why are they such ungrateful babies to britain?


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why are they such ungrateful babies to britain?

  1. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Ireland doesn't have a lot of reason to be grateful to eight centuries of foreign rule which left it the only country in the world to my knowledge with a smaller population now than in 1841.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      The English are the only reason they have civilization and industrialization. With a lesser neighbor, they'd be much poorer. Obviously this process of civilization had an incredible human cost, but when has that ever not been the case?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      How many Irish did the British kill?

      The British starved around 10 million Aryans in 3 years. It took the Land of Aryans around 50 years to get its population back.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Generally agreed to be 1 million out of 8 million (with another million emigrating) but more probably 5 million out of 12 million (according to very convincing arguments made by Jack Lane, summarised in this thread): https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/13392328/

        This is not a competition friend. Irish and Indian nationalists (particularly in Bengal) had close ties based on solidarity and a common experience of British-terror famines.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          This archived thread contains a high density of effortposts relative to shitposts and is almost certainly more worth reading than whatever this thread will turn out to be.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          5 million irish didn't die, they immigrated to liverpool and new york and continue to fester and be a pox on those communities to this day

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            they are quite literally the most successful immigrants in the united states. If by fester and pox you mean vote left wing then i guess.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >they are quite literally the most successful immigrants in the united states
              yeah because they acted like naggers and israelite

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              the hate for the irish on /misc/ just seems so arbitrary and random

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Irish
        >Land of Aryans
        Shut the fuck up Seamus

  2. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why didn't they fish?

  3. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Their language it's so shit it sounds like something that those niggas from half life would talk like

    Ah ghurrrr ga la lung churr galing chur alla gung

    and now Irish

    Ar chodail tú go maith? Faigh tuáille úr ghlan

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      It's a pretty language with an ugly orthography, much like French is an ugly language with a pretty orthography.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Irish is what happens when people try to build a language while they're drunk 24/7. There's a reason that there are more fluent Japanese speakers in Ireland than fluent Irish speakers.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      You were posting under a Russian flag in the thread about Ireland on pol and said the same thing but you're probably just a kike with a VPN or salty bong.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous
  4. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    while anglo saxon pagan animal chimps were ravaging what was left of rome we irish saved christianity and civilisation

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      based

  5. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >muh famine was genocide
    if the british wanted to they could have at any time got the military and killed every single catholic irishman in ireland.
    If the famine as an intentional genocide instead of a mismanaged potato blight why did the british send millions in aid to ireland?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      At the time of the Great Famine there were 100,000 British soldiers (roughly the number of American troops in Afghanistan 2010-2012) and almost 12,000 armed policemen in addition to a large militia in a 84,421 km2 country of 8 million people during a time of peace. They didn't need to fight. They contented themselves with guarding food for export, quelling food riots and demolishing the cabins of people too calorifically-deficient to fight for their own survival as they were made homeless by acts of British legislation designed to funnel them into the workhouse and then the mass grave.

      If by 'the British' you mean the British public, then they did indeed show great generosity via donations to the Irish people, particularly in the early stages of the crisis, except that the British state ensured that very little of that money went to alleviating Irish suffering. All Irish nationalist writers make a point of acknowledging the generosity of the common people of England, Europe and America while noting that this generosity was not allowed to interfere with the 'economic reform' the British state was carrying out in Ireland.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        If the british government wanted to they could have got 500 horse mounted soldiers together that went to every village and put every single irishmen there to the sword. in a few years the country would be completely depopulated
        if the british government wanted to genocide the irish then why didn't they do that and instead resort to a convoluted famine that did a very poor job of genocide?

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          >If the british government wanted to they could have got 500 horse mounted soldiers together that went to every village and put every single irishmen there to the sword.

          It got 500 horse mounted soldiers (or whatever the number was) and sent it to every village to escort food for escort and oversee the demolition of cabins belonging to tenants who were being evicted by their Anglo landlords to die in a ditch or a workhouse mass grave, or chance their luck on a coffin ship to Liverpool and then America, if they could even afford that.

          >if the british government wanted to genocide the irish

          They didn't aim at the complete and total extermination of the Irish (somebody's got to herd the cattle that provides beef to England and provide soldiers and prostitutes for the British army after all), only the culling of the Irish population to a manageable level to ensure Ireland would never have the strength to break free from England.

          >resort to a convoluted famine that did a very poor job of genocide?

          Was it a poor job? Ireland's population has never recovered, ensuring that Ireland has never had the manpower to existentially threaten the British state ever since. From a British geostrategic perspective it was a complete and total success.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            *escort food for export

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            >They didn't aim at the complete and total extermination of the Irish (somebody's got to herd the cattle that provides beef to England and provide soldiers and prostitutes for the British army after all
            Except if they did exterminate the entire population they could have given it to british planters like they did in ulster
            >only the culling of the Irish population to a manageable level to ensure Ireland would never have the strength to break free from England.
            Except ireland did break free of england so it wasn't exactly a good job then was it
            If the british wanted a genocide of ireland then it would have been mass killings and burnings of villages akin to the circassion genocide.
            The famine was not a genocide. it was a mismanaged famine made worse by british administrators who viewed the irish poorly and were fine with a few dying, but it was not a genocide in any way

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Except if they did exterminate the entire population they could have given it to british planters like they did in ulster

              It's often forgotten that there was an effort to do something like what you're suggesting, namely the Encumbered Estates Court, whose purpose was to have the estates of bankrupt Anglo-Irish landlords bought up by English speculators who would accelerate clearances and bring in new English and Scottish Protestant tenants. What happened is that nobody was keen to buy land in a country where landlords had a reputation for being assassinated by their tenants (for good reason), hence why most of these estates were bought up by other Anglo-Irish landlords in better straits to those who had gone bankrupt. The infamous John 'Black Jack' Adair made his fortune this way. In the end so long as the Irish population was kept manageably low the British didn't care so much about its ethnic composition in the second half of the 19th century.

              The truth is that the British government didn't want a populous Ireland full of Protestants either. Their experience in America showed them that a colony with the means and incentive to go its own way will do so, and the Catholic and Protestant Irish had in recent history united in defense of their interests, and even before the Catholics had means to politically unite with the Protestants those Protestants had developed a constitutional settler-colonial nationalism as far back as the late seventeenth century (Molyneux, Swift etc). A depopulated Ireland was the way to go.

              >Except ireland did break free of england so it wasn't exactly a good job then was it

              Ireland is not as free as it should be. It's still a British client state as of now, despite having enjoyed a few decades of genuine sovereignty in the mid 20th century due to deft manoeuvring on de Valera's part.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                you're talking bullshit
                The famine was not a genocide. At any time the Brits could have got their most loyal/pro british regiments, or even hired ulster scots to start ethnic cleansing the entire island of irish catholics and then after the job was done repopulated it with british subjects, like the russians did in circassia or like the americans did with the indians, but they didn't
                The Famine was a mismanaged famine that was no doubt exacerbated by british overseers who either didn't care that the irish were dying or saw it as a good thing but it was by no means an intentional genocide. if it was an intentional genocide then it was the worst genocide in history
                >ireland is still a british client state
                Wow we really do live in your heads rent free don't we

                Well considering a large percentage of their armed forces were Irish Catholic men that wouldn't have been let happen by the Irish men in the British army.

                Those could have been dealt with easily

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >like the russians did in circassia

                A Circassian type-genocide was not geopolitically feasible for Britain in 19th century western Europe (though they had done it before in 6th and mid 17th century Ireland), so they resorted to genocide (or more precisely ethnic cleansing) in the English style, with murder laundered into manslaughter for the sake of deniability. Don't forget that starvation is a bad, bad way to die.

                >or even hired ulster scots to start ethnic cleansing the entire island of irish catholics

                Interestingly enough, the Orange Order, which had been suppressed by the government for its attempt to place its Grandmaster on the throne in a coup (look up the Cumberland conspiracy), had its ban lifted in 1845 at the beginning of the Great Famine. One wonders why.

                >The Famine was a mismanaged famine that was no doubt exacerbated by british overseers who either didn't care that the irish were dying or saw it as a good thing .

                Glad you've admitted as much. Unpack your own words and think about their implications. Calling it 'mismanagement' obscures the fact that the British government passed legislation during the height of the crisis intended to leave the most vulnerable of the masses homeless.

                >if it was an intentional genocide then it was the worst genocide in history

                From the perspective of realpolitik it was extremely effective and even its very deniability attests to this.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >A Circassian type-genocide was not geopolitically feasible for Britain in 19th century western Europe (though they had done it before in 6th and mid 17th century Ireland), so they resorted to genocide (or more precisely ethnic cleansing) in the English style, with murder laundered into manslaughter for the sake of deniability. Don't forget that starvation is a bad, bad way to die.
                it was completely feasible
                Cromwells conquest was not a genocide. It was completely normal in the day to raze villages and slaughter towns. There are countless other examples in europe of razing and slaughter happening at the same time yet for some reason cromwell gets called a genocidal murderer.
                >Glad you've admitted as much. Unpack your own words and think about their implications. Calling it 'mismanagement' obscures the fact that the British government passed legislation during the height of the crisis intended to leave the most vulnerable of the masses homeless.
                I never denied that there were some brits who saw the famine as a good thing. That still doesn't make it a genocide.
                >From the perspective of realpolitik it was extremely effective and even its very deniability attests to this.
                well it clearly wasn't seeing as the irish got their indepdence from the british anyway
                As i've said multiple times there was NOTHING stopping the british from mass ethnically cleansing the irish and importing british colonists to claim the land.
                The famine was a mismanaged famine. it was not a genocide

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              [...]
              >The source of all evil lies in the race, the Celtic race of Ireland. There is no getting over historical facts ... The race must be forced from the soil; by fair means, if possible; still they must leave. England's safety requires it. I speak not of the justice of the cause; nations must ever act as Machiavelli advised: look to yourself. The Orange [Order] of Ireland is a Saxon confederation for the clearing the land of all papists and Jacobites; this means Celts. If left to themselves, they would clear them out, as Cromwell proposed, by the sword; it would not require six weeks to accomplish the work. But the Encumbered Estates Relief Bill will do it better.
              Robert Knox, The Races of Men, pp. 253-54, 1850.

              The English Field Marshal Lord French, the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at the time of the War of Independence, describing the demographic background of the circumstance:

              >The history of Ireland has never changed; trouble, repression, a period of apparent calm; when the circle is finished it begins again. The present disorders? That comes of having 100,000 surplus young men. For five years, because of the row, emigration has been suspended: hence all the trouble.

              The depopulation policy was consistently maintained by the British government, in one form or another, from the Great Famine until the War of Independence.

              Pic related is from Sylvain Briollay's Ireland in Rebellion (1922).

              >Except if they did exterminate the entire population they could have given it to british planters like they did in ulster

              It's often forgotten that there was an effort to do something like what you're suggesting, namely the Encumbered Estates Court, whose purpose was to have the estates of bankrupt Anglo-Irish landlords bought up by English speculators who would accelerate clearances and bring in new English and Scottish Protestant tenants. What happened is that nobody was keen to buy land in a country where landlords had a reputation for being assassinated by their tenants (for good reason), hence why most of these estates were bought up by other Anglo-Irish landlords in better straits to those who had gone bankrupt. The infamous John 'Black Jack' Adair made his fortune this way. In the end so long as the Irish population was kept manageably low the British didn't care so much about its ethnic composition in the second half of the 19th century.

              The truth is that the British government didn't want a populous Ireland full of Protestants either. Their experience in America showed them that a colony with the means and incentive to go its own way will do so, and the Catholic and Protestant Irish had in recent history united in defense of their interests, and even before the Catholics had means to politically unite with the Protestants those Protestants had developed a constitutional settler-colonial nationalism as far back as the late seventeenth century (Molyneux, Swift etc). A depopulated Ireland was the way to go.

              >Except ireland did break free of england so it wasn't exactly a good job then was it

              Ireland is not as free as it should be. It's still a British client state as of now, despite having enjoyed a few decades of genuine sovereignty in the mid 20th century due to deft manoeuvring on de Valera's part.

              >In Ireland, at present, the real value of a property consists in the paucity of its tenants; a property without any tenants at all affords some hope of ultimate improvement by the allocation of a different class of men, on very different terms, or by the personal occupation of the proprietor. At present, the latter expedient is the most suitable. The number of petty tenants is one of the curses of Ireland, and many of these having the usual leases of thirty-one years, or three lives, the remedy can be but slow. These men subdivide their little farms into the minutest allotments that can be supposed to subsist a human being, and the poor wretched undertenants are thus ground down to the very verge of starvation; nay more, they die in numbers, of famine, on these wretched holdings... Better that Ireland should become one vast sheepwalk, than that it should continue as it now is. And this feeling more and more establishes itself in my mind, as I travel and observe more closely the condition and habits of the people... The effect of the policy of the government, therefore, appears to be, say they, to drive out the present race and create new interests. The lever is applied to the present system, and it must and will fall to pieces. I myself presume to offer no opinion . The only question, perhaps, for enlightened politicians to decide is, Whether the breaking up of the present state of things could have been less rudely and cruelly accomplished .
              John Hervey Ashworth, The Saxon in Ireland: Or, The Rambles of an Englishman in Search of a Settlement in the West of Ireland; with Frontispiece and Map (London, 1851), 182-184.

              There are comparatively few book-length monuments of the colonial enthusiasm for the abortive 'New Plantation' partially undertaken after the Great Famine via the Encumbered Estates Court but Ashworth's book is one of the more notable.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >But where, it may well be asked, are the hands to ply the mattock and pick ? For famine, and ejection, and the Exodus, have swept away the working men; and though it is evident, from the number of children, that great efforts are being made to repopulate the country, there seems to be no staff on the spot for any large undertakings. But men are to be found when they are wanted by master-minds ; and the Irish and English labourers, instead of deserting for America and Australia a land so full of promise, would readily be induced, by leaders of energy and capital, to appropriate advantages nearer home. The sale of encumbered estates (one of the cleverest, cleanest cuts, that surgeon ever made, to save his patient from mortification), amply justifies the healthful hope that English and Scotch farmers will soon be numerous upon Irish soil, not to become, like the Norman visitors of yore, “ipsis Hibernis Hiberniores,” but to inoculate Paddy with their own activity and earnestness, and to persuade him, just for once and by way of a change, to work in his own land, as he can and will in any other.
                Reverend Samuel Hole, A Little Tour in Ireland: Being a Visit to Dublin, Galway, Connamara, Athlone, Limerick, Killarney, Glengarriff, Cork, Etc. Etc. Etc. (London, 1859), 67-69.

                This document shows a more benevolent, perhaps naive (I don't think disingenuous) interpretation of the colonial function of the encumbered estates court from an English writer sympathetic to the Irish.

                The continuity of English policy in Ireland is really remarkable. When the government was trying to do was a repetition of the plantations of the 16th and 17th centuries and the Cromwellian Court of Settlement. In common with all of those it was preceded with a policy of depopulation of the natives via famine.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >There was little mention of the possibility of profit while the war was raging in Munster but by 1584 Wallop had assumed the position, with Sir Valentine Browne and others, as surveyor of the lands of the rebels in Munster. He was then impressed by the heavy mortality that had fallen on the province through war and famine, and he pointed to the consequent need ‘to repeople it again with a better race and kind of people than the former were’. Wallop again had clear ideas on who would be fitted ‘to draw thither of their friends and followers out of England to inhabit and manure the same’.
                Nicholas Canny, Making Ireland British, 1580-1650 (Oxford, 2001), 109.

