Why did LDS spread to Europe but not FLDS?

There's one location in Southern Canada but it's not really in Europe and the rest are in the USA. Surprising because Euros may want to convert to Mormon for the polygamy factor which FLDS allows but mainstream LDS doesn't.

It was estimated to have 6,000 to 10,000 members residing in the sister cities of Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona; Eldorado, Texas; Westcliffe, Colorado;[25] Mancos, Colorado; Creston and Bountiful, British Columbia; and Pringle, South Dakota.[26] However, in recent years, membership has suffered due to purges by Warren Jeffs, and members leaving. There are also developing communities near Benjamín Hill, Sonora (south of Nogales in the state of Sonora);[27]:219[28] Ensenada, Baja California (south of Tijuana);[29][irrelevant citation] and Boise City, Oklahoma.[30] Members of the FLDS Church have owned machine shops that have sold airplane components to the United States Air Force and the Defense Logistics Agency; from 1998 to 2007 the receipts from these components totaled more than US$1.7 million.[31]

  1. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Honest question, what do you do with the extra men? Like obviously if you have a limited pool of people, not every man is going to be able to have 5 wives, so what do you do with them? Also how do you prevent incest and its various consequences? I'm all for more European births but these seem like fairly significant negatives.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      That's a good question. Plus FLDS has no limit on wives so theoretically a guy could have 100 wives there. In fact, some have had crazy numbers like 75 wives or 78 wives. Islam is polygamist too but limits it to 4 wives you buy a house for but this even causes issues in Islam.

      I don't think they care as much about preventing incest. I mean if one guy has 75 wives, you're gonna have a bunch of half siblings living on the compound and the gene pool gets too limited.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      IIRC the FLDS colonies in Mexico/Canada were mostly turn-of-the-20th-century polygamists seething that the LDS church banned polygamy and fled to the nearest places where they hoped they could operate undercover (and were mostly correct in that assumption); there's never really been much of a missionary effort by the FLDS for obvious reasons.

      They use them for cheap (often underage) labor in FLDS-owned businesses in construction, agriculture etc and then use the slightest pretext to kick them out
      >how do you prevent incest and its various consequences
      You don't; FLDS Mormons have some of the highest rates of genetic disorders in the US, maybe even worse than Amish and Ultra-Orthodox israelites (the highschool that Warren Jeffs set up had the highest per capita rate of students with learning disabilities in the entirety of Arizona).

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >he highschool that Warren Jeffs set up had the highest per capita rate of students with learning disabilities in the entirety of Arizona.
        Thats sad. This doesn't seem like a fertility model worth promoting.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          To them, it was a feature, not a bug and only after 2011 have they started to crack down on it. FLDS was obsessed with preserving certain bloodlines so this is why they encouraged relatives to marry so the specific bloodlines would be preserved. It's the same thing as what happened to the European royals like the Habsburgs.

          he quick answer for why this polygamous community has buried so many of its children is inbreeding, according to community members. Almost everyone here is some variation of cousin, and, until Warren was locked up and decided to put a hold on all marriages, most men and women were paired together in order to preserve certain esteemed bloodlines. Sisters married the same man in polygamous celestial weddings; brothers from one family married sisters from another (meaning their kids are double cousins). And, because this cult is so tight-knit and averse to strangers, the gene pool is rather limited.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        A crazy thing is they encouraged incest since the late 1800s in order to preserve certain bloodlines. It's the same thing as what happened to the Euro royalty in the past and they got blood disorders like hemophilia from it.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        This. Generally wives are determined based on social standing. If you're not a leader, friend of a leader, or looking like you'll be a leader, you won't get wives. And if you don't have wives, other men are getting the women so there will be none left for you. And they kick you out over trivial things at that point. I'd estimate at least half of men get kicked out.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The leaders will also, on a whim, restrict men from having sex with their wives and require them to have sex with one of the leaders instead, sometimes with the husband present.
          Despite this I'm sure LULZ will find a way to simp for them.

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          The leaders will also, on a whim, restrict men from having sex with their wives and require them to have sex with one of the leaders instead, sometimes with the husband present.
          Despite this I'm sure LULZ will find a way to simp for them.

