What's so difficult to understand ?
What's so difficult to understand ?
Falling into your wing while paragliding is called 'gift wrapping' and turns you into a dirt torpedo pic.twitter.com/oQFKsVISkI
— Mental Videos (@MentalVids) March 15, 2023
What's so difficult to understand ?
Falling into your wing while paragliding is called 'gift wrapping' and turns you into a dirt torpedo pic.twitter.com/oQFKsVISkI
— Mental Videos (@MentalVids) March 15, 2023
Why was the Son created before the Incarnation? It doesn't make sense. (not that vicarious atonement itself makes sense but that's another thing)
No it makes perfect sense. It is extremely important to realize that Jehovah did not send just ANY angel to rescue mankind.
He made the SUPREME sacrifice of sending his only-begotten SON, “the one he was specially fond of.”—Proverbs 8:30; John 3:16.”
This is true because:
ONLY Jehovah’s firstborn Son could measure up to the special needs of the situation involving sinful mankind.
He is such an image of his heavenly Father in showing affection for members of the divinely produced family that he is WITHOUT EQUAL among the sons of God !!!
Since all other intelligent creatures were brought into existence by means of him, his affection for them would certainly be abundant 😀
Are you male or female?
I am a boy !
This is retarded. God is almighty, therefore he could just forgive the sins of men with a slide of hand. Why would he need to sacrifice his first born son?
If only the first born son will do, then it implies that God is not capable of forgiving the sins of humanity a second time
>Why would he need to sacrifice his first born son?
See: https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/Good-News-From-God-Video-Series/video-why-did-jesus-die/
JW as a faith is literally a heresy.
God created the world and all his signs, and yet you are ignoring them instead you are claiming to bear witness to a construct that is so obviously baseless that it is insane.
God has not created your church.
God does not love your church.
He is far more vengeful then you know.
And when the time comes, you will be destroyed along with all the demon worshipers and idolaters.
You just stay with your group out of comfort or because it is familiar, and because the wider world is scary. But God tasks men of faith to wander over water, and by instead remaining sheltered away - and still using his name in vein with every word you utter - you are blaspheming gods name.
Indeed there is a special place in hell for your kind
JW are the original 1st century christians THOUGH
According to JW, how is somebody saved? Is it with faith, works, knowledge of God or something else?
To gain salvation, you must exercise faith in Jesus and demonstrate that faith by obeying his commands.
—Acts 4:10, 12; Romans 10:9, 10; Hebrews 5:9.
The Bible was written by Jehovah's witnesses in the 1st century
The apostles were JWs
No they are not.
The Bible was written down many generations after the events that took place.
It gives a good account but it is not perfect.
The way it must be read is by trying to find the meaning behind the words, that is why there are multiple gospels that partially contradict each other.
Trying to read it word by word, and taking it as literally as possible is bound to lead to heresy.
This is why Lutheranism is also a heresy and released from the firm bounds of tradition it later evolved into our current atheistic marxism and wokeism (it IS just a form of protestantism, make no mistake).
But the JW take it a step further, all you are preaching is just blaspheming god, because you are not reading the Bible as you are supposed to and at the same time saying that it is the original Christianity is the absolute bight of blasphemy
Like moronism, israelite was invented by an americuck in the 19th century
No it wasn't
Jesus founded Jehovah's witnesses in 33 AD during Pentecost in Antioch
Anon you had a chance to call him out on this part
>But God tasks men of faith to wander over water, and by instead remaining sheltered away
You could have brought up your preaching work and how many have died doing it.
Come on JWanon don't drop the ball now.
The Holy Ghost impregnated Virgin Elisabeth first, the Virgin Mary was a six month God second.
>ONLY Jehovah’s firstborn Son could measure up to the special needs of the situation involving sinful mankind.
>He is such an image of his heavenly Father in showing affection for members of the divinely produced family that he is WITHOUT EQUAL among the sons of God !!!