                An instance of such continuity when it comes to English thinking on Ireland in terms of policy.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Well considering a large percentage of their armed forces were Irish Catholic men that wouldn't have been let happen by the Irish men in the British army.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        I don't have a precise breakdown on the ethnic composition of the British forces stationed in Ireland but I do know the British were careful to ensure their Irish soldiers were not stationed in Ireland for this reason. Their policy of exchanging forces between Britain and Ireland to retain their integrity as a suppressive force even extended to militias, the most 'local' of security forces.

  6. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    The holocaust didn't happen but it should have happened. Jidf tounge my anus.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      To the best of my knowledge the person who makes these threads is not israeli but an Anglo-Australian who believes in an Irish conspiracy to take over Australia.

  7. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Traditional explanations of Britain’s inadequate response to the famine fail to answer certain critical questions. Why the inordinate concern for the work ethic of the Irish peasant and, more important, why after 1847 was the so-called Gregory Clause of the Poor Relief Bill instituted? This clause stipulated that tenants holding more than a quarter-acre of land were not eligible for public assistance. Becoming law in June 1847, the worst of the famine years, it became the basis for mass evictions of hundreds of thousands that yielded not only death by starvation, but also by epidemic diseases of many sorts, made possible by the weakened constitutions of the malnourished. Why were the rapid population increase, underdevelopment, and potential, though not actual dissidence of poor Irish Catholics so threatening to Britain? An answer is to be found in the earlier invasion of Ireland by the French and the attempted coalition of an external great power enemy and native rebels that earlier had proven so devastating to the British in the American Revolution. Even the external great power was the same in both cases – France. And while France was an ally of Britain during the Entente Cordiale of the 1830s and early 1840s, that condition would change radically precisely during the early stages of the famine.
    Manus I. Midlarsky, The Killing Trap: Genocide in the Twentieth Century (Cambridge, 2005), 119.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The effort to ‘‘solve’’ the Irish Question through draconian measures can be fully understood only within the geopolitical security context of the period. Russell himself actually opposed ejecting the Irish tenants but came up against two of his cabinet members with Irish landholdings who opposed leniency. One of these, Lord Palmerston, the foreign secretary, was especially adamant. He also was the single most well-known and widely influential member of the cabinet. Some of his statements are revealing. On March 31, 1848, Palmerston recorded to the cabinet that ‘‘it was useless to disguise the truth that any great improvement in the social system of Ireland must be founded upon an extensive change in the present state of agrarian occupation, and that this change necessarily implies a long continued and systematic ejectment of small-holders and of squatting cottiers.’’ The cabinet exhibited a ‘‘general shudder’’ when Lord Clanricarde (another landholder in Ireland) made similar pronouncements with an equal degree of ruthlessness.
      Midlarsky, Killing Trap, pages 119-120.

      There is still a road in Dublin named after Palmerston, the architect of the British famine policy. Irish 'independence' is of a very qualified kind.

  8. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >How the famine and its consequences have been deliberately made the most of, both by the individual landlords and by the English legislature, to forcibly carry out the agricultural revolution and to thin the population of Ireland down to the proportion satisfactory to the landlords, I shall show more fully in Vol. III. of this work, in the section on landed property. There also I return to the condition of the small farmers and the agricultural labourers. At present, only one quotation. Nassau W. Senior says, with other things, in his posthumous work, “Journals, Conversations and Essays relating to Ireland.” 2 vols. London, 1868; Vol. II., p. 282. “Well,” said Dr. G., “we have got our Poor Law and it is a great instrument for giving the victory to the landlords. Another, and a still more powerful instrument is emigration.... No friend to Ireland can wish the war to be prolonged [between the landlords and the small Celtic farmers] - still less, that it should end by the victory of the tenants. The sooner it is over — the sooner Ireland becomes a grazing country, with the comparatively thin population which a grazing country requires, the better for all classes.” The English Corn Laws of 1815 secured Ireland the monopoly of the free importation of corn into Great Britain. They favoured artificially, therefore, the cultivation of corn. With the abolition of the Corn Laws in 1846, this monopoly was suddenly removed. Apart from all other circumstances, this event alone was sufficient to give a great impulse to the turning of Irish arable into pasture land, to the concentration of farms, and to the eviction of small cultivators. After the fruitfulness of the Irish soil had been praised from 1815 to 1846, and proclaimed loudly as by Nature herself destined for the cultivation of wheat, English agronomists, economists, politicians, discover suddenly that it is good for nothing but to produce forage.
    Karl Marx, Capital (1867/1887), 505.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      The eviction policy undertaken by the landlords during the Great Famine continued to be carried out with varying levels of intensity for four decades afterwards. These landlords it must be remembered were for the most part ethnically-English Protestants whose ancestors had been granted land in Ireland during the 16th and 17th centuries.

      >The melancholy dominating most of these songs is still the expression of the national. disposition today. How could it be otherwise amongst a people whose conquerors are always inventing new, up-to-date methods of oppression? The latest method, which was introduced forty years ago and pushed to the extreme in the last twenty years, consists in the mass eviction of Irishmen from their homes and farms — which, in Ireland, is the same as eviction from the country. Since 1841 the population has dropped by two and a half million, and over three million Irishmen have emigrated. All this has been done for the profit of the big landowners of English descent, and on their instigation. If it goes on like this for another thirty years, there will be Irishmen only in America.
      Friedrich Engels, Notes for the Preface to a Collection of Irish Songs.
      https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1870/history-ireland/irish-songs.htm

      I'm repeating my posts from the other thread because I'm bitter about the jannies deleting it prematurely.

  9. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Irish aren't European.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      My favourite Hiberno-Mexican is William Lamport / Guillén de Lampart.

      >Apart from his amazingly adventurous life, his only undisputed claim to fame probably lies in the fact that he was the author of the first declaration of independence in the Indies, a document that promised land reform, equality of opportunity, racial equality and a democratically elected monarch over a century before the French Revolution. A statue of Lamport is immediately inside the Angel of Independence, a major historical monument in Mexico City.[30]
      From wiki.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        I had the same classes as a Mexican kid who looked exactly like him wtf

  10. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why are these threads always so bad?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Because they're always a crypto-/int/ thread

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Br*ts.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Brits at it again, just leave the silly cunts to their 1890s fantasies and shitty bunting

  11. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    remember the time america paid and supplied a bunch of irish catholic nationalists to attack a bunch of poor civilians and militia members in canada that had nothing to do wit hireland?

  12. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Irish....

  13. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Even Irish historians don’t claim the famine was a genocide. Just plastic paddy’s and butthurt Irish with inferior complexes

  14. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    They resent being held accountable for their actions.

    If the Irish hadn’t spent centuries raiding England, if they hadn’t attacked when England was beset by the Normans and Norse, if they hadn’t the biggest slave market in Dublin chock full of English slaves captured in raids, then they wouldn’t have drawn the ire of the Normans after their conquest of England.

    If they hadn’t acted as the attack dogs of the Norman overlords for centuries, always siding with the despots against their rebellious English subjects trying to reclaim their ancestral rights and freedom, they wouldn’t have drawn the hatred and contempt of the English people.

    The conquest and anglicization of Ireland is their just comeuppance for being assholes. The famines, wars, and edicts, were all justified for 800 years of being absolute bastards.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      This is true. The Irish are a naturally ignorant and embarrassed people though so they will deny it when it’s evidently true historically.

      They hate Cromwell for beating their asses when they tried to keep the monarch in power in England

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Yes, This is true. The Norman kings who wish to be absolute despots like their cousins on the continent relied on Irish troops to suppress their English subjects.

        I have a plastic paddy coworker. When he starts with his ah toi toi toi toi toi 600 hunned hyeahs o’ hinglish hoppresshun, I just point the Irish mercenary companies in William the conqueror’s army. They got what they deserved. If they didn’t want the corn laws they should have stayed on their side of the Irish sea.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >They hate Cromwell for beating their asses when they tried to keep the monarch in power in England

        Cromwell let the israelite back into the kingdoms and if you weren't a kike yourself but a decent Englishman then you'd hate Cromwell too for that too.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          >DUH JOOOOOS

          Not surprised Irish nationalists are the same dumb fucks that overlap with Nazis lmao

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >They hate Cromwell for beating their asses when they tried to keep the monarch in power in England

        Castlehaven, an English Catholic who fought with the Irish Confederates in Ireland, was of the opinion that the Gaelic Irish did not care about the king or even recognise his claim to Ireland and just wanted their country back. What he, a direct if unwilling participant (he was basically press-ganged by the rebels into taking command of them), describes is explicitly a nationalist war of liberation:

        >I must confess I myself am now, as I have been long since, upon serious reflections , abundantly convinced, that however the circumstances of this time gave life and birth to that rebellion of Ireland; yet the design of it had been laid partly at home, but chiefly abroad in foreign parts, even several years before the troubles either of England or Scotland began. And that the original, true and great motive indeed thereof, was no other than that fatal one, which for so many hundred years from Henry II to the be ginning of king James's reign, had been not only the very source of all the dangerous rebellions of that country, but the very bane and ruin of its people on all sides for so many ages. The national feud, I mean, betwixt the mere Irish (as the ancient Milesians are called) and later Irish, or colonies of English extraction among them: and the unalterable persuasion of the former, that the English conquest of that country, was but mere usurpation, without any just title: and that the right both to the supream sovereignty, and proprietorship too, of all the lands of Ireland, still remained, according to the ancient Brehon laws of that country, (which say they, had never been legally repealed or antiquated, and consequently also according to the laws of God) in the surviving heirs of the more ancient natives, the Milesians.
        The Earl of Castlehaven's Review: Or His Memoirs of His Engagement and Carriage in the Irish Wars (London, 1684), 12-13.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >If the Irish hadn’t spent centuries raiding England
      The Irish never raided England, they raided Wales and the west coast of Britain in a time when the Anglo Saxons had not even arrived yet in Britain and thus the concept of an England did not yet even exist
      >if they hadn’t attacked when England was beset by the Normans and Norse
      Never happened
      > if they hadn’t the biggest slave market in Dublin chock full of English slaves captured in raids
      Dublin was a city founded by the Norse, not by Gaels, and the slave population was mostly Irish slaves captured by the Norse in Ireland.
      > If they hadn’t acted as the attack dogs of the Norman overlords for centuries, always siding with the despots against their rebellious English subjects trying to reclaim their ancestral rights and freedom, they wouldn’t have drawn the hatred and contempt of the English people.
      This claim is so bizarre it’s hard to respond to. It was the Normans who invaded Ireland a century after conquering England. It’s clear you never so much as looked at a Wikipedia page about Irish history yet you still took the time to write this post.
      Why must you parade your ignorance like this?

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The Irish never raided England, they raided Wales and the west coast of Britain in a time when the Anglo Saxons had not even arrived yet in Britain and thus the concept of an England did not yet even exist
        The sub-Roman Britons invited the Angles and Saxons as mercenaries to defend them against Irish pirates. Had the Irish stuck to their own island and not tried to pilfer a few Welsh ewes and cattle, there wouldn't have been an England to come over and rape it half-a-millennium later

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          It's funny how the same kind of people who criticise the Irish for seething about things that happened as recently as the 90s seethe about the actions of Irish pirates in the 4th century AD. The distinction is between state and non-state actors. Unless you attribute a more precocious development to the medieval Irish polity than any Irish nationalist, 4th century Irish pirates were not agents of 'Ireland' as such, whereas British (English and Scottish) misdeeds in Ireland were perpetrated by the same British state as now exists as the UK.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            I actually think that your posts are of too high quality for this thread or board. They’re wasted here.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              If one intelligent person has their mind changed or their interest piqued from reading them they're not wasted.

  15. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    friendly reminder that the ira were funded by mossad

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >mossad invented time travel just to fund the IRA that was dissolved before they were created

  16. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >I have seen the Indian in his forests, and the Negro in his chains, and thought, as I contemplated their pitiable condition, that I saw the very extreme of human wretchedness; but I did not then know the condition of unfortunate Ireland...In all countries, more or less, paupers may be discovered; but an entire nation of paupers is what was never seen until it was shown in Ireland.
    Gustave de Beaumont, Ireland: Social, Political, and Religious, Vol. I (1839).

    >It is undeniable," said Inglis, after his visit to Ireland in 1834, "that the condition of the Irish poor is immeasurably worse than that of the West Indian slave." Barrow, after a tour in Ireland in 1835, writes: "No picture drawn by the pencil, none by the pen, can possibly convey an idea of the sad reality. . . . There is no other country on the face of the earth where such extreme misery prevails as in Ireland." [...] The Abbe Perrand, afterwards Bishop of Autun, visited the island in 1860, and wrote : "How great was my astonishment, more than twenty years after the second journey of De Beaumont, to come upon the very destitution so eloquently described by him in 1839!" Mr. Farrer says of him: "After living long in a department considered as one of the poorest and most backward in France, Perrand undertook to say..." that the lot of the poorest peasant in France could not compare with the misery of a large part of Ireland."
    D. P. Conyngham, Ireland, Past and Present: Embracing a Complete History of the Land Question from the Earliest Period to the Present Time (New York, 1887), 140-141.

  17. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    And this is how we say goodbye in Germa....I mean in England.

  18. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    the irish are imperialists who stamped out our indigenous worship of woden and replaced it with christ worship.
    why shouldnt i be mad at them for it?

  19. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Another one of these threads?
    Butthurt Anglos seething eternally. The Irish have their issues, but At least they’re not a nation of forelock tugging cucks like their neighbours on Misery Island

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Its quiet sad innit.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        The Irish are respected/liked worldwide, the Brits have become a joke, a cucked parody of themselves, and they can’t stand it. Even places like Germany or Hungary are better respected in Europe these days than Misery Island

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          The Irish are seen as good lap dogs for bowing down to Germany and France whenever they want a new EU a treaty signed. Safe in the knowledge the Irish will agree. No matter how many times their government has to ask them until they get it right

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Imagine that, the Irish welcomed as part of a community of nations, beloved the world over. England, a mediocrity, a shadow of what it once was, cutting itself off from the rest of the world for “MUH SOVERNTY INNIT”. Throwing away trade deals with Europe and the US, growing more irrelevant by the year, but at least ar’ Imperial Banana measurements back.

