What would American music look like without blacks?


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What would American music look like without blacks?

  1. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    hutterite, amish music

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    "Heaven or Las Vegas" would be the closest thing to rap

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Probably like this song

    I think this 50's middle class popular music is a snapshot from a time when blacks were totally othered in American society. Since those in the bubble of postwar property were almost entirely white, they almost entirely dictated what pop culture was selected for in the market.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Black music had a more substantial foundation in the 50s when there was some black middle class and they had their own record labels, radio stations, DJs, etc. the events of the 60s utterly ruined all of that so nowadays they're reduced to grunting about crime and hos over a shitty beat and all the black labels like King and Chess are long gone, the music is all shat out by Sony and Universal now. how do you go from Ray Charles to drill rap in one human lifetime?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous
    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVN-uwgOe3E

      The music would have evolved over time though, it's not like it was just 1950's music before that for all time, it developed too.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Lmao blacks played jazz, were involved in most rock bands, doo wop, etc. Blacks were on the music scene influencing it since the 20's and 30's. All American music stems from blacks. Keep coping this is just fact

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Retard, the music that I posted was from a pre-rock and roll era of white dominated middle class pop culture. It was insulated from black music, it was the music of levittowns. It's as close as you can get to white american music without black influence.

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous
  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Despite constant propaganda to the contrary, probably not that different. With the exception of the rise of hip hop/rap. Instead the equivalent of disco morphing into hip hop beats would instead be more full on catchy "fun" electronic music. I'm not sure anyone would bother to put rhyming schemes over beats for better or worse.

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I think white people would have come up with a lot of similar stuff over time, maybe not exactly the same or in the same order but it would have been similar. Jazz almost certainly would have come eventually, and more folk inspired styles of rock would have developed with amplifiers being invented and such.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      sure, white people would find a way to create something on their own, but not jazz though. there's just something about the exagerated swagger of the nagger soul that european culture couldn't quite grasp.
      maybe is their lack of care for social norms or the need for an escapism to cope with extreme poverty, but we wouldn't have it without them.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        jazz sucks

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Garbage opinion

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    worse

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous
  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    No rhythm, corny lyrics

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hispanics, the Spanish invented the guitar, the Spanish and Mexicans use to play guitar on their long trails to calm cattle. The entire cow boy/rodeo/pioneer sound came from the West, into the south and only slightly. All rock originates from the Scots who were making sea shanty tunes for hundreds of years and Spanish infuence, blacks only started making music much later and there are no records of blacks singing while being slaves, their only claim is being next to French classical instruments in Lousiana but that was also mostly white until a couple were taught stuff and moved to nyc to play

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >the Spanish invented the guitar
      They got it from Arabs

      >All rock originates from the Scots who were making sea shanty tunes for hundreds of years and Spanish infuence, blacks only started making music much later and there are no records of blacks singing while being slaves
      Rock comes from the blues, which came from negro spirituals and slave working songs that were transmitted and transformed orally through generations.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Which came from Quaker singing

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Only the christian influence. Africans had their own musical instruments and tradition.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        the proto guitar comes from france

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >They got it from Arabs

        That was the oud which was basically just a lute, and every ancient civilization had some kind of lute

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          blacks didn't create their own lutes, they made shitty rubberband tissuebox tier instruments

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Blacks made crude banjos in the new world based on various African instruments. Guitars weren’t popular in African American music, as well as white southern folk music, outside of Spanish influenced areas, until the latter part of the 19th century when mass produced inexpensive sturdy steel stringed guitars became widely available. The banjo faded quickly as it was less versatile and had cringe associations for blacks with minstrelsy.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Blacks made crude banjos
              arguable, the instruments blacks were capable of making were again on par with something like a string in a stick sticking through a gourd. Hardly banjos

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Rock comes from the blues,
        retard alert

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          But it does

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Rock music doesn't even use the same scale as Blues

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              But it frequently does

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                no, it doesn't. Most examples are cherrypicked. All the popular rock music never used Blues scales, so any attempt to say one influenced the other fundamentally is retarded

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Rock music uses the blues scale all of the time. What are you talking about? Have you ever listend to bith forms of music

