Why is excluding people based on their birth sex offensive to transpeople?

I don't get it.

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    what board do you come from

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      OPs pic was posted in another thread here like 10 minutes ago

  2. 2 years ago
    frenzy

    the worst part of being ftm is that most afabs are c**ts like this

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    you don't have to project the fact that you check out all the men's dicks in the changing room, tbqh

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >You don't want rapehons in your bathroom?
      >Why are you obsessed with dicks lol you must want my dick
      People like you are why I'm going to be in a concentration camp 5 years from now

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >this is just like the Holocaust
        Wow.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          What a bizarre misunderstanding.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            okay chud, two more weeks until the clown world will fall

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    why do i get the hugest homosexual vibes from this homosexual?

  5. 2 years ago
    noah

    [...]

    i dont think i have ever seen genitals in a changing room

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      garg with the utterly useless post, again! how does she do it?

      • 2 years ago
        noah

        come on :/

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Didn't even address what they said.
        I agree: I have never seen genitalia in a locker room. I've seen ass but generally people are making a decent effort on their own to not flash everyone that isnt specially looking at people's genitals.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >I have never seen genitalia in a locker room.
          Seeing it isn't the problem. Knowing it is there is the problem.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Transphobes finding knowledge to be a problem? Yes, that makes sense.

  6. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    We should divide bathrooms into AFAB and Everyone

  7. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because birth sex has as much relevance to your current sex as your birth weight does to your current sex; you may as well disbar everybody who was born too small from riding roller coasters for all the sense and safety this makes

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      exactly. /thread

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        So 6'3 hons are allowed?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          personally i dont think so. that's why i wrote this

          i definitely understand where this kind of thing comes from. especially in a theatre department a lot of trans women are very masc, some have male voices and beard shadow and to no fault of their own just dont exactly fit in with other girls. some can also be really needy and annoying. depending on how weird or creepy they are it can make sense to want a private space. i dont think this is transphobic because i know if i encountered this or other people like me we would be allowed in since i pass as cis, am post op, and am technically afab as far as government docs are concerned. there is no easy way of sorting out trans people based on how well they pass or fit in with other girls nowadays, it always comes off as being transphobic towards some other people. but i understand the desire to want a private space with people who are girls and not in the process of transitioning to one.

          there is a balance. obviously excluding people on the basis of their assigned sex at birth is ridiculous and stupid, but there should be a limit to how flexible these spaces are for people. female spaces are for women and girls. if you are in the process of transitioning (still do not pass etc) yes you are a girl in some ways but not in the ways that matter for context like this. and that really sucks and is heartbreaking but its an unfortunate reality we have to accept until we can find ways to make transition work for more people

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >sorry hon but trannies just have to be third class citizens because uhhhh they just do okay?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i didn't say all trans people. but why should non passing trans women be treated as if they are just like every other woman when they are obviously not? you're asking people to go against every fiber of their intuition to play along. excluding all trans people is wrong. excluding some trans people is just baloance

            Why is it ridiculous to exclude people based on their sex? A space that is for AFABs is by definition not for women, girls or females. It's for people who were assigned female at birth.

            i dont think there is anything wrong with excluding based on sex. but you're not arguing to exclude based on sex, you are arguing to exclude based on assigned sex at birth, which for intersex people and transsexuals may not match up with the sex they are currently. that's why its stupid. because we know it is possible for sex to be indeterminant or changed to an acceptable degree, ignoring this would be stupid. i really dont think "females only" is trans exclusive. i have been in female spaces, occupied female only airbnbs, gone to events for females only. female only doesnt discriminate against trans females. i personally dont even think afab is trans exclusionary if you are post op and had birth certificate changed. i really think stuff like this is just an attempt to keep non passing trans women out, which is a reasonable request. like i said before it can be complicated when some are over 6ft tall with beard shadow and low voices. i accept them as women, but we all know there is a difference

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >but why should non passing trans women be treated as if they are just like every other woman when they are obviously not?
            you could divide women by all sorts of demographics, but you only choose to do this for non-passing trans women, it's clear you think non-passers aren't actually women

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            because if a woman is a butch les, or an ultra fem hetero, or is a bit overweight, or is she/they androgynous, or is open minded liberal, or tradwife conservative, or whatever else they are still women who when observed by other people are seen as women and when conversing with each other are clearly women. non passing trans women dont fit that same demographic difference. if you are 6'2 with 5 o clock shadow and a deep voice and size 12 mens shoes and shaq hands, being on hrt and dressing feminine doesnt just erase all of that

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            always be a transvestite not a transsexual

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            so I assume you think passoids shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces then? you realise most cisoids don't think passoids are women right?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            If they're passing they are women as long as people don't know they're not women I've been doing this for longer than most of you been alive and there's no question everybody thinks I'm a woman

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you're saying passoids can only be in these spaces due to them being duplicitious
            you're basically saying your entire acceptance as a woman is predicated on a lie, so doesn't that basically make you the predatory terf stereotype of a trans woman?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm saying what exactly the truth I use women's bathrooms in a civic center where there's 80-year-old women do you think they would like it if they thought I were trans they don't even know what it is probably think it was just a man dressed up in women's clothes so they probably wouldn't even believe you
            it's all based on perception it's not based on anything else

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I've been doing this for longer than most of you been alive
            I promise you haven't
            You just have a bad case of stockholm syndrome
            Your views on gender and presentation are akin to boomer brainrot, open your ears and listen to what the kids are trying to tell you before you become the modern equivalent of someone from our generation's "racist grandma"

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Why would I care what kids think? kids think immature thoughts. I don't really care what they think. I care about what people thought when I went through the process which was that you had a sex change you were female you went out and lived in the world you went mainstream you would stealth you vanished into the woodwork and if you did that you were successful. If you didn't do that you were a failure to freak as simple as that

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Lol omg ok clearly you're too far gone let's get you to bed grandma don't worry those ogrehons that just didn't work hard enough to pass like you did can't get you here I'll make sure to lock the door there's a glass of warm milk on the nightstand but don't spill it on your silk jammies that nice Black boy tommy made for you ok you beautiful delicate flower you

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes you can try to patronize me because that's all you can do but like I said I've been doing this longer than you've been alive and here's the situation. What existed in terms of the zeitgeist of cognitive discourse on gender identity was different in my time.

            To even begin to go through sex change he had to be definitely ultra feminine and sexually attracted to masculine men. You had to want a husband and desire to be a housewife, to be basically a traditional pre feminist era woman.

            They wouldn't even consider you for surgery if you were typically masculine and your adolescents or are attracted to women!

            Today, much of that population that transitioned back at that time when I transition are now adjusting to be in feminine gay men and the population that transitions today are completely different people!

            The reasons for transitioning at the time when I transition were much more concerned with sex role congruency and achieving heterosexuality because homosexuality was considered a mental illness.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >like I said I've been doing this longer than you've been alive
            You literally haven't unless you started in the fricking 70s but thanks for the novel that I totally read and enjoyed you're so right gas the hons

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I wouldn't be post on this silly board if I had anything going on in my life that was wotth thinking about so yeah before you were born kid.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The younger generation is in this thread selling their dreams of what bottom surgery will do for them. This is literally why the suicide rate is so high. The mentality that "this next procedure will make me a woman!" that repeats until you get bottom surgery and are left with the living nightmare that are neo-genitals. This line of thinking is only beneficial in the short term, and completely fricks you later.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            imagine being this disconnected from reality LOL

            the surgery is life changing. its the difference between living as a trans woman with a penis and a female with a vegana. i know many many girls who have gotten it and it was the best decision for them. but stay in your fantasy NSFFW world if you like. doesnt affect me.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Do you know them online? Because I hate to tell you, but they're in the same boat as you. Clinging on to that hope tha bottom surgery will fix everything, and telling everyone else it's the most perfect thing ever to convince themselves as well. But frick me I guess, have fun with your hell hole in a year or two because you refused to work through your dysphoria properly. It's not your fault, society as a whole is shutting down proper care for trans people and sending them straight down a self destructive spiral simply because one route is hard and the other is better in the short term (and is more profitable).

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i'm the anon you replied to not the other one.

            >so I assume you think passoids shouldn't be allowed in women's spaces then?
            when did i ever say that? i literally said the opposite

            >you realise most cisoids don't think passoids are women right?
            this is hon cope lol, its not true. but just to be safe this is why you dont tell anyone you're trans when you reach that point

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            So, pointing out somebody "passes" is quite literally pointing out that they are transgender which in and of itself is a "soft" form of misgendering.
            When I have fully transitioned into a woman I am no longer "transgender" the process is complete and referring to me as "transgender" is a hateful misgendering.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >When I have fully transitioned into a woman I am no longer "transgender" the process is complete and referring to me as "transgender" is a hateful misgendering.
            That is a physical impossibility. If you are convinced otherwise, you are in for some real rough shit later in life when that lie comes crashing down around you.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Not if we diligently and scrupulously police our own and other's language for the betterment of society.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            in a perfect world i would agree. i think transition is a process that can be finished by some people and left behind, and they can just live a normal female life. but you are still technically a transsexual. yes you had a sex change and live as female, but you are a transsexual female. not a cis female. but no one needs to know that, you could live the rest of your life never telling anyone if that's feasible. for most it isnt, so its just a tight kept secret.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You're only technically anything because you believe in your mind you're technically that and want to be technically that otherwise you're not! I'm not because I don't believe in technically anything I believe in how people perceive me in the real world and not abstract ideas

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >i didn't say all trans people
            #notalltranspeople
            omg thanks kween slaaaaay

            I suppose we should bar all the cishons and masc dykes from female spaces too to make the more feminine delicate ladies comfortable??
            You're like one step removed from the deranged terfs that clock ugly cis women and have them thrown out of bathrooms. Straight up pickme lookism. It's really simple, if someone is creepy and predatory, get them the frick out
            Not passing and being creepy aren't the same thing you're just a vain butthole with their head stuck way too far up their own ass

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            What if im a 5"3' clocky twinkhon w a pass voice

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Why is it ridiculous to exclude people based on their sex? A space that is for AFABs is by definition not for women, girls or females. It's for people who were assigned female at birth.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Oh my god literally frick offfff I don't pass at all but I'm more fem than most of my friends it's fricking 2022 no one cares about your cisheteronormative pickme bullshit grow up or move to alabama or something idc just frick off

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            being female is not the same as being feminine.

            always be a transvestite not a transsexual

            what?

            >i didn't say all trans people
            #notalltranspeople
            omg thanks kween slaaaaay

            I suppose we should bar all the cishons and masc dykes from female spaces too to make the more feminine delicate ladies comfortable??
            You're like one step removed from the deranged terfs that clock ugly cis women and have them thrown out of bathrooms. Straight up pickme lookism. It's really simple, if someone is creepy and predatory, get them the frick out
            Not passing and being creepy aren't the same thing you're just a vain butthole with their head stuck way too far up their own ass

            i'm sorry i dont think we should grant access to female only spaces to literally anyone who simply wants to be female. that's a joke.

            >I suppose we should bar all the cishons and masc dykes from female spaces too to make the more feminine delicate ladies comfortable??
            femininity is not the same as being female. if you think a 5'2 dyke and a 6'2 hon with beard shadow are the same you are on a different planet.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's all about perception and about your identities if you go around telling everybody that you're a freak and a trans woman nobody's going to want to be around you if you shut your mouth about it and just live in the real world you're going to be just fine transgender is a stupid idea transsexual is something that should be gone through and then discarded and not used as an identity you should blend into the mainstream blend into the woodwork become a GG

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i completely agree. and that's what i do. i see myself as any other female, i went through transition and completed it. but i guess on some level i still consider myself a transsexual. i dont use that as an identity, but i know im not cis. i changed my sex. i am a transsexual whether i like it or not and so is anyone that gets a sex change. in a perfect world, that wouldnt matter at all

            You're only technically anything because you believe in your mind you're technically that and want to be technically that otherwise you're not! I'm not because I don't believe in technically anything I believe in how people perceive me in the real world and not abstract ideas

            huh that's actually a really nice perspective. i'm going to think about this some more i think you're right

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I think you would have been similar to me if you had gone through the change at the same time which you haven't because that would make you ancient.

            At that time there was hardly anyone that knew about transsexualism so it was really easy to disappear into the woodwork. Nobody had any ideas about it so there were no rules about it the word sis didn't even exist neither transgender that didn't happen till sometime in

            I might not even have gone through the sex change surgery if I were doing this in 2020 because it's a whole different experience. The criteria for making your decision to go through sex changes is very different today than it was when I went through it.
            it's a whole different population that goes through sex change today

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i'm honestly kinda envious of people that lived through that era of transsexualism because it was so much easier. i know life was considerably worse for people who were visibly trans or found out etc but if you were invisible no one had the knowledge they have today to notice or react to it. but at the same time if you were found out you probably got the "oh did you know x is really a man???"

            its nice to be living in an era where trans ppl are protected but it feels kinda irrelevant to me because i just want to be invisible. i'd like to go the rest of my life without thinking about anything trans and just see myself as separate from it altogether, i know a few people who are in that position and they've been a good influence on me but its challenging

            i think "transsexual" people has kinda been replaced by "transgender" people, and i dont really see them as the same. for myself and the other transsexuals i know bottom surgery was a certainty and something we knew very early on. we couldnt imagine living the rest of our lives with a penis. even if all the srs memes were true (they arent) we would still get it because a faulty vegana is 10x better than a penis. transgender people dont seem to have that conviction. they want to look like females but maybe dont need to actually fully be female

            Do you know them online? Because I hate to tell you, but they're in the same boat as you. Clinging on to that hope tha bottom surgery will fix everything, and telling everyone else it's the most perfect thing ever to convince themselves as well. But frick me I guess, have fun with your hell hole in a year or two because you refused to work through your dysphoria properly. It's not your fault, society as a whole is shutting down proper care for trans people and sending them straight down a self destructive spiral simply because one route is hard and the other is better in the short term (and is more profitable).

            no i know them irl and you are insanely deluded. like really believe what you want it doesnt affect me at all but its worth telling you you're wrong. wanting bottom surgery is one of the hallmarks of transsexualism there is absolutely no sense in choosing to keep a male penis no matter the twisted perception of the operation you want to hold. its a miracle procedure for many people and i think you should let people become their most authentic selves without spreading disinfo and schizo rambles

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >have trans friend
            >support them as a woman
            >warn them against bottom surgery
            >cuts all contact
            >2 years later
            >wake up to an unread message
            >"you were right, this was all a terrible mistake"
            >find out they killed themselves right after
            Turns out it's a pretty common story btw.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It sounds like you made the right choice for yourself.
            I don't think I'd make the same choices today because when I trans, unless you really looked obviously masculine strange, you could blend in with women. you'd be covered under animated women unless you looked like an actual male with full potential beard growth you could pass. If your body was reasonably female shaped and you had any kind of authentic breast material you were pretty much safe from being read as male. It was much nicer to look attractive, be small and feminine. Everyone has their own plight in life. Mine was copeing with keeping my past a secret and have a relationships based on a made-up history where I was born a female.

            If I had to do this over today, I think I'd choose other options, which didn't exist to my day. Today transsexuals, or transgendered, whatever you want to call them are too well known and too much on people's mind; there's not the anonymity I would seek while at the same time homosexuality is much more accepted as something other than a perverted lifestyle

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            are you saying if you were born later you'd just be gay?

            i definitely agree that its way too visible nowadays which makes being invisible a lot harder. i kinda lucked out genetically so i am small and female proportioned but even then i find myself concerned that i will be found out or something. i wish all this talk could just go away

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I am and if you want me to get into that I will but it's going to be a little bit depressing because what I have to say about it isn't very positive.