            Bit sad, innit?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      lmao you're the maddest person in the thread so far
      seeeeeeeeetthe little paddy :^)

  20. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >the irish were seen as second class citizens
    LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
    Arthur Conan Doyle, a born and bred irish catholic was one of the most popular authors of his time and was beloved all throughout britain

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Whenever an Irishman succeeds the Irish disown them as “Anglo Irish”

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Like who exactly? Give us an example. Freaks on these threads always sperg out when we claim anyone of an Anglo Irish background as Irish and now some freak is saying we disown them as "Anglo Irish". It's the same type of freaks who mock us for not speaking our native tounge and then 5 minutes later are shitting on the language itself and saying how horrible it is, so if we spoke it you'd mock us for it and if we don't you mock us for it too.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Like who exactly? Give us an example. Freaks on these threads always sperg out when we claim anyone of an Anglo Irish background as Irish and now some freak is saying we disown them as "Anglo Irish". It's the same type of freaks who mock us for not speaking our native tounge and then 5 minutes later are shitting on the language itself and saying how horrible it is, so if we spoke it you'd mock us for it and if we don't you mock us for it too.
          because you're claiming people who aren't and who you complain about as being evil landowners and imperialists as Irish you hypcroticial retard
          one moment you will go on about how the planters were so evil, the next you will point to them as an example of the greatness of irish literature
          Indian people don't claim Rudyard Kipling as one of their own when they talk about Indian literary figures. Irish people steal English, Scottish and French Hugenot figures and claim them AS THEIR OWN

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Indian people don't claim Rudyard Kipling as one of their own when they talk about Indian literary figures. Irish people steal English, Scottish and French Hugenot figures and claim them AS THEIR OWN

            Insofar as that's the case it's because the Anglo-Irish minority would claim discrimination otherwise on account of not being perceived as Irish by their fellow countrymen. When a group of amateur local historians included the work of Elizabeth Bowen in their anthology of local literature with a preface saying they didn't really consider her an Irish writer (in fact she did espionage work for the British government in Ireland and identified as English) they were denounced as sectarian bigots and anti-English racists.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Insofar as that's the case it's because the Anglo-Irish minority would claim discrimination otherwise on account of not being perceived as Irish by their fellow countrymen
              The Anglo Irish don't exist anymore
              The Anglo Irish were not irish no matter how much you push them
              The Ulster Scots were and are not irish no matter how much your diaspora claims and uses them as an example of "american presidents with irish blood"

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The Anglo Irish don't exist anymore

                They do

                >The Anglo Irish were not irish no matter how much you push them

                No one here claims Anglo Irish as Irish other than Anglo Irish themselves who consider themselves Irish. An Irish person upon hearing the name of any prominent Anglo Irish person from Ireland immediately knows the difference and has little interest in the short. An example being Ernest Shakelton who was Anglo and from Ireland being a famous explorer but on his team was an Irish man from Kerry called Tom Crean and he's more famous and known here than Shakelton and I've seen Irish documentaries about Crean but nothing about Shakelton. There's no love here for any members of the old Anglo Irish ascendancy. We glorify our own and don't care much for the other. No one in this country cares about Anglo writers either but they are used to promote tourism for people into that sort of thing. The likes of Seamus Heaney or Patrick Kavanagh, James Joyce etc.. Are more known and the subject of documentaries or whatever on our TV stations.

                Ulster Scots living in the parts of Ulster that are in the Republic do consider themselves Irish. Plenty in the north would all themselves Irish too. A lot of Ulster Scots are more similar and genetically closer to Irish people than both are to Anglo Irish. Ulster Scots were subject to penal laws too and weren't as wealthy as Anglo Irish and the Anglo Irish ascendancy and would be culturally and genetically different and would have had as much disdain for them as the Catholics.

                >your diaspora claims and uses them as an example of "american presidents with irish blood"

                If they do its only out if ignorance and not knowing the difference. People in Ireland don't claim them and have no interest in them.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Good post. In my opinion the best criterion as to whether an Anglo-Irish person is/was Irish or not is whether they consider their nationality (as distinct from their regional identity) to be Irish. It does not necessarily mean you have to be an Irish nationalist to be Irish if you are of Anglo-Irish background - it is possible to be a unionist who believes Ireland should be united with Britain while still considering your primary identity to be Irish and not British - but it is imperative that your primary sense of national identity should lie with Ireland instead of Britain. Imo it's something that needs to be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >They do
                They don't in any meaningful way.
                >No one here claims Anglo Irish as Irish other than Anglo Irish themselves who consider themselves Irish. An Irish person upon hearing the name of any prominent Anglo Irish person from Ireland immediately knows the difference and has little interest in the short. An example being Ernest Shakelton who was Anglo and from Ireland being a famous explorer but on his team was an Irish man from Kerry called Tom Crean and he's more famous and known here than Shakelton and I've seen Irish documentaries about Crean but nothing about Shakelton. There's no love here for any members of the old Anglo Irish ascendancy. We glorify our own and don't care much for the other. No one in this country cares about Anglo writers either but they are used to promote tourism for people into that sort of thing. The likes of Seamus Heaney or Patrick Kavanagh, James Joyce etc.. Are more known and the subject of documentaries or whatever on our TV stations.
                Your diaspora do

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >your diaspora do
                Irish people can't control the American Retard affect, anon. be fair

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                They market it and get millions of dumb american tourists a year so i don't think they mind

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                The diaspora do? How so? I reckon you just seen a few internet articles around St Patrick's day written by some clueless American who may or may not be some percentage Irish American listing 10 Irish American presidents or something like that and claiming Scots Irish ones as Irish is what has you believing that. I don't think Irish Americans would claim anyone who didn't have an Irish Catholic surname as being Irish American. Irish Americans know the difference between the peoples that came from this island and many are well aware of surnames and to what ethnic group from Ireland they'd belong. Ask any Irish Catholic American who was the first Irish president of America and they'll say Kennedy. They have their own identity and it doesn't overlap with the Scots Irish or Anglo Irish. Irish Americans don't count Scots Irish as their own or claim any of their prominent people.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Bear in mind that we get blamed for what the descendants of your people who colonised our country did in other countries Britain colonised. Most foreigners don't quite understand the distinction between native Catholic Irish and Protestant Anglo-Irish, or appreciate how stark and significant a distinction it was. Ireland is now being treated as though it has colonial guilt because the same Anglo-Irish landlords who received their land in a 17th century version of Generalplan Ost and evicted their tenants to die at the height of the Great Famine also happened to have a sidegig oppressing blacks too on their West Indian plantations, leading them to considered 'Irish slaveowners'.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Insofar as that's the case it's because the Anglo-Irish minority would claim discrimination otherwise on account of not being perceived as Irish by their fellow countrymen
              The Anglo Irish don't exist anymore
              The Anglo Irish were not irish no matter how much you push them
              The Ulster Scots were and are not irish no matter how much your diaspora claims and uses them as an example of "american presidents with irish blood"

              Anglo-Irish people would refer to themselves as 'Irish' in the geographic sense while regarding themselves as ethnically distinct from the Catholic natives. Theirs was a colonial identity, not an ethnic one, though of course in each case it's complex and there are grey areas.

              Pic related is from Javed Majeed, Colonialism and Knowledge in Grierson’s Linguistic Survey of India (2019). Grierson and the people he was writing to all considered themselves 'Irish', but of a very different kind to the natives.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous
            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Bear in mind that we get blamed for what the descendants of your people who colonised our country did in other countries Britain colonised. Most foreigners don't quite understand the distinction between native Catholic Irish and Protestant Anglo-Irish, or appreciate how stark and significant a distinction it was. Ireland is now being treated as though it has colonial guilt because the same Anglo-Irish landlords who received their land in a 17th century version of Generalplan Ost and evicted their tenants to die at the height of the Great Famine also happened to have a sidegig oppressing blacks too on their West Indian plantations, leading them to considered 'Irish slaveowners'.
              No, it's the result of irish diaspora infiltrating media and portraying being irish as based and epic so people want to think of their anglo-scots cultural figures and presidents as irish gaels

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Nobody in Ireland tries to shill Ulster-Scots American presidents as being of Irish descent. Ask an Irish person who the first Irish-descended president was and they'll say Kennedy. I think you're reading a whole cultural conspiracy into your google search results for "US presidents of Irish descent".

                The fact of the matter is that back in the 18th and even the 19th century Presbyterian Ulster Scots considered themselves proudly Irish, even if they disliked the Catholic natives. Ulster separatism is a very recent thing. It's often forgotten that the Ulster Covenant wasn't about allowing Ulster to secede from the jurisdiction of a devolved parliament in Ireland, it was about preventing all of Ireland from getting any devolution whatsoever, which as a stance presupposes common nationhood with the rest of Ireland. At the time of the Home Rule Crisis the Unionist stance wasn't "Ulster is not in Ireland" but rather "as the superior part of Ireland we have a duty to save the Catholic majority from themselves by preventing Ireland from attaining any form of self-government".

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Nobody in Ireland tries to shill Ulster-Scots American presidents as being of Irish descent. Ask an Irish person who the first Irish-descended president was and they'll say Kennedy. I think you're reading a whole cultural conspiracy into your google search results for "US presidents of Irish descent".
                LOL
                It's absolutely true that Irish Diaspora inflate their importance and numbers in the nations that they dwell in. This is most common in america of course but it happens in australia where it's claimed that every aussie settler was actually irish and the english were just overseers
                The Irish have marketed themselves as a race very well. They present an image of the irish as being some rough, violent, alcohol drinking yet poetic people that appeals to dumb americans who drink green beer on saint pattys day and get a tattoo that says fighting irish. The irish have gone from being poor immigrants to having huge amounts of power in the media and in the cultural perception of america and that's why americans view being irish so positively and rush to claim anyone and anything as irish
                >The fact of the matter is that back in the 18th and even the 19th century Presbyterian Ulster Scots considered themselves proudly Irish, even if they disliked the Catholic natives
                Yeah just like americans in the 19th century considered themselves american even though they hated the injun natives

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The Irish have marketed themselves as a race very well. They present an image of the irish as being some rough, violent, alcohol drinking yet poetic people that appeals to dumb americans who drink green beer on saint pattys day and get a tattoo that says fighting irish.

                It's the other way around. Irish people acquiesce to stereotypes about themselves and conform to them because they like to be liked.

                >An Irishman likes to be thought a gallous fellow. A Scotchman is contented with himself. It seems to me they are both sensible of the Character they hold in England and act accordingly to Englishmen.
                John Keats to Thomas Keats, Maybole, July 11 1811, Letters of John Keats to His Family and Friends, by John Keats, Edited by Sidney Colvin (London, 1925), 127.

                The American group Irish people are most like historically in their manners and attitudes are 'southern gentlemen' fallen on hard times. Pretentiously genteel, affectedly superior to uncouth Anglo-Saxon boors, hospitable to the point of being overbearing. Our historic self-image until recent times was as a race of gentlemen oppressed by vulgar and boorish Anglo-Saxons. Irish-American culture is an appropriation of the pre-existing working-class culture of Boston and other New England and mid-Atlantic cities, it has nothing to do with Ireland proper, except that it was projected onto the Irish and adopted by them. Americans like hard-drinking vulgar rogues you see. Actual Irish people in the 19th and early 20th centuries had the reputation for being almost pretentiously polite and pseudo-genteel despite their poverty, not boorish or coarse like MacGregor or the Boston Irish.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >It's the other way around. Irish people acquiesce to stereotypes about themselves and conform to them because they like to be liked.
                No, they market them. Ireland has a good PR team and irish diaspora have a lot of influence in the media, that is literally all
                >the rest of your paragraph
                I never said that the irish were rowdy drunks, that is how they market themselves though and that's what americans who listen to the dropkick murphys and drink guiness on saint patties day and have shamrock tattoos think they are.
                That's literally all there is to irish identity. Just like scotland it has a good PR team. The welsh have no PR team so americans never larp as being welsh.The english have no PR team so anglo americans, who make up the largest group of white americans are a forgotten, ignored ethnic group

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Irish people dislike Americanised vulgarisations of their heritage (though the Dropkick Murphys are fun). The image of the Irishman you believe is the creation of the Irish tourist industry is in fact the traditional stereotype of the Irish in Anglo-Saxon countries, except rehabilitated, adopted and embraced (for the worse imo).

                There's a slight difference between English stereotypes of the Irish vs American and Australian stereotypes. The English one is surprisingly more dignified. They saw us (I don't know how valid this is these days) as simultaneously quite stupid and as potential terrorists but also mystical, poetic and in touch with things from 'the other side'. Americans and Australians historically have a more demeaning if perhaps less overall hostile attitude.They see as vulgar, coarse, spiteful and clownish in a way the English didn't really, and Americans emphasised Irish drunkenness more (the English are also alcoholics and don't care if someone drinks whereas Yankeeland is more puritan).

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The image of the Irishman you believe is the creation of the Irish tourist industry is in fact the traditional stereotype of the Irish in Anglo-Saxon countries, except rehabilitated, adopted and embraced (for the worse imo).
                I never said it was created by the tourist industry. It was created/perpetuated by irish americans and gradually eclipsed the actual stereotypes of the irish and eventually the irish manipulated it to their benefit seeing as they could get bucketloads of cash from it. Apart from the scots and their manufactured, romanticised identity no other ethnic group has done this.
                If the descendents of french huguenots or anglos decided to create their own identity (and folk dress) and market it to their diaspora they could get millions. But they didn't. Almost every folk aspect of america is of English origin yet there are no english heritage parades, americans do not fly english flags because English identity simply became american identity

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Irish identity is strong in America and Australia because it was preserved as a defense against Anglo-Saxon Protestant hostility. If you repeatedly insult, demean and discriminate against a people they'll respond by being assertive in the face of such denigration. This is why Irish identity is so strong in Scotland and so weak in England outside of Liverpool, which has the same historic sectarian issues as Scotland: because the Scots discriminated against the Irish more heavily than the English did.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Hostility to any foreign ethnic group coming in and refusing to assimilate is normal and acceptable
                The Hessians faced some discrimination from the Anglo american majority in the revolutionary war yet they settled down and assimilated and faced nothing after that

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                I think it's clear even to impartial observers here that Anglos have or at least historically had an autistic obsessive hostility to Irish Catholics which they did not have for any other Christian European race. It can't even be called xenophobia because Britain claimed Ireland as an integral part of its territory and denied the historic legitimacy of Irish nationality (while paradoxically racialising and 'othering' the Irish to an absurd degree).

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Hostility to any foreign ethnic group coming in and refusing to assimilate is normal and acceptable
                The Hessians faced some discrimination from the Anglo american majority in the revolutionary war yet they settled down and assimilated and faced nothing after that

                Daily reminder that this was written by the man considered the national folk hero of your own country Australia.

                >But he would be a king to a policeman who for a lazy loafing cowardly billet left the ash corner, deserted the Shamrock, the emblem of true wit and beauty to serve under a flag and nation that has destroyed, massacred and murdered their forefathers by the greatest of torture as rolling them down hill in spiked barrels, pulling their toes and finger nails, and on the wheel and every torture imaginable. More was transported to Van Dieman’s Land to pine their young lives away in starvation and misery among tyrants worse than the promised hell itself. All of true blood, bone and beauty that was not murdered on their own soil or had fled to America or other countries to bloom again another day, were doomed to Port McQuarie, Toweringabbie and Norfolk Island and Emu Plain. And in those places of tyranny and condemnation, many a blooming Irishman rather than subdue to the Saxon yoke were flogged to death and bravely died in servile chains, but true to the Shamrock and a credit to Paddy’s land. What would people say if I became a policeman and took an oath to arrest my brothers, sisters and relations, and convict them by fair or foul means after the conviction of my mother, and the persecutions and insults offered to myself?

                OH NO NO NO IRISHBROS
                https://irishtraditionsonline.com/us-presidents-irish-descent/

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                AHAHAHAH

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >irishtraditionsonline.com
                >SHOP
                >Kilts
                >Kilt accessories
                >Irish tartans

                That's an extremely clueless website, or possibly one which is not even in earnest, given that it sells 'Irish tartans' which nobody in Ireland even pretends exist. It's telling that the example you found is so clueless as to the distinction between Irish and Scots that it literally fucking sells kilts.

