>Christianity >Separated from nature
You don't know a thing about Christianity and just repeat talking points that only exist on the internet. >Gen. 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
>Ps. 8:3-4 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
>Ps. 69:34 Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein.
>Job 12:7-10 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
>Isa. 55:10-13 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
>Amos 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is his name:
>Matt. 6:28-30 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
>Acts 17:24-25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.
That doesn't mean we are separated from nature. Being the ruler of something doesn't mean you abuse it, a good ruler will care and protect his subjects. God making us the ruler of nature means we must protect both the land and the creatures of it.
So by your reasoning is God himself apart of nature as the King of Kings, the Ruler of Rulers? Obviously not, humanity has always been separated from nature in Judaism into Christianity. Gods in greco-romano paganism were nature incarnate, and humanity was just as much at the whims of them as any other beings.
>So by your reasoning is God himself apart of nature
Yes, He created heaven and earth and is a part of both since he ruled over both. A ruler cannot rule over something he is not a part of.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
God is NOT apart of nature, God created nature. God is on another, unfathomable, plane of existence outside the human scope of comprehension.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>God is NOT apart of nature
God is everything and the abssence of him is evil, if God is not nature then nature is evil
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
God is not everything he is merely "present" in everything, everywhere.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
if he is present in everything and everywhere then he isn't part of another plan
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
It depends on your views on the nature of omnipresence, though this question is ultimately pointless since the nature omnipresence, along with omniscience omnipotence with God, is beyond human comprehension. Though, I still maintain God is not apart of nature.
A ruler is separated by hierarchy, yes, but they are still part of the pyramid in which forms the hierarchy.
The king and subjects are in fact separated, but the king is still a part of the subjects lives in the same way God is a part of nature.
It's a volcano god when you want to use that as an insult but when it suits you it becomes anti-nature. War is more fundamental than the spirits worshiped as gods at the time, the literal volcano reflects the highest order. The Holy land is fruitful, Eden is a garden.
>It's a volcano god when you want to use that as an insult but when it suits you it becomes anti-nature.
yes, volcano god in the sense that it is not the most high God of Platonism no matter how hard theologians try to square it, anti-nature in the sense that you are called upon to shun the very world your God is credited with creating. Christianity is a heresy of gnosticism, not the other way around.
It doesn't matter that there are people out there willing to reinforce your delusions, you're still delusional and actively avoiding learning to maintain the delusion.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
being called delusional by a christer apologist is badge of honor
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Is what any zealot trying to protect his delusions would say. You can't even consider alternatives which means you can't think. You've sacrificed the ability to think for a false sense of security like the worst religious fanatics and then pretend you're better. You're worse than the worst of them.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>believing in my dogma means i am a critical thinker who is able to weigh alternatives >not believing in my dogma means you are a dumb zealot who cannot think for himself
you sound terribly stupid, I would not seek your counsel on any spiritual matter
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
I offered you the suggestion of sincerely thinking instead of being this stereotypical useless retard you are. You're unable to consider anything you associate with some label you've declared heretical and you're too dumb to figure out how that's dogmatic. I'm spoonfeeding you that my point is to consider fucking alternatives and you tell me I'm the one being dogmatic. There is no creature dumber than retards like you. You can't discuss or say anything about any subject.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
>i might have dumped eight bible verses worth about 90% of the characters i typed ITT as justification for my view, but don't you dare accuse me of being dogmatic
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
What Bible verse is my actual point about considering alternatives based on? There is nothing more depressing than being face to face with pure mindless decay like you. No matter how hard I try to imagine the dumbest, most useless and evil retard I can retards like you still outdo my imagination by a large margin.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Your entire framework of responding to anything and everything said to you, when you are in between your own direct dogmatic schizo utterances, is to call your opponent delusional or retarded. That's not at all very convincing, maybe if you were delivering a sermon to people who already agree with you it would make sense to denounce everybody not in the cult as ignoramuses as a means of reinforcing their faith, but since those people aren't here you sound like an arrogant sack of shit. Go kiss some feet.