            A necessary qualifier,
            I had surgery back in the era of the gender clinics. Sex change surgery might have improved greatly since that time a lot of girls I knew had surgery in Casablanca.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i am kinda curious now why you feel that way. i mean if you transitioned so long ago and see yourself as a cis female its weird to think you'd be ok living as a gay man. i definitely have considered it and if i couldnt transition thats what i'd do but i dont think i'd be able to live as male and be truly happy with myself.

            and that's interesting, i didnt know people went to casablanca for it that sounds like a risky experience. myself and everyone i know go to suporn clinic in thailand. they have the best method available right now

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That's the problem with you younger people you ask for somebody to give you information and you don't bother to respond to them bye

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            lol relax i had to go do a few house chores and i've been thinking about what you said. but i cant find it now so i guess you deleted it?

            i think that perspective of srs being more about pleasing men than yourself is enlightening. i never really thought about it that way but i can definitely see how that'd be true. makes me feel more privileged to be born later because now enjoying sex and being able to get yourself off are the norm from srs. for me it has always been about myself, i was uncomfortable with my penis for as long as i had it. i felt like even having no genitals at all would be better than living with that, but sex is important in relationships

            your thoughts back to before you transitioned are interesting. kind of reminds me of the lifestyle of Mardi from youtube, she's a much older trans woman who has seen a lot. i was androphilic before transition but wasnt gay. all the men i crushed on were always straight, and so i think that may have been one of the reasons i thought about transition in the first place. despite being born later i didnt know about transition until i was 18 so when i found out i could become female and date straight men it felt too good to be true. the reality is of course much more complicated especially with all the trans discourse.

            i was not immersed in gay culture nor did i want to be. i didnt know a lot of gay people growing up but the ones i did know i was friends with. it just never felt right for me. i wasnt attracted to guys who were gay and the idea of gay sex disgusted me. so even if i have thought about that possibility before i am much much happier not having to resort to that. but i dont think its uncommon for trans women who are "hsts" to have thoughts like that wondering if life could be better if they went down that path. the thing is, most i know who wonder that are very deep in transition. like, so deep they wouldnt be able to become men if they tried. so i brush it off as "grass is always greener"

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      We'll limit it to genitals then to be fair to everyone.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        That doesn't make any sense, for what purpose?

        So 6'3 hons are allowed?

        Why would you disbar 6 foot 3 women from entry?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >That doesn't make any sense, for what purpose?
          What a dumbass.
          The biggest arguments are rape and females seeing male genitalia.
          Remove the dick and nearly all issues will be resolved.

          They should make it so that you have to show your penis to gain access to male spaces.

          >They should make it so that you have to show your penis to gain access to male spaces.
          That won't work as, men don't care. Nor do they identify men only spaces

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Remove the dick and nearly all issues will be resolved.
            Rapists are famously law abiding, good point. Women can have penises and locker rooms as well as bathrooms have private stalls so thats a non issue right there.

            your birth sex is your current sex. gender is the one that is (allegedly) not fixed

            >birth sex is your current sex
            Thats incorrect, ive undergone years of hormone replacement therapy suppressing male sexual characteristics while promoting female sexual characteristics. It would be highly inaccurate to refer to me as male, id love to hear you try to define male in such a way that your point has any merit.

            [...]
            why do mtf trannies NEED to be in the same space as afabs? you do understand women want these restrictions because they feel uncomfortable with you being there when they're at their most vulnerable? if you went to the men's room you would only be making yourself uncomfortable instead of a room full of women. men probably wont mind.

            I just dont want to be around men when im getting changed, thats a reasonable request.

            My personal wishes aside, the point of these authoritarian bathroom mandates is to prevent trans people from existing comfortably in public spaces and produce a chilling effect on trans acceptance. Its up for debate how many of the authoritarians believe the fiction they say since the same propaganda was used against gay and even black people.

            lmao dude, you need only look in the mirror to see how it is in fact relevant

            I looked in the mirror but i found very little indicating my birth sex is half so relevant as my current sex.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >i looked in the mirror but i found very little indicating my birth sex is relevant as my current sex
            ???

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            As long as you perceive this other birth sex you are that birth sex until you no longer perceive that birth sex You Are It!

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >id love to hear you try to define male in such a way that your point has any merit.
            can you give birth?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            can every woman give birth who's a woman?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No like many women i cannot give birth, can you define male?

            Nice try you don't have anything to say in your defense do you. You'll always be your birth sex because you're stuck with it it's in your mind that you can't get it out of your head whatever you were born a man probably you're a man just a man with a dick

            >You'll always be your birth sex
            How so? If i can change my sexual characteristics, and i have extensively, and those characteristics comprise sex; in what way have i not changed my sex?

            dont bother with these idiots you are right and they are wrong and when they dont have an argument they just resort to insults so save yourself the trouble

            I get an emotional high from being correct tbh i can never resist a slow ball

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >can you define male
            ya, i learned in 4th grade biology

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Excellent now lets see you try and apply it.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >can you define male?
            Your mother who gave birth to you is not male.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Excuse me? That's not a definition of what a male is. I told you to define male and you dont seem able to.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Have you ever had a uterus?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You were already informed i like other women was not born with one.

            Are you able to define male or female? Yes or no?

            In your mind yeah!
            you can't do what I can do sorry you just can't do it
            I can take a lie detector test, if they ask me was I born female, I could say yes and it's not going to show any signs of lies because I believe it!
            I've created ability to believe in things that may not be factual, but nevertheless I've trained my mind so I can believe in it
            If the most vicious cop in the world said he'd kill me if I lie and asked me if I were a female since birth I could say yes and not be a bit afraid because it would be more frightening for me to admit that that might be true then to give into his threats my mind is case hardened around the idea that I'm born a female and that's the only way you can really be a female. Believe you're born a female. You can change your sex and do everything else that makes your thinking that you were born a female seem realistic, but if you can't admit to yourself that you believe you were born a female you're not really a female

            Oh i see, in that case may i ask what leads you to think you cannot change your sex even though you can change your sexual characteristics that determine sex?

            So AMAB equals no uterus, got it.
            Glad we cleared that up.

            no because there are AFAB people without a uterus, your proposed system is inconsistent.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            male is you and you know it

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Why is male the worst thing you can call a person?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I do not believe that no, sounds fictional.

            Because you can't change it in your mind you can't control your mind the way I can people call the delusion and that's sort of like a negative connotation consider what it brings me I can look anybody in the face and if they ask me threatenly were you born this sex that it says on this ID I could say yes and take it to the mattress that I believe it and you can't do that because she would chicken out and say well I was born a male I know you people would do that because you don't have the internal mental control to then reality to your own View you call me delusional but I'm actually better off being able to do what I do because I don't have to worry about being outed because how can you out a real female
            Checkmate

            >Because you can't change it in your mind
            Oh? Except i do not think of myself as male.

            >checkmate
            King me.

            lmao troons are fricking insane

            What makes you say that? Because im engaging in open debate?

            >no because there are AFAB people without a uterus, your proposed system is inconsistent.
            k howzabout them ovaries?

            What about them? What specifically is your claim re:ovaries this time?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >What about them? What specifically is your claim re:ovaries this time?
            So a woman is born without an uterus but has ovaries. Do you have ovaries? Or are they missing too. We can do this all night theres a bunch of woman's parts left to enumerate.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >So a woman is born without an uterus but has ovaries.
            Yes this happens sometimes agreed.

            >Do you have ovaries?
            No like many women i do not have ovaries atm.

            >We can do this all night theres a bunch of woman's parts left to enumerate.
            I agree and this is because sex denotes a series of sexual characteristics which are increasingly mutable and were never fully exclusive.

            >Thats incorrect, ive undergone years of hormone replacement therapy suppressing male sexual characteristics while promoting female sexual characteristics. It would be highly inaccurate to refer to me as male, id love to hear you try to define male in such a way that your point has any merit.

            This person identifies as male and uses he/him pronouns. He probably underwent the same treatments you did but uses the men's restroom.

            If you say so! I agree if he identifies as a man he should feel welcome in the men's room but i personally feel as though its a risk for him. And not one id volunteer for myself as regardless of sex my gender is also not male.

            15chan, real women not wanting to be forced to tolerate fake women like yourself doesn't mean that they want to "chop off your hair and breasts, restrict your access to HRT, and/or shoot you up with T".

            No matter how angry you get, no matter how many times you say that you're a woman, you are a male person. It isn't women's job to include you and make you feel like you are anything other than that, especially when this is detrimental to their own dignity and their own safety.

            Real women are not obligated to coddle fake women.

            Regardless of how you personally feel, it remains that women like 15chan should look out for her fellow women.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >implying male feminists doesn't harm women

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            15chan, like all transwomen, is an uninvited guest who is screaming and crying that she has every right to be there while frightening and repulsing real women.

            Transwomen can play gender all they want, and some people will go along with it - I even humor their pronouns as a courtesy. But you can never, ever change your sex, and real women have every right to same sex spaces. 15chan is not looking out for her 'fellow women' as she is not one herself, and is actively forcing herself on them by shrilly insisting that their private spaces belong to her as a fake woman.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >you can never, ever change your sex,
            Huh? How so? If we can change our sexual characteristics, and she has, and those characteristics comprise sex as a category; then in what way can we not change sex?

            >woman
            I still have not seen one chud define woman itt

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Transwoman here: we have to at least agree on what a term means if we are going to use it. Sex and gender are pretty solid concepts. No: we are changing our gender (at least as so far as people see us- gender hasn't changed for *us* when we come out). We cannot change our sex.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Speak for yourself weirdo I changed my sex I had to change a long time ago and there ain't nothing you can do about it and if you saw me on the street you would not think I was anything other than I present myself as being you'd never guess it

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >clueless.png thinks he passes

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Removing your testicles and having a hole cut into you exclusively for sex does not mean you have turned yourself into a female. A neovegana is a hole that leads to nowhere, vs a real vegana which is a complex organ attached to a set of organs designed for reproduction. A neovegana can't even clench. Please, be reasonable.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You don't know what you're talking about because you don't know such a person you're describing even exists!
            I don't either, but you're going to go up to a woman on the street and you're going to try to take her pants off and explore her vegana against her will? you determine whether or not it's a hole or a real vegana? I think you'll get arrested and thrown in prison. If you meet a woman and you got a date and she sounds a little masculine or something you say to her "are you a troony" and she said she's a Christian woman has you arrested for assault you have to deal with it right there! If you tell the cop "well I think she's a man and I think she's got a fake vegana" you're going to get in more and more trouble believe me you're a weirdo on the internet and your views do not mean anything in the real world because you're a weirdo and incel

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >women can be incels
            also you sound like an autistic moron; it's obviously clear who is a woman and who's pretending to be one.
            also i think it's argument falacy for enforcability or something

            Gender literally isn't sex. Sex is a phenotype. Gender is a feeling.

            gender wasn't proven to exist outside your head

            >trans women have biological sex characteristics in line with the female sex but they are not the female sex
            this is why you stay in school kids!

            who are you quoting? he said "express" you moron

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >gender wasn't proven to exist outside your head
            ?That's what I'm saying? Gender is about how you see yourself and how society sees you. Sex is what phenotype you express. Getting surgeries just makes us express better approximations of that phenotype. It doesn't magically turn us into females.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            glad you're still living at the edge of reality, but i don't think that's a healthy cope.
            >implying society sees trannies just as they see themselves

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >implying society sees trannies just as they see themselves
            I mean, almost everyone sees me as a woman and assumes I'm female. I'm the one who has to tell them I'm a dude lol.

            I just don't consider myself to be either a female (because I'm literally not and none of us are) or a woman (because I hate myself + other stuff)

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Define female.
            Define woman.

            Why are you all so unable to do this when you suggest sex is immutable?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Female woman of the same things there are human beings they got breast they got veganas they have usually higher voices they usually lighter than males and Men. They're more feminine

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >Define female.
            A feeling
            >Define woman.
            A phenotype

            nice, so your "gender" is male, right?
            [...]
            great analogy, truly smart and not random and arbitrary
            [...]
            you know what a woman is
            [...]
            so you can't change how you present? or what
            also we don't have gender separated spaces

            >nice, so your "gender" is male, right?
            yes

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            good. do you know who coined the term gender by the way? because i am a schizo rightwinger worried about society falling.
            how do you feel about that?

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Idk, the term has existed for a long time but it's modren incarnation where it's no longer isomorphic to sex in the popular lexicon is pretty recent.

            >Are you worried about society falling apart?
            Yes? But not because of trans shit. All of this is smokescreen identity politics to divide us so that we're at each other's throats instead of introducing billionaires to hoby drones carrying little packs of fertilizer. The reason society is going to shit is because of economic greed and people being pushed into poverty while the rich laugh and watch us bicker.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            same but i believe we are voluntarily selling ourselves to the doom
            that's why i can't relate to this leftist kaczynski-inspired video

            monkeypox is a good example of why i feel this way

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >monkeypox is a good example of why i feel this way
            Eh, fair enough, I'd just note that the current generation of gay zoomers seems less likely to engage in the bathhouse culture than previous ones. Probably because they feel less detached from society and more accepted so they don't say "frick ot, if everyone already sees me as a disgusting degenerate I might as well be one".

            It's hard to disentangle the social and economic pressures from peoples actions. Like, in Canada, Albertians see BC as a bunch of gay libtards who are inconsistent on environmental issues andare actively out to harm the economy and it's... not exactly wrong. Meanwhile BC sees Alberta as a bunch of intolerant rednecks unable to adapt to the times and pushing outdated and harmful policies while voting against their best interests and it's... not exactly wrong.

            Idk. If you talk to someone in person, you almost always find common ground. I'm of the opinion that people are mostly at each other's throats due to manufactured scarcity and the drive to protect and secure ourselves and our ingroups.

            If we actually took stuff back from the entiries robbing us blind and making our lives difficult, I think people probably would be a lot milder to each other (with the probable exception of the religious people who want me dead since it's a logical and consistent product of their moral framework)

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Ur an intolerant redneck and a jerk

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I'm pretty far from being a redneck and I think I'm pretty tolerant. It's just that a lot of people in this thread are categorically wrong.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Now you're a redneck if you came up to me in real life and said anything about me not being a female. My bf woulld knock your face in

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >My bf would knock your face in
            K. Doesn't mean I don't think you're a woman. I do.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't matter to me what you think you're insignificant to me because you don't really exist you're not a three-dimensional creature and neither am I. If I don't have mass how can I have body sexed? You're completely full to think that you can judge an internet person as being one sex or the other.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            if you're not an alien or an artificial text-generator then i am confident you're a man

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm definitely not a man a man has a penis I don't have a penis. I'm also several people more than several 20 or so people

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Everyone hates you!

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Not as much as I hate myself 😛

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I hate you an awful lot I hate your existence

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Why? I don't hate you in the least and I genuinely want trans people to be happy and healthy and fufilled.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            as long as they subscribe to your limited perception of what they are

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I'm just saying the tech isn't here yet for us to acually change sex at a level that goes beyond something somewhat superficial. Hopefully it one day will.

            But, even if I can one day get a female body. Even if you could transfer my consciousness and "soul" (if you believe in such a thing) to that new female brain substrate and I became female in a truly meaningful sense... I still wouldn't be a woman.