                >I don't think Irish Americans would claim anyone who didn't have an Irish Catholic surname as being Irish American. Irish Americans know the difference between the peoples that came from this island and many are well aware of surnames and to what ethnic group from Ireland they'd belong. Ask any Irish Catholic American who was the first Irish president of America and they'll say Kennedy. They have their own identity and it doesn't overlap with the Scots Irish or Anglo Irish. Irish Americans don't count Scots Irish as their own or claim any of their prominent people.
                OH NO NO NO
                we have irish americans claiming people like andrew jackson with NO IRISH BLOOD as irish. we have irish americans claiming kilts (invented by an englishman), bagpipes (not celtic at all and used by hundreds of different cultures) and faux highland art as "irish"

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://www.letsgoireland.com/irish-american-presidents-with-irish-roots/
                OH NO NO NO IRISHBROS
                >President Andrew Jackson was the first Irish American President. His parents’ cottage in Boneybefore can still be visited.
                >May we introduce to you: The first Irish president! President Andrew Jackson is the first Irish American president and the only Irish American president who can claim to be 100% Irish. Both of his parents, Andrew Jackson Sr. and Elizabeth Hutchinson, were from Boneybefore in County Antrim (just outside of Carrickfergus).
                AHAHAHAHAHA

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Ulster Scots historically considered themselves Irish. Shouldn't the self-identification of the men in question be deferred to, even if it was a different kind of Irishness to what we now think of when we hear the word 'Irish'? All of the historic communities resident on Irish soil are Irish to some extent. Would you rather we adopted a blood-and-soil ethnic exclusivism? You're blaming us for having a magnanimous attitude to the colonial population on our soil.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Ulster Scots historically considered themselves Irish
                yeah just like white people in the USA who consider themselves americans. doesn't mean you can put them alongside american indians like sitting bull
                The "Ulster scots" were not irish in any way. The Anglo irish were not irish in any way.
                >Would you rather we adopted a blood-and-soil ethnic exclusivism
                yes

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                American is an Anglo term so Natives calling themselves native American makes no sense since a native American would be a white born in the United States.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                AHAHAHAHAHA at you. Holy fuck is this the cause of all the seething? Some obscure web article written by anonymous author who's probably American and doesn't know any better. Get off the internet and go outside for once for fuck sake.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Some obscure web article written by anonymous author who's probably American and doesn't know any better. Get off the internet and go outside for once for fuck sake.
                there are hundreds of such articles
                why don't you go and put on a "celtic" irish kilt, listen to some celtic music like the dropkick murphy's and drink some green guiness

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Yes, Americans are clueless in general, and they have a skewed and somewhat vulgarised image of their home country, from which they were exiled in the Irish case. That's fine and understandable. That Irish-Americans have some inaccurate ideas doesn't mean there's a global Irish conspiracy to usurp and coopt Anglo-Saxon countries as you seem to think.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >That Irish-Americans have some inaccurate ideas doesn't mean there's a global Irish conspiracy to usurp and coopt Anglo-Saxon countries as you seem to think.
                There is a movement to erase English and Anglo culture worldwide

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                That's ridiculous. English is continuing to supplant and destroy competing languages everywhere. Western Europe is becoming Anglicised to the point that many young Dutch people spend most of their leisure time online consuming English-language media and discussing it. The Anglophone countries are still hegemonic over the seas and via their wars of aggression are continuing to destroy weaker nations. It is true than Anglo-Saxons peoples are being demographically replaced on their lands by their own leaders, which is a lesson that the rank and not file of the Anglo-Saxon world should stop identifying with the interests of the Brahmin caste of their own piratical states. No people is as servile to its own state as the English.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >That's ridiculous. English is continuing to supplant and destroy competing languages everywhere. Western Europe is becoming Anglicised to the point that many young Dutch people spend most of their leisure time online consuming English-language media and discussing it. The Anglophone countries are still hegemonic over the seas and via their wars of aggression are continuing to destroy weaker nations
                Just like Irish American kilt wearing celtic pride dropkick murphys culture is not irish culture, Americanised Globohomo "English" culture is not English culture
                >No people is as servile to its own state as the English
                yeah which is why trade unions and fighting against the state originated in england, why the luddites and other countless groups fought against the state, why english hooligans regularly fight the police and march in the streets, why the founding fathers fought a war against the state

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Fair enough.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >fighting against the state originated in england
                come on now

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >the english are servile despite literally fighting a war against their own government in the colonies
                come on now

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Bro, the experts at irishtraditionsonline.com just told us the founding fathers were Irish, do keep up.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >There is a movement to erase English and Anglo culture worldwide

                Does this movement only exist in your mind? Globalisation is destroying and erasing cultures worldwide not just Anglo. Any peoples that embrace globalization are doomed.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                No, he's right.
                The endgame of Irish republicanism usurping every Anglo Saxon country 1 by 1 until there's a worldwide Gaelic speaking superstate with it's capital in New York. It's all in the proclamation.
                They would have already won in Britain had Fenian agent Corbyn not been defeated.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                the israelites have an eternal vendetta to the anglo race just like they do to the germans and the russians because we pushed them out and expelled them so many times
                this is why they try to destroy anglo identity, demean anglo cultural figures et cetera

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Is it the israelites calling Andrew Jackson Irish on irishtraditionsonline.com?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >skewed and somewhat vulgarised image of their home country,
                But their home country is America

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >we have irish americans claiming people like andrew jackson with NO IRISH BLOOD as irish.

                Show is examples of this.

                >bagpipes (not celtic at all and used by hundreds of different cultures) and faux highland art as "irish"

                We have our kind of bagpipes and have never claimed bagpipes as being of Irish origin or exclusively of our culture. Irish bagpipes and Scots ones are different even and most people associate them with Scotland.

                >faux highland art as "irish"

                Like what exactly? The Highlands and Ireland are culturally similar so would have similar art styles.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Show is examples of this.
                look through the thread
                >We have our kind of bagpipes and have never claimed bagpipes as being of Irish origin or exclusively of our culture. Irish bagpipes and Scots ones are different even and most people associate them with Scotland.
                Yet irish americans play scottish bagpipes instead of ACTUAL IRISH ONES.
                >Like what exactly? The Highlands and Ireland are culturally similar so would have similar art styles.
                yeah irish people totally wore highland scottish kilts

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >yeah irish people totally wore highland scottish kilts

                AKSHUALLY it's possible they did wear something similar to plaid, at least in Gaelic Ulster, which well before the plantation was closely linked to Gaelic Scotland. The earliest purported image of Highlanders in tartan is probably actually of Irishmen.

                Highland dress is derived from the Gaelic léine common to Ireland and Gaelic Scotland originally anyway.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Yet irish americans play scottish bagpipes instead of ACTUAL IRISH ONES.

                Like in pipe bands that take part in parades? Are you seething about Irish people having pipe bands like lots of other countries do? In Irish music it's Uileann pipes that are played not ordinary bagpipes. You'll only here Uilleann pipes in Irish trad music.
                >yeah irish people totally wore highland scottish kilts

                Pipe bands throughout the world wear kilts. You could find a pipe band from Russia and they probably have kilts for their parade too. Irish people did wear kilt like clothes in the past

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Like in pipe bands that take part in parades? Are you seething about Irish people having pipe bands like lots of other countries do? In Irish music it's Uileann pipes that are played not ordinary bagpipes. You'll only here Uilleann pipes in Irish trad music.
                you will literally hear highland pipes played at "irish" parades in america
                >Pipe bands throughout the world wear kilts. You could find a pipe band from Russia and they probably have kilts for their parade too. Irish people did wear kilt like clothes in the past
                no they don't you mong. the bagpipe is not a scottish instrument. english pipers do not wear kilts, french pipers don't, turkish pipers don't, etc etc

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                So they have to use irish ones? cultures form into subcultures and things change and turn into their own native groups. Bulgarian Pipes are superior anyways.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Show is examples of this.
                look through the thread
                >We have our kind of bagpipes and have never claimed bagpipes as being of Irish origin or exclusively of our culture. Irish bagpipes and Scots ones are different even and most people associate them with Scotland.
                Yet irish americans play scottish bagpipes instead of ACTUAL IRISH ONES.
                >Like what exactly? The Highlands and Ireland are culturally similar so would have similar art styles.
                yeah irish people totally wore highland scottish kilts

                So they have to use irish ones? cultures form into subcultures and things change and turn into their own native groups. Bulgarian Pipes are superior anyways.

                Highland bagpipes are a generic international military marching thing, not an ethnic thing. The British army parade style set the standard worldwide so when firefighters, policemen, soldiers etc. march worldwide they dress up like they'er in a Highland regiment.

                This is the kind of pipe Irish people use in actual Irish music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8blbyNHgpO8

                The archetypal Irish instument however is the harp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71_nKjd1j6g

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >irishtraditionsonline.com
                >SHOP
                >Kilts
                >Kilt accessories
                >Irish tartans

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                That's an extremely clueless website, or possibly one which is not even in earnest, given that it sells 'Irish tartans' which nobody in Ireland even pretends exist. It's telling that the example you found is so clueless as to the distinction between Irish and Scots that it literally fucking sells kilts.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >.com
                This is an American site, it’s not ran by Irish people. Please don’t blame us for the ignorance of American diaspora with one Irish great grandfather

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Daily reminder that this was written by the man considered the national folk hero of your own country Australia.

                >But he would be a king to a policeman who for a lazy loafing cowardly billet left the ash corner, deserted the Shamrock, the emblem of true wit and beauty to serve under a flag and nation that has destroyed, massacred and murdered their forefathers by the greatest of torture as rolling them down hill in spiked barrels, pulling their toes and finger nails, and on the wheel and every torture imaginable. More was transported to Van Dieman’s Land to pine their young lives away in starvation and misery among tyrants worse than the promised hell itself. All of true blood, bone and beauty that was not murdered on their own soil or had fled to America or other countries to bloom again another day, were doomed to Port McQuarie, Toweringabbie and Norfolk Island and Emu Plain. And in those places of tyranny and condemnation, many a blooming Irishman rather than subdue to the Saxon yoke were flogged to death and bravely died in servile chains, but true to the Shamrock and a credit to Paddy’s land. What would people say if I became a policeman and took an oath to arrest my brothers, sisters and relations, and convict them by fair or foul means after the conviction of my mother, and the persecutions and insults offered to myself?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >literal regular interactions with irish americans who think that andrew jackson was irish LMAO

                How many exactly? How many people are you basing this notion that Irish people claim Andrew Jackson on? What were the surnames of these people? Were they Irish Catholic or 'Scots irish' who think they're Irish and that Jackson was Irish because his ancestors came from Ireland.

                >Irish americans are the most retarded group in america

                Americans in general are retarded.

                >It's the other way around. Irish people acquiesce to stereotypes about themselves and conform to them because they like to be liked.
                No, they market them. Ireland has a good PR team and irish diaspora have a lot of influence in the media, that is literally all
                >the rest of your paragraph
                I never said that the irish were rowdy drunks, that is how they market themselves though and that's what americans who listen to the dropkick murphys and drink guiness on saint patties day and have shamrock tattoos think they are.
                That's literally all there is to irish identity. Just like scotland it has a good PR team. The welsh have no PR team so americans never larp as being welsh.The english have no PR team so anglo americans, who make up the largest group of white americans are a forgotten, ignored ethnic group

                >I never said that the irish were rowdy drunks, that is how they market themselves though and that's what americans who listen to the dropkick murphys and drink guiness on saint patties day and have shamrock tattoos think they are.

                That's definitely not how people in Ireland market themselves and comes from America.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >How many exactly? How many people are you basing this notion that Irish people claim Andrew Jackson on? What were the surnames of these people? Were they Irish Catholic or 'Scots irish' who think they're Irish and that Jackson was Irish because his ancestors came from Ireland.
                literally just search up irish american presidents and you will find HUNDREDS of articles claiming andrew jackson (and others) as pure irishmen
                >That's definitely not how people in Ireland market themselves and comes from America.
                i never said that's how they market themselves

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >literally just search up irish american presidents and you will find HUNDREDS of articles claiming andrew jackson (and others) as pure irishmen

                Americans don't know the difference between peoples who came from Ireland and it's most likely that's its not Irish Americans making these claims either because they tend to know the difference especially the ones along the north east coast. A lot of Irish Americans have very Gaelic surnames and recognize what is and isn't Irish Catholic surnames like the ones of the people they grew up around if they were from a place with a lot if people of Irish decent. I can't believe the amount of seething over something so dumb.

                What would happen if england gave them Ulster?

                At least a third of Ulster is in the Republic of Ireland and a good chunk of what makes up NI is Irish Catholic majority therefore Irish and the local governments in their areas are run by them and the culture is Irish Catholic culture and the important local historical figures and history of the areas is that of their ancestors that lived their before them. NI also has its own government too and half of it is Irish Catholic parties. The only parts you could say are really British are the ones predominantly of people that are of British ancestry in the east of Ulster.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Irish Americans don't use Andrew Jackson, they say hes Ulster, Scotch and various other Anglo Terms of Protty origin. We separate the two.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                i have shown multiple times irish americans (the same ones who think kilts are irish) claiming andrew jackson as their own

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u9DKnVJ-02k

                >USA Kilts & Celtic Traditions
                so a bunch of larpers who think kilts are an indigenous celtic tradition that stem back to roman times

                So they have to use irish ones? cultures form into subcultures and things change and turn into their own native groups. Bulgarian Pipes are superior anyways.

                if you're talking about irish pride and you wear the clothing and play the instruments of a different nation then you're a retard

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >so a bunch of larpers who think kilts are an indigenous celtic tradition that stem back to roman times
                yes i actually agree about this though they seem to have seethed hard about New York Cameroon Highlander regiment was being used as an Official Kilt by Americans even though it wasn't used in Battle apparently. They are extremely hypocritical and dont seem to understand Scottish and Kilts are Germanic. We've had plenty of threads talking about it.
                I disagree with the Irish Americans not being able to use other pipes. They're Irish-American not Irish. Unless they come up with a new name to refer themselves as a fucking complaining about a pipe they use for fuck sake lol

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >yes i actually agree about this though they seem to have seethed hard about New York Cameroon Highlander regiment was being used as an Official Kilt by Americans even though it wasn't used in Battle apparently. They are extremely hypocritical and dont seem to understand Scottish and Kilts are Germanic. We've had plenty of threads talking about it.
                link?
                the fake faux celtic irish highland scottish culture that has arisen and appeals exclusively to dumb americans is the worst thing that has ever happened to both scottish and irish history and culture
                there is nothing wrong with the genuine culture of both of those places but the dumb revival larp movements have ruined them

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                You massively overestimate the extent to which the Americanised version has contaminated the home version in either Scotland or Ireland. I've never seen an Irish person were a tartan kilt in any context, ever. In Scotland they say the way you can spot the non-Scot in the crowd is he's wearing a kilt. To the extent that American vulgarisations have harmed Irish culture it's through the sheer cringiness of it alienating Irish people from the actual reality behind these bastardisations, not in these bastardisations becoming adopted at home.

                The one exception of course is the role of the American diaspora in contributing to the language shift to English. Irish people from the Great Famine on, and this is still true to an extent even today, despite Ireland being prosperous now, have been 'raised for emigration', with a utilitarian Anglophone education designed to prepare them to make a seamless tradition to being American.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                how the fuck do actual irish people feel seeing their culture reduced to kilts, tartan, "st pattys day" pride, green guiness, leprechauns and faux celtic art?
                feels good knowing that aside from a few exceptions my culture has been overlooked and unfettered from globohomo marketing and cringey 19th century revival movements and i have access to genuine culture, song, dance and folk practise from mediaeval times (and further back)

                In defence of 'faux Celtic', Celtic spirals and knotwork are to a great extent the Irish vernacular, going arguably as far back as the pre-Celtic Boyne Valley tomb decorations. In the late medieval era there was a deliberate revival of the Book of Kells style of manuscript illumination. There has been a continuous use of 'Celtic style' in Ireland since pre-history, or at least many separate 'Celtic Revivals'.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                The Irish Kern in this 16th century drawing are wearing jackets decorated with what we could call 'Celtic' patterns. You can see a pattern in the same style on the shoulder pad of the central figure in Lucas d'Heere's drawing from around the same time.