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >unpopular musicians nobody has ever heard of use blues scale
                okay?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Stevie Ray Vaughn and ZZ Top are unpopular
                >'60s British rockers who were openly said they were influenced by blues are irrelevant
                ISHYGDDT

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                you're a fucking retard, no shit a blues players use blues scales
                name a single popular rock band that uses blues scale

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                ZZ Top

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                their entire schtick is that they're playing the blues
                you're pretty dumb

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >the blues had no influence on rock
                >rock bands never use blues scales
                >ZZ Top and Stevie Ray Vaughn aren't rock
                Just give up already

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >can't name a single popular rock band that plays blues scale
                So much for black influence on white music huh

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                zz top isn't for people who top, they might as well be called zz bottom. the people who listen to that shit will garunteed ensure your penis is covered in shit and hair.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Spanish invented the Spanish guitar, the English invented the English guitar which wasn't that different basically just a 12 string. The Spanish guitar replaced the English guitar because it's easier to make.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >the English invented the English guitar which wasn't that different basically just a 12 string
        umm no they copied the portuguese guitar

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          that's a different instrument. They're both based on the citole.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >English guitar
        What is the English guitar? I've never heard of this.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          that guy is wrong it wasn't a 12 string guitar it was a 10 string guitar from England. They were replaced in England and the US by the Spanish guitar in the 1830s.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_guitar

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous
            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous
              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous
    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >there are no records of blacks singing while being slaves
      what the fuck

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        actually true

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Less exotic and much more like folk music from the British Isles.

        Hispanics, the Spanish invented the guitar, the Spanish and Mexicans use to play guitar on their long trails to calm cattle. The entire cow boy/rodeo/pioneer sound came from the West, into the south and only slightly. All rock originates from the Scots who were making sea shanty tunes for hundreds of years and Spanish infuence, blacks only started making music much later and there are no records of blacks singing while being slaves, their only claim is being next to French classical instruments in Lousiana but that was also mostly white until a couple were taught stuff and moved to nyc to play

        Slaves definitely sang. Songs like Down By the Riverside are believed to be the work of anonymous slaves IIRC. What's true is there are (afaik) no actual recordings of slaves singing, lol

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >blacks only started making music much later and there are no records of blacks singing while being slaves,
      you really got it wrong on those parts. Blacks made and played music for themselves and their masters as well as being exposed to music through intercultural contact.

      >their only claim is being next to French classical instruments in Lousiana but that was also mostly white until a couple were taught stuff and moved to nyc to play
      A fuckton of mixed an Black folk played and studied French insutrments and music back in the day and many Southern players had a background or education in them or by someone who learned French music.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >there are no records of blacks singing while being slaves
      Holy retard batman. Slaves are documented singing in the fields, for themselves, and for their masters' entertainment by literally everyone that talks about the Antebellum South. "Old Negro Spirituals" are literally just a nicer term for "slave songs".

      I think white people would have come up with a lot of similar stuff over time, maybe not exactly the same or in the same order but it would have been similar. Jazz almost certainly would have come eventually, and more folk inspired styles of rock would have developed with amplifiers being invented and such.

      Jazz is probably the least likely thing to come around because it's a fusion of African American (West Africa) musical styles and Western European music. Very few things are culturally inevitable, sometimes it never occurs to cultures to experiment in a certain way.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I think experimental with a more European melodicity and rhythm and more focus on the singer rather than the instrumental

  12. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Pop and edm would practically sound the same.

  13. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Like music

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      clarksdale

  14. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Country music would be a lot closer to its base of British Isies folk music without the African influences of banjos, blue notes, syncopation, etc. More white immigrant communities would have kept up their musical traditions rather than be assimilated into a sea of African influenced pop music after a generation or two. European high art music would still be a thing for the upper classes, trickling down to the less educated. In modern times, some kind of wonky big brained electronic music would emerge.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      blacks didn't create their own lutes, they made shitty rubberband tissuebox tier instruments

      White people invented most instruments. White people were known equally well for classical music as their raunchy sea shanties and work chants. White people probably would have came up with similar things to today after enough time.