            I have all the guy socialization and memories. I'll never have the necessary social context to view myself as a woman. And if you could somehow give me those things and convince me I was a woman, you would change me on such an irrevocable, fundamental level that I'd be dead and in my place there'd be a foid with some of my memories.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >But, even if I can one day get a female body
            so you're a troony. hahahahahaha

            wow this site really is a bunch of hons arguing against themselves huh. just because you dont pass or see yourself as female and are miserable about it doesnt mean everyone else suffers the same fate. the technology is here and has been here for a while you either just missed the cut or had a bad roll of the genetic dice or were too far gone with male socialization. whatever the case, stop projecting onto everyone else and accept that some trans women are female even if you yourself are not

            I don't have to carry around a big bag of contradicted ideas about facts I believe in which contradict my own happiness. I can afford to believe that I'm as female as any other female! You can't do it because of all these facts you got in your head that won't let you believe it's like having a faith in God believing that God hates transsexuals is going to send you to hell. Versus believing in the same God and believing that God expects you to be able to live your life as a female and be happy to succeed at your task God is set out for you. Imagine believing in the later over the form or how much more intent a person could be. All of life comes down to beliefs the highest value comes from God and it's all about beliefs

            ok i'm starting to think you dont even know who you're arguing with? i already said i am stealth, see myself as female and others do too. i studied a lot in college because i was interested in this stuff so i have some pretty good insight into arguments that break apart poor understanding of biology. i never had to struggle knowing who i was. i am female. i will always be female. i live as any other cis woman. those facts in my head dont make me less female. they just make me even more certain of the reality. i truly dont know who you're arguing with i never said anything against you i agree with the things you say

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >the technology is here
            you wish, clueless technophile.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i'm living it. so are many others. just because the malebrained male socialized late transitioning hons on here dont have the tech to change their entire self doesnt mean the tech isnt here. it is 100% possible today for an amab person to transition to female and live a normal life perceived as a cis female. im sorry you didnt get that

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >wow this site really is a bunch of hons arguing against themselves huh. just because you dont pass or see yourself as female and are miserable about it doesnt mean everyone else suffers the same fate. the technology is here and has been here for a while you either just missed the cut or had a bad roll of the genetic dice or were too far gone with male socialization. whatever the case, stop projecting onto everyone else and accept that some trans women are female even if you yourself are not
            Prolly some combo of all of those. I'm a twinkhon on the troon scale. Obviously I'd like to have a better body so that I didn't have dysphoria.

            Whatever. Transwomen are women. Some transwomen express a female phenotype to a fairly good approximation.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            the opposite is true though
            can't ignore your traits like: bones, something on the neck, shoulders, size of your hands, your size, how tall you are, your genitals, and your sexuality, as it is clearly male

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            yeah. some trans women have female phenotype, female brains, female social lives, female anatomy, female biochemistry, female impulses, drives, desires. some trans women are female. some arent

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You might have a good idea about some points but I don't think you really can feel female where you go to your say to yourself there's no way I could ever be a male and believe it you can't do that unless you practice it for years and you haven't been practicing it for years in fact I don't think you know what I'm talking about you don't have that Clarity that emotional Clarity it's an emotional thing you have to feel feeling female you have to give up that male ego and I don't think you've done that because I don't think you know what I'm talking about cuz I don't think you can understand it so saying it's an Essence that you have that I haven't had

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            who's Clarity?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Are you okay? I want to hit you again? If you were to pull yourself out a little bit of your drab mental existence, I'd probably show you how to play a few games

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            mind games? like generating text? predicting sentences? something like being comprehensive as a computer program?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Psychological games where you learn how to manipulate people emotionally make people happy make people sad something more important than making people think of how smart you are over again that is autistic by the way try to prove that your intelligent is very autistic!

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            *you're

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i've been on hrt for almost 9 years now. i saw myself as a female from the beginning which is why i transitioned. i was never a male. maybe something went wrong in my development. maybe i accidentally got the SRY gene or didnt get enough testosterone during brain development or whatever else could have happened, but i was always this way. transition wasnt a decision it was a discovery. identifying something that has existed as long as i've been alive unconsciously. the moment i learned about transition i did it so i could match my body with my mind. and now that it does match i see myself as any other female. and am treated like any other female. i dont even have to think about trans this or that anymore because it never applies to me. so that's a nice opinion and all but that essence you're talking about is called projection. you're projecting something that isnt there into my words probably because it fuels your superiority complex. you have a very unique way of writing its easy to tell what posts are yours and you get a thrill from feeling "not like the other trans girls". i get it i do that sometimes too i even did it in this thread but if you think you're the only one like yourself you are mistaken

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I wish I had your clarity or knowledge or singular focus or willingness to go against society in your formative years or whatever. I truly do. I'm also envious of the conviction towards your identity you seem to have. I think we're all just playing language games.

            What you're talking about, I'd call trutrans or whatever. To me, female is reserved for the biological aspect irrespective of how people in society view you or you view yourself.

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            A lot of this is probably just misdirected self hate and depression beneath of veneer of epistemology and definitions.

            I really really really wish that I was both female and a woman, but I'm neither.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >To me, female is reserved for the biological aspect irrespective of how people in society view you or you view yourself.
            sure, thats a big factor for me too. but you just seem to ignore all the biological aspects of transition. i dont have a female body just because. i have it because i have altered my biology significantly to match my mind. the only female quality i lack is the ability to reproduce, which to me doesnt take away my female status. it just makes me an infertile female. any internal aspects of my biology that are male dont take away my female status either, it just means im a trans female.

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I disagree, but I think the point of disagreement is trivial and pointless. If society views you as a female and you view youraelf as a woman and female then for the vast vast vast majority of situations your agab is irrelevant.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            exactly, its an autistic pursuit. if we could make hearts from donor material to replace hearts and dramatically bring down death due to heart disease, it would be really stupid to have arguments about whether its a Real heart. its a heart, its just different than a native born heart. trans females are female. they're just different than cis females. but like we already acknowledged not all trans women are female

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            too bad that your sussy impostor syndrome won't go away.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            imposter syndrome is a very normal experience for females doing anything new. but im not new at this, so i dont suffer from it

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            holy cope

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Eh sure. I just feel like you're making up another category that I'd argue is mostly contained in "woman" (cis woman, trans woman, for the social aspects). Maybe it's a good idea to have another category for post transation trans women, but I'd kinda argue that the way you're using "trans female" is the same someone else might use "stealth"

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Because you're an idiot and I just hate you I wish you would just develop cancer and get real sick I'm not even a trans person I don't have anything to do with transness I'm on here because I'm psychotic and it's an exercise for me to deal with my multiple personalities

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Oh, well that isn't particularly nice. Hope you have a good life tho

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah all you manage to do is get yourself hated because you can't stop aggravating people because your nature is to be obnoxious and aggravating that's who you are that's essentially what you are is an obnoxious aggravating little person who has to bring everyone down to his level that's who you are

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            :/ I'm not being rude and I'm not denying you or anyone else's womanhood (other than my own). I'm just saying you're all using an incorrect definition of female and/or seem to be mistaking people ignorance and assumptions concerning facts for true facts.

            Previously I was calling people selfish for wanting to carry babies to term in an implanted womb while having unstable and approximate hormone levels and I maintain that it is a selfish desire that is not in the best interests of the child for both cis and trans women.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You're trying to slowly frick me over I could tell but you're not going to be able to do it you know why because I'm really smarter than you you don't realize how smart I am I like 20 different people on this board you'll never know when I'm there. You frick with people and they're going to get bad and stuck with you back I'm telling you it happens every time. You can't play oh I'm trying to be a good guy but I'm just too stupid to understand the emotional side of it can't do that don't work

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            post pics already delusional troony. I'm tired of having to chase you on this board for nothing in return

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm too good looking to do that! I post pictures of myself once in a while and then everybody's got them in a folder I'm so sick of that shit I've posted a few times and passed you and usually people think I'm a cis girl.
            The last time I've seen a picture of myself somebody was saying "even if you look like this you still have to disclose your troony" something the person, who is me, in the photograph never does! I never tell any guy who is interested in me sexually that I'm trans and I never ever had a problem with keeping it to myself

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            not an argument

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            What is not an argument mean to you you think that's a way to be able to make me feel bad that you don't interpret what I'm saying is an argument I don't care if it's an argument we both know it's truth you're a weirdo you don't like yourself and you think by making other people feel bad about themselves it's going to make you feel better about yourself it's only going to make you feel better about yourself because you're really don't like yourself

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            are you a bot? what's 123456789 to the power of 5?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Five times 1 2 3 4 Etc.
            Let me ask you something when you go to bed at night do you go to bed alone every night do you look at your body and see it as being sort of like double sex body like your male in some ways and female in other ways and you really hate it don't you? Yeah I had a friend like that and she ended up killing herself

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            that's funny

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            If I really was hurting you to the point where you were feeling shook up about yourself I'd stop but I don't think you can admit that to me because I think you have too much male ego

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you got me man. i'm not laughing, i'm literally shaking and crying rn

          • 2 years ago
            Facetious

            Oh, I'm sorry if you're really upset but you were a bad girl her boy whatever you prefer? You got mommy mad at you!
            I'll tell you something right now I like to have fun with people and one of my favorite games is to put down foot down and see I don't really know who you are all I know is that if you move one way that's going to tell me to move another way I understand it's so like chess game. so make a move kid!

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            N

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That's pretty passive of you. What do you think you look pretty good? Do you think you look good at all I mean I look really attractive okay in a female way now if you look really cute and you think you want to swap pictures real quick you got the nerve I mean just a little face pic,

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            what the frick are you talking about?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I can tell you're afraid of me.
            I'm really just pixels I don't really exist in one form
            I mean who you talking to right now is not who I'm going to be an hour from not certainly who I'm going to be when I wake up tomorrow morning

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            how is that relevant?
            you're just wasting time behind a screen and a keyboard, and i guess you live in a timezone where it's night, so you're stealing sleep from yourself.
            how scary

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            About 52.8679718603e+40 in these schizo nutz

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >people in this thread are categorically wrong.
            yes. you are. so stop polluting the thread with your shitty opinions and let it die

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >zoomies seem less likely to engage in a bathhouse culture
            maybe, but have hard time being confident that this is true, but maybe that's just nostalgia

            also i think that overpopulation is a real problem that should be solved before it "solves" on it's own

            and i am quite stoic in accepting that some people inherit superior traits or wealth.

            maybe i just think might makes right, i just feel like we can't minimize suffering because people are greedy, and there isn't a way to fix how society treats you if you're not manipulating people. maybe that makes me conservative status qu0 cuck, or maybe it makes me authoritarian, but i feel like i care less about what people think than leftists in the sense that they force people to censor themselves
            that's why i like NSFFW where i can view how people think they are being repressed even if that's not true and just a hitler's propaganda, because i think it's fair

            I'm pretty far from being a redneck and I think I'm pretty tolerant. It's just that a lot of people in this thread are categorically wrong.

            you seem more reasonable than him though

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >Define female.
            A feeling
            >Define woman.
            A phenotype

            [...]
            >nice, so your "gender" is male, right?
            yes

            Just in case you can't tell, that first bit was sarcasm because I already expressed this a whooooole bunch of time here and am getting tired of it

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No i figured lol, the song was just a joke. Dont sweat it, im not even actively arguing with you so just focus on everyone else :]

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            nice, so your "gender" is male, right?

            Transphobes finding knowledge to be a problem? Yes, that makes sense.

            great analogy, truly smart and not random and arbitrary

            Define female.
            Define woman.

            Why are you all so unable to do this when you suggest sex is immutable?

            you know what a woman is

            No one really chooses their gender gender and sex are actually the same thing they used to have sex put down male or female now they have gender put down male or female

            so you can't change how you present? or what
            also we don't have gender separated spaces

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No I don't think you can change how you present you're stuck with being who you are and whatever you are you are you can dislike who you are but that's more of a mental problem embracing a hierarchy like I'm not like myself because I'm not President Biden but other people would say that's crazy not to like myself because I'm not a 79 year old man who doubles around and it's to be president might have a heart attack next year it all depends on what you're comparing

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >you know what a woman is
            Youre god damn right i do. Do you? Define woman

            Female woman of the same things there are human beings they got breast they got veganas they have usually higher voices they usually lighter than males and Men. They're more feminine

            >Female woman of the same things there are human beings
            But can supposed to even to be doing forever big way? It do like this tho

            >they got breast
            Oh? So a prepubescent girl isnt female? Flat women arent women? Women who have their breasts removed for medical reasons arent women?

            >they got veganas
            This would mean that if a woman was in a horrofic accident that seperated her from her lower body, she would no longer be a woman.

            >they have usually higher voices they usually lighter than males and Men.
            Usually makes this correct, good work!

            >They're more feminine
            So butch women arent women? Define feminine.

            >Define female.
            A feeling
            >Define woman.
            A phenotype

            [...]
            >nice, so your "gender" is male, right?
            yes

            >A feeling

            To you as a trans person, a castrated man and a transwoman are completely different, but in reality they are pretty much the same thing. It's just that the castrated man isn't taking female hormones to try and mimic women. A great example is this.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skin_I_Live_In
            In this movie, a doctor kidnaps a young man and forcibly brainwashes him, operates on him, and injects him with hormones to make him resemble a female. According to you trans people, this does not actually make him female because he didn't choose it - but if he actually 'identified as a woman' then it would. This is ridiculous.
            Calling a transwoman female is what makes no sense. Desperately trying to imitate women does not make you a woman, you will always be a male person trying to be female.

            >but in reality they are pretty much the same thing.
            How so? They have completly different sexual characteristics and gender identities. Explain how this is so.

            >skin i live in
            While their sex is forcibly changed away from male against their wishes, that man remains a man in the sense of their gender identity which takes priority in a social context. His sex being something that causes him distress is not usual to trans people as it is what we call "gender dysphoria", he would be well served by a transition back to his initial and prefered sex.

            >Calling a transwoman female is what makes no sense
            >you will always be a male person trying to be female.
            How so? Can you define female? Isnt that what brought you to this point in the argument anyway? Doesnt this mean youre employing circular reasoning?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Those are all the features that together describe a woman women normally are adults women have breasts women have veganas women have tubular legs women have larger hips than their waist women have smaller rib cages it's usually smaller shoulders they're shorter and height than men usually and they're usually got little hands and feet but there are big women that have a bigger feet of some small man and there are men with funny shaped bodies they have hips as wide as women so you can't say absolutely one is always going to fit that description it's just a general category there's no other way you can Define it than the general category. On your driver's license usually a female is going to have a vegana and a male's going to have a penis if you were arrested and thrown in jail and you had female in your driver's license you showed up a jail with a big penis they'd be a little bit upset with you

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Woman is defined as an adult human female, specifically of the sex designed to produce ova. Not a transwoman, and never a transwoman.
            You as a trans person claim that changing your appearance to mimic women makes you female, but then you claim that this cannot be forcibly done to normal males in order to make them female. Your idea of 'female' exists as an invisible thing in your head called a gender identity, and because the character in the movie didn't have that he doesn't count to you.
            None of this makes sense to normal people. You are transgender, you have a mental illness that makes you identify as the opposite sex. It is probably kinder and better for your mental health that people humor you, but they are not obliged to pretend to believe your laughable lies about being a 'real woman.'

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >adult human female
            Bro, and adult human female is an adult human female. A woman is a fuzzy fluctuating meme that's under selection in society rn. You can keep using it as an isomorphism and maybe you'll manage to maintain a holdout for that definition, but I doubt it.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous
          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            K?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. The dictionary definition of woman is an adult human female, not 'someone who feels like a woman'.

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Are you missing the entries where it isn't an isomorphism?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Females have a vegana

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Not a transwoman, and never a transwoman
            Huh? How so? This is arbitrary.

            >You as a trans person claim that changing your appearance makes you female
            Not appearance no, sexual characteristics. Changing your sexual characteristics changes your sex; this has been my very consistent claim.

            >Your idea of 'female' exists as an invisible thing in your head
            Are you ricky from trailer park boys

            >called a gender identity,
            Gender exists as the social abstraction of sex yes, thats just a fact. If not, why not? More specifically, would you deny that Garfield is male? He has no sexual characteristics or flesh and yet we both recognize him as male, yes? In your mind how do you reconcile Garfield being male with social abstractions of sex being impossible?

            >None of this makes sense to normal people.
            Define normal, Chinese? Or just any BRICS member?
            Regardless the rapid increase in trans acceptance over the last 100 years proves that you are incorrect and that it is a matter of social consensus building.

            >you will always be a male person trying to be female.

            This never happens there's never a case where there's a male person trying to be a female person it just doesn't exist if you're playing that fantasy on the Internet it's just a game
            I think men think women are beneath them

            I'm the anon you've been angrily rambling at for most of the thread and am a real woman.
            You are not like me.