> Since all other intelligent creatures were brought into existence by means of him, his affection for them would certainly be abundant 😀
I’m not even a christcuck but this makes way more sense than the typical catholicuck “father son and holy ghost are le separate but le same”
The problem with the NT is a lot of the content was clearly written by people with different ideas of what Jesus was. some clearly think he was god, others seem to see him as the son of god. The trinity is the absolute madness you get when trying to tie all of these contradictory passages together.
They all had the same idea of who Jeuss was, and there is no trinity in the Bible.
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
- Matthew 28:18-19
"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;"
- Colossians 2:2
"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."
- 1 John 5:7
>Matthew 28:18-19
The verse literally says that power was GIVEN to Jesus. Jesus cannit be God because God is ABOVE him.
>Colossians 2:2
This verse literally makes a distinction between Jesus and Christ
>1 John 5:7
Bruh
"The passage appears to have originated as a gloss in a Latin manuscript around the end of the 4th century,[3] and was subsequently incorporated into the text of the Old Latin Bible during the 5th century, though not the earliest Vulgate manuscripts.[4]"
"It is absent from the Ethiopic, Aramaic, Syriac, Slavic, Armenian, Georgian, and Arabic translations of the Greek New Testament."
"A Trinitarian gloss (marginal note) known as the Johannine Comma, added to Latin translations of the epistle in the 4th century,[26] was interpolated (added to the main text) within 1 John 5:7-8 over the course of the Middle Ages.[26] Although no Greek manuscripts before the 15th century include the passage"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannine_Comma
You posted a FAKE verse !
Because the statement “the Word was WITH God” indicates that TWO separate persons are discussed in the verse.
It is not possible for the Word to be “WITH God” and at the same time BE God Almighty !!
The context also confirms that the Word is not Almighty God. John 1:18 states that “no man has seen God at any time.” However, people did see the Word, Jesus, for John 1:14 states that “the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory.”
>You posted a FAKE verse !
No, those are all inspired verses penned by three of the apostles. I just disproved the notion that there isn't a Trinity in the Bible.
But you didn't answer my question. Which experts?
Why not simply forgive all sin? Is it not in God's power?
Where would the justice be in doing that ?
justice? I thought you want God's mercy and grace, not God's justice. By the way, torturing someone eternally because he committed a finite crime is not justice, anon.
I agree, that's why hell doesn't exist
https://www.jw.org/en/library/videos/ebtv/is-hell-real/
The Romans took the idea of Protophanes and tried to haphazardly apply it to a Dionysian deity.
God is not Holy Spirits retard, God is the Holy Ghost, a spook. I am Frankenstein today.
at least it makes more sense than mainstream trinitarianism
That's why real christians don't believe in the trinity !
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/g201308/trinity/
Jehovah is Almighty God
The holy spirit is God's eternal power
Jesus is Jehovah's right hand man
It's simple !
oooooooo spooky cross
Idolatry !
Demonic !
Gonna cry? Piss your pants maybe?
>Jehovah is Almighty God
>The holy spirit is God's eternal power
You can't separate God's power from God. God's power is a characteristic of God, it's not a different person. If the Holy Spirit is God's power, does that mean there's a person for God's love also? What about God's omniscience?
Why do you keep calling the holy spirit a person when you said yourself that is his power ?
I am unbanned !
Yes the cross is idolatry
>Why do you keep calling the holy spirit a person when you said yourself that is his power ?
Because if the Holy Spirit is the power of God, then why do you call it "holy Spirit"? Just call it "God's power". If you call it "holy spirit", you are implying that it is something that it's not.
If everything can be reduced to idolatry, that would mean even thinking about Jesus is idolatry because you have to conjure up a thought of him
Pretty sure you're supposed to be banned here, frenchfag.
Begone, blasphemer.
The Power of Christ compels You!
The Power of Christ compels You!
Were you specifically chosen by the Watchtower to proseletyze the JW cult on LULZ?
No I am here of my own will !
The good news must be preached EVERYWHERE including LULZ !
Why is your LORD JEHOVAH God murdering Ukrainians, he's a sick fuck like you. Go fuck a duck, you and your LORD JEHOVAH God whack job.
Kys christcuck
Glory to Ukraine
remember kids, don't do drugs
>>>/x/
Jehovah is the happy God and is he NEVER cruel
He is LOVE and I am PROUD to worship Him !!!
