It's supposed to be an invincible wunderwaffe, which should mog any other country's airforce.
US has been arming Ukraine from around 2015. Plenty of time to train pilots. Hell, even if they started training from the beginning of the war, by this time pilots could be ready. But they are even hesitation about providing F-16. What's the problem? Wouldn't it be good for PR and increase sales, if Ukrainians BTFOd Russians with F-35??? And it's especially important right now, because Russians are using glide bombs on mass scale now, it needs to be countered.
It's similar situation with Abrams. Although they have supposedly been sent to Ukraine, with huge delay, but still not seen on battlefield. Almost like on purpose, after all the Leopard and Challenger footage...
>invincible wunderwaffe
They were even scared of us reverse engineering the stealth stuff on it. Invincible my ass.
at least you got shitty S-400s instead
Are your parents just cousins?
Force your government to attack Israel. Not just hollow threats. Only then will I like Turks. If you don't do that, you're just Israel's bitch like the Saudi's.
>you're just Israel's bitch like the Saudi's.
The only reason that arabs aren't attacking Israel is that muttmericans like you are Israel's bitchslaves guarding them.
As long as they keep us out of nato they're ok. If they declare war on israel I'll consider turks honorary white.
Cuz you'll fuck it up, and Russian s400/s500 will decimate them
>Russian s400/s500 will decimate
So far with careful usage the F-35 has destroyed the S-400 and S-500. Ukraine won't be as careful and will fly them in high risk situations. There's no advantage to using them in this way.
Amazing that the F-35 and S-500 have already seen combat with each other, considering that only one S-500 battery exists so far and is deployed near Moscow
especially since S-500 is an anti ballistic missile defense, its not a direct replacement for S-400
>So far with careful usage the F-35 has destroyed the S-400 and S-500.
Where and when? Let me guess, ISW simulations?
Because no-one cares about Ukraine any more
David Cameron cares.
He certainly has a history of being intimate with pigs lol
f35 is a clunky plane it's like a deliberately inferior version of f22 to keep the f22's advantages a secret and only in the hands of the american air force
>he fell for the top gun meme
Because at the end of the day Ukraine is still a ex-Soviet state. It hasn't been "remade" the same way Korea and Japan was so they could never trust them with F-35 tech.
Poland is getting F-35s, though
Yes, but they're paying for those. That's the difference.
Y'all haven't spent enough time on current Gen Fighters as an Air Force. Its a high step up in training and support capabilities. Ie lots of ground equipment per aircraft. Not to mention very rare, very expensive parts. The countries that have bought them, haven't bought very many. They're a lot to deal with. Also F-16s were literally made for very very fast, low flying, ground support as well as a fighter and will serve much better, and quite easier to integrate than any current gen aircraft.
It’s a lawn dart with expensive maintenance and equipment
Because it's brand new and we don't have enough yet to fully outfit our own forces never mind give them away. Also the risk of Russia capturing one and getting too close a look at it.
>capturing one and getting too close a look at it.
Come on Nigel, China already have the entire blueprint at this point. Whether from the 5th column Chinese that have been embedded over here for years, or from our greatest ally just selling it to them.
No they don't. They managed to sneak off with some of the early plans such that they could shit out a cheap inferior copy but that's not even half of what goes into the complete article.
>Also the risk of Russia capturing one and getting too close a look at it.
All this stupid fear of 'OMG Russia captures western weapons!' is getting really old and tiresome. Fail-35 is crap, it can't do anything russians and chinese haven't thought of yet, so them falling into the hands of russians and chinese would be of little consequence.
No, the real reason is that if this lemon turns out to be a lemon and gets swatted like 90% of the ukranian air force, then countries will stop buying it from the US.
At this point every inch will have been thoroughly documented by pilots, ground crew, engineers on TikTok.
>Why doesn't US give F-35 to Ukraine?
They afraid some Ukie pilot will sell one straight to Russia
80% : Plane is destroyed before taking off, loss of money and pride for 0 gains
15% : Plane is destroyed in air. Major blow to US MIC which is trying to sell this trash.
4% : Plane is destroyed and recovered by Russians. Even bigger blow to US MIC
Critical failure: Pilot is bribed by Russians and delivers the plane intact.
deport all neocons to their favorite country.
Because Ukraine aren't in Nato. Every piece of equipment, never beaten on the battlefield has been, by giving it to Ukraine. They've compromised a lot of hardware. While they are a relative army. They're not, nowhere near the same as a Western army, in training, capability and expertise. They've used a host of re ruits where turned to fodder and they've lost heaps of veterans. They're also completely corrupt, where hardware is going on the blackmarket.