                [...]
                It's often forgotten that Ireland (as well as most countries to be honest) has historic bagpipes too. Uilleann pipes are modern. The old Irish bagpipe was something not unlike what evolved into the 'great Highland bagpipe'.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                The illustrations in this Irish medical manuscript from c. 1564 (Egerton MS 88, f 65r.) are recognisably in the same tradition as the 9th century Book of Kells seven centuries earlier.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Also don't forget that 'Celtic Revival' can be done well. See the Oratory of the Sacred Heart of St Mary's Dominican Convent in Dublin.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                This Pic is a medieval tomb from the cathedral on the rock of Cashel and has Celtic art.

                i have shown multiple times irish americans (the same ones who think kilts are irish) claiming andrew jackson as their own
                [...]
                >USA Kilts & Celtic Traditions
                so a bunch of larpers who think kilts are an indigenous celtic tradition that stem back to roman times
                [...]
                if you're talking about irish pride and you wear the clothing and play the instruments of a different nation then you're a retard

                >i have shown multiple times irish americans (the same ones who think kilts are irish) claiming andrew jackson as their own

                Irish Americans know kilts are Scottish and you're seething because of the having generic pipe bands in their parades. People are copying the style and sound of military pipe bands and not claiming it as their own. Pipe bands are popular throughout the western world.

                For Andrew Jackson all you showed was a few obscure websites from America listing Irish American presidents because they have links to Ireland and the author doesn't know any better. You haven't proved anything.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Appalachian dance has also changed from older generations. The older folk said the younger ones like to dance in more unison compared to them. This was the 80s or 90s. It was compared to military marching iirc.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Irish Americans know kilts are Scottish and you're seething because of the having generic pipe bands in their parades. People are copying the style and sound of military pipe bands and not claiming it as their own. Pipe bands are popular throughout the western world.
                no they don't, seeing as there's an "irish" goods website selling kilts yoou mong

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Why all this seething in this thread over one clueless American website? How can you criticise the Irish for talking about actual historic oppression when there's several of you in this thread seething over completely trivial bullshit like this?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >irish americans totally don't think kilts and andrew jackson are irish
                >get proven wrong
                >seethe

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                You've given one example and I don't dispute it. If your point is that diaspora Americans are often clueless, that's true, but your point isn't anti-American, it's anti-Irish. I fail to see how some well-meaning Americans not fully understanding the difference between Catholic Irish and Ulster Scots means that there is a global Irish conspiracy to usurp the heritage of all Anglo-Saxon countries.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >You've given one example and I don't dispute it. If your point is that diaspora Americans are often clueless, that's true, but your point isn't anti-American, it's anti-Irish. I fail to see how some well-meaning Americans not fully understanding the difference between Catholic Irish and Ulster Scots means that there is a global Irish conspiracy to usurp the heritage of all Anglo-Saxon countries.
                Except they do
                They claim all Anglo cultural figures as irish, they claim our music as irish, they claim our culture as irish. they pushed us out of the cities we cleared from injun infested wilderness. they allied with the israelites because longshanks kicked them out

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Except they do
                They claim all Anglo cultural figures as irish, they claim our music as irish, they claim our culture as irish. they pushed us out of the cities we cleared from injun infested wilderness. they allied with the israelites because longshanks kicked them out

                Based

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                your culture has been reduced to plastic paddies wearing kilts and claiming highland pipes and drinking guiness are traditional irish culture, we english have real culture with no influence from cringe americanisation and globohomo

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                your culture produced jk rowling

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >we english have real culture with no influence from cringe americanisation and globohomo

                genuine english culture is better than genuine irish culture, most of which was made up by romanticist irish revivalists.

                [...]

                not guilt, we just hate american retards who larp as irishmen (despite a huge number of them having anglo ulster scots blood) and the actual paddies who systematically persecuted anglos out of the cities they founded

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >genuine english culture is better than genuine irish culture, most of which was made up by romanticist irish revivalists.

                I hear this all the time but I never get any actual details on what specifically was made up by romantic revivalists. Cue you shouting something about plastic paddies and kilts.

                >not guilt, we just hate american retards who larp as irishmen (despite a huge number of them having anglo ulster scots blood) and the actual paddies who systematically persecuted anglos out of the cities they founded

                You 'hate american retards who larp as irishmen' and yet simultaneously treat them as synonymous with Irishmen, as shown by the fact that within the very same sentence you call them 'the actual paddies who systematically persecuted anglos out of the cities they founded'. Are you people capable of having a single fairminded, coherent non-contradictory thought about the Irish?

                When you close your eyes, when you sleep, when you dream - answer my honestly - do you see a big burly plastic paddy lift his green kilt to offer you a taste of his bagpipe chanter?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I hear this all the time but I never get any actual details on what specifically was made up by romantic revivalists. Cue you shouting something about plastic paddies and kilts.
                i've said multiple times already
                if in irish parades people actually dressed like historical irish people it would be fine and i wouldn't care but they dress in highland dress which itself is a larp
                >You 'hate american retards who larp as irishmen' and yet simultaneously treat them as synonymous with Irishmen, as shown by the fact that within the very same sentence you call them 'the actual paddies who systematically persecuted anglos out of the cities they founded'. >Are you people capable of having a single fairminded, coherent non-contradictory thought about the Irish?
                There are two types of plastic paddies. One are people with no irish ancestry who larp as irish anyway, which is common in the south and in the west where people with ulster scots ancestry pretend to be irish because it's more interesting, and plastic paddies in boston who are actually irish but just as fake as the former
                >When you close your eyes, when you sleep, when you dream - answer my honestly - do you see a big burly plastic paddy lift his green kilt to offer you a taste of his bagpipe chanter?
                stop projecting, fenian

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >if in irish parades people actually dressed like historical irish people it would be fine and i wouldn't care but they dress in highland dress which itself is a larp

                As people have explained to you multiple times, highland dress is a generic worldwide uniform for military and police pipe bands, not an ethnic larp.

                >plastic paddies in boston who are actually irish but just as fake as the former

                Why this schizophrenic stance? Irish-Americans to you are both simultaneously 'not Irish' and 'the Irish'. You blame 'the Irish' for silly things these Irish-Americans say and yet you deny these 'plastic paddies' have any authentic ethnic identity at the same time.

                >stop projecting, fenian

                And with the thread hitting the bump limit let us conclude this argument occasioned by your frantic and passionate effusions about burly men in kilts.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >As people have explained to you multiple times, highland dress is a generic worldwide uniform for military and police pipe bands, not an ethnic larp.
                No it isn't
                >Why this schizophrenic stance? Irish-Americans to you are both simultaneously 'not Irish' and 'the Irish'. You blame 'the Irish' for silly things these Irish-Americans say and yet you deny these 'plastic paddies' have any authentic ethnic identity at the same time.
                not an argument
                >And with the thread hitting the bump limit let us conclude this argument occasioned by your frantic and passionate effusions about burly men in kilts.
                paddy projection
                british people live in your head rent free

                >After the 1290 Edict of Expulsion of israelites from England, israelites living in the English Pale around Dublin may have had to leave English jurisdiction.
                >In 1656 Cromwell made a verbal promise, backed by the Council of State, to allow israelites to return to Britain and practice their faith freely. As a result, israelites from Holland, Spain and Portugal came to Britain. They became more and more integrated into British society.

                not an argument

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Make claim
                >show evidence against said claim
                Who was it that destroyed South Africa?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >It follows that many such immigrants would have spoken Irish as their primary language. In fact, historians estimate that a quarter to a third of Famine immigrants were Gaeilgeoirí, or Irish speakers, and undoubtedly counted monoglots in their numbers. Some of the last Gaelic speakers were Irish Americans, the map in red is where Irish Americans come from and its all the areas the least affected by Normans or British.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                we have over 30 million catholic Irish posterity + Scots-Irish. Funny how Americans whose ancestors were enemies are now both Americans and equally some of the best soldiers we've had in the Military. Your the one with animosity. If you didn't know most of us would say which state we come from if talking to a foreigner since our surnames are self evident of where our grandpas had come from.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >we english have real culture with no influence from cringe americanisation and globohomo

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                You reminded me of an Irish guy who got so mad when I proved to him the song ‘Shoals of Herring’ was written by Ewan MacColl (born James Henry Miller) in the 1950’s and is not a centuries old Irish folk song called the Shoals of Erin. kek.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >After the 1290 Edict of Expulsion of israelites from England, israelites living in the English Pale around Dublin may have had to leave English jurisdiction.
                >In 1656 Cromwell made a verbal promise, backed by the Council of State, to allow israelites to return to Britain and practice their faith freely. As a result, israelites from Holland, Spain and Portugal came to Britain. They became more and more integrated into British society.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                The illustrations in this Irish medical manuscript from c. 1564 (Egerton MS 88, f 65r.) are recognisably in the same tradition as the 9th century Book of Kells seven centuries earlier.

                Also don't forget that 'Celtic Revival' can be done well. See the Oratory of the Sacred Heart of St Mary's Dominican Convent in Dublin.

                what we call "celtic" knotwork is literally anglo saxon knotwork

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                I have no expertise in this area and can't say whether or not there's any direct continuity but the later 'Celtic' or 'Insular' style looks remarkably like the pre-Celtic style of art in neolithic Ireland. Given that these tombs were centrally important to Irish mythology I don't think it's at all impossible that there was some continuity from the pre-Celtic 'spiral' style to the later 'Celtic spiral' style.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                It’s wasn't started by Americans though. It was fake from the start.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >ah toi toi toi toi six hunned hyeahs o’ hinglish hoprreshun…
                >WOAH is dat sum free land?!?! Begorrah dere be abo savages here
                >let’s push them off a cliff and call this place ‘Victory Hill’.
                >ah toi toi toi toi toi toi ah tis so tragic what the evil hinglish do to us…

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                I have seen absolutely zero evidence that the Victory Hill / Cape Grim massacre was perpetrated by Irishmen. I've noticed that colonial Anglos whose ancestors would have hated the Irish on racial grounds now try to excuse their anti-Irishness on the grounds that the Irish were supposedly extra-turbo-racist. There's been a huge historiographical campaign to depict the Irish as an especially and unusually bigoted people which itself has greater roots in anti-Irish bigotry than it does in the evidence. In fact the evidence suggests that Aborigines regarded the Irish in much more favourable terms than they did the English and Scots.

                >The Irish have fared well in some Indigenous narratives, including those of the North Australian Gurindji. These strongly support the ‘good coloniser’ as an Irishman myth – at least when it comes to Ned Kelly and a notion that his country ‘Island’ was a good place. Unlike the Englishman ‘Captain Cook’ who travelled in the ‘morally wrong’ direction and thus did things the wrong way in regard to Aboriginal law, Gurindji stories feature a mythologised Ned Kelly who travelled across their country from ‘Island’ in the right direction, along the right song-line and on the ‘good tracks’ – all according to the prescribed Indigenous law of the country.
                Anne McGrath, 'Shamrock Aborigines: the Irish, the Aboriginal Australians and their children', Aboriginal History Volume 34, 2010.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                As I read through McGrath's article I saw this passage, very typical of academic writing concerning anything involving the Irish in the new world:

                >Yet, some accounts of Irish colonising anxiety are disturbing. Pastoralist Alexander Crawford, an Ulster man who had moved onto Aboriginal lands in what is now the Murchison district of New South Wales, was one of the better off, Protestant immigrants from Ireland... Crawford was certainly involved in violent captures and cruelties towards Aboriginal men killing sheep,and in May 1883, Aboriginal people nearly killed him in retaliation.

                Usually when you hear about the horrific crimes committed by the 'Irish' abroad they turn out to have been committed by Anglo-Irish or Ulster Scots.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Look Paddy, you can spit out as many words as you want. At the end of the day, Irish hunted down and lynched Africans in response to conscription, slaughtered Aborigines in their homes and forced them to convert to a foreign religion, exterminated the Tasmanians, and slaughtered Cree, Sioux, Iroquois, Mohawk, and Blackfoots to the point of near extinction to steal their land. So shut the fuck up about the English. You profited from them so much that the Irish now number in the tens of millions across the planet and are some of the richest on earth as opposed to being a backwater, forgotten people like the Beothuk (who you exterminated).

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                All true,
                The greatest deceit the paddies ever pulled was that there was ever any such thing as a British empire. It was actually the Irish empire.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Irish lynched Africans in response to conscription

                I've looked into this and I honestly can't find any evidence as of yet that the burning of the Colored Orphans Asylum or indeed the New York Draft Riots at the early stage was an Irish (or specifically Irish) thing. It happened on Monday, before the riot turned acquired its recognisably Irish character. There were huge numbers of German immigrants as well native Yankees in NY who took part. I get the sense that the image of the Irish burning down a particularly anti-black demographic is based more on received wisdom rather than actual engagement with the contemporary evidence. I've concluded the standard story of the Draft Riots is yet another Yankee black legend, but American historiography is so poor it's hard to discern anything from the books published about the event.

                >By supper time, one group had set fire to the splendid Colored Orphan Asylum on Fifth Avenue and another began attacking black men and boys in the tenement district along the downtown waterfront... Late Monday we also find the earliest evidence of some rioters abandoning the violence and in many cases joining forces with city authorities to protect property and suppress the uprising... Only as the violence entered its second day—the rioters of limited aims now retired and the more ambitious crowds in full force—did it become possible to identify each of the riot's constituencies. Monday's rioters were by no means all Irish and Catholic. Some were German-speaking (one observer thought the early morning procession looked like "some German festival") and some were native-born and Protestant. Artisans in the building trades, who formed the backbone of the uptown fire companies, figured prominently in reports of the Monday morning factory closings and antidraft procession.
                Ivar Bernstein, The New York City Draft Riots: Their Significance for American Society and Politics in the Age of the Civil War (New York, 1990) 20, 23.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's also important to remember that the death toll of the Draft Riots almost entirely consisted of Irish rioters being shot by the army, not black being lynched, as is usually implied.

                Look Paddy, you can spit out as many words as you want. At the end of the day, Irish hunted down and lynched Africans in response to conscription, slaughtered Aborigines in their homes and forced them to convert to a foreign religion, exterminated the Tasmanians, and slaughtered Cree, Sioux, Iroquois, Mohawk, and Blackfoots to the point of near extinction to steal their land. So shut the fuck up about the English. You profited from them so much that the Irish now number in the tens of millions across the planet and are some of the richest on earth as opposed to being a backwater, forgotten people like the Beothuk (who you exterminated).

                >exterminated the Tasmanians

                This is a gross calumny. The most you can say is that there may have been some Irishmen among the convicts who exterminated the Tasmanians in the Black War, but I did not find any. I wordsearched the word 'Irish' in Nicholas Clements's The Black War: Fear, Sex and Resistance in Tasmania and found nothing (granted I don't currently have access to text and may be misremembering here). Stop blaming us for Anglo-Saxon genocidalism.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                No shit, really???? I would want the army and police to shoot you too if you were going around lynching me just because of my skin color after you were done burning down my house and business.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I've looked into this and I honestly can't find any evidence as of yet that the burning of the Colored Orphans Asylum or indeed the New York Draft Riots at the early stage was an Irish (or specifically Irish) thing. It happened on Monday, before the riot turned acquired its recognisably Irish character. There were huge numbers of German immigrants as well native Yankees in NY who took part. I get the sense that the image of the Irish burning down a particularly anti-black demographic is based more on received wisdom rather than actual engagement with the contemporary evidence. I've concluded the standard story of the Draft Riots is yet another Yankee black legend, but American historiography is so poor it's hard to discern anything from the books published about the event.
                AHHAHAHA
                mate just admit the irish did some bad shit in history fucking hell it could rain and you would blame it on the british

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                My understanding from reading the research is that the Monday rioters were mostly cliques of Yankee firefighters known as the 'Black Joke' who resented that they were not being exempted from the draft as they had customarily expected and burnt down the Orphanage out of spite. American firefighters were weirdly arson-happy back in the 19th century. The Irish rioters looted, rampaged and attacked Irish prostitutes who catered to black clients but don't seem to have participated in the actual lynchings to any appreciable extent. The whole story about the Draft Riots is a Yankee anti-Catholic black legend filtered through traditional conceptions of the supposed 1641 massacres.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Irish lynched Africans in response to conscription

                I've looked into this and I honestly can't find any evidence as of yet that the burning of the Colored Orphans Asylum or indeed the New York Draft Riots at the early stage was an Irish (or specifically Irish) thing. It happened on Monday, before the riot turned acquired its recognisably Irish character. There were huge numbers of German immigrants as well native Yankees in NY who took part. I get the sense that the image of the Irish burning down a particularly anti-black demographic is based more on received wisdom rather than actual engagement with the contemporary evidence. I've concluded the standard story of the Draft Riots is yet another Yankee black legend, but American historiography is so poor it's hard to discern anything from the books published about the event.