When did he do that ?
What are you talking about ?
The hebrew word is ruʹach
It means breath
God sends out his breath by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will.—Psalm 104:30; 139:7.
>God sends out his breath by projecting his energy to any place to accomplish his will
How does that work? Is God located outside of the material world? Is He located inside the material world?
>Is God located outside of the material world?
Yes !
Does that mean He is not omnipresent?
Yes !
Jehovah lives in heaven
He is not omnipresent
But if He was omnipresent, He would be even more powerful, right? If He was omnipresent, He would be even more perfect than He is.
Isn't God supposed to be the greatest, most powerful conceivable entity?
>He would be even more powerful, right?
Why ?
>Isn't God supposed to be the greatest, most powerful conceivable entity
God isn't conceived, he is
Using the cross in worship = idolatry
>why
I'm just taking it to its logical conclusion, trying to anger the Jehovah's Witness
>using the cross in worship is idolatry because i say so!
Skydaddy is your Daddy.
Skysonny is your Sonny.
Skyghost is your Ghost.
Skyghost is the madlad who cucked Joseph
yep
Cringe and heresy pilled
Jesus is just an Idol nothing more.
God is the Order of the world, and the Holy Spirit is that what let’s this order emerge again and again.
Or God is manifested, and the Holy Spirit is manifestation.
But Jesus is either a metaphor for man, a prophet, or he is just a false idol like many others before him
Why does the known history of JW then begin in the 19th century?
How many JWs were there in the 10th to 18th century? And if 0, how do you know that any of the stuff you say has its origins that far back?
>Why does the known history of JW then begin in the 19th century?
Because in his illustration of the wheat and the weeds, Jesus foretold a great rebellion (apostasy) against true Christianity. (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43)
For a long period of time, true Christians and false Christians would be indistinguishable. Just as Jesus foretold, the apostasy flourished after the apostles died. (Acts 20:29, 30)
>How many JWs were there in the 10th to 18th century?
Jesus indicated that there would continue to be genuine anointed Christians on earth to defend the truth. (Matthew 13:24-30)
I of course cannot say for sure who they were.
but through the centuries many have denounced unscriptural beliefs and practices.
Some of these were Archbishop Agobard of Lyons in the 9th century, Peter of Bruys, Henry of Lausanne, and Waldo in the 12th century, John Wycliffe in the 14th century, and Henry Grew, Charles Russell and George Storrs in the 19th century.
In the 16th century, Tyndale was used by Jehovah to translate the Bible in English. Then he used other men who loved the Bible to progressively re-establish the truth (the wheat) which was overgrown by the weed. That includes the Bible students, which then adopted the name Jehovah's Witnesses in 1931 !
How do you know that you are not one of the many heresies that the Bible talks about?
See: https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/good-news-from-god/recognize-true-worshippers/
How do you know this list is complete?
Also Suffi Muslims fit all the criteria there.
Additionally, it is certain that the Bible isnt gods word because it does not claim itself to be, the gospels are accounts by real people. The only book that claims to be gods word is the Quran therefore by your own definition the only true religion is Suffism
>How do you know this list is complete?
These are all the criteria in the Bible
>Also Suffi Muslims fit all the criteria there
When did they honor God's name Jehovah ?
Show me
FTFY
Father - Fundamental structural forces of the universe
Son - The living things that exist in the universe
Spirit - The minds of the living things that exist in the universe
Moreover,
These are all things that flow through each other. We, in our exact position, are supposed to play the part of the son. We are all "children of god" as Jesus was. Our responsibility is to take on the same burden as "the son" (love your enemy, speak the truth even if it kills you, aim to perform miracles and end any suffering you encounter).
It's all really deep metaphor.
These actions are all guided by the devine "spirit" and bolstered by the structure "the father" provides"
divine*
>Father - Fundamental structural forces of the universe
How can the "fundamental structural forces" of the universe also create the universe? The forces of the universe cannot predate the universe itself. They are part of the universe, and they give structure to the universe.
Also, even if the fundamental forces could create the universe, how can they feel any love for their creation?
