what's the point? I'm a total retard and I've still never accidentally bricked a linux install by deleting important files
I don't think that's a thing that happens unless you try really hard to make it happen
It's certainly not a common enough problem to switch distros over
There is no point in this distro existing, except to act as a stepping stone towards something like NixOS, which actually does something meaningfully different compared to conventional distros.
I just learned about NixOS the other day and thought it was a really fucking cool idea. These immutable systems don't give me enough for me to want to switch to one, but NixOS offers much more and is more compelling. So yeah, I'm inclined to agree, this just feels like a component of OP's "future of Linux".
silverblue/microOS/other flatpak-oriented immutables have a retarded implementation
they could just use a tree snapshoting with CoW filesystem instead of using bloated containers >is it the future
layered systems are the future, anon
They're planning to boot docker images directly for the base layer. When this badboy hits everything will be immutable
https://github.com/containers/bootc
What I want is a hybrid between the SilverBlue and NixOS models. Basically a principled way of handling all the inherently stateful stuff NixOS papers over and ignores, in a way that can be integrated easily with the functional stuff.
Well, SilverBlue handles all stateful stuff via immutable snapshots and stateful overlays. NixOS papers over stateful things such as, for instance, GDM configuration, which is under the hood mutable user level configuration akin to any other login user on the system, but is in practice usually more like system configuration, only updated when you're updating the system configuration. These intersect in some cases, such as display configuration. Your primary and secondary monitor, monitor orientations, etc, are user configs, handled (correctly) in a stateful manner by NixOS. But because of how GDM configuration is treated as part of the stateless config, you can't easily have it update to reflect the mutable user configuration, like you could do with a simple script or symlink on a normal system. I sidestep this by running my config with impure, which allows my configuration.nix to inspect my main login user's display config and copy it for GDM, but this is, as previously stated, impure.
And here I was thinking you knew something I don't. Silverblue doesn't have any state handling whatsoever, just like a regular distro. At best it has btrfs snapshots, but I wouldn't really call that state handling, and it's definitely not a feature specific to Silverblue. The papering over thing with NixOS is a half-truth. It's possible to do that sort of stuff, but it's optional. You can use it for those cases where you want to force this type of configuration that sits in a limbo between state and actual configuration to be exactly what you specify, but if you prefer that stuff being stateful you can do that just as well. Given all that, I would argue that NixOS probably has much better state handling than other distros including Silverblue, with things like being able to boot from a completely empty state (only /nix and /boot populated, no /etc or /var even present) and especially system.stateVersion, which allows retaining compatibility with existing stateful data across releases.
>Silverblue doesn't have any state handling whatsoever, just like a regular distro. At best it has btrfs snapshots
Btrfs snapshots is openSUSE, including their immutable distro MicroOS and the upcoming SUSE ALP. Silverblue uses base images (like Android) and layers changes (installed/removed RPMs) on top
Fedora Workstation has switched to btrfs a while ago, I think Silverblue followed suit. Yes, having OSTree on top of btrfs sounds kind of stupid. Layering RPMs has nothing to do with state.
Too restrictive. Even shit like mounting external hard disks becomes a fucking chore. Great for grandma's PC but worthless for your personal rig if you're somewhat capable with a computer. Vanilla OS is the best immutable OS atm btw.
Rolling unlike fagdora
DE agnostic
Zypper can be slow but is very powersful
snapshots set-up by default if you use btrfs
best btrfs impelemntation
sponsor company has been accused of antisemetism
green > blue
lizard >facebook
openSUSE actually is the only one other than Ubuntu that gets official nvidia packages, nvidia updates can still break because nvidia lags behind the newest kernel sometimes, but that's an issue for all roling distros, you can lock nvidia driver not to updae.
codecs are easy to install, you just install opi first and then type opi codecs, zypper also has something called vendor-change, which takes cares of conflicting repos problem.
Both can be enabled with a couple of clicks in yast
On the command line it's something quick like `sudo zypper in opi && opi codecs` (opi is kind of like what yay is for Arch)
Rolling unlike fagdora
DE agnostic
Zypper can be slow but is very powersful
snapshots set-up by default if you use btrfs
best btrfs impelemntation
sponsor company has been accused of antisemetism
green > blue
lizard >facebook
NTA but that sounds pretty sweet. How come everyone just talks about Arch and Fedora and maybe Debian on Reddit and Hackernews?
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
No idea, arch has more packages, but I don't get why fedora is popular.
Because free software is about choice. I use Fedora and will hop to Alpine for my laptop because I want to use some cutting-edge software like Himitsu, and I'll try OpenBSD on my Raspberry Pi because a contributor told me there had been performances improvements and because I also want to use it to use it as a personal server.
>must have a system that prevents a retard from deleting wrong files
at this point just switch to windows, they will treat you the same baby way
>backups are for retards
Do fa/g/gots really?
Why are corpos trying so hard to mimic proprietary shitware? Just use Windows and be done with it.
Linux has been proprietary shitware since 1996
what is different about this compared to kinoite
spoonfeed me
Gnome/kde
This shit is kiosk ware
Grandma’s Fedora
It’s not really intended for most desktop users.. is it?
Its intended for any professional high value user with a life
what's the point? I'm a total retard and I've still never accidentally bricked a linux install by deleting important files
I don't think that's a thing that happens unless you try really hard to make it happen
It's certainly not a common enough problem to switch distros over
Try using your computer for computations, maybe you understand then
I do and I use conda environments for it
Nice, now why not remove the bloat and make your core immutable and integrate podman container (conda) into the distro?
There is no point in this distro existing, except to act as a stepping stone towards something like NixOS, which actually does something meaningfully different compared to conventional distros.
