meme. Neither Dafoe who hated China nor Voltaire who loved China ever set foot there and went overboard interpreting what they thought it was like. Just complete silliness

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I'd argue that European perceptions of China got worse over time, as the two became competitors rather than friendly trade partners.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I don't really like China, but it's sad to see how arrogant and disgusting the English are, their peasants were no more superstitious than a Chinese one. I think Defoe was pissed at a non-European country exceeding his inbred island.Especially since he never visited China, and no country could hold it, all of Europe had to force unequal treaties on it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >but it's sad to see how arrogant and disgusting the English are
        not all of us anglos are bad. Several of the American founding fathers admired Confucius’s teachings and China’s isolationist stance on the world at that time quite a bit. even though they obviously weren’t politically attached to the British empire anymore, the early US was still by and large a byproduct of Anglo civilization.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Brits are the most influential people in history. They have every right to be arrogant

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          England was irrelevant during his lifespan

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Nah
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_modern_Britain

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophi%C3%A6_Naturalis_Principia_Mathematica

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Ok Chang.

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I love how all chinese threads are made just for propaganda purpose and rape pasta spamming.

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    The Qing aren't to blame
    Chinese were too culturally arrogant to realize the progress of Europeans. They only would have realized that Europeans were progressing a lot and had to be imitated, after being surpassed by Europeans.

    Imagine a scenario in which China invents European scholars to teach math, physics, shipbuilding, weapon design, military strategy in China, it's impossible.

    The same happened to the Arabs. Arabs only realized they had been left behind by Europeans when Napoleon invaded Egypt.

  13. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Tell me about the Manchu period.

  14. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    colonised non sinitics in the south, even today south china is much more prosperous and higher iq than their savage northern brothers

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