They are literally the SAME fucking thing. The idea of Justice and revenge being separate is a social construct that’s used to prevent the people from exacting their justice against the ones displacing/exploiting them.
Who the FUCK gets to determine whats Justice and whats revenge?
Justice is preventing crimes from occurring.
Revenge is inverting and re-doing past crimes.
The nuance is lost in most modern societies.
So, if someone kills a member of my family and I then go and kill him, that’s revenge to you?
So then everything that man does to other men is “revenge” whether it’s done through the legal system or not.
>So, if someone kills a member of my family and I then go and kill him, that’s revenge to you?
It would only be justice if you're preventing that person from murdering more of your family members. If the person would never commit a murder again, then it is revenge.
>If the person would never commit a murder again, then it is revenge.
This is the dumbest, homosexual shit I’ve heard regarding this subject. Show your pussy. So, as long as he promises not to murder again he should be free to go and do as he pleases. Then if he does murder again, and another innocent life is unnecessarily lost, if he promises not to do it again and really means it this time, he should be let go to do as he pleases again. This is the mindset of a slave. This is the mindset of a sheep.
Strawman. I said nothing about fickle "promises". You sound genuinely low-IQ. Are you even an American? How can you have such a poor understanding of our legal system?
Hahaha! Who are you, or anyone for that matter, to decide what constitutes a “fickle promise” or not? Do you know the mind of the criminal? The criminal might promise something in the moment, he may even REALLY mean it in the moment. Hell, he could go through a multi step rehabilitation program and check all the boxes. Yet he could still reoffend and we could go through the same cycle over again with the same promises made, with the same sincerity, yet it happens again. You have no idea what the future behaviors of anyone will be. So why waste the energy trying to rehabilitate someone?
>So why waste the energy trying to rehabilitate someone?
Draco naggers....
It seems pretty obvious that he means he would not accept a promise as proof of anything.
People unintentionally kill others all the time. Car accidents, workplace mistakes. There are other ways to determine potential recidivism besides just someone's words.
>Which is impossible in clown world.
Yes
>Then who the FUCK gets to decide what’s Justice and what isn’t?
God.
Ok but I’m talking about murder out of malice. And if what you say is true, that God gets to decide what’s Justice and what isn’t, when we live in clown world, then the forces of good or God are obligated to struggle, perhaps even violently, with the forces of evil so that they might restore Justice. Is that right? And if it is, then it requires the forces of good to commit acts of evil. Which in the end all boils down to the law of nature. You can only have what you can defend. If you become incapable of its defense then you lose it. Lawful, just societies are at a natural disadvantage to primitive, violent ones.
>Lawful, just societies are at a natural disadvantage to primitive, violent ones.
OOGA BOOGA
That military psyop trash is still micromanaging everything here.
This will never get anywhere and they will keep inventing excuses to play more mind games forever.
>And if it is, then it requires the forces of good to commit acts of evil.
Arguable. Proper justice isn't evil. Most of the evil could be dealt with through proper justice theoretically. Practically it might involve war, collateral damage, etc. We're humans. Perfection is exceedingly rare so most of us just have to do the best we can. Minimize evil as much as possible within ourselves before we pull the trigger.
>Lawful, just societies are at a natural disadvantage to primitive, violent ones.
Maybe in some minor way, such as the modern surveillance apparatus in Haiti wouldn't be able to stop you from doing most anything you wanted. Tools of a civilized society will always turn on the people. But you can also use them for your advantage as well. No point complaining about it, we just have to do the best with what we have available.
>Tools of a civilized society will always turn on the people.
Tools can't do anything on their own, they need your fellow dindus using them against non-dindus.
Yes. The point is that if the tools exist someone will use them against society and good people.
Always the same kind of 'someone' (almost always from Africa) but this is a forbidden topic here.
Most tribes seem to have in group preference. What you are describing is more of a combination of incompetence though decadence and corporate monopoly over the tools / justice. The corporations don't give a fuck about africans except as tools to divide society and continue looting.
Religion. Personal experience. Study of history. Some combination of those is the closest I've been able to determine.
The pathological altruism of civilized societies allows their tools to eventually be used on their people. I seriously wonder if it is even possible for any society, no matter how advanced, to be able to balance authority, enacting the will of its people and requiring adherence to the law, without being over the top cruel and dystopic and never selling out to foreign interests.
Saving that picture. Counter currents has had a really good lecture on Plato and his conversation with Gorgias.
