Why can't Sedevacantists Form their own American Catholic Church?

It can be called the American Catholic church and the Sedes can run it the way they want to and can make their own Papacy. People have already been declaring themselves the Pope of their own conclaves and having people listen to them. This would be on a larger scale. Lots of Sedes keep saying the church can exist without a Pope and that the church doesn't have to be visible to anyone because they are believers though.

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >another Pope Peter II
    >no "another" on the second Gregory XVII
    Sloppy job.

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Protestantism 2: Sedevacantist Boogaloo

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Sedevacantism isn't nearly as interesting as Sedes think it is. No one cares about some random schism in America, especially since we already have 9000 various sects and denominations already.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      American Pope would be kind of cool. Sounds like sitcom.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Congratulations you have created Protestantism.

        Just wondered but here's another Sede argument below:

        The Catholicity of the Church isn't based on appearance, it's the structure of the Church throughout the world. The Church has always been present in structure without a head for a while now, but that doesn't make it any less Catholic. The Church will remain Catholic regardless who recognizes it or not provided it is universal in it's governance. The conciliar church could hardly be called one, holy, or Apostolic as they've lost the episcopal priesthood.

        Is this a valid argument or invalid one?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          That's exactly the same argument that other Western churches which consider themselves Catholic use. Traditional Anglicans and Lutherans. Sedevacantists are simply another flavor of Protestant. They do not have unique or novel arguments.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Why do Sedes just repurpose 500 year old Protestant arguments and think they're being original? If Sedes has any knowledge at all of the history of Christianity they'd realize Lutheranism and Anglicanism are exactly what they're describing. But Sedes are just LARPers, to understand history they'd actually have to open a book.

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1). it's a tiny group of larpers
    2.) they can't agree on anything but seething at vatican

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >2.) they can't agree on anything but seething at vatican

      That's a good point. Nicely put.

      https://i.imgur.com/x0XWx1m.jpg

      It can be called the American Catholic church and the Sedes can run it the way they want to and can make their own Papacy. People have already been declaring themselves the Pope of their own conclaves and having people listen to them. This would be on a larger scale. Lots of Sedes keep saying the church can exist without a Pope and that the church doesn't have to be visible to anyone because they are believers though.

      This picture has my gobsmacked. I had no idea there were so many of these guys.

      To all sedevacantists reading this post - or anyone tempted by the movement - please watch these two videos:

      Leaving SSPX Behind

      Critique of Sedevacantist Arguments

      The second video, in particular, focuses on the magisterium, the teaching office of the Church. The speaker shows very clearly how sedevacantists do not have a correct understanding of Catholic canon law, and as a result have made some fundamental interpretational errors. I might add that very few people, including otherwise well-educated Catholics, are familiar with this material, but a correct understanding is critical to understanding the errors of sedevacantism.

      Also consider reading all or part of the following detailed refutation of sedevacantist claims:

      Contra Sedevacantism: A Definitive Refutation
      https://docs.google.com/document/d/1QyilJ9oBjUsXtjS0e-HsUakO8Sgw5bP1salPZUWYJzA/edit

      The book is free, and downloads are authorized by the author (who uploaded the document).

      Another book sedevacantists owe it to themselves to read is Thomas G. Guarino, The Disputed Teachings of Vatican ll: Continuity and Reversal in Catholic Doctrine.
      https://www.amazon.com/Disputed-Teachings-Vatican-II-Continuity/dp/080287438X

      Come back to the Catholic Church -- the bark of Peter, outside of which is no salvation. Build up the Church, don't tear it apart by engaging in schism.

      Every sedevacantist has separated himself from the faith of the Catholic Church. By your actions you testify that you do not trust the promise of Christ that the Gates of Hell would not prevail against His Church. Well, if you do not trust Christ, or His Church, what do you trust?

      Think. Pray.

      Wake up!

      Repent!

      The life you save may be your own.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        What do we do about this though with Pachamama and other issues like rampant sexual abuse?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >What do we do about this though with Pachamama and other issues like rampant sexual abuse?

