Why did bronze age uralics in Scandinavia leave no remains? Neither genetic nor material.

Why did bronze age uralics in Scandinavia leave no remains? Neither genetic nor material.

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They literally weren't even there, it's a psyop.

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They did leave dna behind, and the finnic language

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Yes, in the iron age they did these things.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Yeah, in 500 AD lmao.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        BolshoyOleniOstrov is from 1500-1400 BC.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Not in Scandinavia.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It is in scandinavia

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Dumbo.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I consneed

            So basically, Indo-aryans predate uralics in Scandinavia by quite a bit.

            There were no indo-aryans in scandinavia, ever. Sintashta and andronovo come from the eastern edge of cwc which was in russia

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Russia is EVROPEAN and valid.

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because there weren't any Uralics in Bronze Age Scandinavia.

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    because they weren't in scandinavia in the bronze age

  5. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Never existed. It was a cope made by browns who couldn’t accept that Whites were exceptional even in prehistory.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >Whites were exceptional even in prehistory.

  6. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    there are atill saamis living in middle of norway, tf you talkin about homie

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Iron age migrants.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        so they bffo'd indoeuropeans? or no one lived there?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          there was IE in the balts and S/SW Finland. Latter seemingly very low population density.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Scandinavians were present first in large areas of the ''native'' sami land yeah. They didn't go as far inland in the mountains so maybe the Sami came there before but especially on the Norwegian coast they went up very far and probably arrived in some areas even in Northern sami first

  7. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >bronze age
    >uralics
    Never existed. They were still chink chionging in Northern China and came to Europe in late Iron Age.

  8. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Once again, not in Scandinavia. Those cowards waited for the NBA collapse to even attempt migrarion, and only in the iron age would they have real settlments.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      makes sense, because it was a lot warmer in scandinavia during the NBA, the cooling of the weather is what caused the majority of germanics to start moving south.

  9. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    So basically, Indo-aryans predate uralics in Scandinavia by quite a bit.

  10. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    What about the Finns and the Sami?

  11. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Because it's 3500 years ago. They've barely found evidence of Vikings and that's just 1000 years ago.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Wtf are you on about? There are hundreds of runestones in Scandinavia.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Runestones =/= Vikings.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          moron, many of them were placed there by norse in the viking age.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The viking age was 1300-1000 ago, not 3500

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You said there was barely any evidence of vikings which is nonsense. Further more, there are plenty of Nordic Bronze Age remains in Scandinavia. Frick ton of bronze and carvings. Which are thousands of years old.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That wasn't me kek
            I don't even think we have little evidence of vikangs

  12. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Uralics were not there yet, but rather the Paleo-Laplandic EHG remnant population. Sami only reach there and replace them in like the Middle Ages.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >EHG
      They might have been genetically quite EHG but their nganasan would have been their cultural backbone probably.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Why? The Paleo-Laplandic substrate in Samic languages is unlike anything else we know of.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          I just doubt it because EHG were literally R1b/b and would sire the indo-europeans.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I don't think we have pre-Sami Y-DNA from that area, they could've been R1.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Surely then this substrate would be similar to indo-european? It's more likely a SHG remnant than EHG.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            SHG themselves are paternally EHG, it might be related to Indo-European distantly but likely diverged enough that it couldn't be recognised via traditional means.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >SHG themselves are paternally EHG,
            No they are not, they are I2 mostly with one single pre-I1. They had WHG fathers.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Ok then, then it's possible it was a WHG language, but we lack the information to determine definitely at the moment

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >EHG
            >r1b
            No, and if anyone was it was through rape by WHGs
            Same way an EHG ended up with j2

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Many EHG were literally R1b/R1a. How do you think Corded got their R1s?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Many EHG were literally R1b/R1a.
            Source

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >During theNeolithicand earlyEneolithic, EHGs on the Pontic–Caspian steppe formed theYamnaya culture, after some admixture withCaucasus hunter-gatherers(CHGs).[6]The genetic cluster formed from this admixture is known asWestern Steppe Herder(WSH). Populations closely related to the people of the Yamnaya culture are supposed to have embarked on amassive migrationleading to the spread ofIndo-European languagesthroughout large parts of Eurasia.
            >The EHG male ofSamara(dated to ca. 5650-5550 BC) carriedY-haplogroupR1b1a1a*andmt-haplogroupU5a1d. The other EHG male, buried inKarelia(dated to ca. 5500-5000 BC) carried Y-haplogroupR1a1and mt-haplogoupC1g
            >They suggested that EHGs harbored mixed ancestry from Ancient North Eurasians (ANEs) and WHGs. The people of the Yamnaya culture were found to be a mix of EHG and a "Near Eastern related population". During the 3rd millennium BC, the Yamnaya people embarked on a massive expansion throughout Europe, which significantly altered the genetic landscape of the continent. The expansion gave rise to cultures such as Corded Ware, and was possibly the source of the distribution of Indo-European languages in Europe.[8]

