Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor?


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Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor instead of attacking USSR and helping Germany by interfering with the Lend-Lease? Was there any more crazy move during WWII?

  1. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because they knew war with the other great powers over resource flow was inevitable and Pearl harbour was seen as the best and most decisive way to knock the US navy out of the equation. It also makes a lot more sense when you remember that the attack was also meant to destroy the American aircraft carriers which luckily dodged the attack by being out at sea.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      This, the idea was to use the American recovery time to grab most of the Pacific and dig in so thoroughly that the Americans wouldn't want to or be able to commit the massive human and materiel resources needed to dig them out.

      Also the German-Japanese alliance was one of convenience and saw little actual cooperation or coordination, much like modern China and Russia they shared some geopolitical objectives and while generally making overtures they viewed each other almost entirely from a detached "how can I use this state to my advantage" perspective. The USSR was largely irrelevant to the Japanese aims and operations in China.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The USSR was largely irrelevant to the Japanese aims and operations in China.

        Funny how virtually the entire Japanese presence in China wound up being virtually wiped out by the Soviets rather than China or the Western Allies.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          There are about as many tanks in that entire picture as Japan had in all of Khalkin Gol

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah. I don’t get this. Same with Germany. Muh we had to attack.

      Why not enjoy your big but somewhat poorer country? Japan could have kept most of its empire and Germany could be at 1939 borders.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        muh Lebensraum!

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        there entire ideology was just muh clay and devoting everything to making massive militaries for looting, in Japans case it was even worse since the regular government somewhat attempt to reign in the military only to then get assassinated by the young officers, then said young officers dragged them into a war with china which soon spiraled out of control

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          so they were already at war with China and had to drag US into it?

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            they been at war with china for years by that point, hell part of the reason why relations with the US soured for Japan was because of that war in China

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        They would have gotten embargoed and south africa'd into irrelevance. Time was not on their side.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        You think Japan deprived of metals and petrol could have just kept Manchuria and even Korea? It would've been Vietnam 2.0 in 1950s.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Why not enjoy your big but somewhat poorer country?

        >be (semi) fascist
        >horrible economy
        >choose between endless wars of conquest or relative poverty in peace
        >decide on relative stabilty
        >no one likes you but you don't have entire world out to kill you
        >live three decades longer than your peers

        t. franco

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Japan felt it was being boxed in and had to act. I think the thought process was roughly like this:
        >as we can see from the great war, wars in the future will be total in nature
        >japan it not equipped for such a war and does not have a large resource base like the US or USSR nor a vast colonial empire to draw resources from like France or the UK
        >attempt to expand resource base by annexing Manchuria, accidentally get involved in a total war in China when they wanted a limited war in northern China
        >US embargoes Japan
        >things aren't looking good we can't continue to support the war and we can't pull out
        >the Europeans are distracted with Hitler, why don't we seize their colonies in SEA and use the resources there to finish the war in China
        >what about the US, won't they intervene?
        >we'll do a surprise attack on them, this should knock out their pacific fleet for a couple years giving us time to dig in and prepare for them
        They knew it was risky, but felt it was the best of all the options they had.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          >but felt it was the best of all the options they had.
          there was a lot of gaslighting during WWII. it seems like Japanese might have been victims of intentional disinformation

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            I think this might be partially due to the fact that japan had been repeatedly snubbed in the past decades, leaving them feeling that they could only rely on themselves.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      The aircraft carriers were not the primary target of pearl harbor. No nation understood yet that battleships were over and aircraft carriers were the new capital ship. Also most of the japanese high command and government did not think they could win against USA. Its just they would be killed by their people if they didnt start the war.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        more fairytales, wasn't their emperor God?

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          We have letters retard, from people in power to ruling oligarchs asking how to get out of this. We have loads of war planning docs, saying if everything doesnt go perfectly followed by the US throwing the towel everything is fucked. We have the dead bodies of previous PM's who were too "soft" on expansionism. The Meiji restorations oligarchs created a death cult that had never existed before in japan(divine emperor, instead of just descended from gods), And its made up code of bushido. This worked great for controlling the country and disbanding the old order of daimyo's and samurai. But they made a monster they couldnt control. Just read the wiki page on the Kwantung army for the best example. Japanese oligarchs and civilian leaders and many military leaders all thought going to war with the US would get their shit kicked in.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            and now I am driving a Nissan?

