Over half the trans girls I have met have an abusive / extremely controlling cis / afab enby ex right before transition. It's extremely ubiquitous but doesn't get talked much about. So like, why do y'all think that is?
Why does this keep happening?
Over half the trans girls I have met have an abusive / extremely controlling cis / afab enby ex right before transition. It's extremely ubiquitous but doesn't get talked much about. So like, why do y'all think that is?
mine would have been but she said I wouldn't make a good girl one of the last times we spent were together in person and I repressed for another 10 years because I still valued what she said even after she cheated on lie to and emotionally and financially abused me
my theory is that amabs repressing being transfeminine exude a kind of weakness that attracts this type of person
because the dynamic that exists between cis people and trans people in some ways mirrors some of the dynamics that exist between men and women
as in, it can produce misogyny due to a gendered power imbalance
and imo often trans women are subjected to such misogynies before 'looking' like women. before coming out, even. or sometimes even before they themselves know they are trans. because these social dynamics are, in part, produced by imbalances arising from many moving parts. eg suggests it's because repressing trans women exude weakness. i would agree to an extent but suggest that this isn't something inherent, but something that arises because women are in various ways socialised to be demure, and i think actually that often goes for closet cases too. i think various social pressures are put on trans women pretransition which encourage a sort of 'weakness', a tendency to minimise oneself or be treated like a doormat, in a way usually (and incorrectly) assumed to only be a product of 'afab socialisation'
essentially i think that there is a sort of parallel to those socialising things in trans women, whether they are aware of their transness yet or not, and that it reproduces the same effect as other misogynies - it makes women more pliable, more demure, more controlled
>i think various social pressures are put on trans women pretransition which encourage a sort of 'weakness', a tendency to minimise oneself or be treated like a doormat, in a way usually (and incorrectly) assumed to only be a product of 'afab socialisation'
u r making my brain expand a little bit my dude
i sometimes worry i plaster this stuff on /tttt/ too often. /mtfg/ especially. i have so much to say on this stuff, a friend and I have been working on transfeminist perspectives on various things for a few years now lol
nah a dump like this is perfect for doing some kind of ad hoc dialogue or testing the conceptual waters in the middle of all the noise
I think there's also a very common social isolation aspect. It's very common for the trans girl to not have any other significant peer to peer relationships outside of the abusive relationship, but that's often already the case before the relationship started. Shame too.
true. i was in such a relationship actually. it was only in forming close friendships with other women that i was able to break out of it
but tbh it was the exact tendency to make myself small which led to me being isolated in the first place; the isolation is, in itself, a way in which this misogyny can manifest imo
yeah fr, i love bouncing this stuff off people here, it's a good way to like explore the different sides of it or test out ideas or whatever
>to avoid being the target of violence for effete behavior
this is so often at the root of it! a devaluing of femininities, and the way one perceives your body making such femininities hypervisible. and so we make ourselves small, so small that anyone can step on us
>those people are happy to weaponize misogyny against us to maintain their social standing.
absolutely, cissexuals fail us. i think in the case of afab cissexuals, they can hurt us almost more easily than cis men because of the conception of themselves as forever vulnerable and the conception of us as possessing some inherent capacity for harm. so the actual dynamic (in which we are the more vulnerable ones, often) is obscured
why going back to OP, is why this pattern of abuse is so common. it is hard to imagine a tranny, especially a closet case, as more vulnerable to this sort of misogynistic abuse
transmisogyny
>i struggle with unwanted male attention (which isnt frequent but is terrifying)
we should talk about this more at some point if you'd like to. wanna trade discords? if you're in the boomer tranny server i'm there 🙂
>can you recommend me some reading??
depends on how well read you already are! tbh, most of this stuff is things i have learned though a mix of life experience and yeah bouncing around thoughts around/writing essays with a friend
if you've got an understanding of like, the stuff in Whipping Girl or other entry level texts, that's all I've read too. my friend is better read than i am tbh.
im not actually but id love to be! JuneBun#2620
i'll add you rn 🙂
wait what
are you saying im fish
ty if so
huh it didn't work for some reason
feel free to add me instead
SaltySalt#2429
>transmisogyny
what you just described is actually misandry, because they view trans women as men, ie as predators by nature, and if they viewed them as women they would see them as similar victims instead, which is actual misogyny by presuming women are helpless children incapable of independent action
just thought you should know
what you are describing here is almost textbook transmisogyny
it is the interaction between transphobia and misogyny
in this instance we are both more likely to be subject to abuse, more likely to be pressured into making ourselves small
whilst also suffering the negative ramifications of transphobia in which we are never seen as vulnerable to such abuses
transmisogyny, not misandry
this whole "never seen as vulnerable or victims" thing you're on is something men go through as a standard
you're right that when it's applied to trans women it's transphobia because of treating them as male, but you're wrong that it's not misandry
you can admit an intersection of discrimination is true without misgendering anyone btw, if you're afraid I'm calling you a man or something
nah i could not care less about you calling me a man, i am secure enough in my womanhood to call myself one regularly even kek
i am not really sure what to say here, like sure you can quibble that this is some sort of sentiment that harms men being applied to trannies
but it reproduces misogyny when this sort of thing is applied to trannies; it is a social force which leverages a gendered power dynamic in which women are at the bottom of
and it has the effect of devaluing us relative to those at the top of that hierarchy - cis women, in this case
i think that gendered power dynamic is very clear misogyny
i guess i am just not really sure what you are arguing here, or to what ends.