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            ok

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Wikipedia don't understand archeogenetics. This mixture is likely older than that. Newest studies confirm that a EHG/CHG foragers lived in the vicinity of Don River. It's something that clearly predate Yamnaya.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No they are right on this one. ANE clearly is the grandfather of Indo-europeans, and their sons (EHG) would spread it, although further diluting the ANE with CHG and EEF. This makes perfect sense if you look at genetics today. North yuros (celts,nords,slavs) peak at 20% ANE. It's a done deal.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No. ANE is too old to be a father of Indo-European. ANE could be ancestral to it, but it fathered many other languages, including other EHG related languages that went extinct.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >No. ANE is too old to be a father of Indo-European
            Reading comprehension. GRANDFATHER. EHG were up to 79% ANE and they spread it. This is facts. Your anatolian theory was debunked.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Nobody goes with Anatolian hypothesis anymore though. Southern Arc hypothesis is where aDNA and archeology point at, even linguistics

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            t. Hardvard troony

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >genetics is le bad when it refutes my fantasies
            Cope

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You still haven't laid out any genetic proofs.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Mathieson et al 2015 falsified the theory that Anatolian entered through the balkans
            Reich 2018 (speech) falsified Sintashta and Andronovo moving into india
            Southern arc paper apparently provides further evidence, this time directly about Anatolian

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            CHG were not PIE. They are Caucasian Khabib types.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            And? This has nothing to do with the steppe hypothesis being raped by aDNA which tests the claims it makes

            You are literally splitting hairs. ANE came into Europe from an eastern expansion that would replace most european haplos with R1. EHG had lots of ANE and R1. Samara being ancestral to some ancient PIE is very likely and genetically consistent unless you are a CHGay who believes EHG men fricking CHG women had their sons learn their mother's tongue.

            R1 was already into europe without ANE

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >R1 was already into europe without ANE
            So? Q is in Sweden. Fact is the most relevant and alive R lineages came with ANE.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Not really, most r1b in europe cannot be linked to yamnaya or cwc

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Yes they can, moron. Early Cwc was R1a And R1b.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Different clades
            >it is currently not possible to directly link Yamnaya, CW, and BB groups as paternal genealogical sources for one another, particularly noteworthy in light of steppe ancestry’s suggested male-driven spread and the proposed patrilocal/patriarchal social kinship systems of these three societies
            Papac et al 2021
            I swear haploBlack folk are all low iq

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The modern west European R1b clade is downstream from CWC R1b

            Yamnaya and CWC are the two with incongruent R1b clades.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Modern west european R1b comes from WHG-admixed EEFs
            Cope and seethe

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            moron lmao. WHG were I2.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Dumb moron
            Ancient Rome: A Genetic Crossroads of Europe and the Mediterranean
            The Arrival of Steppe and Iranian Related Ancestry in the Islands of the Western Mediterranean
            Ancient Genome-wide DNA from France highlights the complexity of interactions between Mesolithic hunter-gatherers and neolithic farmers
            WHGs with R1b
            And even 0% steppe Nuragics with R1b
            KYS

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You must be absolutely moronic buddy. R1b in "WHG" is exclusively from EHG.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You haven't read the studies, have you? The location with r1b has no EHG dna, it's in switzerland
            Moron go read the papers, they even have maps with pie charts so your 10 year old brain can grasp the information better

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Oh you're talking about the swiss outlier. As already explained, extinct dead outlier lineages do NOT disprove my overall point of alive and healthy ANE related lineages dominating Europe.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You can't trace any r1b fron europe back to ehgs, especially any ane population

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            iron gates and villabruna are EHG shifted.

            the non-steppe neolithic farmers with r1b are all r1b-v88, which isn't the ancestor of modern european r1b (and happens to come from Ukraine).