                >By supper time, one group had set fire to the splendid Colored Orphan Asylum on Fifth Avenue and another began attacking black men and boys in the tenement district along the downtown waterfront... Late Monday we also find the earliest evidence of some rioters abandoning the violence and in many cases joining forces with city authorities to protect property and suppress the uprising... Only as the violence entered its second day—the rioters of limited aims now retired and the more ambitious crowds in full force—did it become possible to identify each of the riot's constituencies. Monday's rioters were by no means all Irish and Catholic. Some were German-speaking (one observer thought the early morning procession looked like "some German festival") and some were native-born and Protestant. Artisans in the building trades, who formed the backbone of the uptown fire companies, figured prominently in reports of the Monday morning factory closings and antidraft procession.
                Ivar Bernstein, The New York City Draft Riots: Their Significance for American Society and Politics in the Age of the Civil War (New York, 1990) 20, 23.

                My understanding from reading the research is that the Monday rioters were mostly cliques of Yankee firefighters known as the 'Black Joke' who resented that they were not being exempted from the draft as they had customarily expected and burnt down the Orphanage out of spite. American firefighters were weirdly arson-happy back in the 19th century. The Irish rioters looted, rampaged and attacked Irish prostitutes who catered to black clients but don't seem to have participated in the actual lynchings to any appreciable extent. The whole story about the Draft Riots is a Yankee anti-Catholic black legend filtered through traditional conceptions of the supposed 1641 massacres.

                Adrian Cook's The Armies of the Streets: The New York City Draft Riots of 1863 (Kentucky, 1974) compiles information about all the known perpetrators of crimes during the Draft Riots. Of the three individuals connected with crimes in the vicinity of the Colored Orphans Asylum - John Everett, Patrick Golding, and William Rigby - none have a distinctively Irish surname, although Golding is a surname found in Ireland as well as Britain. It was noted that the Monday rioters were not prosecuted or investigated adequately - presumably because they were well-connected Yankee firefighters and artisans and not the Irish who came to the fore later on account of a genuine civic grievance and were brutally repressed by the army.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Irish lynched Africans in response to conscription

                I've looked into this and I honestly can't find any evidence as of yet that the burning of the Colored Orphans Asylum or indeed the New York Draft Riots at the early stage was an Irish (or specifically Irish) thing. It happened on Monday, before the riot turned acquired its recognisably Irish character. There were huge numbers of German immigrants as well native Yankees in NY who took part. I get the sense that the image of the Irish burning down a particularly anti-black demographic is based more on received wisdom rather than actual engagement with the contemporary evidence. I've concluded the standard story of the Draft Riots is yet another Yankee black legend, but American historiography is so poor it's hard to discern anything from the books published about the event.

                >By supper time, one group had set fire to the splendid Colored Orphan Asylum on Fifth Avenue and another began attacking black men and boys in the tenement district along the downtown waterfront... Late Monday we also find the earliest evidence of some rioters abandoning the violence and in many cases joining forces with city authorities to protect property and suppress the uprising... Only as the violence entered its second day—the rioters of limited aims now retired and the more ambitious crowds in full force—did it become possible to identify each of the riot's constituencies. Monday's rioters were by no means all Irish and Catholic. Some were German-speaking (one observer thought the early morning procession looked like "some German festival") and some were native-born and Protestant. Artisans in the building trades, who formed the backbone of the uptown fire companies, figured prominently in reports of the Monday morning factory closings and antidraft procession.
                Ivar Bernstein, The New York City Draft Riots: Their Significance for American Society and Politics in the Age of the Civil War (New York, 1990) 20, 23.

                It's also important to remember that the death toll of the Draft Riots almost entirely consisted of Irish rioters being shot by the army, not black being lynched, as is usually implied.

                [...]
                >exterminated the Tasmanians

                This is a gross calumny. The most you can say is that there may have been some Irishmen among the convicts who exterminated the Tasmanians in the Black War, but I did not find any. I wordsearched the word 'Irish' in Nicholas Clements's The Black War: Fear, Sex and Resistance in Tasmania and found nothing (granted I don't currently have access to text and may be misremembering here). Stop blaming us for Anglo-Saxon genocidalism.

                No shit, really???? I would want the army and police to shoot you too if you were going around lynching me just because of my skin color after you were done burning down my house and business.

                >It must be remembered that in many of the wards of the City during the late riot, the Irish were the primary, and often only, friends of law and order. That it was the Irish that risked their lives at 43rd street and 5th avenue at the Colored Orphan Asylum to save the little children from certain death at the hands of the mob. That many of the police officers injured during the riot were Irish. And it must also be noted that Police Officer Paddy McCafferty put his body between the mob and 20 colored children and brought them to the safety of the 35th precinct at great peril to his own life. Further, that to a man, the Catholic Priesthood which is almost entirely Irish in our city used their influence on the side of law and order.
                Harper's Weekly, August 1863.

                In other words we no evidence the Irish were responsible for burning the Colored Orphans Asylum, much evidence against it, and in fact positive that at least one Irishman risked his life to save the orphaned children from burning, and yet the Draft Riots are remembered primarily in American culture as an episode in which an evil racist Irish mob burned down an orphanage out of gratuitous anti-black hatred. The Draft Riots are really two separate stories: one of typical white American sadism causing Yankees, Germans, and perhaps some degenerated Irish to chimp out and start killing blacks, and the other a story of Irish being slaughtered in an against of civil disobedience to prevent themselves being press-ganged into a war in which they had legitimate reason to believe they would be placed on the front lines deliberately as canon fodder to get them killed for ethnic reasons whereas rich Yankees were able to buy themselves out of the draft..

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Richard Jensen's denial of the 'No Irish Need Apply' signs is an apt reminder that you should never trust Yankee (or Anglo in general) historiography when it comes to the Irish (or indeed most things). He got btfo'd by a literal highschool girl who found tonnes of these signs.

                >Negative investment in human capital involved internal self-defeating factors, such as heavy alcoholism, weak motivation, poor work habits, and disorganized family life.
                >Perhaps the slogan has reemerged in recent years as the Irish feel the political need to be bona-fide victims. The Potato Famine of course had all the ingredients to make them victims, but it will not do to have the villains overseas: there must be American villains. If we conclude the Irish were systematically deluding themselves over a period of a century or more about their primary symbol of job discrimination, the next question to ask is, was it all imaginary or was there a real basis for the grievances about the economic hostility of Protestants to Irish aspirations? Historians need to be critical. Because a group truly believes it was a victim, does not make it so. On the other hand, the Irish chip-on-the-shoulder attitude may have generated a high level of group solidarity in both politics and the job market, which could have had a significant impact on the on the occupational experience of the Irish.
                Richard Jensen, "No Irish Need Apply": A Myth of Victimization, Journal of Social History 36.2 (2002) 405-429.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Cree, Sioux, Iroquois, Mohawk, and Blackfoots... people like the Beothuk (who you exterminated).

                This post is so mind-bogglingly disingenuous I'm at a loss for words. You're treating every instance in which Anglo-Saxons exterminated Native Americans in which an Irishman was present within a 50 mile radius as a genocide committed by 'the Irish'. It is true that Irishmen were involved in the rank and file of the US army in many of these atrocities, and in some cases, like General Sheridan, in positions of command, but they were nowhere near the organs of policymaking, were not architects of US military objectives, and had no agency or influence as distinctive Irish bloc, owing to their low prestige at the time. The worst that can be said of these Irishmen (and it is indeed alas bad) is that they were successfully assimilated to American culture, and loyally following the orders and philosophy of their adopted country's army. Blaming the Irish as a whole for Irishmen being in the American army is like blaming the Natives for their own extermination because some tribes were allied with the US against others.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                This is laughable. According to you, because natives fought in the armies and served as scouts they actually exterminated themselves. Fucking lol brainlet

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Irish Catholics literally were second class citizens though under the Penal Laws, which lasted from the 17th century up until the early to mid 19th century (the last of the penal laws was abolished in 1869).
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_Laws

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        They should have converted then

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          The Protestants didn't want to encourage conversions because a mass conversion of the Irish Catholic population would have resulted in the English/Anglo-Irish losing their slave caste. There are tonnes of pamphlets from the eighteenth century from Anglo-Irish Protestants about how missionaries (i.e. those who severely wanted to convert the Irish) were undermining the 'English interest' in Ireland. In other words, better that the Irish papists languish in error and be damned eternally for it than that the English colony in Ireland be deprived of its labour force.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            *those who sincerely wanted to convert the Irish

  21. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    ira=mossad funded
    ira learnt their tactics from israeli terrorist groups that operated in palestine against british rule

  22. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    What kind of genocide let’s the Irish leave for America? They could’ve just as easily refused to let anyone leave and far more would have died.

  23. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    They’ve got no answer for you, lad. They’re too busy forelock tugging and doffing their caps this week

  24. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >hes back

  25. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >The source of all evil lies in the race, the Celtic race of Ireland. There is no getting over historical facts ... The race must be forced from the soil; by fair means, if possible; still they must leave. England's safety requires it. I speak not of the justice of the cause; nations must ever act as Machiavelli advised: look to yourself. The Orange [Order] of Ireland is a Saxon confederation for the clearing the land of all papists and Jacobites; this means Celts. If left to themselves, they would clear them out, as Cromwell proposed, by the sword; it would not require six weeks to accomplish the work. But the Encumbered Estates Relief Bill will do it better.
    Robert Knox, The Races of Men, pp. 253-54, 1850.

    The English Field Marshal Lord French, the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland at the time of the War of Independence, describing the demographic background of the circumstance:

    >The history of Ireland has never changed; trouble, repression, a period of apparent calm; when the circle is finished it begins again. The present disorders? That comes of having 100,000 surplus young men. For five years, because of the row, emigration has been suspended: hence all the trouble.

    The depopulation policy was consistently maintained by the British government, in one form or another, from the Great Famine until the War of Independence.

    Pic related is from Sylvain Briollay's Ireland in Rebellion (1922).

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The change which has taken place in the population and condition of Ireland is inadequately expressed in the fact, prodigious as it is, that during the ten years ending with 1850, about 1,600,000 have emigrated from that island...The change is inadequately expressed in the figures at foot of the census return, putting the decennial decrease at 1,659,300. . . . As for Ireland herself, we resign ourselves without reserve, though not entirely without misgiving, to her continued depopulation until only a half or a third of the 9,000,000 claimed for her by O'Connell remains. We may possibly live to see the day when her chief produce will be cattle, and English and Scotch the majority in her population.
      >The nine or ten millions who by that time will have settled in the United States cannot well be much less friendly, and will certainly be much better customers than they now are. When the Celt has crossed the Atlantic, he begins, for the first time in his life, to consume the manufactures of this country, and indirectly contribute to its customs. Unquestionably, there is much that is consolatory, and even comforting, in the extraordinary turn that we witness in Irish affairs.
      Editor of the Times Newspaper, 2nd January 1852.

      Pic related is from Henry George's 'Social Problems', 1883.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Why did the Janny delete that post? Anyway, I searched the archives for it

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Janny trying to keep Paddy down.

  26. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Jannies can you please tell me why this post got deleted? : https://desuarchive.org/his/thread/13406551/#q13409742

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Reposting ftr:

      The English are the only reason they have civilization and industrialization. With a lesser neighbor, they'd be much poorer. Obviously this process of civilization had an incredible human cost, but when has that ever not been the case?

      England's economic interest in Ireland was not in developing an industrial economy but in siphoning wealth (to an extraordinarily voracious degree) from an underdeveloped breadbasket to the metropole. English and Anglo-Irish landlords, often absentees, drained centuries of wealth from Ireland to London while bleeding Ireland's population through eviction and forced migration to America and elsewhere.

      >As there is little aristocracy in Dublin there are few lordly dwellings besides the Vice-regal castle. This is very striking in this country of lords and serfs. The masters of the land, mostly of English origin, do not care at all to live in the capital of Ireland; all the time that they do not spend on their property they prefer to beguile away in London, Paris, Naples or elsewhere... The clearest of the nett product of the country's one industry — agricultural industry, — is poured outside it every year, without having circulated in Ireland, without having strengthened the local commerce or even invigorated agriculture itself, without having contributed to the well-being of a single Irishman. Let us set down this nett product, the Irish aggregate rental, at its lowest estimate, £8,000,000 per annum, a sum much inferior to the nominal one, and admit that one-half of it is sent abroad to absentee landlords. There we have £4,000,000 leaving the island every year without conferring the slightest benefit to any one of its inhabitants. In ten years' time that represents 40 millions sterling; in fifty years, 200 millions sterling, or five milliards francs, that Ireland has, so to speak, thrown into the sea, for that is to her the precise equivalent of such a continuous deperdition of capital. . . . And this has lasted for three centuries ! . . .
      Paschal Grousset, Ireland's Disease: Notes and Impressions, translated by Philip Darryl (Paris/New York 1888), 17-18.

      Pic related is from David Ross Locke's Nasby in Exile (1882).

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        yeah the british curtailed economic development in Ireland see picrel

  27. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >the english language is english culture
    wrong
    English culture is robin hood, wassailing,morris dancing, maypole, green man, cider drinking, individualism, ruralism, right to bear arms, yeomanry
    the shit that came in the industrial era and the wogs and pakis on telly are not and will never be english culture, much of which has unforunately died in the home nation it sprung from but have survived in places such as America

  28. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    how the fuck do actual irish people feel seeing their culture reduced to kilts, tartan, "st pattys day" pride, green guiness, leprechauns and faux celtic art?
    feels good knowing that aside from a few exceptions my culture has been overlooked and unfettered from globohomo marketing and cringey 19th century revival movements and i have access to genuine culture, song, dance and folk practise from mediaeval times (and further back)

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      The kitschiness of Irish-American culture does not strike us a painful reflection on the relative poverty/richness of actual Irish culture because exactly the same happens with Italian-Americans, who nobody would deny come from one of the richest cultures in Europe, who are associated in the American imagination with wise guys, Jersey Shore guidos, Olive Garden and 'Italian sauce'. America Disneylandifies everything.