          In the FLDS it is illegal to have sex with your wife if she's not menstruating.
          Here's an epic blog that goes deep into the recent history and doctrine of the FLDS.
          https://flds101.blogspot.com/
          >The leaders will also, on a whim, restrict men from having sex with their wives and require them to have sex with one of the leaders instead, sometimes with the husband present.
          For real? Where did you hear this?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            >For real? Where did you hear this.
            It's on Wikipedia with the reference being a former FLDS woman, so she could have made it up but given that the FLDS clearly functions primarily as a sex cult for the leadership, it's not far-fetched.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >so what do you do with them?
      Have them work for “the priesthood” until they’re considered worthy to take a wife by the community leadership. Marriages are essentially arranged.
      >Also how do you prevent incest and its various consequences?
      They get the occasional normie LDS member who believes the old ways were better to convert from mainline Mormonism, it’s the same reason why Sedevacantists exist.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think they got it all wrong, plus Euroshits are too busy bowing to their feminist overlords. That being said, the honest solution would be to make sure every man gets a wife without trouble so we don't have to see these gross demographic declines. The more men make the ultimate decision on who gets to reproduce the better off we are.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Historically it wasn't really a problem because they practice arranged marriage, this was intended precisely to PREVENT surplus males.
      Under Warren Jeffs and to a lesser extent his dad Rulon this changed, instead of responsibly arranging marriages for long term growth brides were basically being given out as a kind of payment for loyalty. Dudes at the top were amassing HUGE harems the likes of which not seen since the days of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young. Warren Jeffs kicked out literally hundreds of excess males,
      Also a lot of people don't realise that the FLDS are basically half cult, half nationwide construction company. The young guys are travelling all around America doing random construction projects to make the church money and expand new settlements, ideally they won't even have time to notice they're getting cucked, it's just the even slightly rebellious or otherwise problematic ones that get booted.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        Didn't Joseph Smith have twenty wives? I'm surprised it took that long for a social system that places no restrictions on the number of marriages to degrade into "Hey Budd, why don't you marry my seventeen year old daughter and I marry your sixteen year old daughter?" daughterswapping that the Jeffs devolved into

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          Joseph Smith had up to 40 so he had a ton, Warren Jeffs had a harem of 78 wives.

  2. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    FLDS are schismatics and considered radical by even solidly Conservative Mormons. Joining them is already difficult because they consider outsiders not born in their culture to be gentiles and are at best slow to trust them. Add a language barrier and multiple controversies on top of that and the FLDS not expanding much overseas isn’t surprising.

  3. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    LDS was spread to Europe because God told Joseph Smith to go out and preach the BoM, even unto the eastern countries.. Honestly, I think mainly the UK is where the apostles traveled to.
    The LDS were under constant oppression from state counties and the US government since the beginning because of the power/influence the prophet Joseph had over the masses; the governments and people in power were in constant fear of losing their control.
    Throughout the entirety of the LDS church, they were always being pushed out west because of this, and after Joseph was martyred, Brigham Young took and led the saints to the promised land (salt lake city).
    Brigham young wasn't the best president and the best person imo, and a lot of families broke off from the LDS religion because of the faults and biases from BY, but nevertheless, even 20 years after, he still fought for his people and wouldn't denounce his faith/principles to the oppression from the government. Wondering when it would stop, through negotiations they found they would have to denounce the law of plural marriage or they were to go to war against the US army.
    John Taylor succeeded Brigham after he died, and all the while still bearing oppression from the government, was blessed with the 1886 Revelation regarding the law of plural marriage and basically told the government to deal with it, and that he would not denounce anything. He died one year later, Wilford Woodruf succeeded and three years after that, denounced the faith/principles with his manifesto; thus ended the legacy of the LDS church and the practice of the law of plural marriage.
    Around this same time, Lorin Woolley (Aposlte and member of the council) spoke of the downfall of the church to all the members/families that still believed in the law, and told them to leave the church, and not to form another or a cooperative until the One Mighty and Strong should come

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      - This is where the FLDS religion comes from. Believing the same principles as the beginning of the mormon church, but didn't denounce anything.

      tl;dr
      FLDS were never an organized religion, and never had a real prophet or church.