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Villabruna isn't, see Rivollat 2020

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Almost all WHG have ANE ancestry. R is from ANE, no doubt about it.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Rivolatt actually illustrates it out too. It's shifted further than WHG-proper.
            https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2016/05/villabruna-cluster-near-eastern-migrants.html

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's right in the middle of samples who don't have ehg, check the qpadms
            Unless you want to insinuate that somehow all whgs, includings in ireland, had ehg somehow, and after ehg receiving 1/3 whg

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I checked the supplementals, the study doesn't try to model Villabruna
            >Unless you want to insinuate that somehow all whgs, includings in ireland, had ehg
            Yes, I think they all have some AG3 related ancestry that isn't present in other HG like, say Aurignacian or Loschbour.
            It's also the simplest explanation for why v88 is in Europe that early.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Once again, Yamnaya is a term I have never used here. I continue using CWC. Competition between R1b and R1a was massive and they killed each other off several times. Doesn't mean they weren't ANE grandsons both of them.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            EHG had diverse Y-DNA. R1a, R1b, Q, J1, I2. The term EHG should be abandoned, it's way too vague. There was a cline going from EHG to WHG with various admixture proportions.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Correct. But the EHG who spread Indo-european languages were R1 and had lots of ANE.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            EHG didn't speak IE, otherwise we would know about it since 7000bce

            Aegean and balkan farmers had EHG instead of WHG, see the 2021 study on neolithic-chl europe with EEFs and HGs
            No IE evidence there

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Then who did, genius? R1 EHGs ancestral to ANE is the best bet we got. Unless you got a better theory?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Southern Arc. Literally nothing else adds up. Mathieson Krause and Reich go with SA hypothesis as well already from 2015. Remember mathieson 2015?
            There's another theory about Central Asian Sarazm but it's too fringe as of now

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            As far as I'm aware. Corded Ware coming from the east is still regarded as right.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            the Southern Arc thesis still holds that Sredni, proto-CW and Yamnaya spoke PIE. It just questions whether it came from the CHG component as opposed to the EHG heavier one.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Well there appears to be a clear case against CHG men being the dominate faction in CWC.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I don't agree with their conclusion but they seem to rely on a belief that it could be spread to Sredni maternally.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Languages have spread maternally with no problem, or patrilineal replacement have not changed the language. Or language has changed without ydna replacement. This haploautism = language isn't correlation let alone causation

            I think we can, no evidence of CHG being PIE.

            I don't agree with their conclusion but they seem to rely on a belief that it could be spread to Sredni maternally.

            Read reich's abstract from his speech, it's not CHG. It's something newer
            Yamnaya had two geneflows from the near east, not one. And we already knew that there were males migrating initially, see J in EHGs

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Read reich's abstract from his speech, it's not CHG. It's something newer
            >Yamnaya had two geneflows from the near east, not one
            I'm not sure this isn't just referring to geneflow 1 being EEF and geneflow 2 being CHG.
            It would be very interesting if he can prove actual affinity between the CHG/Iran N in Sredni Stog and the CHG/Iran N in chl Anatolia.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Because he says from the caucasus, not near east in general. Near east was added by me because I couldn't remember what he said

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            > The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the steppe served only as a secondary staging area of Indo-European language dispersal.
            I think this is too vague to understand until we get the paper on the 26th.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Correction
            >The impermeability of Anatolia to exogenous migration contrasts with our finding that the Yamnaya had two distinct gene flows, both from West Asia, suggesting that the Indo-Anatolian language family originated in the eastern wing of the Southern Arc and that the steppe served only as a secondary staging area of Indo-European language dispersal.
            West asia, not caucasus. But in this case it's the same, because he talks about geographical location of the source

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            With zero evidence

            [...]
            Not all R1 nor EHG were PIE speaking. There is significant diversity even among neolithic PC Steppe populations and onward. I don't think we can conclude that Samara HG, DDII, or even Khvalynsk spoke PIE.

            This is true, we have no idea. Hence most people focus on Hittites so the assumption for the ancestor (PIE) is safer
            But we might never fully know, maybe it was from unsampled migrants into the caucasus from oceania who disappeared, who knows

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >With zero evidence
            Lots of it actually. All of R1 is eastern shifted and spread west.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Wait, what are you arguing for? I was talking CWC not being PIE, we probably talk about different things

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >R1
            That's too vague. Obviously not all R1 could be Indo-European. Indo-European is too young for this. R1b-M269 and R1a-M417 sure, everything beyond that is unlikely if not impossible.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Then who did, genius? R1 EHGs ancestral to ANE is the best bet we got. Unless you got a better theory?