>Perfection is exceedingly rare so most of us just have to do the best we can. Minimize evil as much as possible within ourselves before we pull the trigger.
Is there a way to tell when you’ve reached that point? There has to be some kind of metric or some standard at which the decent people of society would come together and say “ok, shit is seriously fucked and we can no longer rely on our leaders and institutions to fix this because they are the ones that have done it in the first place.” 15 years ago I honestly would have thought something like a drag queen story hour would have been that moment. I would have thought that, if it had even been on my radar.
Retard if someone does something once, they will always do it again. If your mother cheated on your father, would she do it again?
Well English common law did a pretty good job trying to make a system in which flawed humans could get some approximation of justice.
Juries of normal people. High standards of evidence.
>So then everything that man does to other men is “revenge” whether it’s done through the legal system or not.
No. If people who are completely unrelated to the victim can see that your murderer did in fact commit murder then it has nothing to do with revenge. The victim's family are not the judges or jury.
>No. If people who are completely unrelated to the victim can see that your murderer did in fact commit murder then it has nothing to do with revenge.
Tell that to OJ simpson’s victim’s families or Jessica Chambers family. The juries acquitted because they felt like it was “Justice” for all of the slights blacks have faced from whites throughout history. A history btw that has been warped in the minds of blacks and others to villainized white people in every situation. It was “Justice” that guided the jury, as it wasn’t about punishing the crimes that were committed. It was about saying “we won’t find them guilty because fuck you whitey.” Jessica Chambers murderer went on to murder another girl, and Asian girl, a few months later.
Well yeah, I didn't say it was perfect. A jury of peers doesn't work very well in a mutt society. And as the upper society calcifies the judges will all be bought.
These are intrinsic problems we don't really have much answer to besides maintaining a healthy overall society. Once society goes so will any semblance of justice.
>These are intrinsic problems we don't really have much answer to besides maintaining a healthy overall society.
Which is impossible in clown world.
> Once society goes so will any semblance of justice.
Which leads my to my original point. Then who the FUCK gets to decide what’s Justice and what isn’t? Just because America goes down the shutter doesn’t mean our “Justice” system will disappear. It won’t.. in fact it will probably get bigger.
>So, if someone kills a member of my family and I then go and kill him, that’s revenge to you?
obviously?
There is no difference between revenge and Justice then. In the end though, the ultimate law is the law of nature. You can only have what you can defend.
Can be both. Revenge can be justice such as in the simplistic case you mentioned. Even juries have affirmed this, letting murders off because they killed someone who killed their kid or something.
But revenge can also go a lot further than justice. Killing someone's entire family because one of them wronged your family would be the obvious example.
Justice is quickly and painlessly executing your enemies so they can't harm you further.
Revenge is torturing them to death and hanging their naked bodies off of bridges.
Only naggers and spics can't tell the difference.
Judgement is up to God
Solutions are upto us!
In my opinion I've defined as for example if a criminal that cannot be ever let out of jail because he did a horrific crime is imprisoned.
Would I justify a death sentence? And why!
Justice is when one removes a problem from society to avoid innocent people paying any further proce because of it that is negative, it's a solution.
Example, desth penalty is justified if person can never be let out because hes a danger to people and also people should not have to pay and waste resources on him but rather can use the resources towards something useful.
Revenge would be putting the criminal to death because of animosity alone, and revenge can cause often a vicious circle of evil and endless inciting of someones feeling like they were wronged and want to revenge themselves... it's the old eye for an eye, blood for blood... keeps everything deteriorating.
I prefer justice which is solutions and logic, not revenge.
Even though I too am emotional snd want to kick ass... but logic still rain supreme, it needs ro be this way every time in society especially.
Revenge causes more negative harm and Consecunces.
Justice can be solutions and reduction of harm, producing more bearable Consecunces and even being productive.
But ~~*you*~~ are the pieces of shit who will always commit more serious crimes, and everyone else who isn't an idiot wants you dead, so you can easily revert this situation too.
t. some who will always want you dead you fucking negroids
I'm not israeli.
>Example, desth penalty is justified if person can never be let out because hes a danger to people and also people should not have to pay and waste resources on him but rather can use the resources towards something useful.
Humans have no possible way of knowing if someone is definitely going to re-offend or not.
>Revenge would be putting the criminal to death because of animosity alone…
Again, there is absolutely no way of knowing what drives someone to seek Justice for themselves, you have to assume that the person who exacts revenge is doing it out of animus. That’s conjecture.