      It was just that black people were coming up with more raunchy and exciting music at the time because they were not expected to uphold ridged moral and musical standards like whites. We still see that today although there's more inorganic social programing in popular music today

      [...]

      Despite constant propaganda to the contrary, probably not that different. With the exception of the rise of hip hop/rap. Instead the equivalent of disco morphing into hip hop beats would instead be more full on catchy "fun" electronic music. I'm not sure anyone would bother to put rhyming schemes over beats for better or worse.

      /thread

      If the poor Celts didn't move to Appalachia/The South and mix with Slaves/Freed Blacks there, there would be no such thing as American Music. They are the foundation of American sound

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >They are the foundation of American sound
        I don't see that being the case. Especially when Black music also got heavy influences from other sources

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Hip-Hop is identical to Arab Music

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          I can name surf rock songs that have more arab influence than the song you posted

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Miserlou is israeli

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Everyone in the Eastern Mediterranean had a version of Misirlou “Egyptian Girl”. Dick Dale’s father was Lebanese and he learned it from his musician uncles.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Celts
        >Appalachia/The South

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      What could have been.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >British Isies

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Banjo is a poor man's lyre and isnt even from Africa.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        It was inspired by African string instruments and Blacks in the new world had their own take on it before it spread elsewhere.

  15. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Better.

  16. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Srs american culture in general would be so boring without blacks. Imagine Canadian culture but slightly more retarted

  17. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    It wouldn't exist. The same applies to American pornography. Blacks are just superior in music, dance and sex.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      They have 0 romance in any of them

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Elvis tho

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Elvis is responsible for opening the floodgates for black influence on white music.

  18. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    White people invented most instruments. White people were known equally well for classical music as their raunchy sea shanties and work chants. White people probably would have came up with similar things to today after enough time.

    It was just that black people were coming up with more raunchy and exciting music at the time because they were not expected to uphold ridged moral and musical standards like whites. We still see that today although there's more inorganic social programing in popular music today

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >It was just that black people were coming up with more raunchy and exciting music at the time because they were not expected to uphold ridged moral and musical standards like whites
      Not even close. Black music got attention as more Black musicians were able to play for white audiences as barriers started to ease

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      [...]
      [...]
      [...]
      [...]

      /thread

      If the poor Celts didn't move to Appalachia/The South and mix with Slaves/Freed Blacks there, there would be no such thing as American Music. They are the foundation of American sound

      Holy cope

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      So, with no blacks, all the good music would be coming out now instead of twenty years ago

  19. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Boring

  20. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    It would’ve been much more kino.

    https://youtu.be/i5NFlHDEBT4
    https://youtu.be/eUpHiqpqmZQ
    https://youtu.be/0QKDpPaHnAE
    https://youtu.be/zzICMIu5zFY
    https://youtu.be/J4HVzd0ot5s
    https://youtu.be/LArGlfEVYqM
    https://youtu.be/1fWObw00WtU
    https://youtu.be/TUOPvtVZwo8
    https://youtu.be/15R6Qv5PZqE
    https://youtu.be/lBW697hYujE
    https://youtu.be/acrzf8CBXgA
    https://youtu.be/qtSXANLE7b0

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Damn, I love Lorena. Such a sad song. I can see why both Union and Confederate soldiers alike deserted when they heard it.

  21. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >muh food
    >muh music
    This is all black people have to “brag” about and it’s usually delusional coping as their music and food is often shit. Even if you argue “oh well, one random obscure guy no one knows actually invented this genre” it’s pointless because whites took it and did better. You also sound like a pathetic we wuzer

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >their music and food is often shit.
      Reality says otherwise lol.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        I guess that's why french cuisine is considered the best in the world. You WILL eat the slimy swamp creatures.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        The only reason black music is popular is because israelites force it down the throats of everyone even in arab states they try to play that disgusting rap garbage.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      U mad?