          Those are serious things, and I don't want to minimize them

          As for Pachamama, I think the following is a sound take that recognizes the gravity of the matter, but is not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater as it were.

          Balancing Out Taylor Marshall on Pachamama

          As for the sex abuse problem, the Catholic Church is a divine institution that is made up of sinners. Jesus Christ Himself warned: "Scandals must come, but woe to the man by whom they come." Mt 18:17.

          In a hierarchical Church made up of sinners that has millions of members and has lasted for two thousand years, there are bound to be circumstances where a "perfect storm" occurs. That is what happened with rampant sexual abuse.

          But there is another aspect of the story:

          Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft, the author of a report on sexual offenses in schools, said sexual violence is much more prevalent in schools than in the Church.[276] According to the report, up to 422,000 students from California will be victims of sexual violence in the future.[276]

          A Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests "frequently" abused children; however, there is no data that indicates that priests commit abuse more often than the general population of males.[444]

          During the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran four stories about the federal government's discovery of the much larger – and ongoing – abuse scandal in public schools.[446]

          http://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625

          http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Dude can you stop spamming these threads? You're probably just a larping teenager that doesn't go to Church like every other le trad Christian on LULZ.

        >What do we do about this though with Pachamama and other issues like rampant sexual abuse?

        Those are serious things, and I don't want to minimize them

        As for Pachamama, I think the following is a sound take that recognizes the gravity of the matter, but is not willing to throw out the baby with the bathwater as it were.

        Balancing Out Taylor Marshall on Pachamama

        As for the sex abuse problem, the Catholic Church is a divine institution that is made up of sinners. Jesus Christ Himself warned: "Scandals must come, but woe to the man by whom they come." Mt 18:17.

        In a hierarchical Church made up of sinners that has millions of members and has lasted for two thousand years, there are bound to be circumstances where a "perfect storm" occurs. That is what happened with rampant sexual abuse.

        But there is another aspect of the story:

        Hofstra University researcher Charol Shakeshaft, the author of a report on sexual offenses in schools, said sexual violence is much more prevalent in schools than in the Church.[276] According to the report, up to 422,000 students from California will be victims of sexual violence in the future.[276]

        A Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll found that 64 percent of those queried thought Catholic priests "frequently" abused children; however, there is no data that indicates that priests commit abuse more often than the general population of males.[444]

        During the first half of 2002, the 61 largest newspapers in California ran nearly 2,000 stories about sexual abuse in Catholic institutions, mostly concerning past allegations. During the same period, those newspapers ran four stories about the federal government's discovery of the much larger – and ongoing – abuse scandal in public schools.[446]

        http://www.newsweek.com/priests-commit-no-more-abuse-other-males-70625

        http://www.cbsnews.com/news/has-media-ignored-sex-abuse-in-school/

        Good posts.

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Rest in peace

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why are there so many peters?

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Why?
    They would basically admit they're the new protestants

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Or they can say "I am the real Pope with apostolic succession. He's fake".

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Aren't Sedevacantists just a bunch of larpy teenagers who larped as cucklicks to own the libs only to find out that cucklicks are the most liberal religion?

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Actual sedevacantism is just people being autistic about latin mass. Online sedes literally don't know anything about catholicism and just project their personal politics onto it.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Does this post know about the Catholic religion or not?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          If you think the pope is heretical then you're a protestant

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            He says he's different from a Protestant because he can't disobey the Pope if he doesn't acknowledge the Pope exists or that any authority is held in the Vatican. You can't disobey someone who you see as not existing.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Thinking the pope doesn't exist is virtually heresy. Papal inauguration is supposed to come from God through the Bishops. In saying you reject the Pope you're saying you can choose better than God.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                What if your belief is God has been putting in antipopes on purpose in order to punish people? Then what because some believe this.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                That would literally imply God was creating evil.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Some Sedevacantists, including VaticanCatholic.com believe that God puts heretics in power on purpose but they don't see it as God creating evil because the people were just heretics and evil to begin with. It's not as if God forced them to do the evil acts. God was just putting them in the hierarchy because people didn't want truth so God is giving them deception.