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >No nation understood yet that battleships were over and aircraft carriers were the new capital ship
        i think the Japs understood that when they sent a huge wave of carrier-launched planes to BTFO all the US's battleships as they floated in harbor, bud

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      What would have happened if they reached their goals destroying the carries?

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Only 2 carriers could have been at Pearl Harbor at the time, the Lexington and the Enterprise. If they got torpedoed, they would've been raised and repaired like most of the battleships that were also "destroyed."

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Pearl harbour was seen as the best and most decisive way to knock the US navy out of the equation.
      Threadly reminder that almost no one in the Japanese Navy (including Nagumo, who actually carried it out) actually wanted to launch the attack, and Yamamoto only got it through by threatening to resign.

  2. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    I guess they were more interested in their own goals and needs than helping Germany. Selfishness, basically.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      /thread

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Not try sending troop to Nationalist Spain in 1937 instead going war with China.

  3. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    We were providing material support to their enemies, and we left ourselves wide open for a crippling attack.

    The real question is why did we let it happen after we found out ahead of time it was coming?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Being a Democracy, your Gov needed an excuse to convince the public they should go to war. American public is usually quite self serving and apathetic about anything that happens outside your country, so letting yourselves be attacked (Pearl, 9/11, etc) helps get the voters motivated, off their butts and behind their 'leaders' in a fight outside your border.

  4. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >thinking japan and Germany gave a shit about each other beyond sharing enemies
    Nguni

  5. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >This oil embargo is crippling us
    >We'll probably run out in the next year, two tops if we don't do something immediately about it
    >There is oil within seizing range, over in Indoensia, but America is very upset with us and is likely to attack us if we seize another European colony; especially since the oil embargo is proximally caused by us seizing the last European colony.
    >So we need to do something about the Americans to seize that oil.
    >But wait, there's a solution!
    >What if we take our overstretched army, attack the USSR where we'd have numerical parity, at best, seize none of the primary resources we so desperately need, so we can force the Americans to spend a little more money enlarging the Persian Corridor to give aid to the USSR!
    No OP, your plan is fucktarded, as are you.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >your plan is fucktarded
      what did the Japanese accomplish by attacking Pearl Harbor other than providing a justification for US to join the war effort?

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        They damaged the U.S. pacific fleet. They also, with their simultaneous strikes on the Phillipines and Wake island, prevented interference as they overran the DEI, and seized that oil they needed to keep their economy and war in China going.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhic_victory

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Pyrrhic victories beat losing immediately. Which is what Japan gets by attacking the USSR in 1941.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              the year Germany attacked? instead they waited 6 months and attacked ...... a US territory as Hitler was losing the battle of Moscow? talk about lack of coordination

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Do you have a reading problem, or a thinking problem? Japan is under a sword of damocles in the form of not having essential raw materials to keep their industrial economy going with the U.S. oil embargo. Attacking the DEI (which will bring the U.S. into the war) solves the issue, or at least postpones it and trades it for a different one. Attacking the USSR does nothing to solve the issue.

                The only "logic" (and it's pretty idiotic logic) behind attacking the USSR is to state that Japan should subordinate its own interests to Germany's interests, in the hope that Germany can somehow prevail and become a world hegemon (unlikely) and they can sign up for the same kind of prison bitch experience that Hitler's other satellites got.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                So your argument, professor, is the axis wasn't that coordinated and they were not looking for each other interests even to their own detriment? In that case would it be unreasonable to consider a possibility of their army top brass being subverted into the attack instead of helping struggling Hitler in Moscow by attacking USSR? Lost in translation? USSR vs. USA same thing?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Japan cannot wage a war against the USSR without oil and iron. They no longer have access to that after being shitty in the pacific. If they declare war on the US, they get access to that. Their other option is end the war give all the land back, and wait for the emperor cults to shoot them all in the face, then the resulting riots were the assassin is declared a good boy by the people who din do nuffin, and the new government has to give them a tiny sentence. Followed by the new government declaring war on the US to not get shot in the face.

                and now I am driving a Nissan?