  22. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Chudcels won't like this post, not one bit

  23. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Blacks can be credited primarily for bringing the music of the poor south to cities making it easier for the music to gain traction. How much of the sound was created primarily by blacks (or whites) is unknowable, but to ignore Scots-Irish and other poor southern whites influence is just pandering.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Records and radio had as much to do with spreading southern music as the Great Migration, as it was an easier way for outsiders to experience the music rather than going to a black club or honky tonk full of southern whites. There was also a parallel migration of whites on the “Hillbilly Highway” to northern industrial centers. Bill Monroe and his brothers started their music careers while working at an oil refinery in Gary, Indiana. Bill Haley was born in Michigan to Kentucky migrants.

  24. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Well the banjo wouldn't exist so that would be something

  25. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    What would black music look like without the Celtic traditions they stole from?

  26. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    It would still be dominated by rock n roll also blacks contributed nothing to american music lets get this straight here you anti white scum.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >blacks contributed nothing to american music
      that's a huge lie

  27. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    No clue. I hate it when (usually white people and hyper-mongrelized blacks who have a white great grandfather that owned his great grandmother) say "all music is black". It's not. The development of non-classical music was like a conversation between different races and cultures. Folk songs and work songs became eventually jazz, jazz became rock and roll, rock and roll became metal - and this is but just one example.
    Rap is the only exclusively black - and exclusively non-White - genre of music, but that still ignores the massive influence of sampling in Rap music which was lent down from these multiracial influences.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >The development of non-classical music was like a conversation between different races and cultures.
      Even classical music was like that. Debussy for example loved Indonesian music, and of course Bartok and Kodaly recorded and were inspired by folk music from various cultures in Eastern and Central Europe.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >jazz, jazz became rock and roll, rock and roll became metal
      Is your only frame of reference those genre's? I'm not sure you get how Black those genre's were early on or how it took a long time for said genre's to actually be played and sold for white audiences.

  28. 7 months ago
    Anonymous
  29. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    ?t=71

  30. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    its interesting how much mental real estate blacks take up in the minds of whites. nobody asks questions like this for any other race, asians in particular

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Ah yes, the famous asian influence on American music

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Because the answer to the question "What would American music look like without asians" is just more white classical pianists/violinists lol

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I agree but blacks are actually very influential in Western music and Asians aren't really at all

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        name one thing blacks invented that's in white music

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          fun

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Dixie is a very fun song, even Lincoln loved it

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >name one thing blacks invented that's in white music
          The banjo. There’s a lineage from West African drum on a stick spike lutes to new world banjos, leading to the explosion of popularity starting with the minstrel craze in the 1840s. Writers including Thomas Jefferson always identified the banjo as a black thing. It’s ironic that an instrument once seen as stereotypically black is now totally identified with hillbillies. There’s a world of difference between a gourd banjo and a Gibson Mastertone but they’re all part of a long chain of evolution.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Blacks didn't invent the banjo

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Then who did? There were similar instruments in the Middle East and Muslims probably brought the concept to West Africa, then banjo like instruments show up in the New World with the slave trade. Early accounts by whites always associate it with blacks. Even if there’s some outside input the instrument was always linked to black people until they largely gave it up due to the availability of cheap mass produced guitars and it became associated with white Appalachia.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Early accounts by whites always associate it with blacks
                False. blacks made poor emitation instruments of local cultures. There's not a single claim blacks had banjos in Africa

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            Blacks didn't invent the banjo

            i think it was that retard from the movie who invented it

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Blacks didn't invent the banjo. It's a retarded we wuz claim because blacks contributed nothing to the US. The reason they claim they made the banjo was because the string and rope emitation "instruments" they made out of gourds were called "banjars".

              Blacks claiming they invented banjos is literally racial semantics

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I’ve played replica gourd banjars with gut strings and they have a plunky earthier sound but are just cruder versions of modern banjos with all their metal strings and parts, tighter tension on the head and the precision of mass manufacturing. I’ve also built a replica of an 1850s banjo and I’m no luthier. It’s a very simple instrument as opposed to the complexity of a guitar or violin body, something a person with few skills or resources can throw together. When 1840s wiggers started putting on the burnt cork and playing banjos, professional luthiers responded to the demand and introduced refinements but before that it was a black folk instrument.
                Ukuleles aren’t Hawaiian. Their antecedents came to the islands with European sailors. By contrast, there’s a clear lineage from West Africa to Earl Scruggs, extensively documented by musicologists.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >just cruder versions of modern banjos
                And I wonder how much of that is due to modern manufacturers attempting to reverse engineer modern instruments to make a functional replica and not any attempt to make an actual "banjar"

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Also there's not a single example of a surviving "banjar" in existence, so anybody claiming to have authentic "banjars" are liars

  31. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    like this i assume?