            I genuinely cannot parse what youre trying to say

            >Woman is defined as an adult human female
            Let me save you some time. Im going to ask you to define female, youll list sexual characteristics without saying usually, ill amend your statement to usually and ask you to define woman, youll claim that woman are female and ill ask you to define female
            This is circular reasoning. X is true because y is true because of z which is true because of x. After some point surely you must realize this and be ready to concede that any working definition of woman if its going to be socially applied needs to include "usually" at the bare minimum, right? Because otherwise youre just burying your head in the sand.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            stop projecting your circural reasoning to language terms gay.
            you ask what is a woman as if you didn't know, and you never defined it yourself
            because you know you're wrong

            i guess you cannot read. animals do not have sex categorization, only humans have that ability. from the beginning of time we have been developing senses to determine what is male and what is female of ones species. this is still what humans do to this day. the anthropological definition does not negate this fact, it just means that there is a high correlation between what you perceive as female and what produces eggs, and what you perceive as male and what produces sperm. its a very high correlation, which is why the outliers (intersex people and transsexuals) are very rare medical conditions like being born with three arms.

            [...]
            exactly

            [...]
            i'm not. if you disagree that's fine but this is the way the world works you can embrace it or run from it and argue about it on here. one of these options will improve your life, the other will make it worse.

            >implying you can't be wrong

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >implying you can't be wrong
            sure i'm probably wrong about some stuff i dont know everything. but not this

            >i guess you cannot read. animals do not have sex categorization, only humans have that ability.
            did you fail biology?

            i've probably taken double or triple the biology classes you have in your life. and your lack of education is showing that you cant even understand how humans are the only species capable of complex thought, verbal language, and internal dialogue and thats what gives us the ability to formally define what sex is. for every species sex determination is an evolutionary sense that is developed for the purpose of mating. its the same with humans, we just also have the ability to analyze it more

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I don't care about your credentials, you clearly fail to understand basic biology and nothing else you say is of importance because of it

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            oh you dont need credentials to understand this, its a pretty simple concept. ya know normally i'd just shrug it off and be like classic NSFFWner but in this case i'm genuinely worried for you anon. your lack of cognitive ability is startling that you can't understand such a basic idea that has been true for literally 1-2 billion years

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            sex is found in microorganisms and you started off on some shit about humans and definitions. you're delusional and moronic.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            nah i'm actually very educated and successful and live a nice stealth live. whether you agree or disagree it doesnt change that. i suggest you read what i said and really absorb it instead of just dismissing it.

            even in microorganisms they still develop mechanisms for distinguishing between the sexes. this is a perceptual mechanism. just because they are a clump of cells doesnt mean they dont try to figure out if the thing they'll be mating with is capable of carrying their offspring. production of eggs and giving birth is a female activity, but you can be female and lack this ability. this is what the anthropological definition fails to communicate which is why so many room temp iqs who are triggered by the idea of changing sex depend on it to justify their shitty behavior

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You're just another crazy person that's read too much about too much you don't know what you're talking about. You might be still to whatever but you got a whole lot of shit in your mind that I don't have I can live stealth and see myself as a female and you can't because of all the bullshit you got in your head you're just a head full of intellectual nonsense

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            congrats? sorry i took an interest in sociology and medicine when i was in school and learned about the body brain and nervous system.

            i am a female. other people see me as a female. you're not special hon being uneducated doesnt make you more female it just makes you uneducated 🙂

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I don't have to carry around a big bag of contradicted ideas about facts I believe in which contradict my own happiness. I can afford to believe that I'm as female as any other female! You can't do it because of all these facts you got in your head that won't let you believe it's like having a faith in God believing that God hates transsexuals is going to send you to hell. Versus believing in the same God and believing that God expects you to be able to live your life as a female and be happy to succeed at your task God is set out for you. Imagine believing in the later over the form or how much more intent a person could be. All of life comes down to beliefs the highest value comes from God and it's all about beliefs

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you seem to think that passing is the same thing as being the opposite sex. it's not. male dogs hump other dogs all the time, for who knows what reason, maybe they thought that dog passed as a female. but at the end of the day, it's still a male dog humping another male dog, and you are still wrong.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            All your managing to do is get hated there's no other purpose in what you're saying other than you're a masochist and you want to be hated by people there's no other positive gain that you're getting from saying what you're saying other than making people hate you. So what are you about masochistic person that likes to be hated. And you're probably really fricked up about your gender identity and you probably hate yourself and you probably don't pass I mean if you don't pass that's like being a Black person. You don't pass you don't have any life worth living you might as well have a nice day somebody like me passes it doesn't matter what I am because the people in my day-to-day life think I'm what I want them to think. You don't have that option because you're shit

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            take your meds, what the frick?

            this has to be the lowest iq take i've read in a while. i'm not even going to attempt to unpack it because i think we both know your comparison is not even remotely equivalent. your disagreement does not do anything but dig you further into a pit of hatred. it has literally 0 effect on mine or anyones life who is just living as a female. sorry it makes you seethe 🙂

            I accept your concession

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            There is no medicine for me just like there is no special medicine for you you're a fricked up masochistic person who can't resist harming yourself and making people hate you that's your nature

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antipsychotic

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I am just stating facts. I'm not a masochist, that is just your unchecked dysphoria. I don't care if it upsets you, I have already accepted my nature and don't feel such thoughts and I'm not going to censor myself to make you feel better.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I don't expect you do anything like that do you think you're telling me something I know exactly your game your whole game is to make people miserable because you're miserable and you're doing something on the Internet to make you feel better by making other people miserable so how miserable are you really pretty unhappy aren't you like your life really means a lot to you like you really got a lot to live for?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            if you get upset reading my stuff that's on you. I don't feel upset stating facts. the truth sets me free.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You're upset with yourself enough for the both of us. You're the one that really hates yourself not me I admit I'd rather have a few things change differently but I get to live as a female all the time every day and for years and years and you don't get that pleasure not like I do and we both know it it's true I'm the girl and you're not

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            this has to be the lowest iq take i've read in a while. i'm not even going to attempt to unpack it because i think we both know your comparison is not even remotely equivalent. your disagreement does not do anything but dig you further into a pit of hatred. it has literally 0 effect on mine or anyones life who is just living as a female. sorry it makes you seethe 🙂

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >you disagree with me? it's because you hate me, not the other way around
            how smug, i can feel the confidence from you when you use the verb seeing things

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I never defined woman because nobody asked me to and the only supplied definition did not require me to define woman to dismantle it as inconsistent and unfit for social application.

            Are you asking me to define woman? I will, but can you promise to define woman after i do?

            These are just more and more transgender lies. I've said in this thread multiple times that 'male' is defined as the sex designed to inseminate, and 'female' is the sex designed to sexually reproduce. A transwoman is not a woman, she is a male person who wishes that she was a woman. This is not circular reasoning at all.
            A woman isn't 'usually' the sex designed for sexual reproduction via impregnation, that is what she exclusively is. An infertile woman is still a woman because her body is still intended for pregnancy, it just isn't capable of it. A transwoman can only ever be an imitation of women. Even if I were to pretend to you that she was a real woman, we both know that I would just be lying.
            You pretended before that you were happy that I'd replied to you when you demanded to 'define male', but you seem upset now and are spewing insults.

            >male' is defined as the sex designed to inseminate, and 'female' is the sex designed to sexually reproduce
            No actually you didnt, remember when i told you that the "denote" part of your definition was important? This is why. Sex is not a strict binary, its a series of sexual characteristics which are highly mutable and usually occur in certain clusters. The fact that theyre mutable means that sex can be changed because we can change the characteristics that denote sex. The fact they occur in clusters on a spectrum and not on a strict binary means that we have no reason to suggest the presence or absence of a minority of sexual characteristics prevents someone from being male or female. Its a gradient after all.

            >A woman isn't 'usually' the sex designed for sexual reproduction via impregnation, that is what she exclusively is. An infertile woman is still a woman because her body is still intended for pregnancy, it just isn't capable of it
            If she isnt capable of pregnancy, in what way shape or form is her body "intended for pregnancy"? Whose intention? Expressed how? She isnt capable of it. And that besides human have no mechanism for knowing whether a woman is truly fertile or not at a glance, we did not evolve to recognize our own sexes that way. We evolved to use sexual characteristics as things that denote sex.

            >You pretended before that you were happy that I'd replied to you when you demanded to 'define male', but you seem upset now and are spewing insults.
            I was happy you participated for real, i still sort of am. where did i insult you? The ricky bit? I only thought your wording was goofy lol youre fine. Lets just both stick to the facts ok?

            I'm a real woman with a vegana

            Cool!

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Why cool? Sexest pig I'd like to be a male and a gay gay wi dick.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You just sounded proud of it thats all :]

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm mtf not a flip troony

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Oh

            Females have a vegana

            Usually yes but not always

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            These are just more and more transgender lies. I've said in this thread multiple times that 'male' is defined as the sex designed to inseminate, and 'female' is the sex designed to sexually reproduce. A transwoman is not a woman, she is a male person who wishes that she was a woman. This is not circular reasoning at all.
            A woman isn't 'usually' the sex designed for sexual reproduction via impregnation, that is what she exclusively is. An infertile woman is still a woman because her body is still intended for pregnancy, it just isn't capable of it. A transwoman can only ever be an imitation of women. Even if I were to pretend to you that she was a real woman, we both know that I would just be lying.
            You pretended before that you were happy that I'd replied to you when you demanded to 'define male', but you seem upset now and are spewing insults.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm a real woman with a vegana

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >you will always be a male person trying to be female.

            This never happens there's never a case where there's a male person trying to be a female person it just doesn't exist if you're playing that fantasy on the Internet it's just a game
            I think men think women are beneath them

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm the anon you've been angrily rambling at for most of the thread and am a real woman.
            You are not like me.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            We are having two entirely separate conversations. I never once questioned whether you passed or, for that matter, whether you were a woman. I'm saying the "sex" in "sexual reassignment surgery" is and has always been a misnomer and that you and I both changed our gender.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >implying gender isn't sex

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Gender literally isn't sex. Sex is a phenotype. Gender is a feeling.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It isn't. Goodness knows the two terms are used as synonyms in a lot of places but scientifically they are not the same.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            the "science" you're talking about is just a plain opinion about psychology (things inside your mentally ill head)
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You're literally explaining my field of study to me and I gotta tell you you're off base. Know this: being transgender and being anything else is like comparing a rectangle and a square in that a person with dysphoria may also have, for instance, body dysmorphic disorder (very often confused but quite different). But not every person with dysphoria will. There is no inherent connection between dysphoria or psychosis (or schizophrenia). For that matter, a transgender person needn't be presently experiencing dysphoria in order to "be" trans (difference of order and disorder- a transgender person, treated, may have no more mental health disorder at all- doesn't mean a "cure" but that's not really how the brain works in general, anything but black and white).

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Pumping your body full of a wienertail of suppressants and hormones to deliberately induce a hormonal imbalance that superficially makes you look more like a woman does not make you a woman. It's like me putting a few spoonfuls of cows milk into a glass of s*y milk and screaming and crying that the resulting milk blend is "real milk" and people are bigoted for wanting real cow's milk.

            stop gatekeeping! there's no reason women should have their own spaces, you just hate men obviously.
            patriarchy? actually it's homophobia, you useful idiot

            I'm sorry, but your hurt feelings over being the sex provably shown to be more violent, impulsive, aggressive and antisocial does not trump women's wish to not be hurt by you.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I'm sorry, but your hurt feelings over being the sex provably shown to be more violent, impulsive, aggressive and antisocial does not trump women's wish to not be hurt by you.
            based

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It makes you a woman if you perceive that person as a woman if that person dies you and has sex with you and turns out to be something different on this board but you don't know it you're dated a woman you didn't date some freak. You only know what you know and you don't know if you know for sure

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            we know, gay

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            None of that's true and if him it was true it wouldn't apply to somebody that didn't want to be a certain sex you can't make somebody into the sex that you're imagination tells you that they are you have to accept them for what you see you can't go up to a woman on the street who you think might look a little strange to say you're a man and you're going to be a man and I'm going to get your dick out and show you you're a man you can't do that try it sometimes see what happens see how quick the police arrest you for molesting somebody even if you were right you'd still be convicted you can't do that you can't do shit

            I genuinely can't understand what you were trying to say here.

            >definition of male is "of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring."
            Correct and "or denoting" will be important here, similarly important is that the determination of these sexes is done through sexual characteristics.

            >They're still of the sex supposed to produce gametes and sperm.
            "Supposed to" is less accurate than "that usually" but yes

            >They're still of the sex supposed to produce gametes and sperm.
            Yes because of their other sexual characteristics which determine sex.

            >They're still of the sex supposed to be fertilized or inseminated and produce offspring.
            "Supposed to" is odd word choice again but yes mostly correct

            >Infertile genetic errors which do not invalidate the classification, any more than a three-legged dog makes the classification of dogs as 'quadrupedal' to be incorrect
            While it would not affect the definition of dog as it is commonly used it does in fact mean that the statement "every dog has four legs" is wrong and the statement "dogs usually have four legs" is correct
            Similarly intersex and trans people with a variety of sexual characteristics invalidate statements like "women have ovaries" and validate statememts like "women usually have ovaries"

            I am thrilled someone actually tried tho, like genuinely thank you lol

            [...]
            My concerns are reasonable, what is the reasonable concern other women would have with me?

            [...]
            Explain to me how we cannot change our sex by changing our sexual charactetistics.

            >While it would not affect the definition of dog as it is commonly used it does in fact mean that the statement "every dog has four legs" is wrong and the statement "dogs usually have four legs" is correct
            >Similarly intersex and trans people with a variety of sexual characteristics invalidate statements like "women have ovaries" and validate statememts like "women usually have ovaries"
            This is superficially true in that removing a woman's ovaries will not make her not a woman, just like removing a man's testes will not make him not a male.
            But trans people use that logic in a dishonest and harmful way, claiming that a woman with removed or non-functional ovaries is the same thing as a castrated man, and that both are women. This is like claiming that the hypothetical three-legged dog is no longer a dog because you as a human are actively choosing to try and force it into a different category. A castrated man is still and always will be of the sex 'supposed to produce gametes and sperm' even if he removes his capacity to do so - it is what his body is naturally made to do.
            A transwoman cannot become female, she can only imitate females as best as she can.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm a complex professional writer and the way I write is above the conference capacity of most people on here which is about an 8th grade level I enjoy posting these complicated messages because it's difficult for you to understand them basically I think you're all a bunch of weirdos because you're talking about stuff that doesn't even really exist

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You write run-on sentences with no punctuation peppered with babble like "if you perceive that person as a woman if that person dies you and has sex".
            If you actually do have any sort of professional writing position then it was given to you out of pity for being an ESL.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That's my talk-to-text editor it sometimes thinks it's here in the wrong word

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            So you can't even type and are using a program which makes constant errors (including in the very post I'm replying to) yet you brag about your 'professional writing capacity'?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'd rather brag about the fact that I know more about transsexualism in the 1960s then you know about life in the 19 80s

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Also a little education for you ESL doesn't mean stupid it means English as the second language which means the person could be very educated in Pakistan and speak perfect German and perfect French and not as well in English. You're probably an ignorant American that thinks that if you don't know English you're just not literate many such cases of English speaking Americans who cannot speak any other language but English

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            For a trans woman to come a woman they have to transcend the trans woman to become female the first they have to have the body of a female and not a male body with breast a female body they have to be able to make your body female proportions second thing they have to do is have a full sex change the third thing they have to do is they have to change their mind so that they think they were born female this is critical because Under Pressure the third degree you could crack otherwise if you remembered that you weren't if you meet such a person like this and try to say that they're not female sge can have you changed with assault and can have you put in prison

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Thank you for your contribution to the thread, sweetie, but the grown-ups are talking now.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm older than all your kids put together sweetie honey child honey bunny. You don't know anything about what you're talking about because you never met a person that is really transsexual I mean a real transsexual person not a transgendered kid with breasts and a dick I mean somebody that's really had the full sex change

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Again, having a hole installed exclusively for penetrative sex does not and can not make you a real woman, no matter how angry on the internet you get.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            How do you know anybody gets a hole installed in their body how do you know that's even true have you ever seen it no you haven't seen it because it's bullshit it's somebody pulling your leg because you're an incel you're too dumb to even know but nothing like that exists.
            We know insults exist because they don't have sex we know homosexuals exist because they do have sex. What would you rather be an incel or homosexual I'd rather be homosexual.
            If I said to you that I'm a homosexual would you say I'm not a homosexual because I have a hole with me? See what you're saying is really saying because you claim that somebody's got a hole in them that makes them not who they are? If you don't have sex with anybody that's really your business but if I choose to have sex as a homosexual how do you know who I'm having sex with because you don't really know who I am so you don't know if I'm having sex with men or women heavy in a homosexual you just assumed that I'm using the word homosexual not lesbian so I'm having sex with men is there anything I'm saying here that is not correct no everything I'm saying is logical and correct

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >A transwoman cannot become female, she can only imitate females as best as she can.