>Son - The living things that exist in the universe
Define "living things". Is a plant a "living thing"?
If it's a metaphor, then we don't really have to do any of that. Why would I love my neighbor if heaven, hell and eternal life are just metaphors?
Heaven is real and here on earth. It can be experienced by living a just and good life. Hell is real and here on earth. It can be experienced by living unjustly and doing wrong.
Yes, plants are living things. Every living thing is a child of god, or "the son".
This stuff is all best practices handed down by proto-civilized people from an insanely long time ago. Its all wisdom and metaphor.
The JW cultists are not Christians. They deny the diety of Christ. Jesus is God, not a created being.
In John 1:1 for example,
New World Translation: "and the word was a god."
King James Bible: "and the word was God."
See the subtle difference.
>New World Translation: "and the word was a god."
How do they justify this? The original Greek text clearly says "and God is the Word" (Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος).
While many Bible translators render the verse to say that the word is God, others see the need to render it differently. In the original-language text, the two occurrences of “God” (Greek, the·osʹ) at John 1:1 are grammatically different.
In the first occurrence, the word “God” is preceded by the Greek definite article, while the article does not appear before the second occurrence. Many scholars note that the absence of the definite article before the second the·osʹ is significant.
For example, The Translator’s New Testament says regarding this absence of the article: “In effect it gives an adjectival quality to the second use of Theos (God) so that the phrase means ‘The Word was divine.’” (The Translator’s New Testament, page 451.)
Other scholars and Bible translations point to this same distinction.
>In the first occurrence, the word “God” is preceded by the Greek definite article
What definitive article? Are you referring to "τόν"?
>Many scholars note that the absence of the definite article before the second the·osʹ is significant.
Significant in what way? The definitive article that is missing is "ό". It is missing because it is not needed. The phrase "Θεός ήν ο Λόγος" literally means "God is the Word". There's no escaping that.
Please explain to me why you think the phrase "Θεός ήν ο Λόγος" means "a God is the Word".
"Because [the apostle John] has no definite article in front of theos it becomes a description . . . John is not here identifying the Word with God. To put it very simply, he does not say that Jesus was God.”
— William Barclay
“In such a construction the subject and predicate are not the same, equal, identical, or anything of the sort.”
— James Allen Hewett
I am confused. Again, the phrase "Θεός ήν ο Λόγος" means "God is the Word". That's what it means. There's nothing confusing about that. It's clear as day. Trust me, I am a native speaker. Or don't trust me, I don't really care. You can believe what you want to believe.
>Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος...
In [the] beginning is the Word...
>...καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν...
and the Word is towards [the] God...
>...καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος.
...and God is the Word.
That's the translation, word for word.
Grammatically, John 1:1 is not a difficult verse to translate. It follows familiar, ordinary structures of Greek expression. A lexical (‘interlinear’) translation of the controversial clause would read: ‘And a god was the Word.’ A minimal literal (‘formal equivalence’) translation would rearrange the word order to match proper English expression: ‘And the Word was a god.’
The preponderance of evidence, from Greek grammar, from literary context, and from cultural environment, supports this translation
>‘And a god was the Word.’
>‘And the Word was a god.’
Nope. There's nothing in the text that could be translated as "a God" instead of just "God". There is no "a" in the Greek text.
Yes there is, the lack of article makes it an attribute.
Jesus is not God but a god, in the sense of divine.
Are you saying Jesus is not God but He is divine?
That's what John 1:1 says.
False.
Debunked
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200275936
if theos at Jonh 1:1c is intended as definite or in any way unique or notable, the article should be with it !
And since the article is not with it at John 1:1c, it is not definite nor is it a unique or notable instance. In other words, it may be “a god” as one in a class of “mighty ones” which could include powerful kings, judges, and angels. But it cannot be “God” (or anything synonymous) who is certainly unique or notable (and even “the only one of its kind”) !
Hence John does say that Jesus is not God but is divine, or 'a god'.
I'm not clicking your advertisement link.
>if theos at Jonh 1:1c is intended as definite or in any way unique or notable, the article should be with it !
No, not necessarily.