  32. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Idk, EDM and folk

  33. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    probably better

  34. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    literally identical, blacks just copied what southern whites did

  35. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Blacks are obviously more musically inclined on average. Better sense of rhythm, on average better vocal control etc. But no interest in music theory (or little interest). I am a "light" race realist.

    Taught band. Very easy for a black kid to pick up an instrument, especially piano, percussion, sax, bass.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      So race is not only real, but determines inherent capabilities and achievements and is enough to explain various disparities? Nice.

  36. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    No nagger rap
    No jazz

  37. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Prolly would have looked like sheet music.

  38. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheet_music

  39. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Everyone in this thread hates America. They despise that we aren't more like the Europeans and scorn the unique culture of America. Sorry Angloids, we will never be faggy nerds playing sheet music and will never embrace satanic and Hitlerite Europop. You are our dogs, and whether it's a black or white American we still hold the leash.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Based. Idk if the World Wars broke the Europe man's soul or if it was always happening, but Europe's just a bunch of American client states and they know it.

  40. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Good god this place is a nitwit farm

  41. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Honestly the influence of black music shouldn't be understated and for good reason, because thanks fucking God for jazz.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The only thing that sets Jazz apart from other music is that it's purposefully played by ear and thus is "incorrectly" played. If you want to recognize the influence on proper music of the black, it's that playing music incorrectly became a genre. When you try to distill black influence on modern music 90% of the time the person writing about it will always harken to the old "african tribal roots" and "syncopation" which are nice ways of saying "playing music incorrectly".

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        There is no incorrect way to play music, that implies some authority which decides the correct way to play music. That authority has never existed anywhere and the closest thing would be the faggy tastes of European aristocrats which nobody should pay attention to.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >black music is defined as playing off beat with heavy improvisation
          Uh, sounds like somebody who doesn't know how to play music

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            What is the correct way to play music according to you? Is music defined by following sheet music to you, you soulless homosexual?

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              If you use critical thinking and study black history, and thus have a gauge on black behavior, blacks claiming that "black music" is "purposefully off beat with improvisation" should send up some red flags.

              Especially considering the roots of Jazz being from minstrel shows when wacky retarded music was played for white people in blackface to act silly for laughs

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                The music played at minstrel shows wasn't incorrectly played music either. None of what you said proves your point.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The music played at minstrel shows wasn't incorrectly played
                Source? I bet you know shit all about minstrel music

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                My argument is that music cannot be incorrectly played, so of course my position would be that minstrel music wasn't played incorrectly you dumb homosexual

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                So your real argument is that minstrel music has nothing in common with jazz when it's literally where jazz came from

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Why haven't you actually argued your point in any of your replies? You keep chasing me around like a dog yet can't stand your ground and actually tell me how black music is just music played incorrectly.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >stop replying to me
                Okay, here's a picture of a minstrel show ad, where banjos and jazz music was created

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                You're fundamentally stupid and I've never met a nagger more cowardly and less able to form an argument than you. A homosexual desperate for my attention and a true subhuman.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Okay, here's a picture of a minstrel show ad, where banjos and jazz music was created

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Where does it say anything was invented there?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                This doesn't even contain the word banjo.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                This still isn't evidence. Where is the evidence white people invented the banjo?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm just posting minstrel show ads with whites in blackface with banjos larping as blacks to make people laugh

                Imagine creating an instrument jsut to make fun of black people LOL

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                But they didn't make the instrument. That's like walking into a drag show and saying that drag queens invented women's fashion.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >they didn't make the instrument
                Source?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                You can't prove a negative. Where's the evidence they DID invent it? There are references to banjos far, far before the 1890s and outside of white society.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I can't prove anything
                okay

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                The burden of proof is on the person making the claim, not the person questioning it. If you claim whites invented banjos at minstrel shows, then prove it.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                You sound retarded
                show one piece of evidence of banjos existing before whites made them