            Not all R1 nor EHG were PIE speaking. There is significant diversity even among neolithic PC Steppe populations and onward. I don't think we can conclude that Samara HG, DDII, or even Khvalynsk spoke PIE.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I think we can, no evidence of CHG being PIE.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            PIE can be from EHG yet still not every single ancient EHG-derived culture has to have spoke some sort of PIE or proto-IE.
            The linguistic consensus is that it is a relatively young language.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I think we can as EHG are mostly ANE.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            And WSHG are even more ANE. Is PIE from Kazakhstan or from Western Mongolia? Tarim are also more ANE. Is PIE from Western China?

            Villabruna was R1b. Multiple WHG had R1b. Was PIE in West Europe by 12,000 BC?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >And WSHG are even more ANE
            Wrong. EHG are like 79%.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >wrong
            No. WSHG and related population tend to be more ANE than EHG (80%+)

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No they fricking weren't. Cwc were massively dilluted.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >I think we can
            No we can't. I don't think you really understand. PIE is a relatively young language. It diversified in Copper Age.
            Samara HG is too old to be PIE and Khvalynsk culture which replaced it did not contribute to steppe migrants who invaded Europe.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You are literally splitting hairs. ANE came into Europe from an eastern expansion that would replace most european haplos with R1. EHG had lots of ANE and R1. Samara being ancestral to some ancient PIE is very likely and genetically consistent unless you are a CHGay who believes EHG men fricking CHG women had their sons learn their mother's tongue.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No. You just don't understand how lingustistics work. And no, I'm not a CHG guy, but it's silly to assume that EHG spoke an Indo-European language. PIE developed in the South, close to Caucasus in a population that was already mixed. This is why the theory of Eurasiatic (ANE related) imposing its language on Northwest Caucasian languages makes sense to me.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            WHY doesn't it make sense? These cultures are famously extremely patriarchal and spread their languages all over the world. You are the one practising mental gymnastics. Oh these R1 people just so happened to adopt a caucasian language while also fricking all their women despite being patriarchal.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >famously extremely patriarchal
            There aren't a lot of evidence for this, that's what shizo gimbutas said
            If anything they had high status female graves

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Nonsense. Their male lineages were always more similar than their female ones aka patriarchal.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            "Patriarchal" refers to culture. Haplogroups do not. Steppe cultures had high status graves for women, farmers did not
            Put 2 and 2 together

            You're too lost in your correlation/causation confirmation bias. There is no proof that yamnaya were patriarchal, do you understand? It's proposed, not proven. Patrilocality is usually the word used
            Sex bias is a better guide to use. And still doesn't say much

            Here's some food for thought that you will most likely ignore because it doesn't suit your theories
            If yamnaya and cwc & co were patriarchal, why did they literally ABANDON their paternal culture? Their fathers' tradition of nomadic steppe herding and horse riding, all abandoned instantly in favor of farming and non-mobile lifestyles

            PS they were all patriarchal of course. Matriarchal societies never existed

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Listen here you fricking mong. If a people have narrow and similar paternal lineages and wide and many alien female lineages, the culture respects the importance of Father to son lines rather than mother to daughter.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >No argument
            I accept your concession and total lack of answers

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >reading comprehension
            Goku lost. You lost. CHG women were raped. Me? Proven right. You? troony. I won btw. Male lines important? Patriarchal.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Here's some food for thought that you will most likely ignore because it doesn't suit your theories
            >If yamnaya and cwc & co were patriarchal, why did they literally ABANDON their paternal culture? Their fathers' tradition of nomadic steppe herding and horse riding, all abandoned instantly in favor of farming and non-mobile lifestyles
            >PS they were all patriarchal of course. Matriarchal societies never existed

            Because it was comfier, they still killed the males and fricked the women. And yes, Matriarchies are a lie.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >abandoning your tradition is comfier
            Yeah if you have literally zero honor

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            See

            >Yamnaya and CWC abandoned their paternal culture and became farmers like their wives
            ... after killing their earlier hudbands and sons. Lineages were SUPER important. Also, agro-pastoralism was a natural development. The Cwc for example would be massively less intolerant of lactose than the earlier farmers. They would also be more warlike (graves with weapons)

            They didn't abandon it, they merged both while DEMANDING all the previous men dead.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Basques were patriarchal and yet speak a non-IE language
            Again correlation<>causation. You have no hard evidence so you make guesses based on other guesses

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Which cultures are patriarchal? EHG? No evidence of that.
            You're really confused about this whole thing I think.