      Unfortunately however Irish people, largely due to the low self-esteem produced by a consistently traumatic history until very recently, have a philistine attitude to our own genuine culture, language, literature, music, dance, folk beliefs etc.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The kitschiness of Irish-American culture does not strike us a painful reflection on the relative poverty/richness of actual Irish culture because exactly the same happens with Italian-Americans, who nobody would deny come from one of the richest cultures in Europe, who are associated in the American imagination with wise guys, Jersey Shore guidos, Olive Garden and 'Italian sauce'. America Disneylandifies everything.
        the difference is that nobody associates italian american culture with actual italians. italian american culture has no risk of "italian-americanifying" actual italian culture. Italian americans only really brought their food, italian folk music and mythology is basically unheard of and at no risk of being disneyfied
        Irish americans however have made it so that drinking green beer on saint patties day and dressing as a leprechaun is seen as ancient indigenous celtic irish culture, kilts are an irish celtic thing, dropkick murphy's is indigenous irish folk music, so on

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          Yeah, to be honest it is pretty fucking annoying. We're sandwiched between the two Anglo-Saxons superpowers and their pop culture determines how the world sees us, just as for centuries British (mis)interpretations of Irish history passed unchallenged in the wider world.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            American Irish culture, which is so radically different from irish culture it may be viewed as a different thing, has eclipsed actual irish culture to such an extent that it's seen as more genuine than the actual thing.
            this faux celtic knotwork kilt culture has grown to such a level that even english folk music is seen as "celtic" and marketed that way

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >American Irish culture, which is so radically different from irish culture it may be viewed as a different thing, has eclipsed actual irish culture to such an extent that it's seen as more genuine than the actual thing.

              This is a really flagrant example, from a Bollywood film with a scene shot in Dublin. Note the giant green leprechaun hats on the background dancers and the highland bagpipes being played the actress to provide 'local flavour': https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QF7z76ehyo

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >This is a really flagrant example, from a Bollywood film with a scene shot in Dublin. Note the giant green leprechaun hats on the background dancers and the highland bagpipes being played the actress to provide 'local flavour':
                kek
                reminds me of the st "patties" day parade in the fugitive which features bagpipers in highland dress https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0G5INNTHmU

                >yeah irish people totally wore highland scottish kilts

                AKSHUALLY it's possible they did wear something similar to plaid, at least in Gaelic Ulster, which well before the plantation was closely linked to Gaelic Scotland. The earliest purported image of Highlanders in tartan is probably actually of Irishmen.

                Highland dress is derived from the Gaelic léine common to Ireland and Gaelic Scotland originally anyway.

                the garment that the irish and highland scots might have historically worn is hardly similar to the modern, gaelic revival kilt which was invented by an englishman

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >reminds me of the st "patties" day parade in the fugitive which features bagpipers in highland dress

                To be fair highland dress and bagpipes have become a generic military/marching thing worldwide due to the prestige of the British armed forces and its parade tradition and their presence doesn't necessarily have ethnic connotations or indicate ethnic pretensions.

                >the garment that the irish and highland scots might have historically worn is hardly similar to the modern, gaelic revival kilt which was invented by an englishman

                Scottish history is full insane larping that would put Macedonia to shame but I think dismissing the kilt as a modern creation is a bit unfair. It was an organic development from a genuine folk garment to adapt it for factory-work conditions.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >To be fair highland dress and bagpipes have become a generic military/marching thing worldwide due to the prestige of the British armed forces and its parade tradition and their presence doesn't necessarily have ethnic connotations or indicate ethnic pretensions.
                why not play irish pipes and wear actual irish dress instead of larping as a highland scotsman?
                >Scottish history is full insane larping that would put Macedonia to shame but I think dismissing the kilt as a modern creation is a bit unfair. It was an organic development from a genuine folk garment to adapt it for factory-work conditions.
                presenting a garment invented by an englishman and adopted by scots and applying it to the irish, or to scots in the year 1100 is retarded

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous
  29. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    They’re just trying to evade the blame of being willing, happy participants in empire building. Their faux victim narrative crumbles apart when confronted with their colonisation of other lands and peoples.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      See:

      Bear in mind that we get blamed for what the descendants of your people who colonised our country did in other countries Britain colonised. Most foreigners don't quite understand the distinction between native Catholic Irish and Protestant Anglo-Irish, or appreciate how stark and significant a distinction it was. Ireland is now being treated as though it has colonial guilt because the same Anglo-Irish landlords who received their land in a 17th century version of Generalplan Ost and evicted their tenants to die at the height of the Great Famine also happened to have a sidegig oppressing blacks too on their West Indian plantations, leading them to considered 'Irish slaveowners'.

      [...]
      Anglo-Irish people would refer to themselves as 'Irish' in the geographic sense while regarding themselves as ethnically distinct from the Catholic natives. Theirs was a colonial identity, not an ethnic one, though of course in each case it's complex and there are grey areas.

      Pic related is from Javed Majeed, Colonialism and Knowledge in Grierson’s Linguistic Survey of India (2019). Grierson and the people he was writing to all considered themselves 'Irish', but of a very different kind to the natives.

      . What you're saying is true of the Scots but not of the Irish. The 'Irishmen' involved in empire building beyond the level of cannon fodder (Paddy Sepoys basically) were with rare exceptions the decendants of English and Scottish Protestant colonists in Ireland who regarded the Catholic natives as an inferior race.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Pathetic excuses. Irish volunteered to serve in the English king’s army and slaughtered other peoples. You can’t run away from your past forever. They could have chosen thousands of different paths in life, but no, they took a few gold coins in exchange to shoot and enslave others.

        Same with the United States, millions of Irish dispossessed and oppressed the Plains people of North America and the Great Lakes. It was free Irish immigrants in the 7th US Cavalry who massacred Sioux men, women and children at Wounded Knee. No one forced them to come to America. No one forced them to enlist. You’re no better and no different than your hated English, just as quick to look down on darker skinned people too.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          They were forced to enlist as a matter of concerted British policy by a system of enforced poverty designed to funnel them into the army. Something similar happened in Austrian Galicia, one of the continental 'Irelands'. It shows how little you know of 19th century Ireland that you think the average Irishman 'chosen thousands of different paths in life.'

          Native Americans are indisputably oppressed people and yet they paradoxically enough have a distinguished tradition of service in the US army, an imperialist army with a very bloody history. The case of the Irish in the British army is not so different.

          It is however true that the Irish had a real and shameful role in the extermination of Native American peoples via their heavy representation in the Union army, but I really see nothing from what I know of the Wounded Knee massacre to consider it in any way an 'Irish' action. The officers involved didn't have Irish surnames as far as I can tell.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          Every nation on Earth is more than willing to shoot people for money. Even American naggers were perfectly happy put on blue uniforms and butcher the natives for a few dollars

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          The horrible phrase 'nits make lice' used by Colonel John Chivington to justify the murder of Indian children at Sand Creek in 1864 was a quote from John Nalson, an English clergyman in Ireland in the 1640s, who relayed the justification his countrymen for the murder of Irish children.

          Irish and Native Americans have more in common historically than you would think, both being victims of the Anglo-Saxon Drang Nach Westen.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Irish and Native Americans have more in common historically than you would think, both being victims of the Anglo-Saxon Drang Nach Westen.
            AHAHAHAHHA

  30. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    the way irish culture is presented and practised by its diaspora in america and filtered through into the media is like how native american culture was once shown. everybody smoking pipes, with feather headresses around their heads living in wigwams and dancing around totem poles. but at least that was partly excusable and it was hardly native americans who portrayed themselves that way

  31. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    imagine if the irish dressed like this at their parades and not in the cringey faux celtic revival dress like they do now

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      I'm personally more partial to this style of Gaelic Irish dress.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Trews are Celtic. Kilts are English/Scots
      Trews are vastly superior.

  32. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Irish bagpipes look like this, they're called Uilleann pipes and you play them with a bellows under your elbow.

  33. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    culture survives better when it isn't subjected to cringey revival movements
    english and welsh culture out of all of the cultures in the british isles has survived best because it had no shitty romanticist revival movement which destroyed and commercialised their cultures

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      I think you're greatly overestimating the extent to which these Americanised revivals have influenced Irish culture. Ireland's cultural problem is lack of energetic revivalism, not botched revivalism. The genuine efforts at revival in Ireland have produced rich fruits consonant with the tradition, but the effort wasn't sustained or coordinated for long enough to 'take'.

  34. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Dia dhuit (or hello, for you eachtrannaigh). Proud Irish American here. I have to make a few comments about my disappointment on my trip to the emerald isle, the homeland of my anecestors. Firstly, nobody wore any traditional irish dress. There were no kilts, no plaid, no sporrans, and no traditional irish music was being played on the radio. i got strange looks when i ordered an irish car bomb (a traditional irish drink) in an "irish" pub, and compared to the pubs of boston there were no irish flags, no green beer, no donation jars for the IRA. i'm of the opinion that the irish on the island have become too influenced by the british, and that true irish culture has survived in america, free of british influence. it's here in america where the spirit of the fighting irish still goes on, hell, just give me a pint o'guiness and a bottle of whiskey and i'll have singlehandedly taken back northern ireland from the evil english in no time.
    Sad to see ireland in such a pitiful state, but that's just how things are. glad to see that we in the states are keeping the irish spirit alive. anyway, here's traditional irish music to listen to while drinking guiness and fighting the brits https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Irish Americans come from the Gaelic regions untouched by Normans and Britain. If anything its safe to say Irish Americans are Gaels and Scots Irish, Anglo Irish, Scotch are from the Anglo-Scottish border and Ulster Protestants.

  35. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    What would happen if england gave them Ulster?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Belfast would have the biggest chimpout in history,

  36. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Why do they have such a poor understanding of history?
    Like cromwell was the möst evil man ever for doing what was the norm at that timr

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Declaring vast swathes of the east of a country free-fire zones in which you could be killed merely for being present wasn't the norm anywhere. Scorched earth tactics were not unusual in the history of European wars but they were nonetheless considered immoral and frowned upon. And shit like this (there's tonnes and tonnes of it) wasn't approved of in any way according to the norms of the time:

      >But the most considerable slaughter was in a great straight of furze, seated on a hill, where the people of several villages taking the alarm had sheltered themselves. Now, Sir Arthur having invested the hill, set the furze on fire on all sides, where the people, being in considerable number, were all burned or killed, men, women, and children. I saw the bodies and furze still burning.
      The Earl of Castlehaven's Review: Or His Memoirs of His Engagement and Carriage in the Irish Wars (London, 1684), 20.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        Sounds like a scene from the 30 years war or 80 year war

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          There was something in the air in the mid-seventeenth century, much like in Europe from 1914-45. Humans seem to go insane in cycles.

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        [...]
        Anyway the reason Cromwell's name lingered down the centuries is because his soldiers received the land of the Irish as a reward for their services and formed the new ruling class in Ireland thereafter, keeping the wound alive. It's like if Generalplan Ost had succeeded and 200 years later the descendants of the surviving Slavic peasants were tilling fields for 'Oskar Graf von Dirlewanger IV' while preserving bitter and accurate memories of what happened in World War II.

        the swedes killed hundreds of thousands of germans in the thirty years war yet nobody there gets any blame
        people make fun of naggers for demanding that statues of confederates get taken down yet the irish act the same with cromwell

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          That's because the Swedes didn't achieve hegemony in Germany, destroy the indigenous German nobility and enserf the entire German population for centuries while subjecting it to grim ethno-sectarian oppression and siphoning its agricultural wealth back to Stockholm.

          People no longer dwell on this stuff on the European continent, because post-WWII there was a jubilee on nationalist grievances and historic resentments, but before this post-WWII consensus of forgiveness arose Europeans did in fact still have a degree of bad blood with each other over these things. The Irish aren't unique. If you look at German culture - Schiller's Wallenstein etc. - you'll see that the memory of the 30 Years War and its horrors was a living cultural legacy in Germany and elsewhere. Don't act like the Irish are abnormal, especially when the consequences of the Confederate War were a living legacy until the Land Acts broke the power of the Anglo-Irish landlords in the late 19th century.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            poland is still unhappy I think about what the swedes did in the deluge

            This was the enduring consequence of the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland and it continued for centuries.

            >The Catholics of Kinsale, who are also scattered over the surrounding territory, are estimated at about two hundred; many of them live miserably in the country, in mud cabins, badly thatched with straw, sleeping on the ground on short mats, and subsisting chiefly on fish and cockles, which are much smaller than the oyster, and are found in these seas, adhering to the rocks; they have seldom an opportunity of eating bread. Since the insurrection of this kingdom, they have been considered almost as the people of a conquered country, and are treated as slaves, being obliged to cultivate the ground, and to account to the owner even for their scanty profits. [...] The revenue which Ireland contributes to the royal treasury is estimated at three hundred thousand pounds sterling a year, arising from what are called the tributes of the crown, which every county in the kingdom pays to the exchequer from the revenues of the property of the rebels; from the annual loans, the right of which the same exchequer reserves to itself; from enfeoffments made of property confiscated in consequence of the pretended rebellion; and, lastly, from duties connected with commerce: which are exacted from the inhabitants, and with more especial rigour from the natives of the kingdom, towards whom the antipathy of the English is so great, that they not only do not allow them to speak in their native tongue, but oblige them to use the English idiom, forbidding them, under the severest penalties, the use of the liturgy in any other language than English, even in the prayers of their own communion.
            Conte Lorenzo Magalotti, The Travels of Cosmo the Third, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1669).

            Pic related is from a Lecture on Ireland by James Redpath (1881).

            the northern english literally had the north harried with 75% of the population dying yet you never hear english people crying about it
            the truth is that the irish and scots (despite the scots being overrepresented in the british empire) are the western butthurt belt of europe, along with poland, ukraine, the baltics, which make up the eastern butthurt belt

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              >the northern english literally had the north harried with 75% of the population dying yet you never hear english people crying about it

              The Harrying of the North happened literally almost a thousand years ago, and while it is true that the descendants of the Norman perpetrators still own that ill-gotten land, the Anglo-Saxons and Normans in England have fused into one people in England, whereas in Ireland the fusion between native and invader into one people never took place.

              >the truth is that the irish and scots (despite the scots being overrepresented in the british empire) are the western butthurt belt of europe

              The truth is that most Irish people don't know or care anything about their own history and more often than not believe an official version which massively minimises the historic wrongdoing of the British state in Ireland.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The Harrying of the North happened literally almost a thousand years ago, and while it is true that the descendants of the Norman perpetrators still own that ill-gotten land, the Anglo-Saxons and Normans in England have fused into one people in England, whereas in Ireland the fusion between native and invader into one people never took place.
                Cromwell's conquest happened 400 hundred years ago and ireland is an independent nation.
                >The truth is that most Irish people don't know or care anything about their own history and more often than not believe an official version which massively minimises the historic wrongdoing of the British state in Ireland.
                The truth is that more people would respect the irish if they stopped crying over every injustice the british did to them and actually started trying to do shit in their country like actually make it so most people can speak irish fluently and that it is used in modern life

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Cromwell's conquest happened 400 hundred years ago and ireland is an independent nation.

                Not all of it, and in the British part Catholics are still treated to triumphalist marches by quasi-paramilitary fraternal orders carrying banners of Cromwell and King Billy. If Dutch and Germans Protestants were intimidated in 2022 by marching bands carrying banners of Tserclaes or the Duke of Alva as they came out of church on Sunday they'd be sore over past history too, and the equivalent of this still happens occasionally to this day in NI and the West of Scotland (even in Edinburgh).

                >The truth is that more people would respect the irish if they stopped crying over every injustice the british did to them

                We don't. Well I do, on LULZ, but I'm not typical, and I only started doing this because it recently dawned on me how widespread the misconceptions surrounding Irish history are. I was surprised to realise how many educated people whether British, Irish or foreign regarded the actual facts of Irish history as a ultranationalist myth, as an imagined history of persecution.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              Lmao so now you move the goalposts back to the 12th century.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Oh yes I forgot that there some posters claiming that the Norman invasion of Ireland in 1169 was an act of retaliation against raids by Irish pirates on the west coast of Roman Britain lmaoo
                I don’t know what it is with these people, desperate to blame the Irish

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Better to be fair than moving them back to the 4th century [...].