>but logic still rain supreme…
Look at the Canadian, US and European judicial systems and tell me that logic is winning out in the court systems. In the end everyone, including judges and juries, are bound by their biases and the desire for “their team” to win. This also explains why the more diverse nations become the more the rule of law is more discriminately applied/not applied. The ultimate law is the law of nature.
>Humans have no possible way of knowing if someone is definitely going to re-offend or not.
This is a topic that you will always gaslight about, but it's perfectly possible to know this in the case of real criminals committing real crimes (not your homosexualry and dementia).
Ok, so you’re right that for 95% of violent criminals (which is enough for me) my point was to say that you have to assume that you know the minds and future actions of the individual, which is technically impossible. We use probability. If there is a 95%+ chance of re-offense then give them the chair in my opinion. But that <5% chance is what has created this mess of a legal system we have and led lawyers to use law fare to fuck up places that were once stable, peaceful and law abiding while at the same time de-fanging the law abiding public. The public can no longer act in its own interests because the punishments for them is much greater than for the criminals themselves.
>to assume that you know the minds and future actions of the individual
Except for rare cases it's always the same: a long history of real crime, sociopathy or psychopathy, no interest in ever stopping it, ...
There is obviously a lot of bullshit about this.
It's part of the israelites, freemasons and other similar people and their mind games.
You all seem to be 'that kind of people' so there is no point in giving you a high by replying to this properly.
>Humans have no possible way of knowing if someone is definitely going to re-offend or not.
Past behavior predicts future behavior. Also most criminals are too stupid NOT to say they have intention of repeating past crimes.
>Again, there is absolutely no way of knowing what drives someone to seek Justice for themselves, you have to assume that the person who exacts revenge is doing it out of animus. That’s conjecture.
Wrong again. Killing an old man who was an SS officer in WWII isn't justice. There's no risk of him "oppressing" any more israelites. It's simply and obviously revenge.
You are basing this "prevent this person from committing crimes" on modern ideas of incarceration. This was never historical. Historically, Justice was a swift punishment. Taking a limb, painful punishment or humiliating public punishment, or even execution. We didn't just put people in prison. The idea of locking someone up was out of the question up until a few hundred years ago.
If the definition and requirements for Justice change with time and the demographic then what use is it anyway? Revenge is a concept that is never changing and built into the natural being of man. Revenge is just a description of the natural desire to right a wrong that has been committed.
I agree with you, I responded to the wrong person sorry anon
Nah, there is a huge biological factor in your mental illness and gay negro behavior. This includes reversing roles (playing the victims after a genocide your own mafia committed for example).
Since it seems the killing of sociopaths and similar shitheads used to be very common among humans, I guess this began as an obvious trend of killing retarded assholes.
Justice is punishing someone for their crimes
Revenge is punishing someone for their crimes against you, and painfully.
So then if I off a guy who raped a family member or a friend then it would be Justice because I’m doing it on behalf of someone else?
It would only be justice if he expressed clear intent to rape again. What's so hard for you to understand about this?
The difference is that revenge is committed by the victim or someone from the victim's closest circle but justice must be administered by a third party (which should be impartial).
There were forms of Justice in the past and even still today where the victims or their families have the power of forgiveness or imprisonment or even death over the offender.
Correct me if I'm wong
Did the Olympian gods use violence on their aggressors?
And that's the problem, the only options men have restricted themselves to is violence, destruction, and financial compensation.
The last being preferred by the rich, b/c it doesn't affect them.
Everyone keeps saying justice and revenge, where as to imply teaching or punishment.
They substitute punishment for consequence, where as teaching is a means to prevent consequences.
To paraphrase Ayn Rand 'Ethics and morality are not to make life harder, but to make life easier in the future.'
That's why animals react with violence, they don't see a future, it's always here and now.
If you want to become a god, you have to think like a god.
>and no, I'm not there yet.
>but I know if I act like an animal, it will never come to fruition.
This is why we should leave our juvenile offenses in the past. Yet these days anyone who witnessed those offenses won't let them go untold, often out of spite. Which is often a reflection of their own character, and often ignorance.
justice is tied with love. we want justice when wronged because we want to be valued.
revenge is from hell. jesus condemned it for good reason. desiring revenge implies we have never hurt anyone, which is not true.
“Love,” without a deadly hatred of that which seeks to do harm to the things and people that you actually love, is nothing more than an empty buzzword.
Also, if I have never murdered or raped someone can I then be justified in demanded the murder or rape of another that has committed it against someone that I love?