            A transwoman, I agree. I want to be clear that this is not a revolutionary concept to most of us... despite the one person(?) here in this thread. We know. Still women but just the same we know we aren't female. Many will debate how much that matters or should matter but there is a difference between someone whose sex and gender are congruent (cis) and someone whose sex and gender aren't (trans) and thank God we live in an age when we can do a little more about that than not.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            but you choose your gender? it's just a belief

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No one really chooses their gender gender and sex are actually the same thing they used to have sex put down male or female now they have gender put down male or female

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            stop gatekeeping! there's no reason women should have their own spaces, you just hate men obviously.
            patriarchy? actually it's homophobia, you useful idiot

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Because you can't change it in your mind you can't control your mind the way I can people call the delusion and that's sort of like a negative connotation consider what it brings me I can look anybody in the face and if they ask me threatenly were you born this sex that it says on this ID I could say yes and take it to the mattress that I believe it and you can't do that because she would chicken out and say well I was born a male I know you people would do that because you don't have the internal mental control to then reality to your own View you call me delusional but I'm actually better off being able to do what I do because I don't have to worry about being outed because how can you out a real female
            Checkmate

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            go back to crystal cafe, for your mental safety queen

            Why is male the worst thing you can call a person?

            that seems relative, i think the worst thing is calling someone a thing that he isn't

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >no because there are AFAB people without a uterus, your proposed system is inconsistent.
            k howzabout them ovaries?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >No like many women i cannot give birth
            So you have a nonfunctional uterus or have had your uterus removed?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No like many women i was never born with a uterus. Are you going to try and define female instead of male? Please do so.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            So AMAB equals no uterus, got it.
            Glad we cleared that up.

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            >one neo-uterus please

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >neo-uterus
            >cosmetic only
            >doesn't function
            Why bother?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            copium, coping too hard, unable to cope

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            https://www.thehealthsite.com/diseases-conditions/born-without-a-uterus-can-you-have-periods-get-pregnant-and-other-questions-answered-b0517-492710/
            So if a uterine transplant is possible for women why don't.... oh never mind.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            yeah, that's what i thought smartass

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            So can you receive a uterine transplant? Or is it not possible for some reason?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i guess that your link says that women can receive uterine transplant, don't know about you though

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            yes we will be receiving uterus transplants within our lifetimes https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6492192/

            Lol so many troons would 100% get a uterus and have a baby to validate their womanhood regardless of the risk posed to the child :/ If you're someone who would get any form of this surgery while we are still relying on externally administered hormones, poor levels monitoring and neo veganas, then you're honestly sick imo.

            You'd prefer to give birth to premature, c-section babies exposed to ridiculous hormone fluctuations using experimental procedures to using a surrogate.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            glad you finally noticed chud 🙂

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Are you implying that women never seek pregnancies when it might be risky? Because that is not only incorrect in contemporary history, if it was true the human species would never have propagated itself to begin with because childbirth is naturally very risky.

            >implying male feminists doesn't harm women

            I was not implying that, no.

            Can you define male?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            stop denying

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Start defining.

            >I just dont want to be around men when im getting changed, thats a reasonable request.
            It's also a reasonable request for cis women not to want to be in the same room with you when undressing

            Oh? Why is that again? Remind me.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you don't remember?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Well i certainly dont remember you defining woman.

            yes and I'm sure all those cis women who gave birth via C-section after uterus transplants were also evil.

            [...]
            >Regardless of how you personally feel, it remains that women like 15chan should look out for her fellow women.

            this exactly, transphobes' feelings do not matter here. cis and trans women, and trans folks in general, have to stick together and look out for each other.

            Yeah! Solidarity between women and more broadly everyone hurt by patriarchal norms is important and you can tell by how hard chuds scramble to chip at it.

            Why dont you tell us why you cant be around other amabs first?

            I will but i have no faith youll return to your original point so just an FYI ill be reminding you to do so if you forget

            I prefer not to get undressed in front of men (not AMABs, i never said this and it makes no sense to prioritize birth sex over current sex) because most men are heterosexual and i can reasonably expect heterosexual men to sexualize me. Thats one thing when im clothed, its another when im changing.

            john money was a pedophile and he caused death of his victims
            people like him deserve to burn in hell forever

            He was an evil man like everyone else who tries to push conversion therapy.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I prefer not to get undressed in front of men
            So your needs must be met but not cis womens? If they dont want you to be around them shouldnt you respect that wish similar to how you want people to respect yours?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I don't either but why would I? A few times I use any public facilities there women only

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Why dont you tell us why you cant be around other amabs first?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Start defining.

            [...]
            Oh? Why is that again? Remind me.

            Not him, but the definition of male is "of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring."
            >But whaddabout infertile men
            They're still of the sex supposed to produce gametes and sperm.
            >But whaddabout castrated men
            They're still of the sex supposed to produce gametes and sperm.
            >But whaddabout females who can't be fertilized or inseminated because they're infertile
            They're still of the sex supposed to be fertilized or inseminated and produce offspring.
            >But whaddabout intersex people
            Infertile genetic errors which do not invalidate the classification, any more than a three-legged dog makes the classification of dogs as 'quadrupedal' to be incorrect

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            None of that's true and if him it was true it wouldn't apply to somebody that didn't want to be a certain sex you can't make somebody into the sex that you're imagination tells you that they are you have to accept them for what you see you can't go up to a woman on the street who you think might look a little strange to say you're a man and you're going to be a man and I'm going to get your dick out and show you you're a man you can't do that try it sometimes see what happens see how quick the police arrest you for molesting somebody even if you were right you'd still be convicted you can't do that you can't do shit

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >definition of male is "of or denoting the sex that produces gametes, especially spermatozoa, with which a female may be fertilized or inseminated to produce offspring."
            Correct and "or denoting" will be important here, similarly important is that the determination of these sexes is done through sexual characteristics.

            >They're still of the sex supposed to produce gametes and sperm.
            "Supposed to" is less accurate than "that usually" but yes

            >They're still of the sex supposed to produce gametes and sperm.
            Yes because of their other sexual characteristics which determine sex.

            >They're still of the sex supposed to be fertilized or inseminated and produce offspring.
            "Supposed to" is odd word choice again but yes mostly correct

            >Infertile genetic errors which do not invalidate the classification, any more than a three-legged dog makes the classification of dogs as 'quadrupedal' to be incorrect
            While it would not affect the definition of dog as it is commonly used it does in fact mean that the statement "every dog has four legs" is wrong and the statement "dogs usually have four legs" is correct
            Similarly intersex and trans people with a variety of sexual characteristics invalidate statements like "women have ovaries" and validate statememts like "women usually have ovaries"

            I am thrilled someone actually tried tho, like genuinely thank you lol

            >I prefer not to get undressed in front of men
            So your needs must be met but not cis womens? If they dont want you to be around them shouldnt you respect that wish similar to how you want people to respect yours?

            My concerns are reasonable, what is the reasonable concern other women would have with me?

            Transwoman here: we have to at least agree on what a term means if we are going to use it. Sex and gender are pretty solid concepts. No: we are changing our gender (at least as so far as people see us- gender hasn't changed for *us* when we come out). We cannot change our sex.

            Explain to me how we cannot change our sex by changing our sexual charactetistics.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >thinks he's a woman
            >why won't they let me in women spaces?
            i have no idea

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Define woman

            [...]
            I genuinely can't understand what you were trying to say here.

            [...]
            >While it would not affect the definition of dog as it is commonly used it does in fact mean that the statement "every dog has four legs" is wrong and the statement "dogs usually have four legs" is correct
            >Similarly intersex and trans people with a variety of sexual characteristics invalidate statements like "women have ovaries" and validate statememts like "women usually have ovaries"
            This is superficially true in that removing a woman's ovaries will not make her not a woman, just like removing a man's testes will not make him not a male.
            But trans people use that logic in a dishonest and harmful way, claiming that a woman with removed or non-functional ovaries is the same thing as a castrated man, and that both are women. This is like claiming that the hypothetical three-legged dog is no longer a dog because you as a human are actively choosing to try and force it into a different category. A castrated man is still and always will be of the sex 'supposed to produce gametes and sperm' even if he removes his capacity to do so - it is what his body is naturally made to do.
            A transwoman cannot become female, she can only imitate females as best as she can.

            >But trans people use that logic in a dishonest and harmful way, claiming that a woman with removed or non-functional ovaries is the same thing as a castrated man, and that both are women.
            I dont know of any trans person, myself included, who would suggest that a woman without ovaries is anything other than a woman or that a castrated man is anything other than a man. Similarly calling transwomen men makes no sense.

            >This is like claiming that the hypothetical three-legged dog is no longer a dog because you as a human are actively choosing to try and force it into a different category.
            Huh? What other category would we put a three legged dog in if not dog? Just because not all dogs have four legs that doesnt mean a three legged dog isnt a dog.

            >A castrated man is still and always will be of the sex 'supposed to produce gametes and sperm' even if he removes his capacity to do so
            Oh by castrated man do you mean trans women? Just say trans women, obviously a castrated man is still a man. He identifies as such and has a majority of sexual characteristics that define him as such. However to suggest that a trans woman who has reversed the ratio of those sexual characteristics towards the female cluster on the spectrum is somehow also a man despite the difference in biology and gender identity makes no sense.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            To you as a trans person, a castrated man and a transwoman are completely different, but in reality they are pretty much the same thing. It's just that the castrated man isn't taking female hormones to try and mimic women. A great example is this.
            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Skin_I_Live_In
            In this movie, a doctor kidnaps a young man and forcibly brainwashes him, operates on him, and injects him with hormones to make him resemble a female. According to you trans people, this does not actually make him female because he didn't choose it - but if he actually 'identified as a woman' then it would. This is ridiculous.
            Calling a transwoman female is what makes no sense. Desperately trying to imitate women does not make you a woman, you will always be a male person trying to be female.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The movie is not based on reality and neither are trans women you've never really seen a trans Woman in real life so how do you know they even exist what makes them trans and what makes them women if they're supposedly born boys are they dressed in dresses do they wear women's shoes Mark Bolling or women shoes that didn't make him a woman

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >The movie is not based on reality and neither are trans women
            This I can agree on.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You've never really met a trans woman why do you know they even exist? Have you ever seen a trans woman that says trans woman on them I mean in person not on the internet not pictures of high school girls pretending their trans women I've seen them too.

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Yes lol. Many of the people I see on a daily basis go around wearing trans pins.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            We're in a transpin doesn't do anything except tell people that you want to be something different. But anytime you see a female walking down the street and you try to take her clothes off you're going to get arrested for it you're not going to find this new vegana or a penis down there you're going to get to trouble with the police

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            It's frequently very easy to tell someone is trans. It's sometimes hard. Regardless, that has no bearing on if they are female. Trans women aren't female and trans men aren't male.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            U never seen ine with srs which makes them change sex

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I've seen plenty of people post srs. These people generally identify as women. It doesn't make them female

            They're female if everyone perceives them as female

            >They're female if everyone perceives them as female
            No, that just makes those people mistaken. Putting a ps5 into an xbox and tricking people doesn't make it into an xbox. Ignorance of a fact and acting on informed hunches doesn't change the underlying physical reality.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The ones you seen might not be female but the ones you've never seen that haven't had your eyes on them are female

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Schrodinger's troon.

            No. ignoranance and making assumptions about a facet of reality doesn't change the underlying reality.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes it does make it a physical reality cuz what people perceive is what reality is reality is perception

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            yes this anon has the healthiest mindset on this board fr

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Putting a ps5 into an xbox and tricking people doesn't make it into an xbox
            horrible comparison. its more like taking ps5 hardware, putting xbox OS on it, and then putting it into an xbox case. in that case yes, it would be an xbox lol

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            And yet it still won't hit 12 tflops and games won't be optimized for it.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            its still an xbox. it may not be the same as an xbox with xbox hardware. but its still an xbox. just like trans females are female, but they are not the same as cis females

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Well it's not a real xbox anymore than my raspberry pi is a real nes/snes/ps1/n64/genesis

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >hardware that runs xbox OS in an xbox case isnt an xbox
            ??? bruh you are severely autistic

            if you had a rasberry pi with n64 software installed on it for use in an n64 case with n64 controllers to play n64 games its a damn n64 stop being stupid. saying your retro console is those systems is not a proper comparison between cis and trans females

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I think it's a pretty good one.
            >cis and trans females
            cis women and tran women. Females and those expressing an approximation of a female phenotype.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >cis women and tran women

            This is what lives inside your mind and will never get out when I went through SRS there wasn't such a thing as cis women term didn't exist and also transgender didn't exist. This will always be a bridge between you and women who are superior to you. You always be an inferior person because of your awareness of your nature which is inferior

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >You always be an inferior person because of your awareness of your nature which is inferior
            Yep, but other trans people aren't inferior. I'm saying this with 100% sincerity. I really wish all trans women the best, happiest lives they can have.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            the good comparison is ps5 hardware with xbox OS, xbox case, xbox controller. that's an xbox. it may run a bit different internally, but its an xbox. that's pretty much a 1:1 comparison with trans and cis females

            also reread what i said here

            >But, even if I can one day get a female body
            so you're a troony. hahahahahaha

            wow this site really is a bunch of hons arguing against themselves huh. just because you dont pass or see yourself as female and are miserable about it doesnt mean everyone else suffers the same fate. the technology is here and has been here for a while you either just missed the cut or had a bad roll of the genetic dice or were too far gone with male socialization. whatever the case, stop projecting onto everyone else and accept that some trans women are female even if you yourself are not

            [...]
            ok i'm starting to think you dont even know who you're arguing with? i already said i am stealth, see myself as female and others do too. i studied a lot in college because i was interested in this stuff so i have some pretty good insight into arguments that break apart poor understanding of biology. i never had to struggle knowing who i was. i am female. i will always be female. i live as any other cis woman. those facts in my head dont make me less female. they just make me even more certain of the reality. i truly dont know who you're arguing with i never said anything against you i agree with the things you say

            just because you dont see yourself as a female (which you clearly arent) doesnt mean there are no trans females

            >you disagree with me? it's because you hate me, not the other way around
            how smug, i can feel the confidence from you when you use the verb seeing things

            oh it wasnt about the disagreement. your argument was poorly constructed, involving a poor understanding of my position and an even poorer comparison that had very little resemblance to the topic of conversation. it is your intention and actions that shows hate. what other reason to waste time on this site of all places just to hurt people. either you get enjoyment from doing it, or you get relief from pain by doing it. whatever the case, i hope you feel better soon

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >also reread what i said here

            >But, even if I can one day get a female body


            so you're a troony. hahahahahaha

            wow this site really is a bunch of hons arguing against themselves huh. just because you dont pass or see yourself as female and are miserable about it doesnt mean everyone else suffers the same fate. the technology is here and has been here for a while you either just missed the cut or had a bad roll of the genetic dice or were too far gone with male socialization. whatever the case, stop projecting onto everyone else and accept that some trans women are female even if you yourself are not

            [...]
            ok i'm starting to think you dont even know who you're arguing with? i already said i am stealth, see myself as female and others do too. i studied a lot in college because i was interested in this stuff so i have some pretty good insight into arguments that break apart poor understanding of biology. i never had to struggle knowing who i was. i am female. i will always be female. i live as any other cis woman. those facts in my head dont make me less female. they just make me even more certain of the reality. i truly dont know who you're arguing with i never said anything against you i agree with the things you say # just because you dont see yourself as a female (which you clearly arent) doesnt mean there are no trans females

            Then we're just working off different definitions I guess. I'm working from the perspective that someone being female is an observable fact about the universe that can be discovered via some form of investigation. You don't seem to be taking this approach. If I looked at your chromosomes, I'd see Y's. If we put you through a battery of tests, it would be obvious you were amab.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            we actually dont know if we'd see Y. could be XX SRY+ for all we know. and being able to discover someone is amab doesnt mean they arent female. its like the example we were using. if you open up that xbox and see its using ps5 hardware, you know it isnt an official xbox. but its still an xbox despite that. trans and cis females are both females even if they arent the same

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >you open up that xbox and see its using ps5 hardware, you know it isnt an official xbox.