2 weeks ago
Anonymous
Just grasp the absolute basics of how statements work, understand the bare minimum needed to communicate before polluting the world with your shit.
I point out you're avoiding even considering any alternatives to what you've decided is holy truth and your response is to go even harder with the deranged zealotry, making declarations about what I mean not based on anything I fucking said so you can avoid thinking. >That's not at all very convincing
Everything you say is braindead with no logical structure or relationship to anything else said, what do you think I'm trying to convince you of when I call you out for your mindless behavior? Why not engage with what's actually said instead of making up endless deranged stories?
genuinely good question. i took a roadside picnic to snack on some nuts. i am a coffee to shit factory with respiratory sequencing most of the day. idk word salad
Thinking itself separates man from nature because in order for there to be knowledge there must be a knower, and for there to be a knower man must be able to distinguish himself from his surroundings.
i believe this shit starts in the market, when you can choose to buy an octopus to bring home for your wife to cook, instead of eating the same slop your slaves farm every day... or something
The Sophists with their rhetorical approach were the first philosophers, who completely changed the subject of philosophy from nature to society. The famous quote of Protagoras "The man is the measure of all things" literally said gtfo to multiple naturalist philosophies of that time, because they contradicted each other and were useless (in contrast to rhetoric with which you could dominate other people at assemblies for example).
>separated man from nature
If the idea sounds retarded enough, it has to be Plato, which is precisely the case
Christianity started it, in Rome when it was competing with the other spiritual worldviews, but Marxism finished the job in the early 1900's.
>Christianity
>Separated from nature
You don't know a thing about Christianity and just repeat talking points that only exist on the internet.
>Gen. 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
>Ps. 8:3-4 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?
>Ps. 69:34 Let the heaven and earth praise him, the seas, and every thing that moveth therein.
>Job 12:7-10 But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind.
>Isa. 55:10-13 For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. For ye shall go out with joy, and be led forth with peace: the mountains and the hills shall break forth before you into singing, and all the trees of the field shall clap their hands. Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the LORD for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.
>Amos 5:8 Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord is his name:
>Matt. 6:28-30 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
>Acts 17:24-25 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things.
God commanded us to rule over the land and beasts, don't be retarded
That doesn't mean we are separated from nature. Being the ruler of something doesn't mean you abuse it, a good ruler will care and protect his subjects. God making us the ruler of nature means we must protect both the land and the creatures of it.
So by your reasoning is God himself apart of nature as the King of Kings, the Ruler of Rulers? Obviously not, humanity has always been separated from nature in Judaism into Christianity. Gods in greco-romano paganism were nature incarnate, and humanity was just as much at the whims of them as any other beings.
>So by your reasoning is God himself apart of nature
Yes, He created heaven and earth and is a part of both since he ruled over both. A ruler cannot rule over something he is not a part of.
God is NOT apart of nature, God created nature. God is on another, unfathomable, plane of existence outside the human scope of comprehension.
>God is NOT apart of nature
God is everything and the abssence of him is evil, if God is not nature then nature is evil
God is not everything he is merely "present" in everything, everywhere.
if he is present in everything and everywhere then he isn't part of another plan
It depends on your views on the nature of omnipresence, though this question is ultimately pointless since the nature omnipresence, along with omniscience omnipotence with God, is beyond human comprehension. Though, I still maintain God is not apart of nature.
deus sive natura, or no god at all
>That doesn't mean we are separated from nature
Being a ruler over something implies separation.
A king is not a king if he is a subject.
A ruler is separated by hierarchy, yes, but they are still part of the pyramid in which forms the hierarchy.
The king and subjects are in fact separated, but the king is still a part of the subjects lives in the same way God is a part of nature.
>noooo you can't enjoy the earth you have to live in the desert and pray to God to save you from your body
yep sounds real nature affirming
It's a volcano god when you want to use that as an insult but when it suits you it becomes anti-nature. War is more fundamental than the spirits worshiped as gods at the time, the literal volcano reflects the highest order. The Holy land is fruitful, Eden is a garden.