God is the Word = The God is the Word
These phrases basically mean the same thing. The first phrase is missing the definitive article, but that's not a problem, is it?
>it may be “a god” as one in a class of “mighty ones” which could include powerful kings, judges, and angels
Powerful kings, judges and angels are not referred to as "Gods" in the Bible. Ever.
>But it cannot be “God”
Of course it can. It is crystal clear, actually.
Since most languages (including NT Greek and modern English) usually go from the definite to the indefinite (or specific to general) when using predicate nouns, this “rule” often seems significant.
when we use predicate nouns we most often are identifying some specific thing or person (definite) as being one in a certain group or class (indefinite): “the mailman is a veteran;” “the dog in our yard is a poodle;” “my wife [the wife of me] is a lawyer.”
We rarely identify or describe something by going from the indefinite to the definite. In other words we rarely say something like “a veteran is the mailman” or “a poodle is the dog in our yard” or “a lawyer is my wife.”
So if one has the article and the other does not, it is natural that the one with the article is the subject. But this is not because of "word order" or some rule of grammar. The predicate noun does not HAVE to be without the article.
the Bible uses 'god' to refer to humans (John 10:34,35), false deities (Exodus 12:12), angels (Psalms 8:5) and even Satan (2 Corinthians 4:4)
The Bible refers to Jesus as a god in John 1:1, but he is a god compared to humans, not because he is Almighty God himself.
Angels are also gods compared to humans for example, that is why they are called as such
However there is no one else like God and Jehovah God alone is the Almighty (Psalms 83:18) and no one can reach his divinity as he is far above anything in existence, only He is Divine in the Supreme sense.
Okay, these are good points. I'll look into those. Still, as a native speaker, I find it impossible to read John 1:1 as to mean anything other than "God is the Logos/Word".
Yes, you are right about that. The context of John 1:1 is the regular context of who God is, because it says "in the beginning."
the “beginning” referred to in this verse cannot mean “the beginning” of God, because God had no beginning.
Jehovah God is “from EVERLASTING to EVERLASTING.” (Psalm 90:1, 2)
However, the Word, Jesus Christ, did have a BEGINNING 🙂
He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”—Revelation 3:14.
John 1:1 doesn't say Jesus is God at all.
The phrase “the Word was a god” describes the divine or godlike NATURE that Jesus possessed before he came to earth.
He can be described in this way because of his role as God’s Spokesman and his unique position as the firstborn Son of God through whom God created all other things.
Meds.
Jesus is divine in origin. He lived in heaven before being reincarnated as a baby. When on earth he was a just man stripped of all divinity.
false it says the word was with God and the word was God
pretty clearly
another thing that the Bible says in Revelation is about how satan shows up at the end as in
satan the beast
the anti Christ
and the false prophet
Father
Chirst
Holy Spirit
satan copies God
it's the only thing that makes the trinity certain, now how it works i dont know
God the Father (whose name is Jehovah) is the only true God.
Jesus Christ is his firstborn son, is inferior to God, and was created by God.
The Holy Spirit is not a person; it is God's active force.
God is a single being
Jehovah is alone, and above all other beings
Jehovah created everything that exists
Jehovah has a son called Jesus Christ
Jesus is not God
Jesus is not equal to God
Jesus was God's first creation
Jehovah then created everything else through Jesus Christ
Jesus says the Father is greater, but John 1:1 says the Word is God
and the Holy Spirit is a person, as Jesus saw it in the form of a dove
the image satan makes about God in Revelation is pretty aparent, three different persons, same beast
>but John 1:1 says the Word is God
It says he is divine, not God.
>and the Holy Spirit is a person
It is not. The holy spirit is God’s power in action, his active force. (Micah 3:8; Luke 1:35)
>the image satan makes about God in Revelation is pretty aparent, three different persons, same beast
Schizo babble.