They've lost most of their pilots. Training takes much longer. But it isn't the same capability, grids, synced into their telemetry. It isn't under Nato operational command.
But F35s are the current gen, it is being replaced, but until it does, nobody gives the newest equipment to a non permanent allie.
Finally it wouldn't make any real difference with the Ukraine. F16s won't. In the hands of a Military like Israel they beat current gen. Because it was a part of their command structure. Training, rank and file, expertise. So easy to upgrade from to F35s, they've been for decades.
Unlike training new recruits against veterans. Even you stuck a few foreign mercs into it. You're talking a battlefield where it's against oppositional veterans, and the systems to engage.
It wouldn't make a difference. It hasn't. Meanwhile most of Russian airpower hasn't been used, apart from certain support.
What a load of BS. Ukrainians are 100% better warriors with real war experience. Unlike NATO posers who sit in rear or fight vastly inferior sandnaggers. All soldiers who went through NATO training say it's completely useless on the front,
they will consider your army worse then theirs even when you will be putting your flag on their capitals
after all thats exactly what happened with your grandparents
western armies are better than yours because we have money to spend for it and most of them even get to where they need to go instead of funding the next wave of whores for zelensky party next sunday. meanwhile all you have is that retarded we wuz warriors nagger attitude
you post under the italian flag, a nation that didnt win a single fucking war. a naion that lost to ethiopia in 1800s, a nation that fared so bad against the austrians in a war where they also fought prussia, that they gave the land you requested to france because you didnt deserve it.
hungary and romania are the nly european countries that can rival you at the worst military peromance in the last 200 yrs
>we have money
nagger, you still live with your mommy, you don't have jackshit
>italian army
Lmao even
Better at dying. Better at degrading equipment that had never lost on the battlefield. Better at having no experience with the equipment gifted except to charge.
But seriously they have had no experience with it. None whatsoever. They have zero command structure into this topical system. It has evolved over decades. So all recruits go through a process of rank and file having the logistical support and coverage synced into the grids of a static command structure; Training, expertise, experience. Plus the logistical support, coms, radar, tactical, and operational command.
Last nobody gives anybody outside of permanent status, largely the above, their most recent systems. If they get compromised, it compromises their current ability from their own operational structures.
Ukraine aren't Nato despite some acquisition and command, they are not at the same level of other Nato Armies. So can argue they're achieving that status now. But by no means was it the same permanent systems, capability, expertise.
Despite of the training and support, they are not, fundamentally are not the same thing, despite of any presumption of valor.
Japan, South Korea, and Australia are getting F-35s, though, despite not being NATO
ANZUS was signed 2 years after NATO and is a similar treaty. Australia has had the US's back when NATO countries told them to fuck themselves, we're the real greatest ally.
>They're not, nowhere near the same as a Western army, in training, capability and expertise.
You might want to think that one over, pal. Aside from the US and Turkey, the UAF would decimate ANY NATO army as it is today.
You f.e. don't even have enough soldiers to fill Wembley stadium.
They've compromised a lot of hardware. While they are a relative army. They're not, nowhere near the same as a Western army, in training, capability and expertise.
Lmao. Knowing how to utilize a dildo doesn't make you more competent
you guys can’t operate the vehicles you have been given so far, so why waste an expensive jet. israelitelensky would probably sell it for some coke anyway
Despite of F-35 being quite ugly I really like that VTOL model. An additional engine for take off and landing looks really cool. Much better than Harrier's system with only one engine and vectored thrust nozzles.
Nice Yak-38 successor. It's a shame we stopped making those. Yeah I know it had shitty airframe but it still would be enough for simple stuff like bombing hohols.
F-35, F-16 and Abrams are still in production and ongoing export successes. The US doesn't want to sully their reputation in Ukraine. Hence the extreme stalling, feet-dragging and excuse-finding. They especially don't want to sully the F-35, it is being massively exported.
>Abrams are still in production and ongoing export successes
*new* abrams havent been made since 1992
>Sorry but you only get our deprecated hardware that we were replacing anyways.
this fucking israelite /k/ike line is pathetic
there is nothing "replacing" anything the west loses in this war. period
there are no factories
there are no metals
there are no chemical constituents
and on and on and on
>inferior version of f22 to keep the f22's advantages a secret and only in the hands of the american air force
the F22 has no helmet, cannot fire the US most important missiles, and has a shitty, single-direction looking radar that renders the stealth meaningless the moment its actually used
F22 is the biggest joke in all of aviation history, supported utterly and totally by media memes and tv shows
>give us this, give us that
Fucking israelites, Slavs and Shitskins.
Sorry but you only get our deprecated hardware that we were replacing anyways.