>It's a volcano god when you want to use that as an insult but when it suits you it becomes anti-nature.
yes, volcano god in the sense that it is not the most high God of Platonism no matter how hard theologians try to square it, anti-nature in the sense that you are called upon to shun the very world your God is credited with creating. Christianity is a heresy of gnosticism, not the other way around.
It doesn't matter that there are people out there willing to reinforce your delusions, you're still delusional and actively avoiding learning to maintain the delusion.
being called delusional by a christer apologist is badge of honor
Is what any zealot trying to protect his delusions would say. You can't even consider alternatives which means you can't think. You've sacrificed the ability to think for a false sense of security like the worst religious fanatics and then pretend you're better. You're worse than the worst of them.
>believing in my dogma means i am a critical thinker who is able to weigh alternatives
>not believing in my dogma means you are a dumb zealot who cannot think for himself
you sound terribly stupid, I would not seek your counsel on any spiritual matter
I offered you the suggestion of sincerely thinking instead of being this stereotypical useless retard you are. You're unable to consider anything you associate with some label you've declared heretical and you're too dumb to figure out how that's dogmatic. I'm spoonfeeding you that my point is to consider fucking alternatives and you tell me I'm the one being dogmatic. There is no creature dumber than retards like you. You can't discuss or say anything about any subject.
>i might have dumped eight bible verses worth about 90% of the characters i typed ITT as justification for my view, but don't you dare accuse me of being dogmatic
What Bible verse is my actual point about considering alternatives based on? There is nothing more depressing than being face to face with pure mindless decay like you. No matter how hard I try to imagine the dumbest, most useless and evil retard I can retards like you still outdo my imagination by a large margin.
Your entire framework of responding to anything and everything said to you, when you are in between your own direct dogmatic schizo utterances, is to call your opponent delusional or retarded. That's not at all very convincing, maybe if you were delivering a sermon to people who already agree with you it would make sense to denounce everybody not in the cult as ignoramuses as a means of reinforcing their faith, but since those people aren't here you sound like an arrogant sack of shit. Go kiss some feet.
Just grasp the absolute basics of how statements work, understand the bare minimum needed to communicate before polluting the world with your shit.
I point out you're avoiding even considering any alternatives to what you've decided is holy truth and your response is to go even harder with the deranged zealotry, making declarations about what I mean not based on anything I fucking said so you can avoid thinking.
>That's not at all very convincing
Everything you say is braindead with no logical structure or relationship to anything else said, what do you think I'm trying to convince you of when I call you out for your mindless behavior? Why not engage with what's actually said instead of making up endless deranged stories?
Christianity is Platonism for the masses. Literally nothing, not a singular fucking thing from it is original, it is spiritual homosexuality
The desert is part of the earth, albeit.
genuinely good question. i took a roadside picnic to snack on some nuts. i am a coffee to shit factory with respiratory sequencing most of the day. idk word salad
<--strongly recommend this book to anyone interested in this topic
>Alan Watts
Oh, good grief.
he's a good author bro don't know why you need to act like you're above him. read him or don't, it's your choice.
Thinking itself separates man from nature because in order for there to be knowledge there must be a knower, and for there to be a knower man must be able to distinguish himself from his surroundings.
It is the sign of a LULZ mind to be unable to entertain a position without endorsing it.
i believe this shit starts in the market, when you can choose to buy an octopus to bring home for your wife to cook, instead of eating the same slop your slaves farm every day... or something
Aristotle was not western (faustian)
The Sophists with their rhetorical approach were the first philosophers, who completely changed the subject of philosophy from nature to society. The famous quote of Protagoras "The man is the measure of all things" literally said gtfo to multiple naturalist philosophies of that time, because they contradicted each other and were useless (in contrast to rhetoric with which you could dominate other people at assemblies for example).