            We're also not exactly the same sex because I have no idea what any of this means other than some kind of a toy I saw advertised at one time Xbox something about it being like a PlayStation thing or I don't know I never owned any stuff like that so I don't know what it is?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you have a pattern of playing dumb and then using that as evidence you are more female than others lol. feels pretty misogynistic and malebrained. its very normal to know what an xbox and playstation are, they've been around for like decades. and its not hard to understand that there is an inner an outer to technology. the same comparison can be used with cell phones. if you change an iphone 11 to be in an iphone 12 case and work like an iphone 12 with iphone 12 software, its an iphone 12

            being dumb doesnt make you female hon it just makes you dumb. cant even believe i have to explain that

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >understand that there is an inner an outer to technology.

            I really don't have any idea what inner and outer technology refers to I don't know what you mean?
            >the same comparison can be used with cell phones. if you change an iphone 11 to be in an iphone 12 case and work like an iphone 12 with iphone 12 software, its an iphone

            All I know is that an iPhone is like an Apple phone and they're supposed to be better at mine's an Android phone made by Samsung.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            girl...being dumb is not a flex. are you like 13 years old or just not very smart?

            also having an android is malebrained lol

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            They're female if everyone perceives them as female

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >Are you implying that women never seek pregnancies when it might be risky?
            No, I'm saying that it's selfish and even more selfish in the case of trans women because there are going to be far more things that can go wrong all for the purpose of validation when you could just go out and adopt a kid who needs a parent rather than growing one inside of you (who won't by the way be related to you in any way unless you take the uterus of a family member)

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You mean the egg of a family member. The uterus does not determine parenthood.

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            I assumed it would come with the overies lol. Sure, you could get a family member's egg implanted and be weird and carry your sisters child or something.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No I wouldn't do any of that shit I don't want any of that shit I don't lie I just am convinced that I'm a female and that there's nothing anybody can do about it because there's no history that shows anything to contradict that I am and I just got the kind of body super hot body that is definitely a female proportion's 5'6 125 lb I got it down pat !

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            What are female proportions, though?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            My body is female proportions 36-24-38.

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            yes and I'm sure all those cis women who gave birth via C-section after uterus transplants were also evil.

            >So a woman is born without an uterus but has ovaries.
            Yes this happens sometimes agreed.

            >Do you have ovaries?
            No like many women i do not have ovaries atm.

            >We can do this all night theres a bunch of woman's parts left to enumerate.
            I agree and this is because sex denotes a series of sexual characteristics which are increasingly mutable and were never fully exclusive.

            [...]
            If you say so! I agree if he identifies as a man he should feel welcome in the men's room but i personally feel as though its a risk for him. And not one id volunteer for myself as regardless of sex my gender is also not male.

            [...]
            Regardless of how you personally feel, it remains that women like 15chan should look out for her fellow women.

            >Regardless of how you personally feel, it remains that women like 15chan should look out for her fellow women.

            this exactly, transphobes' feelings do not matter here. cis and trans women, and trans folks in general, have to stick together and look out for each other.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            so true!!!

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            >yes and I'm sure all those cis women who gave birth via C-section after uterus transplants were also evil.
            Ummm, ya. It's stupidity and selfishness incarnate. Amabd have the additional issues that our bodies do a shit job of regulating hormones on our own and we have to rely on externally administration or really, really high levels of estrogen and progesterone to approximate afabs.

            Just adopt, Jesus.

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            yes we will be receiving uterus transplants within our lifetimes https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6492192/

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >putting a literal baby at severe health risks for the selfish purpose of feeling validated as a woman

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            In your mind yeah!
            you can't do what I can do sorry you just can't do it
            I can take a lie detector test, if they ask me was I born female, I could say yes and it's not going to show any signs of lies because I believe it!
            I've created ability to believe in things that may not be factual, but nevertheless I've trained my mind so I can believe in it
            If the most vicious cop in the world said he'd kill me if I lie and asked me if I were a female since birth I could say yes and not be a bit afraid because it would be more frightening for me to admit that that might be true then to give into his threats my mind is case hardened around the idea that I'm born a female and that's the only way you can really be a female. Believe you're born a female. You can change your sex and do everything else that makes your thinking that you were born a female seem realistic, but if you can't admit to yourself that you believe you were born a female you're not really a female

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            could you explain it better please?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Thats incorrect, ive undergone years of hormone replacement therapy suppressing male sexual characteristics while promoting female sexual characteristics. It would be highly inaccurate to refer to me as male, id love to hear you try to define male in such a way that your point has any merit.

            This person identifies as male and uses he/him pronouns. He probably underwent the same treatments you did but uses the men's restroom.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >implying you call him a man because you respect his identity
            /pol/chuds aren't trying very much

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I just dont want to be around men when im getting changed, thats a reasonable request.
            It's also a reasonable request for cis women not to want to be in the same room with you when undressing

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        They should make it so that you have to show your penis to gain access to male spaces.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          They should make it so you can't change your birth sex on your official papers and there's a machine that scans your ID before you can enter the bathroom.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            But what about the illegal immigrants? Are they supposed to just pee and poo on the street?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      your birth sex is your current sex. gender is the one that is (allegedly) not fixed

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        you are mistaken and should brush up on biology lol. we've been calling it a sex change for a century for a reason

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Have you seen what SRS genitals are like? Neopenises grow hair on the shaft and neoveganas still have the base of the penises inside them that gets hard when the transwoman is aroused. It's called a sex change to alleviate dysphoria, not because it reflects reality.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Neopenises grow hair on the shaft
            That's why you're supposed to get electrolysis

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i've seen srs pussy a lot. what you are saying is completely untrue. you are stating completely incorrect information as if its fact. confidence doesnt make you right. i dont know what kind of surgeons tyou're talking about (probably budget usa insurance butchers) but the girls i am friends with and myself go to the best. that idea of it "getting hard" is laughable because that doesnt happen. it looks, feels, smells, and tastes like a vegana. our boyfriends will happily agree.

            you are also wrong about sex change terminology. we have been calling it that for a century. the term has been used long before the word "dysphoria" ever came into practice. before anyone gave a shit about trans rights. things dont become so because you want them to. its a sex change because we change sex

            >have trans friend
            >support them as a woman
            >warn them against bottom surgery
            >cuts all contact
            >2 years later
            >wake up to an unread message
            >"you were right, this was all a terrible mistake"
            >find out they killed themselves right after
            Turns out it's a pretty common story btw.

            well out of the what, 2 dozen girls i know who have had it done all are very happy and their partners are very satisfied. maybe you should do your research first and go to the right surgeon instead of getting it paid for by insurance companies who dont care about you

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >LARPing this hard

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >i dont like what you're saying so im going to pretend its a larp
            is this how you get out of listening to any information that conflicts with your preconceived beliefs?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Kind of like how you're dismissing reality as "disinfo and schizo rambles"?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            its pretty easy to dismiss things as disinfo and schizo rambles because the information is incorrect and there is a conspiratorial vibe to the argument, like yourskdpn8k

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            they won't stop. eventually everyone will only believe disinfo about trans women and it will be on Wikipedia as the accepted wisdom. and behind the veil of legitimacy you'll only find this

            >we're women too.

            as the underlying reason for it all. arm yourselves folks.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            sounds a bit schizo. i think people are just tired of being pressured to fight against their instincts. if you dont pass, you arent fully a woman and arent entitled to everything women get. its that simple

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            oh so you mean accepted wisdom like less than 12 years ago when everyone recognized how insane you are? and how they would openly say "No, I don't want men and boys in the dressing room with my elementary school age daughter" and no fear retribution?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's nothing like that it depends on the surgeon there was some surgeons in Brussels Belgium that did the surgery where they left kind of a bump but the surgeries that I had did not have any penal parts used

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      [...]
      frick off and die. you traumatize young trans women with your hatemongering.

      why do mtf trannies NEED to be in the same space as afabs? you do understand women want these restrictions because they feel uncomfortable with you being there when they're at their most vulnerable? if you went to the men's room you would only be making yourself uncomfortable instead of a room full of women. men probably wont mind.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        As an AFAB, STFU. Cissoids are uncomfortable with trannies, lesbians, literally everyone and everything that isn't a near carbon copy of them. Doesn't mean shit. These same discussions were had over lesbians in the changing rooms and guess what, eventually people just realised that they were being irrational about it because generalising any group as predatory is inaccurate

        Just put fricking stalls in the gendered spaces that don't have them already, no one really wants to be exposed around other people, cis or trans, and it'd solve all these problems in a heartbeat

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Thank you. Locker rooms- despite what any teen drama TV show otherwise suggests- are places people get changed in quickly to get on to the thing they're changing for. No one has batted an eye over places like Target having mixed dressing rooms because you have the space to change on your own.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >men probably won't mind
        yeah sure haha. every time I've ever been in there they get so obviously uncomfortable. they will literally stand by the door and wait for me to leave rather than just use it normally while there's a woman inside.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        because some trans females belong in afab spaces and some dont. the ones who dont demand that they should be let in while the ones who do belong only belong because they worked hard to get to that point. classic non passers commanding obedience from society instead of trying to blend in

      • 2 years ago
        15chan

        we're women too. if we back down on this it's backing down on our womanhood in relation to everything else. they won't ever stop. they'll keep taking it all till we have nothing left.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >we're women too.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Planting a seed for self-exmination half a decade or so from now, remember this phrase. If you ever want to understand what is meant by privilege, this is a good example: that you could say, get away with, and had motivation to make this comment at all, in this specific way.

            -The homophobic snob on that one forum a decade ago

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            um that wasn't homophobic that was transphobic

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          SOME trans women are women too. many are not. at some point we have to draw a line and acknowledge the fact that many trans women do not and will never pass as women. we cant expect people to reject what their eyes and intuition sees. how we are seen by people is just as important as who we are on the inside. people have to stop demanding rights for things they havent earned. if you look like a male but are on hrt what makes you belong in a female space? hormones? identity? thats not why the other women are in there

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            because you are allowing them to chop off our hair and breasts, restrict our access to HRT, shoot us up with T, and say that we don't belong in female spaces anymore because we don't "pass" as female anymore. I'm a woman no matter what I look like. take away everything I have, put a woman's brain in a vat, and she's still a woman. anything us will let them turn us into men for their devices. you see that it's coming

            sounds a bit schizo. i think people are just tired of being pressured to fight against their instincts. if you dont pass, you arent fully a woman and arent entitled to everything women get. its that simple

            oh so you mean accepted wisdom like less than 12 years ago when everyone recognized how insane you are? and how they would openly say "No, I don't want men and boys in the dressing room with my elementary school age daughter" and no fear retribution?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            i acknowledge people as women if they say they are women and transition. but its foolish to pretend like the physical body doesnt matter and mind is all that matters. if you take a cis female brain and put it in a vat shes still a female, but so is her body. if you take anon passing trans females brain and put it in a vat shes still a female, but her body isnt. so in the real world where bodies matter a lot, how can you expect people to treat you differently than how your body is telling them to?

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            what body, it's a fricking vat. that's the point of the thought experiment.

            >so in the real world where bodies matter a lot, how can you expect people to treat you differently than how your body is telling them to?

            my body is "telling them" to treat me a specific way??? they have no control over their own brains and thought processes stemming from socialization?

            okay so we are dooming women to be contextualized by their sex forever right? under this framework we will keep getting harassed forever because our bodies are just so hot and the sanctity of this world where "bodies matter" and so our hot bodies basically belong to men, they can say or do whatever they want to us, that's okay then?

            I hope you realize acceptance doesn't exist, it's a forced meme. Anyone whose not you (99.9% of the population) see's it as delusional or at best misguided. People talk about this on the internet and not in real life out of fear of being fired from their jobs via the twitter mobs. Reality is reality and labels will not change that, nor will it change what people think of it.

            okay. then as I said, arm yourselves folks. according to chuds, 99.9% of the world hates us, we'd better take that seriously.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >what body, it's a fricking vat. that's the point of the thought experiment.
            my point is its a shitty thought experiment because even if cis/trans females have the same female brains, whats different (and what causes the problems in society) is the body.

            if you are a 6'2 broad shouldered strong jawed size 12 mens shoe beard shadowed shaq handed trans woman do you really expect to be treated the same as a skinny 5'2 petite cute curvy woman? this is what the trans movement is demanding of people even though every can intuitively tell what a woman or a man is. protecting their pronouns is ok, people should be treated with respect. but you should just be given female rights and privileges just because you decided you were a woman 2 days ago.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            *you shouldnt just be given female rights and privileges just because you decided you were a woman 2 days ago.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            it's the ultimate narcissism, these people are deranged beyond belief and being a protected class is the only reason it's been allowed to continue.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            no i just think they're people like you and me who were dealt a shit hand and dont want that to determine the trajectory of the rest of their lives. i definitely feel for them. but i still dont think that translates to being entitled to female rights and privileges if you dont blend in with females. the thing is with transitioning, the people who get to the end and finish no longer associate with trans stuff and dont even see trans rights as an issue to fight for for themselves. so whats left is the people who depend on it for meaning

            >but you should just be given female rights and privileges just because you decided you were a woman 2 days ago.

            try since I was 12. I've been a woman longer than the girls you see as your property, who you're trying to "protect" from trans women in bathrooms (interesting how you don't seem to care about young boys who will then be in the men's bathroom with trans women you forced in there).