Still more advanced that Russia's Soviet era crap though.
Himars with GMLRs. JDAM ER. Storm Shadow. M777/Caesar/AS-90/M109A6/Pzh 2000/Krab with Excalibur. Switchblade and Phoenix Ghost. NASAMS, Iris-T, Patriot PAC-3 MSE, SAMP/T.
That's your "deprecated hardware" that you were replacing anyways? Some of it is bordering experitmental. And that's to name the few main ones, plenty of other 2000+ stuff.
The Military Industrial Complex doesn't like all their wunderwaffe getting exposed and nobody wanting to buy it. Russian tech has buyers lining up and so does Iran. Expensive, overengineered rubbish getting taken out by Ali Express drones isn't a great look.
The Ukrainian guy already listed stuff above. I'll just add that Zaluzhny stated that Russian electronic warfare capabilities are so vast that they can make Excalibur rounds ineffective and that Russia ROUTINELY bombs everything protected by Western AA.
Maybe they could be demolished, then it's a very dubious investment for potential buyers.
I agree should give both the F-35 and F-22
in addition to the other posts:
to give someone a sophisticated fighter jet you would also have to give them and train them in:
>ground support
>supply chain
>repairs
>how to fly the damn thing
>how to use weapon systems
>lots and lots of air time
>I think they rely on AWACS or something (sky kangs can correct me) for air support
I'm sure there's more.
Imagine giving someone a car to use and maintain who has never driven a car, but a million times more complex
give me a car, I like Bentley
>picrel
I'm sure you won't understand
support
chain
>>how to fly the damn thing
>>how to use weapon systems
Sure, aircraft is quite sophisticated. But some stuff is not that much different. Like anti-air.
>>lots and lots of air time
?
>>I think they rely on AWACS or something (sky kangs can correct me) for air support
This shit is flying around from the very beginning. Gives warning about Russian launches.
because then F35's mediocrity will be proven beyond doubt when Russians bring them down very easily
The F-35's primary feature (even more than stealth) is it's ability to share data with other NATO aircraft/systems (which Ukraine doesn't have).
Also, despite what a lof of retards here seem to believe, the West has been giving Ukraine used equipment ready for retirement or stuff found in stockpiles. Other countries that have already paid for them, are going to be pissed if they have to wait in line for models being made for Ukraine.
That's why.
>ability to share data with other NATO aircraft/systems (which Ukraine doesn't have).
Nonsense. Satellites, AWACS, Global Hawk drones are all scanning shit nonstop and provides intel to Ukraine. And vice versa Ukraine is feeding NATO all the info.
>Also, despite what a lof of retards here seem to believe, the West has been giving Ukraine used equipment ready for retirement or stuff found in stockpiles.
You are the actual retard, believing this. There's almost no taboo on what kind of weaponry to provide to Ukraine. Some of the stuff is pretty much experimental.
BUT, the stuff which is easy to lose and damage the image is not provided by the US. Like reaper drones or well, good old planes. On other hand EU cucks are encouraged to send anything, nobody gives a shit about them. I think we'll see Eurofighters rather than F-16s on the battlefield.
>provides intel
yes, but not in real-time, in your helmet. It has to be relayed to you and reacted to.
Time is of the essence when it comes to air operations.
>Point is 3rd world countries can afford AA that cucks 1st world jets for the most part
then explain why Syria has not afforded to buy these systems and move them to where they can strike down the IAF? just biding their time? come the fuck on.
Like I said, they don't have many missiles. You're not denying Israel wants more of Syria but can't take it because of a small S300 fleet. It's obvious which is more cost effective. Syria has maybe 1/1000th the defense budget of Israel. You sound like you just have a big gay irrational hard on your israeliteSA taxpayer boondoggles.
Israel isnt going deeper into any neighboring nation because, unless you consider israels allies, the planet thinks they are genocidal naggers at worse and simple murderers at best.
I dont have any loyalty to anything. IDC about "israeliteSA taxpayer boondoggles".
i care about facts and logic. that it. simple as.
sorry you cannot see that.
Bro, people don't know shit about the Golan. Israel absolutely could take much more without their reputation getting worse. We have already given Ukraine money the equivalent of hundreds of F35's. If they could change things, we'd use them. Russian AA is, dollar for dollar, much more effective than US jets.
>the West has been giving kraine used equipment ready for retirement or stuff found in stockpiles
this is the most pathetic /k/ike kope I have ever read
none of what was given was "extra" or "about to be replaced" its all out of production, the last of its kind, never to be replaced again.
europe has been demilitarized by your /k/ike logic, which is hilarious in and of itself
because we know you would give it to the russians as leverage in a cease fire. you wont get the latest gen ivan better work with what you get
AA missiles are just way deadlier and cheaper than jets in the current meta. Jets don't work against near peer rivals. Maybe they'll catch up after fighter jets lose the human pilot.
go play a video game and stfu
you dont know shit about fuck.
