What's your take on Tartaria as a term? Are we really supposed to believe it is not related to the word Tartarus?

What's your take on Tartaria as a term? Are we really supposed to believe it is not related to the word Tartarus?

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It probably made sense from the pov of an early modern european who didn't know much about the place or the people.
    Culturally and economically, one should at least differentiate the siberian forest people from the steppe people.
    Ethnically, it goes further into several siberian ethnicities, mongols, turks - all of which could then be separated into fluid arrangements of tribes in fluid political associations.
    The map also appears to include persia, which most europeans probably wouldn't, knowing fully well that the way of life of the persians was different to that of the steppe people.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >Culturally and economically, one should at least differentiate the siberian forest people from the steppe people.
      Why's that? Turks didn't exist until after 300 AD and didn't pick up the character we associate with them until around 1500 AD. The Asian phenotype didn't explode until the Chinese population did until around the late 15th century. It would be appropriate to say that the entire region of modern day Russia used to be R1a dominant with a red haired European phenotype. The reason Persians are included with the Scythians makes sense- they all speak Iranic. There is no "steppe" identity at this point.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        That's why I said culturally and economically, not ethnically. Steppe and taiga bring about totally different economies and societies, so if you want to just cut the place into two, you should divide like that. (I don't actually know how similar these were culturally - maybe one should just say they are similar in way of life, not culturally).

        Wouldn't that be the other way around? Tartarus/Tartar is a Greek word, not Turkic. It predates the Turks by almost two millennia.

        But it didn't come to mean steppe people until much later, at a time when europeans who used it were also exposed to the mongol word "tatar".

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >at a time when europeans who used it were also exposed to the mongol word "tatar".
          It's not a Mongolian word either. The only root that matches is IE, which means the Greeks had been using it the earliest. They even explicitly stated that the opening to Tartarus is in a foggy land far to the northeast.

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Are we really supposed to believe it is not related to the word Tartarus?
    But it is? It comes from the Tatars but the R was added to make it more pronounceable and yes, because it makes it sound like Tartarus.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Wouldn't that be the other way around? Tartarus/Tartar is a Greek word, not Turkic. It predates the Turks by almost two millennia.

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Tartaria was the mythical antediluvian homeland of the Altaic peoples. When the world was hit with the Great Flood, countless civilizations, like Atlantis and Lemuria, fell into obscurity. Tartaria wasn't spared. The mud and debris upheavaled by the flood befell and covered their once magnificent civilization and the Tartarian race was nearly wiped out. Some Tartarians took refuge in secluded valleys and mountains to the east and survived. When they came out malnourished and desolate, they had lost everything, from their homes to even their physical great stature. These survivors then turned to pastoralism and became the ancestors of Altaics, grazing on the endless plains that now cover their once glorious civilization.

    The term Tartaria was intentionally misunderstood and the middle R added by the Greeks in order to verbally villify these Tartarian steppenomads from "hell".

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      SteppeBlack folk behave like they come from hell and they''re most certainly going there too. Tartars was a fitting word.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Tatar doesn't have a meaning in Turkic. It looks like the original word was Tartar but the Russian trill caused the first r to drop in the 18th century.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        It wasn’t. The oldest mentions of the term clearly lack the r.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Which sources?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Chinese and Old Turkic sources.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Like?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            here
            https://gprivate.com/60hmx

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You didn't actually cite a source. You just did what we all did: typed in google and fail to find anything. There are no sources attesting to "Tatar" and I can't even find much on "Tartar". However, if you look up the etymology, it isn't Mongolian and it isn't Turkic. Therefore Tartar is only a Greek word referring to a deep chasm/abyss.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >The oldest mentions of the term
          Where?

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >Tartarus (n.)in Homer and older Greek mythology, the sunless abyss below Hades, from Greek Tartaros, of uncertain origin; "prob. a word of imitative origin, suggestive of something frightful" [Klein].

  5. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    idk, but last tartarian khan/king/konung was the Emelyan Pugachev. https://youtu.be/WtiuoyYawUo

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      I will investigate him. Thanks!

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