      >t. flds member
      >1 dad 4 moms
      >42 brothers
      ama

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        FLDS are a specific church, it's not just the general term for fundie mormons tho they are the biggest fundie church.
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fundamentalist_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-Day_Saints

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        What was the most bizarre stuff you saw there? When did u left? Why? Excommunicated? How is hygiene there? Lots of inbred people or not?
        Would u go back?
        How was the contact with the outside world?

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        What was the most bizarre stuff you saw there? When did u left? Why? Excommunicated? How is hygiene there? Lots of inbred people or not?
        Would u go back?
        How was the contact with the outside world?

        I'm assuming you're talking about the Jeffs down in Hildale since it's all over netflix. I'm apart of the Kingston cult up in the valley, but I spend quite a bit of time down there.
        The netflix series Preaching Evil is pretty accurate, although a little dramatized, but overall covered probably about half of what Warren Jeffs was really doing down there.

        >What was the most bizarre stuff you saw there?
        I didn't see or notice anything bizarre since Warren was convicted in 2011 and most of his people are no longer brain washed into their cult ideologies now days. In fact, most individuals down there are quite worldly in terms of morals.. They swear, drink, smoke, fornicate, etc.. and they're in contact with the outside world through social media and tourism.
        AS far as bizarre? Idk man since I'm from a cult myself and I thought it was really neat to meet different people with the same ancestry and beliefs that we have. However I was there about 15 years ago to help them out when their city got flooded, and I found it odd that they all wore prairie dresses and had weird dogmas with certain colors, and also the young men in that group were certainly screwed as they were essentially kicked out at the age of 18 to preserve the women for the elite families (this is what they were telling me, and it happens to an extent in my group so I believe it)

        >How is hygiene there? Lots of inbred people or not?
        Honestly, if you went down there, you probably wouldn't be able to tell that they were apart of the Jeffs since most of them have completely adapted to the outside world and denounced all religion. There are still women and children with prairie dresses, that haven't denounced the faith and are still waiting for Warren to get out of prison.
        As far as inbred goes.. I know they practice incest since we do to an extent as well, but honestly speaking, I have never seen more good looking women in one place before, and the average height of men is 6'1

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          >since most of them have completely adapted to the outside world and denounced all religion
          Really now? I saw on some documentary that those that get kicked out fall pretty hard, since being nixed from the faith means that you are damned anyway. Any missionaries reach out to them?

          • 2 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah.. It's pretty difficult getting kicked out of something when it's literally all you know. They still believe in God; but organized religion is what they're not fond of.
            >any missionaries reach out to them?
            Possibly. FLDS religion were told not to go out to preach, but wait till the One might and strong should come. Only the Mormon church still send out missionaries.
            Like

            i went to college with someone who left the kingston clan, hes an amateur magician and works in finance now i think

            This individual who left our clan was picked up by some mormon family who took him in to help him through schooling

            i went to college with someone who left the kingston clan, hes an amateur magician and works in finance now i think

            BRO! I think I know who you're talking about. He was my best friend in primary school and I still talk to him on discord every once in a while. He's doing very well for himself now actually.
            bTW Most of everything he told you about us is probably a lie

            • 2 months ago
              Anonymous

              idk if i should say his name here but i only actually found out about his involvement with the kingstons because of a documentary i saw after i knew him. tbh he was painfully shy and awkward, but i liked him. we shared a class at UofU and he taught me how to do a fun trick with a calculator. in the doc he said that his mom and dad were half-siblings

              • 2 months ago
                Anonymous

                haha right on man. I like this post.

                %3BJohn
                Was it this calculator trick?

        • 2 months ago
          Anonymous

          i went to college with someone who left the kingston clan, hes an amateur magician and works in finance now i think

  4. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Have them work for “the priesthood”
    "Yes"
    >they’re considered worthy to take a wife by the community leadership
    "No!"

  5. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because Polygamy is a lot easier to hide in the middle of Alberta or Southern Utah than in jolly old London. Which isn't to say the British don't have cults just that they don't have polygamous cults. Land is cheaper in the USA, so it's easier to build your ever expanding Grover Hause for wives and kids. Can you imagine the amount of permits a British polygamist sect would need to house all their sex cult? It would be a legal and logistical nightmare.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Polygamy is 100 percent legal in London if you already have a legal polygamous marriage from another country.
      If you really want to have two wives all you need is to go to another country to get married

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Can you imagine the amount of permits a British polygamist sect would need to house all their sex cult? It would be a legal and logistical nightmare.
      Let me check... *pulls out calculator*... it'll cost around £86.3 million annually.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        kek, I think he does have a point though, even in 2022 I imagine it's much easier for someone to buy land in the middle of nowhere America and start doing pretty much whatever they wanted.
        There is no middle of nowhere in the UK, at least in England - you can't build a shed without the local council breathing down your neck.