Jw was born in 33 AD in Antioch though
oh come on, read it yourself, you see the three persons in Revelation or not? literally an unholy trinity vs the Holy one
say whatever you want, but the image of God that satan has is three different persons and one God
i dont know how it works, but there is
The meaning of the beasts is all explained here
https://www.jw.org/en/library/magazines/watchtower-study-may-2022/Revelation-What-It-Means-for-Gods-Enemies/
come on, those are things you people believe
people 2k years ago though rome was the beast etc etc
till i dont see Christ in a cloud i dont think we are even near the end
the current world era entered the last days in 1914 and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who WORSHIP GOD ACCEPTABLY !
All other present-day religions are FALSE, identified with Babylon the Great the harlot of Revelation 17, and they will soon be destroyed by the United Nations, which is represented in scripture by the scarlet-colored wild beast of Revelation chapter 17. This development will mark the beginning of the great tribulation.
Satan will subsequently use world governments to attack Christians, an action that will prompt God to begin the war of Armageddon, during which all forms of government and all people not counted as Christ's sheep will be destroyed.
After Armageddon, God will extend his heavenly kingdom to include earth, which will be transformed into a paradise similar to the Garden of Eden !!!!
Most of those who had died before God's intervention will gradually be resurrected during the thousand year judgment day. This judgment will be based on their actions after resurrection rather than past deeds.
At the end of the thousand years, Christ will hand all authority back to God. Then a final test will take place when Satan is released to mislead perfect mankind. Those who fail will be destroyed, along with Satan and his demons. The result will be a fully tested, glorified human race on earth.
Jesus Christ began to rule in heaven as king of God's kingdom in October 1914, and Satan was subsequently ousted from heaven to the earth, resulting in woe to humanity.
Jesus rules invisibly, from heaven, perceived only as a series of "signs".
Jesus' presence includes an unknown period beginning with his inauguration as king in heaven in 1914, and ending when he comes to bring a final judgment against humans on earth ٩(◕‿◕｡)۶
oh come on
See
Christ made Himself equal with God. That's what it says in multiple places.
>Therefore the israelites sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
- John 5:18
>I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
- John 8:24
>Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
- John 8:58
>I and my Father are one.
- John 10:30
I could go on with John, but let's quote some others.
>Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
- Acts 20:28
God has purchased the church of God with his own blood. This is a reference to Jesus as God.
>But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
>For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
>So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
- Romans 14:10-12
>Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
>That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
>And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
- Philippians 2:9-11
Now compare this with what Isaiah said:
>Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
>I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
- Isaiah 45:22-23
Jesus’ opposers accused him of making himself equal to God. (John 5:18; 10:30-33)
However, Jesus NEVER claimed to be on the same level as Almighty God. He said: “The Father is greater than I am.”—John 14:28.
>John 8:24
Yes, salvation is possible through faith in Jesus. It doesn't at all say that Jesus is God so I don't know why you quoted it.
>John 8:58
This was not a reference to God's proclamation in Genesis, Jesus was here referring to an existence from before Abraham and continuing down till he spoke.
>John 10:30
That this did not mean that Jesus claimed to be the Father or to be God is evident from his reply !
The oneness to which Jesus referred must be understood in harmony with the context of his statement.
He was speaking of his works and his care of the “sheep” who would follow him. His works, as well as his words, demonstrated that there was unity, not disunity and disharmony, between him and his Father, a point his reply went on to emphasize. (John 10:25, 26, 37, 38; John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38-40; 8:16-18.)
As regards his “sheep,” he and his Father were likewise at unity in their protecting such sheeplike ones and leading them to everlasting life. (John 10:27-29; Ezekiel 34:23, 24.)
Jesus’ prayer on behalf of the unity of all his disciples, including future ones, shows that the oneness, or union, between Jesus and his Father was not as to identity of person but as to PURPOSE and ACTION !
In this way Jesus’ disciples could “ALL BE ONE,” just as he and his Father ARE ONE.—John 17:20-23.
Nobody asked for the heretic view.
Heretic according to whom ?
Yeah, it proves that Jesus is not God !
"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:"
- Matthew 28:18-19
that's a pretty good one
I agree. Another good one from the Gospel is Matthew 26:63-64
>And the high priest arose, and said unto him, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
>But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
>Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
>Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.
So you admit Jesus is not God
He calls himself Christ, son of God, son of Man and sitting on the RIGHT HAND of power (God)
>While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
>Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The Son of David.