                I drive a kia stinger. But the same autism that made japan attack the USA in WW2 is what makes them so good at manufacturing things.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                doesn't change the fact not helping Hitler was a big mistake, he was about to take Moscow. Your explanation, while impressive for a fifth grader, fails to explain that.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Explain how Japan was supposed to coordinate an attack with Hitler to help him out? While at war with China that is bleeding them of resources.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                As Hitler is losing in Moscow, Japan attacks US to provide for a timely insertion of US into the WWII theatre. Doesn't it strike you as too convenient? Nothing to see here?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh so your a conspiracy nut? Got it. Discarded opinion.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                this doesn't work anymore, I am afraid. I also find your insistence on nothing-to-see-here bravado quite, say, interesting

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Got any proof of your claims other than circumstantial evidence?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                > any proof
                https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/clip/29137973/chicago-tribune/

                A confidential report prepared by, the joint army and navy high command by direction of President Roosevelt calls for American expeditionary forces aggregating 5,000,000 men for a final land offensive against Germany and her satellites. It contemplates total armed forces of 10,045,655 men. One of the few existing copies of this astounding" document which represents decisions and commitments affecting" the destinies of peoples thruout the civilized world, became available to The Tribune today. It is a blueprint for total war on a scale unprecedented in a least two oceans and three continents, Europe, Africa, and Asia. The report expresses the considered opinion of the army and navy strategists that " Germany and *her* European satellites cannot be defeated by the European powers now fighting" against her.', Therefore, it concludes, " if our European enemies are to be defeated it will be necessary for the United States to enter the war, and to employ a part of its armed forces offensively in the eastern Atlantic

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >believing the media
                Lmao

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                what is this supposed to prove? The militaries job is to plan ahead. And everyone knew roosevelt wanted to intervene even at the time. Nobody forced japan to declare war on the US and allies, much less forced germany to declare war on the US.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Nobody forced japan to declare war on the US and allies
                This is true but I find Japanese stupidity suspicious. They are normally not that dumb ...

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >They are normally not that dumb
                What do you base this off?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >about to take Moscow
                he was nowhere near close to taking moscow, at best some scouting units were nearby but nobody in German high command seriously considered attacking the city at that time since they were already stretched thin, not helped by the fact even before the unit shift (people forget Stalin still reinforced the area Japan could have possibly attacked even during Hitlers invasion) the area was heavily defended so any attack would be a failure in the best case scenario

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >doesn't change the fact not helping Hitler was a big mistake
                No it wasn't and you are a moron.

                >he was about to take Moscow.
                No he wasn't and you are a moron.

                >Your explanation, while impressive for a fifth grader, fails to explain that.
                Your premises are incorrect and you are a moron.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >doesn't change the fact not helping Hitler was a big mistake, he was about to take Moscow
                By early Dec 1941, German attacks on Moscow had already failed and the Soviets were starting their counterattack.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                perfect time to get US involved

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >So your argument, professor, is the axis wasn't that coordinated and they were not looking for each other interests even to their own detriment?
                No. That is not my argument. Learn to read. My actual argument, is that Japan attacking the USSR is both self-destructive and futile. And even if it worked, which is tremendously unlikely because the risks are huge and the payoff is tiny, all they get out of it is more or less permanent vassal status to Germany, which is a terrible deal for them.

                >In that case would it be unreasonable to consider a possibility of their army top brass being subverted into the attack instead of helping struggling Hitler in Moscow by attacking USSR?
                What the fuck are you even trying to say?

                >USSR vs. USA same thing?
                I can't remember anything equivalent in the U.S. USSR relationship. At worst you could say the Americans prioritized the needs of the moment over longer-term issues by giving a tremendous amount of aid to a country that would become a rival to them. IT's not like they were shooting themselves in the foot to provide a token bit of help. The closest thing I can think of to that was the proposed Operation Sledgehammer (A 1942 invasion of France) which was shelved for a reason.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Japan attacking the USSR is both self-destructive and futile
                attacking US was not?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                It traded certain immediate destruction for merely probable destruction a few years down the line. Morally indefensible, but there's a glimmer of logic to it which is totally absent in the attack the Soviets plan.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                people who commit seppuku when they fail, were scheming so badly, lol

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Pearl harbor was not a pyrrhic victory retard. a Pyrrhic victory is just an extremely close one. One you can potentially not afford again. Pearl harbor was a normal victory that kicked off a war japan could not win.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      There was a lot of oil in Manchuria but Japan failed to survey it.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      > but America is very upset with us and is likely to attack us if we seize another European colony
      How do you know that?
      They probably wouldn't have done anything. Americans overwhelmingly didn't want to get involved in the war until Pearl Harbor.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Americans overwhelmingly didn't want to get involved in the war until Pearl Harbor.
        In 1940 Americans re-elected the pro-war candidate FDR over another pro-war candidate Wilkie. There was no meaningful isolationism in America at the time.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        That is simply not true. http://ibiblio.org/pha/Gallup/Gallup%201941.htm

        >Interviewing Date 8/21-26/41

        Survey #245-K Question #13

        Should the United States take steps now to keep Japan from becoming more powerful, even if it means risking a war with Japan?