            No they fricking weren't. Cwc were massively dilluted.

            >CWC
            That's not WSHG or WSHG related.

            Distance to: RUS_AfontovaGora3
            0.06865000 RUS_Tyumen_HG
            0.08874345 RUS_Sosonivoy_HG
            0.09100582 RUS_MA1
            0.09794803 KAZ_Botai
            0.10070128 CHN_Tarim_EMBA1
            0.10340000 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1
            0.10393135 RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o3
            0.11040281 KAZ_Dali_EBA
            0.12034004 KAZ_Kumsay_EBA
            0.12197970 KAZ_Oy_Dzhaylau_MLBA_o
            0.12260874 CHN_Tarim_EMBA2
            0.12419939 KAZ_Mereke_MBA
            0.12495046 RUS_Steppe_Maykop
            0.14896266 RUS_Srubnaya_MLBA_o
            0.15253425 RUS_Karelia_HG

            First EHG is 15. The ones closer are all WSHG related.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            ANE cultures who spread R1 into europe and replaced the majority of their male lineages.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            And what evidence do you have for this? Dnieper Donets was a mix of R1 and I2 with mostly EHG ancestry. They buried their dead in communal graves. EHG had diverse Y-DNA.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >And what evidence do you have for this?
            Bronze Age genetics

            >Dnieper Donets was a mix of R1 and I2
            I2 and I1 are outliers in Europe. They would be the few peoples who didn't get genocided. Doesn't disprove my point though.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >bronze age
            We are talking here about Mesolithic and early Neolithic.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No, we are talking late neolithic early bronze age migrations who ANE'd Europe something terribly.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No, we are talking about EHG here, so about hunter gatherers or hunter-fishers before they acquired animals and became pastoralists.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            EHG fricking CHG women who then fricked EEF women is 100% what we're talking about.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No. We are talking about the origin of PIE. I said it originated somewhere in South Russia, close to the Caucasus. You claimed it's an EHG language, which means that all EHG-mixed populations should speak it, including Baltic HGs, SHGs, Ukrainian HGs, Iron Gates HGs and many others.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >which means that all EHG-mixed populations should speak it, including Baltic HGs, SHGs, Ukrainian HGs, Iron Gates HGs and many others.
            Nope, not at all! SHG and most baltic HGs had WHG fathers and thus spoke Ooga booga.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            So it's about paternal lineages? Okay then. It means that R1b WHG speak an Indo-European language then? Same with WSHG and Tarim people?
            So Indo-European language was brought by European migrants to Africa in the Mesolithic or Neolithic?
            Why not go back further? Maybe R2 is also Indo-European. Maybe Dravidians are in fact Indo-Europeans?
            Don't you understand how silly and uninformed you sound? PIE is dated to some 5000 BC by the way.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            R1b is WHG was an outlier. But he might have spoken some archaic form of super ancient proto PIE, yes.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >outlier
            No. There are many WHG and farmers with WHG ancestry with R1b. It was a dominant haplogroup among Serbian (Iron Gates) HGs.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No there aren't.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V88/

            Even yfull lists a few of them.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            CHGs fricked EHG women as well hence the J showing up
            >inb4 why not more
            The aristocratic CHG lineages were eventually overrun by plebeian EHGs breeding like rabbits

            >reading comprehension
            Goku lost. You lost. CHG women were raped. Me? Proven right. You? troony. I won btw. Male lines important? Patriarchal.

            Yamnaya and CWC abandoned their paternal culture and became farmers like their wives

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >>inb4 why not more
            Good pup, you must sense my bloodlust and acted accordingly. J were somewhat succesfull at raping EHG women at first
            So were WHG men (SHG). Point is though that the lineages that brought ANE into Europe were literally the opposite of this. EHG bulls would turn the tide something fierce and kick CHG back to the caucasus.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            EHGs looked like incel DYELs, they couldn't do shit
            cope

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Yamnaya and CWC abandoned their paternal culture and became farmers like their wives
            ... after killing their earlier hudbands and sons. Lineages were SUPER important. Also, agro-pastoralism was a natural development. The Cwc for example would be massively less intolerant of lactose than the earlier farmers. They would also be more warlike (graves with weapons)

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >The Cwc for example would be massively less intolerant of lactose than the earlier farmers.
            They weren't. Lactorse tolerance only started to get selected for in CWC. Less than 5% of them were lactose tolerant.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That's literally what I fricking said. CWC was more tolerant than previous farmers.
            >People of the Nordic Bronze Age and Corded Ware show the highest lactose tolerance among Bronze Age Europeans

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Nordic Bronze Age sure, not CWC. Wikipedia again?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Lineages were SUPER important.
            Says who?