I just learned about NixOS the other day and thought it was a really fucking cool idea. These immutable systems don't give me enough for me to want to switch to one, but NixOS offers much more and is more compelling. So yeah, I'm inclined to agree, this just feels like a component of OP's "future of Linux".
FUCK OFF TRANNY.. KYS nagger
I'm already using the best immutable out there: SteamOS3.
silverblue/microOS/other flatpak-oriented immutables have a retarded implementation
they could just use a tree snapshoting with CoW filesystem instead of using bloated containers
>is it the future
layered systems are the future, anon
>layered systems are the future, anon
name one distro using this shit
They could just use unique per-package directory prefixes instead of relying on containers or bespoke filesystems
They're planning to boot docker images directly for the base layer. When this badboy hits everything will be immutable
https://github.com/containers/bootc
What I want is a hybrid between the SilverBlue and NixOS models. Basically a principled way of handling all the inherently stateful stuff NixOS papers over and ignores, in a way that can be integrated easily with the functional stuff.
What stateful stuff does NixOS paper over and how does Silverblue handle it?
Well, SilverBlue handles all stateful stuff via immutable snapshots and stateful overlays. NixOS papers over stateful things such as, for instance, GDM configuration, which is under the hood mutable user level configuration akin to any other login user on the system, but is in practice usually more like system configuration, only updated when you're updating the system configuration. These intersect in some cases, such as display configuration. Your primary and secondary monitor, monitor orientations, etc, are user configs, handled (correctly) in a stateful manner by NixOS. But because of how GDM configuration is treated as part of the stateless config, you can't easily have it update to reflect the mutable user configuration, like you could do with a simple script or symlink on a normal system. I sidestep this by running my config with impure, which allows my configuration.nix to inspect my main login user's display config and copy it for GDM, but this is, as previously stated, impure.
I want anon to read my reply bump. Goodnight.
And here I was thinking you knew something I don't. Silverblue doesn't have any state handling whatsoever, just like a regular distro. At best it has btrfs snapshots, but I wouldn't really call that state handling, and it's definitely not a feature specific to Silverblue. The papering over thing with NixOS is a half-truth. It's possible to do that sort of stuff, but it's optional. You can use it for those cases where you want to force this type of configuration that sits in a limbo between state and actual configuration to be exactly what you specify, but if you prefer that stuff being stateful you can do that just as well. Given all that, I would argue that NixOS probably has much better state handling than other distros including Silverblue, with things like being able to boot from a completely empty state (only /nix and /boot populated, no /etc or /var even present) and especially system.stateVersion, which allows retaining compatibility with existing stateful data across releases.
>Silverblue doesn't have any state handling whatsoever, just like a regular distro. At best it has btrfs snapshots
Btrfs snapshots is openSUSE, including their immutable distro MicroOS and the upcoming SUSE ALP. Silverblue uses base images (like Android) and layers changes (installed/removed RPMs) on top
Fedora Workstation has switched to btrfs a while ago, I think Silverblue followed suit. Yes, having OSTree on top of btrfs sounds kind of stupid. Layering RPMs has nothing to do with state.
But Fedora doesn't use the snapshots feature
I expected as much
Too restrictive. Even shit like mounting external hard disks becomes a fucking chore. Great for grandma's PC but worthless for your personal rig if you're somewhat capable with a computer. Vanilla OS is the best immutable OS atm btw.
>mounting external hard disks becomes a fucking chore.
What? Udisks2 works normally.
>mounting external hard disks becomes a fucking chore
You didn't even use the distro.
>Vanilla OS
They're wasting a fuckton of time going from Ubuntu based to Debian based. Should've gone with Debian from the start.
For me, it's OPENSUSE microOS
But Kinoite is also kino
>fedora
>future
Didn't Red Hat just lay off the head of the project?
only gnome and kde official versions (blah blah sway)
they should have a cinnamon/mate/xfce version too
inb4 ublueos
Ummmm sweaty these don't support wayland
i have an immutable opinion regarding xfree86/wayland
I hopped, but I'm regretting it, I'm goning back to openSUSE after this.
redpill us on sooza
Rolling unlike fagdora
DE agnostic
Zypper can be slow but is very powersful
snapshots set-up by default if you use btrfs
best btrfs impelemntation
sponsor company has been accused of antisemetism
green > blue
lizard >facebook
>sponsor company has been accused of antisemetism
>lizard >facebook
BASED
thanks for reply.
good with drivers etc? codecs/nvidia?
Codecs: Packman repo
Nvidia: official nvidia repo
Both can be enabled with a couple of clicks in yast
On the command line it's something quick like `sudo zypper in opi && opi codecs` (opi is kind of like what yay is for Arch)
openSUSE actually is the only one other than Ubuntu that gets official nvidia packages, nvidia updates can still break because nvidia lags behind the newest kernel sometimes, but that's an issue for all roling distros, you can lock nvidia driver not to updae.
codecs are easy to install, you just install opi first and then type opi codecs, zypper also has something called vendor-change, which takes cares of conflicting repos problem.
NTA but that sounds pretty sweet. How come everyone just talks about Arch and Fedora and maybe Debian on Reddit and Hackernews?
No idea, arch has more packages, but I don't get why fedora is popular.
Tumbleweed or MicroOS?
Tumbleweed, I have no need for immutable distro right now
best way to run jetbrains on silverblue?
/g/entoo just werks
Because free software is about choice. I use Fedora and will hop to Alpine for my laptop because I want to use some cutting-edge software like Himitsu, and I'll try OpenBSD on my Raspberry Pi because a contributor told me there had been performances improvements and because I also want to use it to use it as a personal server.