        Yes................................ 70%

        No................................ 18

        No opinion......................... 12

        You'll note that this is before Pearl Harbor. American isolationist sentiment is vastly overblown in pop media, and by the middle of 1941, you had majorities of people polled expressing support for joining the war against both Germany and Japan.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          https://chicagotribune.newspapers.com/clip/55111376/chicago-tribune/
          Looks like polls were used to shape opinions for quite some time

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            meds

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              a front page of a newspaper in 1941, in 2022 ..... meds ....

  6. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    because by that point they needed oil instead of anything they could get in Siberia, which didn't even have a good chance of going well to begin with, so might as well start an opening attack for the best chance at victory

  7. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Aryan genes

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Aryan genes
      and other related BS

  8. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >instead of attacking USSR and helping Germany by interfering with the Lend-Lease?
    Why and what would they benifit from doing that?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_powers

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Japan had no idea Barbarosa was even a thing. It was just a surprise to them as much as it was the Soviets.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          by the time the Pearl Harbor attack happened Hitler wasn't doing so well in the battle of Moscow

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Which is part of what killed any remaining interest in attacking the USSR.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              yeah, Hitler is getting his ass whipped in Russia let's perform a kamikazi attack in US. Sounds like a plot from the movie 1941 by Spielberg

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Axis_powers
        post war myth

  9. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Because the ones who wanted to attack Siberia where executed and the the ones who want to go for the South dominated the government

  10. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    They didnt
    It was a false flag

  11. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    there was some fighting, but then Germany and Soviets announced non-aggression pact, japan concentrated southward, and when germany attacked ussr japan had non-aggression pact with ussr and was occupied on other fronts.

    Had Germany and Japan
    actually worked together....

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      seems like the problem was discounting the possibility of US involvement

  12. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    the muttdogs were sitting there. you think there's any other appropriate reaction to muttdogs other than killing them?

  13. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Gambling addiction, kept doing heckin sneak attacks, punching above their weight class and winning.

  14. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >ctrl+f
    >khalkhin gol
    >0 results
    lmao.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      > ctrl+f
      > Kantokuen
      > 0 results
      lmao.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      This. Real brainlet hours around here.

  15. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor instead of attacking USSR
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol
      it was before USSR was attacked by Germans, a lot of things changed in the meantime

  16. 8 months ago
    Anonymous
    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Is it kino LULZ?

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        a must see

  17. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet, but don't forget about the divided factions within Japan's military. The Army and Navy had completely different war goals. Regardless of where they put their efforts, their focus was not as strong as it could have been if they were more focused on a single war goal.

  18. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >instead of attacking USSR and helping Germany by interfering with the Lend-Lease?
    Japan and Germany's alliance was always out of convenience rather than any commitment towards each other. Japan had little to nothing to gain by attacking the USSR. the Russian far east had little surveyed resources, small population, and little industry. At best, they could have established some kind of buffer between themselves and the European powers.

    Also keep in mind that by this point Japan had already fought multiple skirmishes against the USSR and had lost miserably. In a hypothetical two front war, the USSR could've held them off, even with just the smaller force they kept in the far east.

    >Why did Japan attack Pearl Harbor
    Japan geographically was a small, resource poor, low population, less industrialized island. They fundamentally did not have the capacity to fight a long and drawn out total war. Because of this, Japan's foreign policy post-Meiji had been centered on the principle of limited engagement. Fight a limited conflict and decisively achieve your objectives early on so that it's more in your enemy's interest to negotiate than escalate the conflict e.g. Russo-Japanese war.

    Through a series of internal stumblings, what was supposed to be a limited conflict in China had drawn out into the exact kind of total war they had been avoiding for so long. It became clear that without cutting aid to China or resolving their resource crisis, total victory was impossible. Japan was reliant on the US for fuel and as a result of the war in China, the US had begun to limit trade with Japan. The only option for Japan at this point was a strike on the lightly defended and oil rich southern pacific.

    Japan hoped that if they could deal enough damage quickly enough (pearl harbor + invasions) and dig-in to defend their gains, they could convince the US that negotiation would be preferable to total war.

  19. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Why are Asians simultaneously both the dumbest and smartest people on earth?
    This is one of life’s greatest mysteries.

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