            >bs excuse as to why they abandoned the ways of their forefathers
            Lol cope more, you idolize gypsies with no sense of honor

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Haplogroups. You have to be moronic not to understand this. The domimation of single haplos among population in Europe is a clear sign of importance of lineage.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Source? Where's the paper with the empirical evidence that proves this. I know J was important for EHGs to the point where it shower up in Karelia but I don't think it was THAT important for them to preserve it on purpose

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >They would also be more warlike (graves with weapons)
            CTC had graves with more weapons and even practiced slavery.

            See [...]
            They didn't abandon it, they merged both while DEMANDING all the previous men dead.

            They didn't merge shit, they became farmers who even abandoned their horse culture. Levantine cultures had far bigger horse cultures than cwc and nordic bronze age

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            They fricked the women and killed the men. Genetically very identical to andronovo too.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >genetically very identical to 40% eef people
            imagine mixing yourself out of existence, yikea

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >sintashta above EHG
            Kek what a meme, it's not like the chg in them magically made them more ane than ehg. They had far less ane than ehg total and the rest of their ancestries were still divergent so they should be lower

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Those are outliers, see that small o? There were some ANE heavy guys buried in SIntashta graves. I think they mostly carried Q. Same with that Srubnaya outlier.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Target: RUS_Sintashta_MLBA
            Distance: 7.4707% / 0.07470681
            31.4 TUR_Barcin_N
            30.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
            19.4 GEO_CHG
            18.8 WHG

            vs outliers

            Target: RUS_Sintashta_MLBA_o1
            Distance: 4.6566% / 0.04656565
            74.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
            22.4 GEO_CHG
            3.4 MNG_East_N

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            All these cultures are massively dilluted.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I think Bomhard is right about the origin of PIE. Or close to truth.

            >There have been numerous attempts to find relatives of Proto-Indo-European, not the least of which is the Indo-Uralic Hypothesis. According to this hypothesis, Proto-Indo-European and Proto-Uralic are alleged to descend from a common ancestor. However, attempts to prove this hypothesis have run into numerous difficulties. One difficulty concerns the inability to reconstruct the ancestral morphological system in detail, and another concerns the rather small shared vocabulary. This latter problem is further complicated by the fact that many scholars think in terms of borrowing rather than inheritance. Moreover, the lack of agreement in vocabulary affects the ability to establish viable sound correspondences and rules of combinability. This paper will attempt to show that these and other difficulties are caused, at least in large part, by the question of the origins of the Indo-European parent language. Evidence will be presented to demonstrate that Proto-Indo-European is the result of the imposition of a Eurasiatic language-to use Greenberg's term-on a population speaking one or more primordial Northwest Caucasian languages.

            Basically Indo-European is Eurasiatic (father of IE, Uralic and Altaic) transformed by southern Northwest Caucasian contacts (CHG).

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Ah forgot about it
            That would be the third total hypothesis, second major one

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            That’s wrong. PIE was a CHG language from the Caucasus. That lines up with all evidence.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            it would be difficult for r1b to be from WHG considering r-ph155 is essentially 100% siberian/asian. And R2's distribution also being consistent with ANE input in CHG.

            Both villabruna and especially iron gates hg were minorly EHG shifted.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Siberian/Asian
            ANE.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I read the paper. Earliest admixture with EHGs happens after 7000bce
            Oldest R haplogroups in europe are older than that

  13. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Why didn't the seven guys in Bronze Age Sweden leave anything behind?

  14. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >155 replies
    >15 posters

  15. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Neither genetic
    Formerly finno-ugric areas are literally the ones with the most blond-haired blue-eyed people in the world

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >bumfrick inbred small village manages to procreate only between themselves
      >fair features become dominant
      >this bumfrick village now grows under Swedish and Russian rule
      >thousand years later Fingoloids LARP as the whitest people, despite being a bunch of genetically weak inbreds

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >thousand years later germoids LARP as genetically weak inbreds
        FTFY
        also
        >grows under Russian rule
        I laughed

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