  6. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    perhaps they don't take root in Europe because they are seen as bunch of crazy American cultists.
    and if you want to for what ever reason join a crazy religious group you already have the jehovas witnesses that have a much stronger ground game.
    the fact that is seen as a distinctly american thing doesn't help. Because the types of schitzos that join up with such a cult tend to be anti american in westen europe.

    I've seen a group of LDS "missionaries" at a small square in my city. And I'll describe my interaction with them.
    They looked clean dressed and all that but stood out as a sore thumb because no one local would dress like that.
    I sat down and had a coffee or two watching them and in about an hour and a half no one so much as took a flier from them.
    Their Dutch wasn't very good but it's the first time I've spoken with an american in Dutch so kudos for that.
    But their arguments where clearly drilled into them and they couldn't really adapt to new lines of reasoning something the local jehovas witness can do.
    They where how every very badly prepared to handle the lines of questioning that most normies would ask them. You know the few thing as local might know about them, stuff from that one south park episode and polygamy. But they where well prepared to get down and talk theology. But it's Western Europe you aren't going to find a lot of people that want to talk about that. And when it came to some of the internal working of the LDS that someone interested might find online like temple rituals and weird handshakes to get into heaven (that are pretty much occult and a big risk of possession) they froze up not in the "we have been found out" but the "I have no idea what you are talking about" kind of way.
    I offered them to come attend mass at a local church and have a little debate with the SPXX priest but they declined it right away.
    Very friendly and happy to finally have someone to talk to.
    3/10 you get better convo from a sede

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      Imo the LDS do not help themselves by using 19 year olds as missionaries. They only know so much about theology and their own church history. I talk to missionaries every opportunity and I consistently get the vibe they don't understand the psychology of a nonbeliever, they're looking for a very specific type of nondenominational Christian that's open minded to a fault, which is basically nonexistent in Europe.
      The JW missionaries are always chilled out old locals, and frequently their suits have a lot more drip than the Mormon uniform. I've never met a Mormon that wasn't a missionary but you better believe JWs are everywhere in Britain, they're doing something right.

      • 2 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Imo the LDS do not help themselves by using 19 year olds as missionaries. They only know so much about theology and their own church history. I talk to missionaries every opportunity and I consistently get the vibe they don't understand the psychology of a nonbeliever, they're looking for a very specific type of nondenominational Christian that's open minded to a fault, which is basically nonexistent in Europe.
        As true as this is, a major part of being a missionary is to just get people to hear the basics and put a Book of Mormon in their hand, mang times this is enough. Another part is the role that older members play once missionaries find people to teach. Missionaries can gather in interested people and then they work with members who are normal people to introduce and befriend them so that they can have a permanent person in the community that will help be their guide. Missionaries find 24/7 will members help retain converts.

  7. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    If I was going to be a Mormon I would follow those guys who are literally Joseph Smith's children instead of just some guy called Brigham

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      The CoC are kinda gay tho, it's more like a normie Christian church but with the Book of Mormon than the polygamist desert freemasons on the road to apotheosis we all know and love. Joseph Smith III was basically a puppet for Emma Hale anyway putting the retcons she always wanted into Mormonism like denying polygamy ever even existed.
      If I wanted to LARP as an Israelite in the 19th century there's no question Brigham Young was the way to go, dude's basically Moses in a suit.

    • 2 months ago
      Anonymous

      They abandoned it long ago. JS3 barely knew his father and he was mostly under the control of his bitter mum Emma that hated Brigham for being too based. Brigham was actually in the priesthood line of authority which in Mormonism is actually what counts.

  8. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    https://www.cageyfilms.com/2018/03/from-the-department-of-what-the-hell/
    The British were so freaked out by Mormon polygamy that there was a whole genre of silent films depicting Mormons enslaving young English women.

  9. 2 months ago
    Anonymous

    Europeans are too intelligent to follow cults.

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