>He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
>The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
>If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
- Matthew 22:41-45
Verse 41 is a quote from psalms 110:1 which says Jehovah and not Lord.
So it says ' ‘Jehovah said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies beneath your feet”’?'
Jehovah made Jesus king in heaven, so he is Lord. Even though Jesus is lord znd king, he has another Sovereign above him.
1 Corinthians 11:3
"But I want you to know that the head of every man is the CHRIST; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, THE HEAD OF THE CHRIST IS GOD"
>Acts 20:28
The Scriptures do at times personify the holy spirit, but this does not prove that the holy spirit is a person.
The Bible also personifies wisdom, death, and sin. (Proverbs 1:20; Romans 5:17, 21)
For example, wisdom is said to have “works” and “children,” and sin is depicted as seducing, killing, and working out covetousness.—Matthew 11:19; Luke 7:35; Romans 7:8, 11
>Philippians 2:9-11
Obviously, Paul did not believe that Jesus was Almighty God. Otherwise, how could God exalt Jesus to a superior position ? —Philippians 2:9
>Isaiah 45:22-23
Jehovah made Jesus the king of heavens, so naturalky all knees will bow to him (except God's)
Compare with this verse:
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
« Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected, it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone. »
It could literally not be even MORE CLEAR THAN THIS
Jesus will rule for 1000 years, then he will give back the throne to his Father
Not only does this prove what I said, it also proves that Jesus is NOT God and that Jesus is a SERVANT of God
>However, the Word, Jesus Christ, did have a BEGINNING 🙂
In Genesis 1:1 it says, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth."
That isn't an indication that God had a beginning, you just can't read.
>He is “the beginning of the creation by God.”—Revelation 3:14.
See also John 17:5
>And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
And again, Colossians 1:16-17
>All things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
We have quoted nothing but God's word in the Bible. That's all there is to say, end of discussion. People should see the truth while there is still time. This is my opportunity to tell people that truth - now it's up to you whether to believe what Scripture says or not.
>In Genesis 1:1 it says, "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth."
Yes the earth and heavens had a beginning
So you concur that the Word HAD A BEGINNING !
>John 17:5
Jesus is God's first creation so he was there when he began creating the world
You are not contradicting what I said at all.
>Colossians 1:16-17
Yes, God used “his beloved Son” (Colossians 1:13) in creating the things “in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible.”
This would include the millions of other spirit sons in Jehovah God’s heavenly family, as well as the physical universe. (Ge 1:1; Da 7:9, 10; Joh 1:3; Re 5:11)
>We have quoted nothing but God's word in the Bible.
Misquoted*
>should see the truth while there is still time. This is my opportunity to tell people that truth - now it's up to you whether to believe what Scripture says or not.
For one thing, the Bible does not mention the word “Trinity.” For another, Jesus never claimed to be equal to God. Instead, Jesus worshipped God. (Luke 22:41-44)
You refuse to read the evidence I provided
>The Bible refers to Jesus as a god in John 1:1,
No actually it says the Word was God Himself. This is repeated throughout the Scripture, see the chart here for example:
This has been debunked
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200275936
Where did I say he was not born of the virgin Mary ?
You posted a fake verse
Be a man and accept your mistake.
The trinity doctrine DISHONORS Jehovah God !
NO ONE is his equal nor did he have a fleshly mother, since Jesus was not God.
the Trinity doctrine has confused and diluted people’s understanding of God’s true position. It prevents people from accurately knowing the Universal Sovereign, Jehovah God, and from worshiping him on his terms.
As theologian Hans Küng said:
“Why should anyone want to add anything to the notion of God’s oneness and uniqueness that can only dilute or nullify that oneness and uniqueness?”
But that is what belief in the Trinity has done
Read all my posts, I quoted several experts
>Where did I say he was not born of the virgin Mary ?
I'm not saying you said that. I'm just curious, if Jesus was born from the virgin Mary, who was his father?
He didn't have a human father
Since Jesus created Jeuss directly, his father is God
Okay, if Jesus was not born of the virgin Mary, then who is his father? The bible clearly says he was born from the virgin, doesn't it?