I don't think most men are short straight femboys
you don't have to be a short femboy to be a male victim
I mean it's def more likely for a short straight femboy to be abused than for a chad[or even average height/ 6'0"] to be.
are you speaking from hard evidence or from superstition? because it's been known for awhile that domestic violence, for example, is largely gender neutral, and you can't be telling me these supposedly very rare femboys are also somehow a large enough demographic to represent 100% of abuse cases with a male victim and female perpetrator without speaking purely out of your ass
>are you speaking from hard evidence or from superstition? because it's been known for awhile that domestic violence, for example, is largely gender neutral, and you can't be telling me these supposedly very rare femboys are also somehow a large enough demographic to represent 100% of abuse cases with a male victim and female perpetrator without speaking purely out of your ass
They're going to get hurt more when they are abused, that's for sure.
every guy's body bruises the same regardless of muscle mass or height, that's a ridiculous assumption to state otherwise unless they have some kind of blood disorder, which also doesn't discriminate based on being "chad" or not
and if you're speaking about socially, wouldn't the more masculine guy be more likely to be harmed by social violence because they're more likely to be assumed as capable of physical violence?
To be clear, a large fraction of transbians go through a short straight femboy or just straight femboy stage.
That's very rare among cis-guys. Transbians mostly did not present as normal men pre-transition, despite what blanch would say. Therefore their experiences are not comparable to normal men's
i'd actually like to talk about this to you too if you don't mind, as a trans girl I actually really like reading about transmisogyny as well as the intersectional issues that trans women face compared to cis women
do you mind if I add you on discord?
i think this is entirely accurate. i was socialized in conflicting ways by my parents but what stuck was docility and subservience to avoid being the target of violence for effete behavior. i learned to mask mostly with meanness and deliberately being closed off (so i couldn't get hurt) and am still a auiet introvert. 99% of the time i freeze up and the other 1% i flee, it took me til like 30 something to learn to stand up for myself. and coming out as trans made that worse, i struggle with unwanted male attention (which isnt frequent but is terrifying)
women have always had compradors just like every other oppressed class and those people are happy to weaponize misogyny against us to maintain their social standing. and more than that just dont actively challenge it, just like male feminists dont effectively fight sexism beyond vague lip service.
its based. can you recommend me some reading??
You're a full of nonsense!
I've always hated fish and I've always ran them out of most of the queen bars I used to hang out in
Whatchu talkin' bout Willis?
What if you're completely malebrained and really didn't pick up any female socialization? I don’t mean this to be a takedown or your argument (I agree with it + have seen it a lot in my own life), I just wanted to insert my own experiences into this idea.
i think this is a sort of hypothetical that doesn't really play out in reality, i have yet to see a trans woman who didn't experience some sort of misogyny before she came out. it just seems to be such a common and near universal experience. i am willing to be proven wrong though
i suspect if you and i spoke enough about your life i could help you see some of the ways you might have also had these sorts of experiences
it's not really about malebrain/fembrain stuff, it's more about (imo) how society responds to perceived femininity in people it does not deem essentially feminine subjects (eg; pre transition trans women)
i agree with this, even before realizing i was trans id wear swim shirts because i felt uncomfortable showing my nipples. the only explanation for this is my brain subconsciously picking up on female socialization and then me knowing not to show them...? idk very weird
Yea I never understood how normal cis-het guys would just get fully naked and stare at each others cocks in the locker room.
I always used a stall and towel covering
Literally me, get out of my life wth
nice trips also my condolences hope your recovery is going better than mine
Long enough ago I just kind of cringe at the childish nature of those moments, I'll be alright. Best wishes babe, she wasn't right in the end
not going to get into the details of mine, way too painful, but vouch
dw anon it's a hard thing to talk about
I never had an abusive afab gf [though I have had afab gfs]
But I had an abusive gigapassoid mtf gf early in transition
…couldnt be miii…
i want to die
I sort of had one but it was just my mother who raped and molested me while I was a minor and kept acted creepily possessive while I was an adult instead of someone I at least agreed to date as an adult even if they hurt me
Women are just like that by default. Only trans women have a way out and eventually enough female sympathy to talk about it, while cis men are only gaslit when they talk about it and being told it didn't happen and women can't be abusive to men since they're privileged.
I'm a sadistic cis f with a trans gf and it literally just happened by luck. We met in an online game then met in real life and then started dating. The idea that this is some kind of trend is really weird to me.
Because afterwards you realize that having somebody else won't make you happy and transitioning, though you may fears that it'll lead to isolation, will still more likely lead to happiness than leading an inauthentic life to attract a partner.