            >if you are a 6'2 broad shouldered strong jawed size 12 mens shoe beard shadowed shaq handed trans woman do you really expect to be treated the same as a skinny 5'2 petite cute curvy woman?

            this isn't about what we "expect". I already expect to be treated like shit by cis folks, I already expect for ugly women to be treated like shit compared to conventionally attractive women etc. we all deserve the same rights and respect as women.

            i'm not talking about you? clearly? im trans myself, wtf you mean "property". i just think its reasonable for girls to want to be around other girls and not be annoyed and weirded out by non passing trans girls who started hrt a month prior

            >if you are a 6'2 broad shouldered strong jawed size 12 mens shoe beard shadowed shaq handed trans woman do you really expect to be treated the same as a skinny 5'2 petite cute curvy woman?
            That isn't the fricking point, no one is arguing that. Jesus Christ, how hard is it to stop seeing trans women as predatory rapists over something they have no control over and that brings them great distress? Just give them the basic human decency of letting them use a space to change without the fear of being hate crimed by cis moids who think that femininity mixed with penis is the height of degeneracy

            that isnt what you want. you feel entitled to everything cis females have regardless of whether you resemble a female at all in the first place. to the modern trans movement, wanting to be female is the same as being female. and thats pathetic

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >the thing is with transitioning, the people who get to the end and finish no longer associate with trans stuff and dont even see trans rights as an issue to fight for for themselves
            did you come from 1980? this is a very antiquated train of thought and it's very out of touch with reality. it was like that a long time ago, but like it or not, stealth tranners who cut ties and start new lives are a rare breed now, if there even is an "end" as you posit. trans woman is a gender in itself, and if you were born amab, you are one, whether you're ashamed of it and hiding it or not.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            this is a very poorly formed train of thought and is very out of touch with reality. how on earth would you know how many people live stealth lives? you wouldnt see them online, in the news, in real life, or anywhere. exactly, you cant know. you think because you dont see them they arent there but they are, and the fact you dont see them means they are successfully staying invisible. i know these people exist because i have connected with many. its nice to have an outlet with people who understand that experience.

            trans woman is not a gender in itself. has to be one of the most idiotic things ive heard to date. transition is a period that lies between the sex you were assigned at birth and the sex you are transitioning to. successful transitions lead to full sex changes and recognition from other people, the state and other institutions as your transitioned sex. most transitions dont reach this place, they are usually in some kind of perpetual transition where they dont pass fully or dont go all the way and live as a trans woman. trans woman is the middle area.

            amab/afab are dumb words that are only used to keep non passers out. i and others like me just say we're afab. we pass, we have veganas, our birth certificates say female, we are stealth to our boyfriends families. if you dont like it cry about it but itll have no impact on how we live our lives

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            didn't you admit you didn't know about transitioning until you were 18, and you claim to live a completely stealth life? lol. they will round you up too sis.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            transitioning at 18 means you can't live a stealth life? have you ever heard of genetics? i am 5'4 with cis f proportions and pass to anyone unless i tell them im trans. stop trying to fight a war that's insanely malebrained just blend in with cis women or shut up about trans issues

            Most of them can't go all the way though to the point where they don't remember themselves being anything other than the gender they live in that's what I've done and the other reason I bought this site is because I'm so now it doesn't matter and so I don't give a shit anymore so I am remembering it and I'd rather live it in gaytown anyway because of life I chose is bored as shit

            yeah exactly most cant which is why we are in the situation we're in. the people who cant have to demand acceptance instead of earning it

            Based on... Outdated and exclusionary definitions that not even portions of cis women can live up to? Your opinion?

            [...]
            I'm a pooner you moron

            >female is the same as being female
            Imagine reading "hey maybe we should stop treating non-passers like serial rapists and just let them change without risking being hatecrimed" and immediately going on a rant about how entitled modern trans people are or whatever. I do not give a shit about what trans people "actually" are and to a large extent it doesn't matter. This whole panic around changing rooms etc is unfounded paranoia based on stereotypes and false ideas that are being pushed about trans people at large

            >I'm a pooner you moron
            i dont see how thats relevant you can be a pooner and still have bad ideas about trans people

            you are dangerously insane and you ARE stuck in the 70s/80s, wow. you are not afab and it is extraordinarily dangerous both for yourself and for the rest of us to claim you are. you are a trans woman, which is a type of woman, yes, but you'll never not be a trans woman for the rest of your life. enjoy your life of lying i suppose

            i'm literally a zoomer i'm just not a modern idiot pedaling gender ideology.

            you either get it or you dont. your acceptance of me calling myself afab is completely irrelevant, so cry about it all you like it doesnt change my life. im a transsexual, yes. but i am a female first. and in most contexts the transsexual tag is not necessary to share. according to the state i am afab, according to everyone i encounter i am afab, im not going to go around telling people i am a trans woman just because some NSFFWners think i should lol

            What if im a 5"3' clocky twinkhon w a pass voice

            in my experience this is ok as long as you blend in. a little clockiness is really not the end of the world if you are a normal woman and not some gender abolitionist twitter tranner, especially if you are small and look mostly female. i know a few girls who mostly pass but are clocky and may not live fully stealth but they're pretty close to it

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Anyone that's really transsexual is probably not going to be on this board because they're off living their lives now some transgendered kids will be on this board and then there's a few old ladies like me because they like kids

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you're definitely right this place sucks but i am out of town for a couple weeks and have nothing to do so am wasting time

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That's my problem I got nothing better to do than watch The Three Stooges which is a little more intellectual than this thing but neither one of them is very mind absorbing so I do them both concomitantly.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >i dont see how thats relevant you can be a pooner and still have bad ideas about trans people
            It's relevant when you make it relevant. Plus I really don't see how my ideas about trans people are bad when in this case it's ideally just getting stalls and as a less ideal option, letting people use whatever facilities they're least likely to get hatecrimed in

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Most of them can't go all the way though to the point where they don't remember themselves being anything other than the gender they live in that's what I've done and the other reason I bought this site is because I'm so now it doesn't matter and so I don't give a shit anymore so I am remembering it and I'd rather live it in gaytown anyway because of life I chose is bored as shit

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            you are dangerously insane and you ARE stuck in the 70s/80s, wow. you are not afab and it is extraordinarily dangerous both for yourself and for the rest of us to claim you are. you are a trans woman, which is a type of woman, yes, but you'll never not be a trans woman for the rest of your life. enjoy your life of lying i suppose

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It doesn't matter to me at all because I've lived in my life in the seventies and the '80s and the 90s and pretty much old and spent now so what difference does it make what you think some kid on the Internet thanks so much shit about me like I should really give a shit about that why would I care about what a kid thinks

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Based tranma. Don't let the haters get you down.

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            >but you should just be given female rights and privileges just because you decided you were a woman 2 days ago.

            try since I was 12. I've been a woman longer than the girls you see as your property, who you're trying to "protect" from trans women in bathrooms (interesting how you don't seem to care about young boys who will then be in the men's bathroom with trans women you forced in there).

            >if you are a 6'2 broad shouldered strong jawed size 12 mens shoe beard shadowed shaq handed trans woman do you really expect to be treated the same as a skinny 5'2 petite cute curvy woman?

            this isn't about what we "expect". I already expect to be treated like shit by cis folks, I already expect for ugly women to be treated like shit compared to conventionally attractive women etc. we all deserve the same rights and respect as women.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >if you are a 6'2 broad shouldered strong jawed size 12 mens shoe beard shadowed shaq handed trans woman do you really expect to be treated the same as a skinny 5'2 petite cute curvy woman?
            That isn't the fricking point, no one is arguing that. Jesus Christ, how hard is it to stop seeing trans women as predatory rapists over something they have no control over and that brings them great distress? Just give them the basic human decency of letting them use a space to change without the fear of being hate crimed by cis moids who think that femininity mixed with penis is the height of degeneracy

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >to stop seeing trans women as predatory rapists
            well, I mean a nontrivial portion of men are creeps and rapists, and pedophiles. a man in a dress campaigning for the right to be in the girls changing room? seems a tid bit sussy tbh especially to a parent.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah, if they're men but they're not men

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous
          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            What's your point? men don't want to become women if they want to become woman you can't be a man you can be male but you can't be a man.

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            >a man in a dress

            the mask doesn't even slip, it's off from the start

            it's the ultimate narcissism, these people are deranged beyond belief and being a protected class is the only reason it's been allowed to continue.

            . these people cannot be reasoned with. they won't stop until the scenario I'm "paranoid" about (even tho our community has a history of being forced into conversion camps and being molested by conversion therapists), is a harsh reality.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            well we had to know they was presenting as a female right?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I hate trannies because of predatory cis males
            Not the gotcha you think it is.

            Look at countries where self ID is legal, like Ireland and Portugal IIRC. No boom in gendered space assaults.
            >especially to a parent.
            Fear based "think of the children" arguments don't mean shit if they don't reflect reality.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            They're not women though.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Based on... Outdated and exclusionary definitions that not even portions of cis women can live up to? Your opinion?

            no i just think they're people like you and me who were dealt a shit hand and dont want that to determine the trajectory of the rest of their lives. i definitely feel for them. but i still dont think that translates to being entitled to female rights and privileges if you dont blend in with females. the thing is with transitioning, the people who get to the end and finish no longer associate with trans stuff and dont even see trans rights as an issue to fight for for themselves. so whats left is the people who depend on it for meaning

            [...]
            i'm not talking about you? clearly? im trans myself, wtf you mean "property". i just think its reasonable for girls to want to be around other girls and not be annoyed and weirded out by non passing trans girls who started hrt a month prior

            [...]
            that isnt what you want. you feel entitled to everything cis females have regardless of whether you resemble a female at all in the first place. to the modern trans movement, wanting to be female is the same as being female. and thats pathetic

            I'm a pooner you moron

            >female is the same as being female
            Imagine reading "hey maybe we should stop treating non-passers like serial rapists and just let them change without risking being hatecrimed" and immediately going on a rant about how entitled modern trans people are or whatever. I do not give a shit about what trans people "actually" are and to a large extent it doesn't matter. This whole panic around changing rooms etc is unfounded paranoia based on stereotypes and false ideas that are being pushed about trans people at large

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >using pooner unironically
            opinion discarded

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >arm yourselves folks
            statistically maybe not the best idea :/

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I hope you realize acceptance doesn't exist, it's a forced meme. Anyone whose not you (99.9% of the population) see's it as delusional or at best misguided. People talk about this on the internet and not in real life out of fear of being fired from their jobs via the twitter mobs. Reality is reality and labels will not change that, nor will it change what people think of it.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >because you are allowing them to chop off our hair and breasts, restrict our access to HRT, shoot us up with T, and say that we don't belong in female spaces anymore

            Wow, you're one crazy paranoid kid

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            15chan, real women not wanting to be forced to tolerate fake women like yourself doesn't mean that they want to "chop off your hair and breasts, restrict your access to HRT, and/or shoot you up with T".

            No matter how angry you get, no matter how many times you say that you're a woman, you are a male person. It isn't women's job to include you and make you feel like you are anything other than that, especially when this is detrimental to their own dignity and their own safety.

            Real women are not obligated to coddle fake women.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That's right but I can convince those real women that I'm real to the point where they don't ever question me never would they questioned me because I know in my heart to hearts that I am female born and raised and they're in a God damn thing anybody can do about it

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        You frame it as a need as though no one needs a bathroom. "Want" describes the situation better, because transwomen (the only group with this 80s-esque controversy about bathrooms being directed at them) doing the opposite will get just as much awkward, "concerned" attention at best. At worst it makes them targets.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      lmao dude, you need only look in the mirror to see how it is in fact relevant

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      lmao troons are fricking insane

  8. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Change in the janitors closet where you belong

    • 2 years ago
      koneko

      So you're willingly giving up the moral high ground? Cool

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        i think this troony is in the right because she posted a cute image.

        • 2 years ago
          koneko

          Legit how is dehumanization the moral high ground in any way

    • 2 years ago
      Rank 1 Boymoder

      i would actually prefer this option, i hate changing rooms regardless of male or female
      even in highschool, i'd go into the stall to change into my swimsuit

      frick open changing rooms entirely

  9. 2 years ago
    15chan

    [...]

    frick off and die. you traumatize young trans women with your hatemongering.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      cry harder

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      But how is it hatemongering if it's not denying transwomen their womanhood?

      • 2 years ago
        15chan

        what other implication could there be for excluding trans women from other women, besides the idea that we're latent rapists who will expose ourselves to them? why aren't cis lesbians barred? it's all about intentions and actions, this prophylactic anti-penis measure is dumb, especially while at the same time they're taking away our access to HRT and surgeries so it's their fault that we stand out MORE among afabs.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          AMABs have absurdly high rates of sex crimes compared to AFABs. It's been that way since the dawn of history.

          https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            >https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/
            >linking to a UK terf site

            lol okay.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >fairplayforwomen

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            what constitutes a sexual offence? what about prisoners who haven't declared themselves trans?
            also I looked up this study
            >There are likely to be more trans inmates, on shorter sentences and who are less likely to be sex offenders, who don't show up in this data.
            >Nor does it count prisoners who have already been given a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).
            >The survey only counts prisoners who have already had a case conference - a meeting of senior managers and other officials - to decide how to manage the trans person within the prison estate.
            >These are likely to be prisoners serving longer sentences.

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            we've debunked this so many times chuddy, it literally selects for longer sentences and also for rapehons

            what constitutes a sexual offence? what about prisoners who haven't declared themselves trans?
            also I looked up this study
            >There are likely to be more trans inmates, on shorter sentences and who are less likely to be sex offenders, who don't show up in this data.
            >Nor does it count prisoners who have already been given a Gender Recognition Certificate (GRC).
            >The survey only counts prisoners who have already had a case conference - a meeting of senior managers and other officials - to decide how to manage the trans person within the prison estate.
            >These are likely to be prisoners serving longer sentences.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I saw rapehons in prison and they were in for raping children and they were the only troons around
            it was traumatic

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >fairplayforwomen

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      stay out of the women’s restrooms freak

  10. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >email my guidance counselor
    you know I guess I'm glad that the young people think transphobia will be taken seriously by like anyone but like I just can't imagine a response to this other than like finding a closet

  11. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    i definitely understand where this kind of thing comes from. especially in a theatre department a lot of trans women are very masc, some have male voices and beard shadow and to no fault of their own just dont exactly fit in with other girls. some can also be really needy and annoying. depending on how weird or creepy they are it can make sense to want a private space. i dont think this is transphobic because i know if i encountered this or other people like me we would be allowed in since i pass as cis, am post op, and am technically afab as far as government docs are concerned. there is no easy way of sorting out trans people based on how well they pass or fit in with other girls nowadays, it always comes off as being transphobic towards some other people. but i understand the desire to want a private space with people who are girls and not in the process of transitioning to one.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >passoid stealthoid is a pick me who throws other trannies under the bus
      wow what a surprise

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        i've just been around trans people who dont pass and it changes the vibe a lot. i am all for being inclusive in as many situations as possible but sometimes you just want to be comfortable with other girls who look and feel like girls

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >and it changes the vibe a lot
          this is a shit reason to actively exclude people from society
          you're a scummy pick me

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            just because you're on hrt doesnt magically mean you are entitled to every female only space. it takes time, effort, and luck to get to a point where you are seen by the rest of the world as a female. that's when you get the privileges/rights. you dont get them just because you demand them, that's whats wrong with the trans movement

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Excluding people who do not belong is a good thing though. Spaces are always improved by excluding the lowest common denominator, even though it is not in capital's interest to foster this idea. If you pass well enough no women would be able to tell, then you should belong. People who don't pass are arrogant twats, they think they are somehow entitled to all these privileges. Hot tip, it is not a human right to use the bathroom of your choice! Put in the work, time, and money to pass or don't expect anything. It is that simple, you will never be able to untrain people's disgust at seeing a man failing badly at being a woman.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      weird flex but ok

  12. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    a straight transman should go in there

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I definitely wouldn’t mind going in there

  13. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    troony wants a pmc to enable her

  14. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Unless you're having sex at that exact moment, your sex / sexual organs literally do not matter.
    Excluding people based on something that is innate and irrelevant is discrimination.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I thought transwomen wanted to use the women's room to be safe from rapists. Letting everyone in the same space would just let those same horny men near vulnerable transwomen.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I'm an enby you homosexual.
        Just have all restrooms have stalls! Then you're shielded from even seeing anyone's sexual organs!
        Also, what rapist has ever been stopped by a bathroom sign? It's like American schools that have signs that says "No Guns Allowed". Here's a key insight into the criminal mind for ya: if they're already willing to commit some truly heinous act (rape, mass murder), then they're going to be willing to commit some relatively trivial crime too (entering the women's restroom, trespassing on school property).
        Also, if everyone is in one big unisex bathroom, then it'll be harder to catch people alone. Too many potential witness, anyone could come in at any moment, most people will either try to fight of the rapist or at the very least go get help.