Funny how Israel snaps off just enough of Syria to avoid S300 range.....
No, Israel can attack certain targets in Syria due to Russia allowing it.
Israel's prime minister Benett once said that Israel should have good relations with Russia based on the fact that it can lock down all of IAF and destroy Israel's security.
>Funny how Israel
yet they still hit targets
and they havent been shot down.
your argument is that they arent flying into danger when they dont need to?
are you stupid?
Syria has the old stuff and not nearly as much as they need. Point is 3rd world countries can afford AA that cucks 1st world jets for the most part which was my original point. Israel would need to expose their airforce way more than they're willing to take more territory than just the Golan and we all know they want the whole country.
Videos of F-35 carcasses with Russian flags stuck in them would be a disaster from a commercial point of view.
>invincible wunderwaffe
in all fairness the pilot was descending way too fast, probably a diversity hire lmao
regardless of your opinion on the plane, some piggo selling it to the black market or some retard operator getting it shot down would be a PR disaster
besides a handful of wunderwaffes can't win a war, shit's not a movie
Because your pilots will just defect with them
because TKD
>Wouldn't it be good for PR and increase sales, if Ukrainians BTFOd Russians with F-35???
Yes it would. They know the exact opposite would happen.
>Almost like on purpose, after all the Leopard and Challenger footage...
Oh I see so you DO know what's going on. The USA no longer has a defense industry, it has been replaced with an elaborate embezzlement scheme.
that's why.
Because it is all marketing and it doesn't work as advertised.
Fuck off you're not even getting F-16's now. You fuckers will just sell it off or get it destroyed because your Leader is a military retard. No F-35 or sweet 16 for you-kraine
Because Ukr will lose.
1. Without international aid, your country will lose in a year.
2. F35 is fucking expensive and your country country doesn't have the infraestructure or the money or qualified personnel to maintain them.
3. You're not that important anymore. With or without Ukr as a buffer state, Russia's power will not go that far. Europe gets its energy from other sources. Russia is no longer important so Ukr existence as a buffer state does not matter anymore.
Have fun in the gulag.
+if russia gets ahold of the remains of an F35, they could reverse-engineer it. That would be terrible.
I'm curious as hell how well F-16s will perform there. Given there's only a limited amount of out dated models flown by fast tracked piliots it's inevitable many are lost but it will be fascinating to watch how much damage each one is capable of doing and how long it takes Russia ro counter them.
>sales
Bro, you’re not paying back shit. 2ndly, the US never gives its best toys to nations. Only old toys or modified versions that are based on old tech. This is why the Abrams that are given to other nations are M1A1Ks not M1A2 SEP V3s
It will get blown out of they sky. These are magical weapons from a Hollywood movie.
The Russians have a very dense and layered air defense and their own fighter aircraft are pretty decent.
The other thing too is that we don't have a wartime industry. We won't be able to keep up with the attrition that will take place.
Sending even several dozen of these won't change the outcome of war for you.
You are losing and losing quite badly.
Right now you are like Germany in late 1943 vs the Soviets.
You'll be lucky if you can get a cheeseburger out of us by this time next year.
Russian AWACS would vacuum up a shit ton of data and their next S-x00 would be able to target it. Bad news. The USA wants China/Russia's first taste of them if necessary to be as a surprise in a war.
because AA are far more advanced than any aircraft gen 4-5-7-1112 aircraft are only functional and superior against other planes.
you cannot beat physics and everything with mass will ALWAYS leave a spot on a radar... thats why you see cruise mssiles fail that often after a few flights.... the russians literally do not use calibrs anymore and when they do they get shot down, and thats why they do not use kinhzals that often because the AA systems will eventually figure them out... see hat happened to himars and the stormshadow... at first they were decimating everything... after a few months almost 99% are shot down.
>thats why they do not use kinhzals that often because the AA systems will eventually figure them out.
lmfao, no
a patriot will NEVER be able to take out a kinzhal
The biggest advantage of kinzhal is not a small radar footprint, it's the sheer speed of the missile that most if not all westoid AA cannot intercept
Ukraine should have just used the war bucks US gave to buy Gripens...
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You guys still have money left correct? Ukraine please don't tell us you were embezzling those war bucks. Only Israel can fuck us dry on embezzling so good day sir.
America doesn’t want Ukraine to win the war.
If the West wanted to win, it actually gave good weapons. All the West wants is a constant stalemate.