                Oh yes I forgot that there some posters claiming that the Norman invasion of Ireland in 1169 was an act of retaliation against raids by Irish pirates on the west coast of Roman Britain lmaoo
                I don’t know what it is with these people, desperate to blame the Irish

                so how far back are you allowed to go?
                why is whining about cromwell fine but whining about the norman conquest isn't? why can't the irish take the brunt of blame for invading and conquering the picts like the brits do for invading ireland?

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Because when Irish people are complaining about a bad thing that happened centuries ago (the Norman invasion of 1169, Cromwell, the Great Famine etc.) we're complaining about a catastrophe that set in motion effects and processes which continued down to recent times. The 'Long War' which began in 1169 still hasn't arguably even ended, just gone into suspense since the Good Friday Agreement. Cromwell's reconquest instigated centuries of serfdom which produced the Famine and only really ended with the Wyndham Act of 1903, and the demographic consequences of the Famine are still felt in the fact the Ireland's population is still lower than it was before, owing to the demographic sink it instigated.

                The relationship between Anglo-Saxons and Normans on the other hand is not a live issue. The last time it was was during the English Civil War in which the 'Norman Yoke' briefly became an actual subject of consideration but not since then. The English people form a whole.

                And seriously just fuck off about the Picts. Every time I write or even read that word my brain becomes more autistic. Anybody who has used the word Pict more than five times in his life is to be suspected of some kind of mental illness.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >just gone into suspense since the Good Friday Agreement

                I'm not an anti-GFA Republican for the record and I entirely support the Peace Process, and I don't see any threat of violence in the near future by the way or want there to be any violence.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The relationship between Anglo-Saxons and Normans on the other hand is not a live issue. The last time it was was during the English Civil War in which the 'Norman Yoke' briefly became an actual subject of consideration but not since then. The English people form a whole.
                People of norman descent are richer and own more land in the UK. Rich Norman descendents own huge estates and tracts of land which they are allowed to do with as they please while british people were enclosed and forced to live in tight packed cities.
                >And seriously just fuck off about the Picts. Every time I write or even read that word my brain becomes more autistic. Anybody who has used the word Pict more than five times in his life is to be suspected of some kind of mental illness.
                If the british people should feel bad about the conquest of ireland then surely thus ireland should feel bad about their conquest of the picts

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >People of norman descent are richer and own more land in the UK. Rich Norman descendents own huge estates and tracts of land which they are allowed to do with as they please while british people were enclosed and forced to live in tight packed cities.

                Don't just sit there complaining. Do something about it pal.

                >If the british people should feel bad about the conquest of ireland then surely thus ireland should feel bad about their conquest of the picts

                The conquest of the Picts by the Irish Dalriadan people wasn't a state action (there was no Irish state at the time) whereas British misdeeds in Ireland are the misdeeds of the British state.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Don't just sit there complaining. Do something about it pal.
                Why don't you do something about the fact that 90% of irish people don't speak their language? or do something about the fact that northern ireland is british, or stop complaining and go after the british government that you keep claiming still rules ireland (even though they left a hundred years ago)
                >The conquest of the Picts by the Irish Dalriadan people wasn't a state action (there was no Irish state at the time) whereas British misdeeds in Ireland are the misdeeds of the British state.
                It was done by Irish people, thus it is an irish conquest. you can nitpick and cope all you want about it mate doesnt make it untrue

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Why don't you do something about the fact that 90% of irish people don't speak their language?

                Níl agam ach béal amháin.

                >or do something about the fact that northern ireland is british, or stop complaining and go after the british government that you keep claiming still rules ireland (even though they left a hundred years ago)

                I'm a constitutionalist and I abide by the principles of the GFA, and as a southerner I ought not to get involved the intricacies of northern politics out of respect for the complexities of the northern situation. Would you rather I joined the dissos and started shooting British soldiers? That is, if 'dissident republicans' actually substantially exist and are not a scheme for MI5 and a few ex-IRA contacts to launder drug earnings and pocket Her Majesty's military budget money between themselves.

                >It was done by Irish people, thus it is an irish conquest. you can nitpick and cope all you want about it mate doesnt make it untrue

                There's a well-known Scottish eccentric around these parts who insists it is in fact untrue. He's adamant that the Picts conquered the Dalriadans and not the other way around. You should debate him.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                >People of norman descent are richer and own more land in the UK. Rich Norman descendents own huge estates and tracts of land which they are allowed to do with as they please while british people were enclosed and forced to live in tight packed cities
                This is literally less true of the UK than it is of Ireland

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Not really tbh. He's basically right. Insofar as the Irish were forced to live in tightly packed cities it was in cities outside of Ireland (forced migration) due to the deliberate underdevelopment of Irish towns and many of those Irish were more ethnically Norman than their Cromwellian persecutors. Normans who stayed Catholic in Ireland eventually assimilated into the Irish Catholic population as a whole (these became known as the 'Old English'), and were victims of Protestant 'New English' persecution, whereas those who became Protestant assimilated into the Anglo-Irish (nearly synonymous with 'New English') population. Thanks to the land reforms (the prototype for the Russian Stolypin Reforms) which the Irish with deft organisation forced out of the British government during the late 19th century period in which it was not conducting itself in its typically psychopathic fashion Ireland is a country of small independent farms. This accelerated after independence, leaving Ireland the polar opposite to Scotland, where a handful of feudal lords still own most of the land.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                Normans are the upper class in Britain. Always have been. Irish are the upper class in Northeast US.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                northumbrians vs england is more of an issue these days.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              You have a point. I've frequently thought that England is the Russia of the west in regards to international perfidery and denying historical atrocities.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                England is worse imo. Pic from IRA commander Tom Barry's memoir Guerilla Days in Ireland (Cork, 1949).

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                the filename has 1 at the end
                post the others senpai

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                This next one is just for the sake of balance to show Barry wasn't an obsessively hateful crank but a thoughtful person of measured opinions.

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                evil triumphing over good at home and abroad, tale a old as time

              • 8 months ago
                Anonymous

                This next one is just for the sake of balance to show Barry wasn't an obsessively hateful crank but a thoughtful person of measured opinions.

                I've always considered Barry to be arguably the most categorically based of the Anti-Treaty side of the Irish Civil War, and one of the best military leaders of the revolution. Always good to be vindicated.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Wallenstein was actually killed by a pair of Irishmen btw. Look up Walter Butler of Roscrea and Walter Devereux of Ballymagir.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          poland is still unhappy I think about what the swedes did in the deluge

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          This was the enduring consequence of the Cromwellian conquest of Ireland and it continued for centuries.

          >The Catholics of Kinsale, who are also scattered over the surrounding territory, are estimated at about two hundred; many of them live miserably in the country, in mud cabins, badly thatched with straw, sleeping on the ground on short mats, and subsisting chiefly on fish and cockles, which are much smaller than the oyster, and are found in these seas, adhering to the rocks; they have seldom an opportunity of eating bread. Since the insurrection of this kingdom, they have been considered almost as the people of a conquered country, and are treated as slaves, being obliged to cultivate the ground, and to account to the owner even for their scanty profits. [...] The revenue which Ireland contributes to the royal treasury is estimated at three hundred thousand pounds sterling a year, arising from what are called the tributes of the crown, which every county in the kingdom pays to the exchequer from the revenues of the property of the rebels; from the annual loans, the right of which the same exchequer reserves to itself; from enfeoffments made of property confiscated in consequence of the pretended rebellion; and, lastly, from duties connected with commerce: which are exacted from the inhabitants, and with more especial rigour from the natives of the kingdom, towards whom the antipathy of the English is so great, that they not only do not allow them to speak in their native tongue, but oblige them to use the English idiom, forbidding them, under the severest penalties, the use of the liturgy in any other language than English, even in the prayers of their own communion.
          Conte Lorenzo Magalotti, The Travels of Cosmo the Third, Grand Duke of Tuscany (1669).

          Pic related is from a Lecture on Ireland by James Redpath (1881).

  37. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    I don't know but the real question is why is the island shaped like a pig jumping out of an airplane

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      to me it looks like the face of an old man with a big chin in side profile

  38. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Tell us your country so I can take the piss out of it

  39. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    What I'm getting from this thread is that things wouldn't have been so bad if the Anglos just breeded the Irish identity out of existence rather than create a slave caste, there'd be no issues.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      The cultural persecution in the 16th-18th centuries was really as draconian as it could possible be done. I don't know what more they could have implemented in terms of identity-destruction.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      A recurring theme in Irish history is that the Irish population tended to bounce back quickly after various ethnic cleansings and outbreed the new settler population, resulting in the upper classes of the settler population preferring to rely on the natives as a workforce rather than on their fellow colonists as the government had hoped.

      >The colonization of Ireland by Cromwell and his predecessors entirely failed to extend English society across St. George's Channel. The wild Irish, driven to subsist on the potato, could work more cheaply for the new landowners of the country than English or even Scottish settlers were willing to do, hence they prevailed demographically, at the expense of a miserable economic bondage to a culturally alien aristocracy. Although legal forms differed, the social patterns of eighteenth-century Ireland resembled those of eastern Europe and the southern colonies of North America in being sharply polarized between a privileged body of landowners who shared in European civilization, and a culturally deprived, psychologically alienated mass of agricultural laborers.
      William H. McNeill, The Rise of the West: A History of the Human Community.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      They could only really destroy and 'breed out' Irish culture and identity through degradation and enslavement because when Gaelic culture and society was vital it assimilated Anglo-Norman colonists rather than vice versa. An intact Gaelic society couldn't have its identity 'bred out' by dictate from London because it was a more attractive culture to the Irish and English residents of Ireland than English culture was. Gaelic society wasn't a weed blown away by the wind, it was a tree dug up at great effort and cost which its soil burned and salted.

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      Nothing the English tried ever really worked at either breaking the spirit of the Irish or assimilating them. There was possibly nothing they could have ever done to make the Irish feel 'British'.

      >Limited at first to a territory enclosed within palisades, or Pale, which, during more than four centuries, enlarged or got narrowed, according to the fortune of war and the relative strength of the belligerent parties, the English rule was destined at last to spread over the whole of the island. But, of this seven-century struggle, the last word is not yet said. The wound is ever bleeding. Ireland has never accepted her defeat; she refuses to accept as valid a marriage consummated by a rape. Always she protested, either by direct rebellion, when she found the opportunity for it, as in 1640, in 1798, and in 1848; either by the voice of her poets and orators, by the nocturnal raids of her Whiteboys and Ribbonmen, by the plots of her Fenians, by the votes of her electors, by parliamentary obstruction, by passive resistance, by political or commercial interdict — opposed to the intruder; in a word, by all the means, legal or illegal, that offered to interrupt prescription. A striking, and, one may say, a unique example in history: after seven centuries of sustained effort on the part of the victor to achieve his conquest, this conquest is less advanced than on the morrow of Henry the Second's landing at Waterford. An abyss still severs the two races, and time, instead of filling up that abyss, only seems to widen it. This phenomenon is of such exceptional and tragic interest; it beats with such crude light on the special physiology of two races and the general physiology of humanity, that one needs must stop first and try to unravel its tangible causes if one be desirous of comprehending what is taking place in the land of Erin.
      Paschal Grousset, Ireland's disease (1888).

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        >The English knew how to reconcile people of the most diverse races with their rule. The Welsh, who held so tenaciously to their nationality and language, have fused completely with the British Empire. The Scottish Celts, though rebellious until 1745 and since almost completely exterminated first by the government and then by their own aristocracy, do not even think of rebellion. The French of the Channel Isles fought bitterly against France during the Great Revolution. Even the Frisians of Heligoland, which Denmark sold to Britain, are satisfied with their lot; and a long time will probably pass before the laurels of Sadowa and the conquests of the North — German Confederation wrench from their throats a pained wail about unification with the “great fatherland.” Only with the Irish the English could not cope. The reason for this is the enormous resilience of the Irish race. After the most savage suppression, after every attempt to exterminate them, the Irish, following a short respite, stood stronger than ever before: it seemed they drew their main strength from the very foreign garrison forced on them in order to oppress them. Within two generations, often within one, the foreigners became more Irish than the Irish, Hiberniores ipsis Hibernis. The more the Irish accepted the English language and forgot their own, the more Irish they became.
        Friedrich Engels, Notes for the “History of Ireland”, 1870.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          >It is a melancholy fact, but worthy of remark, that, in our own days blood has flowed in Ireland on account of the old quarrel of the conquest. The period in futurity when this quarrel shall be terminated it is impossible to foresee; and aversion for England, its government, its manners, and its language, is still the native passion of the Irish race. From the day of the invasion, the will of that race of men has been constantly opposed to the will of its masters: it has detested what they have loved, and loved what they have detested. [...] This unconquerable obstinacy, this lengthened remembrance of departed liberty, this faculty of preserving and nourishing, through ages of physical misery and suffering, the thought of that which is no more, of never despairing of a constantly-vanquished cause, for which many generations have successively, and in vain, perished in the field, and by the executioner, is, perhaps, the most extraordinary and the greatest example that a people has ever given.
          Augustin Thierry, History of the Conquest of England by the Normans, Vol. III, 1847.

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Most of the popular English singers/artists are of Irish descent.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              Yeah Thierry wasn't quite right when he said 'aversion for England... and its language' because even in 1847 the language was in steep decline, and the Great Famine contemporary with when he was writing more or less finished it off.

              There is also a large Irish population in England and a large British population in the RoI and both are perfectly assimilated these days. Irish independence has removed the grievance in most of Ireland and allowed people to move in. The only place where there is grievance felt these days is where the historic grievances are still outstanding, in NI.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Only with the Irish the English could not cope
          Lol

          • 8 months ago
            Anonymous

            Engels (yes that Engels) was a Prussian, not an Irishman, so he was not writing out of ethnic chauvinism.

            The idea amuses you because you regard the Irish as a laughing stock because you've been trained to by Anglophone pop culture. But pause and reflect on that. The British are the best propagandists in the world and they depict everything the way they do for a particular reason. It's never accidental. Beneath the comical image of the stereotypical bumbling Irishman is a mountainous heap of British coping and seething over the Irish, who came close to knocking down the first domino of their empire several times and eventually succeeded.

            • 8 months ago
              Anonymous

              You seem to misunderstand why I laughed but ok.

  40. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    Damn, the malignant narcissism of br*tish people really knows no bounds.
    Literally racist against a group that is genetically identical to you and grew up in the island next to yours.
    I'm not saying racism against anyone is justified, but this is one of the more ridiculous cases I'm aware of in world history.
    Also, your food is disgusting and your culture is irritating and shallow.

  41. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >hibernophobic post
    >reaches bump limit
    >41 posters
    Is this the secret?

  42. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    british racism toward irish people is extremely funny

  43. 8 months ago
    Anonymous

    >be paddy
    >talk about how the british are evil and horrible and about how a potato famine was ackhually a genocide
    >steal and appropriate british culture and music as your own instead of using your actual rich genuine culture
    why do they do this?

    • 8 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://epicchq.com/story/the-irishness-of-british-pop-music/

      • 8 months ago
        Anonymous

        reminder that half of all "irish" folk songs are literally just english folk songs that irish singers covered and claimed as their own

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          Nobody cares about Britain. We like you guys because we get to see you larp in movies. No actual American moves to England unless something is wrong with them.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          For the last time, Irish people are not responsible for the fact that the American mass market perceives all folk music as Celtic/Irish. Irish people are not responsible for the fact that folk music is automatically perceived. Just because an Irishman sings a folk song does not mean he is claiming it is an Irish song.

          And what you've said is again plainly wrong. Ireland has a very vast and rich tradition of folk music. Are Irish-language songs stolen from the English too in your opinion? Many English-language Irish songs reuse melodies from older songs in Irish.

        • 8 months ago
          Anonymous

          YWNBF

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