  15. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's irrelevant once you change sex

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >change sex

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Yes precisely.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Yes sex change it's an operation that changes your sex if you never heard of it you're just ill informed

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          The operations name is a misnomer, it in no way changes your sex.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Cosmetic surgery, yes.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes it does change your sex it removes the penis and creates a vegana and you're a female with a vegana because no males have a vegana it's impossible because a man is identified as having a penis a man is a penis bearing person a woman is a vegana bearing person you don't know that you don't have a driver's license because it's based on your birth certificate which is based on your vegana or penis

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            There's a reason why they label them neo-penises and neo-veganas. If a boob job can't even get close to the real thing, what makes you think bottom surgery is anywhere near that point?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            They do get close to the real thing and people aren't so picky about it. As for you because you're ultra focused on this stuff all the time you don't ever think about anything else but gender and identity and sex issues; it's magnified in your brain. There are some people had a sex change and never really had a relationship with anybody cuz they didn't plan on it. There are other people that have had relationships and they told her mates and only their mates about their history there's some that don't tell anybody because it's difficult to find a relationship and if you're really attractive looking it's almost foolish to tell anyone

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            they call them neo-veganas because its a new vegana, a surgically constructed vegana. if we could make hearts from donor material and called them neo-hearts it wouldnt make it any less of a heart. its just surgically constructed. and the procedure has been performed for a century if you go to the right place the result is amazing

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            it's not a misnomer. we've been using the term for over a century, the biology of a transitioned person is radically transformed, and by most metrics the sex of that person has been changed to a reasonable degree as to acknowledge that person as female. the fact we can change birth certificates is no small fluke. the science is very clear.

  16. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I was assigned female at birth by The Lord

  17. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    You’ve never been in a dressing room for either gender.
    Also it’s amazing how easy it is to go about your day in many public places without seeing any kind of genital even in gender separated places like bathrooms and locker rooms, who knew

  18. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >"LITTLE GIRLS DON'T WANT TO UNDRESS IN FRONT OF BOYS QUICK CALL THE POLICE"

  19. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I don't want trans men in my changing room

  20. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    What is the sex of the adult in the dressing room anyways and what is the sex of the person trying to change this?

  21. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    the absolute state of these people. no wonder gays and lesbians distance themselves, you should hear what they say in private.

  22. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I generally don't care if you mtfs play dressup, even in public or use restrooms for everyone or w/e but there are places that are only for real women and we deserve our space

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >I'm not [thing] but [dictionary definition of thing]

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        i dont care for your wordgames and orwellian definition changes, most of humanity still knows what a real woman is and what not.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >literally george orville 1964

  23. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    even little babies can tell whether or not you pass, girls don't want men and boys watching them undress and neither do their parents.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      yep, its this simple. unfortunately hons will never stop demanding rights at the expense of literally everyone else.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        fr can you imagine this thing thinking it passes enough to blend in at a women’s dressing room

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          that's a female

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Is she now?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Professional background in child development here: please, please shut up. None of you folks know what you're talking about and keep speaking for us professionals. That goes for so *much* about human behavior in general.

      No, "babies" (working definition I'll use here is about 2yrs-old and down) generally don't have a strong sense of the differences between men and women but pick up that there *should be* a category they're "supposed" to put people. These categories- "schema"- develop almost altogether based on a very cursory glance at cultural markers for men and women or children. In the West this is almost invariably hair length and whether the person is wearing a dress. *All* women will be "mommy" for a good while until enough corrections and a better understanding of possessives provides kids the context they need to understand that not every woman is a mommy and that this is *my* mommy. A guy wearing a tank top may earnestly throw some kids and they're going to ask "Is that a man or a woman" if they realize they don't have enough context from past experience to answer positively on their own. It isnt about "clocking" anyone.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        john money was a pedophile and he caused death of his victims
        people like him deserve to burn in hell forever

  24. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Simply write “White” at the top of the sign, problem should sort itself out.

  25. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    this makes no sense. so MTFs arent allowed but big hairy bearded FTMs are allowed in??? just say no trans allowed or whatever

    • 2 years ago
      15chan

      nope we need to make sure everyone sees pubestache FtMs as women d00d, after all, the implication here is that they'd just get raped in "male spaces" where the amabs are.

  26. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >Come into a changing room and be astounded that there are naked bodies

  27. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    so just say you're afab

  28. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    literally this, why do trans woman want to be in the same changing room as afabs to begin with. shit is creepy.

    • 2 years ago
      15chan

      if anyone thinks I'm paranoid about this you don't understand the cis brain, especially the cis moid brain which yearns to ostracize and kill "the other", even if it's only through institutional disenfranchisement. cisoids and coping repressors cannot be reasoned with

      i dont care for your wordgames and orwellian definition changes, most of humanity still knows what a real woman is and what not.

      . it's "just NSFFW" but somehow right when all the boards become obsessed with us, TDS also catches on with everyone on twitter, terfs take over the UK and now it's p much impossible to transition early over there, soon it will be totally illegal, same here in the red states. this is not a drill anymore.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        how much cope and dissociation do you have to have when you understand the normal person as "moid brain" when you literally never become woman.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >same here in the red states. this is not a drill anymore.
        this. in florida govenor desantis is expected to announce "something big" in two weeks

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          She's finally coming out.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        you are seriously the most delusional and moronic poster on /lgbt/ and that’s saying a lot

        • 2 years ago
          15chan

          you're not my audience lol you are my opposition, I am not surprised to hear you say that.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I’m not right wing, this is mega cope you’re just an insane person being coddled by this place seek help schizo

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >i'm not a rightwinger, because ... i'm just not, okay?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You are right wing butthole anybody that uses this side as the right wing butthole including me we're all trash

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I’m not right wing
            Doubt.jpg

          • 2 years ago
            15chan

            I don't care what your special snowflake politics are, you are transphobic lol so you side with the dominant right-wing paradigm on this issue.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            based leftist

            can every woman give birth who's a woman?

            in theory, yes
            then there are people with 4 fingers...

            I can write and you can't I can say a lot and I can keep saying things and you can't because you're not literate I can go on and on and on and you can't do that because you don't have the ability to write you don't have anything to say that's your problem you can't think

            true king

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            In your theory I can have a baby too the same way same theoretical premises

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I'd say it's the end as well but I late transitioned so it was over already
        but those talking points were all good.
        Hard to early transition in the u.k. for sure..

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        this reads like a schizo rambling.

  29. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    If we didn't have ever started allowing the AGP auto-gynophilia meant to be involved in the transition process this would have never happened. Feminine gay men who wanted to become women basically left women alone and acted more like another woman or girlfriend more than a sex partner

    • 2 years ago
      15chan

      after restricting access to HRT for "AGPs" they will move onto gatekeeping straight girls because they could "just be gay men", it happened to me when I said I was bi when I was 14.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I don't care at all if it happens I wouldn't mind if it happens, it won't affect me.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        you sound mentally ill though

  30. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    i understand how it could make trans women feel excluded and uncomfortable but I think it's perfectly reasonable for an afab/amab to only be comfortable in the presence of ppl of their same sex in a dressing room. especially afab women

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      sorry thats unacceptable look at the penis and bake the cake terf

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Just become afab I did and if you can't

  31. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    As a cis woman im sorry I would not be comfortable in a changing room with some troony that started hrt 4 months ago

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      What if she was smaller than you and had it done when she was 4 months old?

  32. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    what's the next euphemism after "assigned female at birth"

  33. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    I don't think there's an afab posting in this entire thread lmao just ttttranies and larping polacks

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Sometimes I fart and it goes up my pussy hole.

  34. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    As long as you perceive this other birth sex you are that birth sex until you no longer perceive that birth sex You Are It!

    Are you having a stroke?

    >i looked in the mirror but i found very little indicating my birth sex is relevant as my current sex
    ???

    Idk what youre not getting, seems cut and dry to me.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Nice try you don't have anything to say in your defense do you. You'll always be your birth sex because you're stuck with it it's in your mind that you can't get it out of your head whatever you were born a man probably you're a man just a man with a dick

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Nice try you don't have anything to say in your defense do you. You'll always be your birth sex because you're stuck with it it's in your mind that you can't get it out of your head whatever you were born a man probably you're a man just a man with a dick

      lole

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        I can write and you can't I can say a lot and I can keep saying things and you can't because you're not literate I can go on and on and on and you can't do that because you don't have the ability to write you don't have anything to say that's your problem you can't think

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      dont bother with these idiots you are right and they are wrong and when they dont have an argument they just resort to insults so save yourself the trouble

  35. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    The assigned sex at birth terminology is mostly helpful for medical discussions. This is blatant misuse of it.
    If people go down this road I'm just going to call myself AFAB btw I do not care lmao I will not collaborate with your efforts to other me.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      If you can make yourself AFAB, then you're my equal but I don't think you can

  36. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    don't want to share dressing rooms with people who watch sissy trap fetish porn

  37. 2 years ago
    Boi-period

    Male and female: pretty damn well defined and narrow in scope terms describing genotype and phenotype.

    Man and woman: fuzzy, wide scope words that describe some combo of phenotype and role in society in the context of that society.

    Trans women may be women and they may express some characteristics associated with a female phenotype but they aren't female.

    It's not that hard

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      yeah, it's really intuitive!

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >trans women have biological sex characteristics in line with the female sex but they are not the female sex
      this is why you stay in school kids!

  38. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    AMABs want to frick children.

  39. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Thank you (earnestly) for sharing your experience.

  40. 2 years ago
    Boi-period

    Man and Woman are classes that can implement the interface Male and Female

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      stop flexing your autism, these concepts aren't in the hardware level

      • 2 years ago
        Boi-period

        >stop flexing your autism
        No
        >these concepts aren't in the hardware level
        I mean, phenotype correlates really, really strongly with genotype and you generally don't get all attributes of the phenotype without the matching genotype (though it happens sometimes for intersex people).

        All this shit is somewhat broad and isn't defined with pure and utter rigor. There are edge cases to consider, but probably no one here falls into them in any meaningful degree. Most troons are dudes/foids attempting to express the opposite (or intermediate) phenotype so that their gender issues are better addressed.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          what kind of gender issues other that individual worries about being wrong? i just think doubting yourself is unnecessary
          apparently i have psychosis

          • 2 years ago
            Boi-period

            Idk, you can be a woman/man all you want and however much society accepts it. We just won't ever be male or female to a meaningful degree without huge advances in medical technology.

  41. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >anons desperate to redefine what male and female means despite evolutionary evidence spanning half a billion years
    kek

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      i have psychosis too.
      psychosis is having delusional episodes

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >actively engaging in delusional psychosis to convince yourself you are a woman
        honestly based, I won't stop you

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          no, in my case i rationalize my failure(s) and i have rigid thinking which is somehow connected to suicides 🙂 lole

  42. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Trans men are the only ones that can really change sex because trans men have the ability to transcend sex trans women are just foolish men who don't understand how to be men because sexually attracted to themselves rather than as somebody else

  43. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    damn this thread really just devolved into a "what is a female/male" argument

    a female is anyone i see as female. a male is anyone i see as male. this is how it has been since the beginning of time

    science, and by extension anthropology, chose reproductive capacity as the primary metric for sex determination. because in the animal kingdom if you produce eggs youre female regardless of selected phenotype or behavior, and if you produce sperm you are male regardless of selected phenotype or behavior. in humans this distinction is not as simple, especially when you bring intersex people and transsexuals into the mix.

    sex in humans is a multi-categorical classification system based on several biological markers. under this paradigm sex is something that can be changed. not fully, but to a reasonable degree as to legally, medically, and socially accept it as a sex change. however. most trans people dont pass, and even fewer get bottom surgery. so the issue of appearance and genitals will always arise when considering where the official line is

    this is why the most logical (which also happens to be the most normal) perspective is to treat people who you perceive as female as a female, and people you perceive as male as a male. if they fall in between, you treat their identity with respect, but recognize they are visibly trans and so not entirely male or female, but you can usually tell they lean one way over the other

    basically the progression is
    male > trans woman > female
    female > trans man > male

    some make it to the end. most dont. you cant demand people into accepting you as something they dont see you as.

    arguing about sex past this is autistic, which is why it only happens online. be normal and just live and stop worrying about the big bad trannies or the oppressive terfs and alt right chuds

    thats my two cents. i've had enough of this site

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >a female is anyone i see as female. a male is anyone i see as male. this is how it has been since the beginning of time
      wrong. a female is a person of the sex that can reproduce. a male is of the sex that spreads its DNA to females.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        i guess you cannot read. animals do not have sex categorization, only humans have that ability. from the beginning of time we have been developing senses to determine what is male and what is female of ones species. this is still what humans do to this day. the anthropological definition does not negate this fact, it just means that there is a high correlation between what you perceive as female and what produces eggs, and what you perceive as male and what produces sperm. its a very high correlation, which is why the outliers (intersex people and transsexuals) are very rare medical conditions like being born with three arms.

        You're the only one that's right up on this board if you see somebody and you know they're a female then they are female you can't examine their body. If you see somebody you know they're male then they're male you can't examine their body either. I seen somebody at the thrift shop that look like a male but it also look like a female it was really weird cuz he had a man's haircut a man's face but a woman's body size and a woman's butt and I'm pretty sure it was a woman that had just a really short haircut in a very masculine face but the height and structure of the body seem more like a female or a very small bone male with a big butt

        exactly

        you're wrong though
        i don't know why the second paragraph wasn't enough to capture your thought
        you're thinking backwards to justify your points

        i'm not. if you disagree that's fine but this is the way the world works you can embrace it or run from it and argue about it on here. one of these options will improve your life, the other will make it worse.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >i guess you cannot read. animals do not have sex categorization, only humans have that ability.
          did you fail biology?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      You're the only one that's right up on this board if you see somebody and you know they're a female then they are female you can't examine their body. If you see somebody you know they're male then they're male you can't examine their body either. I seen somebody at the thrift shop that look like a male but it also look like a female it was really weird cuz he had a man's haircut a man's face but a woman's body size and a woman's butt and I'm pretty sure it was a woman that had just a really short haircut in a very masculine face but the height and structure of the body seem more like a female or a very small bone male with a big butt

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      you're wrong though
      i don't know why the second paragraph wasn't enough to capture your thought
      you're thinking backwards to justify your points

  44. 2 years ago
    Boi-period

    >These are just more and more transgender lies. I've said in this thread multiple times that 'male' is defined as the sex designed to inseminate, and 'female' is the sex designed to sexually reproduce.
    Yes
    >A transwoman is not a woman, she is a male person who wishes that she was a woman
    Depends on the working definition of woman being isomorphic to female, which it no longer is in a lot of places.

    If people treat you as a lady, you're effectively a lady in the eyes of society. If you adopt that (or a related) definition of womanhood, than lots of troons are women.

  45. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    You idiots don't know anything about reality if you were to go up to somebody in real life and tell them that they were not a real female when they were passing as a female they could do anything to stop you from existing because you're a threat to their existence you would be causing a break with their understanding reality they could do anything to eliminate your existence as a self-defense measure. It would be obvious in court if they were acting and self-defense because you're threatening their life
    You could also get in trouble with their spiritual beliefs and end up in all kinds of trouble on that level too

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      you live in a HELLhole? did you get it? cause religion? haha

    • 2 years ago
      Boi-period

      >You could also get in trouble with their spiritual beliefs and end up in all kinds of trouble on that level too
      Well there's the underlying issue prolly. I'm a materialist or materialistic platonist.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        You're just a plain fool that doesn't know anything about anything because you assume things about reality that doesn't exist you assume things about me that don't exist you don't have any idea who I am because I'm so many different people on this website nobody can keep track of who I am

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          you're mistaken.
          this is actually american anime underwater basket weaving fedsite

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I got more emotional hatred towards you than you got towards anybody because I don't like the fact that you exist that's pretty strong I don't like the way you cognate I don't like the way you exist. And I don't think you like yourself either

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            stop replying to yourself schizo, take your meds

  46. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Bet they will enjoy meeting me

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