The JW are heretics who deny God, their cosmology doesn't make any sense as a result of that.
>Powerful kings, judges and angels are not referred to as "Gods" in the Bible. Ever.
Not quite. There are false gods mentioned in the Bible which are nothing more than idols. See for instance the Psalms.
"For all the gods of the nations are idols: but the LORD made the heavens." - Psalm 96:5
Also, in addition to these two definitions, there are "gods" referred to in the sense that they have a position of being judge over others, but this sense is again without the sense of being divine or the right to claim to be. So, for example you have the Pharisees getting the following response:
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?"
- John 10:35
But this is quickly shown for what it is by looking up the full quotation in the Psalms again:
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations."
- Psalm 82:6-8
This third sense of the word "gods" being referred to as simply judges, is taken from the book of Exodus, where the terms for judge and god (lower-case) are used interchangeably in a few places. In their context they mean basically the same thing. They are not to be confused with the divine. These are to be distinguished both from false gods / idols, as well as most importantly from the One True God of the Bible, the Lord and Creator to whom all worship is due.
>Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
- Nehemiah 9:6
>{A Prayer of Moses the man of God.} Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
>Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
- Psalm 90:1-2
You won't be able to convince him because he performs the miracle of reinterpretation on this verse every time it's pointed out to him.
Consider the following, more accurate translations:
“In the beginning the Word existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was divine.”—The Bible—An American Translation, 1935, by J.M.P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed.
“The Logos existed in the very beginning, the Logos was with God, the Logos was divine.”—The Bible—Containing the Old and New Testaments, 1950, by James Moffatt.
“The Word was in the beginning, and the word was with God, and the word was a god.”—The New Testament in an Improved Version, 1808, edited by Thomas Belsham, based on a New Testament translation by William Newcome.
“In the beginning was the Word. And the Word was with God. So the Word was divine.”—The Authentic New Testament, 1958, by Hugh J. Schonfield.
Those are inaccurate translations.
False
By whose authority do you know these are more accurate?
Greek experts say so, and what they say makes sense in the context.
John 1:1 literally proves that Jesus cannot be God
Who are these experts? Who is to say that God didn't mean something different than what the 'experts' gathered from the verse?
It's the same "experts" that want to groom children into mutliating themselves, and the same ones that think there's nothing wrong with sodomy. They're not really experts at all.
The problem is that there's already a greek word for "divine"; it is "θεϊκόν" or "θείον". If the Word was divine, the phrase used would probably have been something like: θείος Λόγος, instead of Θεός Λόγος.
The phrase "Θεός [ήν ο] Λόγος" simply means "God [is the] Word]".
By the way, the phrase "άνθρωπος ήν ο Ιωάννης" would be translated as "human is John", not "a human is John".
the son IS GOD as john 1:1 says
and it says God has no begining nor end so it's hard dude
even tho the prophecy from isaiah 53 doesnt really says it is God or was even divine
just a faithful son of man
>It's a Christian infighting thread
I'm not rereading all of your posts.
Another victory for Jehovah !
>I can't produce any evidence for my unfalsifiable claims!
>Victory!
>>I can't produce any evidence for my unfalsifiable claims!
!
That's christianity 101 anon
JW is a cult created around the 1870s in Pennsylvania. It doesn't exist before that, although it ripped off some Arianism ideas.
Yeah but all christian groups just assert a load of crap they can't substantiate. This is why we have threads like this because it's just two groups making a load of shit up and insisting they're right and the other is wrong.
>all christian groups just assert a load of crap they can't substantiate
I've been carefully substantiating everything I've claimed with the Bible. Unfortunately not everyone does this. The difference between most groups is that they don't actually do this, they just take a few things out of context at most.
They don't realize what Peter said in the New Testament, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation." (2 Peter 1:20)
It has already been proven by mathematics that JWs are the true religion:
http://www.biblefriendlybooks.com/2021/07/is-there-way-to-determine-which.html?m=1
If youd deny it that means you argue against logic
Did Jesus exist before the original sin?
Yes
Nothing. It's just retarded is all.