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                Well yeah because they're coping lunatics

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                How is it a lunatic idea if you believe God is the one putting every Pope into power?

              • 2 weeks ago
                Anonymous

                The people are evil on their own. God merely structures life to place them into power.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      You don't understand trad Caths. Trad Caths see the church as a hierarchy and dogma not a people. They see the fact that gay marriage and female priests aren't allowed despite people being liberal as a success. Trad Caths like hierarchy and tradition. Whatever the people want doesn't matter. It's about dogma and what is enforced by rule and law. The Papacy is the ideal home to the auth right because then once you're in power you can ignore everyone underneath you because you're the one in control.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Are "Trad Caths" self aware that theyre literally the ingrate immigrants who don't assimilate and try to overthrow the local culture and system put in place?
        The US was founded by a bunch of protestant dudes who wanted a strict separation of church and state and absolutely no fucking theocracy. Then these fucking Bavarians, Fenians, Italians, and Polacks show up and now their autistic descendants are LARPing about 'muh great crusade' to turn our country into some God forsaken Spanish 18th century colony.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          This. TradCaths aren't "conservative* or traditional with respect to America. Most of them hate the country's founding and want to change the country into a radically different entity than what any of the Founding Fathers could possibly envision. The Know Nothings and anti-Catholic Republicans like Blaine and Grant were 100% correct about mass Catholic immigration being bad for the country.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      And consider this. If you go Protestant you don't have much access to institutional power. If you get in charge of the church, whatever the laity want doesn't matter. Why? Because you have power over 1.3 billion people and can excommunicate people at will.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes it makes the liberals seethe because they fear right wingers in institutional power and what liberals want to do is take over all the powerful and wealthy institutions. Do they fear the redneck without institutional power? Nope. Do they fear the next generation of right wing priests and Bishops who don't care what the laity think? Yes because they'll have institutional power.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      A religion is defined by the dogma not the people. Most Muslims in the USA support gay marriage and abortion for example. Does this make Islam pro gay marriage? Our catechism and canon law ban things like gay marriage and abortion regardless of what the laity think. In fact, the liberalism of US Catholics proves the effectiveness of the Catholic church as a structure. Also, Mass going Catholics are far more right wing than non Mass going. 83 percent of weekly Mass going Catholics are against abortion whereas it's closer to half and half for the whole religion. This is because only 21 percent of US Catholics go to Mass weekly.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >anti-abortion
        >right wing
        This is why any heavily religious political movement is doomed.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What makes a liberal seethe more? Conservatives taking back organizations and gaining political power or them staying in their "safe spaces" and never having culture? You don't understand politics, power dynamics, or the culture war at all.

  9. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Reminder that the Catholic church lost all temporal power and fueled revolutions across Europe because they were so "trad" people got sick of it. Why did they liberalize? It wasn't because they wanted to lmao, they did it because if they didn't Roman rebels would probably kill the Pope and burn down Rome.

    You want to know who killed traditional Catholicism? It was this guy, Pius IX. Not John Paul II.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Sedes often believe it came from the infiltration of homosexuals and freemasons in Vatican 1 and this is what's causing the evil agendas and also causing things like the child molesting scandals. They believe there's a homosexual infiltration going on at the Vatican and it's a plot.

  10. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Congratulations you have created Protestantism.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      If someone claims apostolic succession what would happen though?

      American Pope would be kind of cool. Sounds like sitcom.

      It would be really cool. Lenny Belardo was American in the Young Pope but this would be an American Papacy with an American equivalent to Vatican city.

  11. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    hmm its gonna be pope linus tech tips for me

  12. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    would consider that a type of Sedevacantist movement. It's kind of weird in that it's actually kind of logical. I guess I'd consider it to be a Sedevacantist Movement if you considered the fact that the Catholic Church is still here without a Pope.

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