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                According to Grove Music, which is VERY meticulously researched, the banjo is thought to have come to America via the Caribbean, where African slaves made it. There is an African instrument called an akonting that's a likely ancestor.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                where's the evidence?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                can you play it?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous
              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Grove usually has links or further reading, though you might need to use scihub to access it.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I'm sure it's no less informed than the wikipedia articles you also read

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Wikipedia can be edited by literally anyone unless the article is locked. Grove is made by musicologists and people who study their subject for a living.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                So are you going to actually post any evidence or are you going to hide behind locked content

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I didn't make this stuff up. The Smithsonian has articles on this, as does Britannica.
                https://music.si.edu/spotlight/banjos-smithsonian
                https://mcclungmuseum.utk.edu/exhibitions/the-banjo-from-africa-to-america-and-beyond/

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >I didn't make this stuff up
                When I go to "the highly esteemed Grove Music" and look at their research on the Banjo I get two articles, one about how blacks were treated poorly in Europe during the inter-war period and another that's a large reference to instruments where the banjo isn't even named.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Good thing there are non paywalled links.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Why would a highly esteemed music history website have a paywall link to a book crying about racism in Europe for their reference to banjos?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Why wouldn't they, if it's relevant to the history of the instrument? Where's your link?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                can you post an actual source or are you just going to schiz out

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I already posted links to some publicly accessible sites.

                I didn't make this stuff up. The Smithsonian has articles on this, as does Britannica.
                https://music.si.edu/spotlight/banjos-smithsonian
                https://mcclungmuseum.utk.edu/exhibitions/the-banjo-from-africa-to-america-and-beyond/

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Okay as long as you acknowledge your "infallible" first source was retarded wank
                >it's like two sentences on banjos

                You're REALLY scraping the bottom of the barrel, huh?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Are you going to post an argument or just shit your pants?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's actually pathetic you've had hours to find a source and the best you came up with is two sentences

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                That's not two sentences. Can you read?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                You've had two hours to find a source and you found two sentences of flavor text

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                The banjo was created by enslaved Africans and their descendants in the Caribbean and colonial North America. Here, they maintained and perpetuated the tradition within a complex system of slave-labor camps, plantations, and in a variety of rural and urban settings. From the earliest references in the 17th century, and through the 1830s, the banjo was exclusively known as an African-American tradition with a West African heritage. What further distinguishes the banjo is that it did not come from Africa “as-is” as an unaltered tradition. Rather, the banjo’s creation was the result of a blending between West African and European forms. Sharing some similarities with the guitar, the best-documented form of the early banjo includes a drum-like body made out of a gourd (or sometimes a calabash) and a neck that could accommodate 4 strings—three long strings that run the full length of the instrument and one short thumb string that stops about halfway up the side of the neck. The drum-like gourd body and strings of different lengths are uniquely African, while the flat fingerboard and tuning pegs are more commonly associated with European traditions.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The banjo was created by enslaved Africans
                Source? Evidence?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                I was quoting the Smithsonian article
                https://music.si.edu/object/yt_QdCuF3OF15I

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >im quoting something that has no evidence for what it's saying
                I know

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                In Jamaica they would make makeshift guitars like a lute.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Bro, this has one string and no frets. How is this even slightly like a banjo?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                It's not even from the right country, riddle me that

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Its body is made from a gourd.

                >im quoting something that has no evidence for what it's saying
                I know

                Do you ask "source" every time you read a book or go to a museum? The Smithsonian has literally one of the biggest collections of historical musical instruments anywhere IIRC, and their museums are great.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                What's the references, you know like the studies they're referencing to make these claims? Oh there are non? Lol

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you are genuinely curious, ask the curators of the Smithsonian.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                So there's not a single source for any of the claims of blacks making banjos

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Do you count the Smithsonian or Britannica?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Where's their source?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                If you're genuinely curious and not just trying to muddy the waters, ask them.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                kind of weird there's no sources

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Did you email them?

                Cool, but that's completely unlike a banjo, which has always been made from conventional materials like wood or metal.

                Banjos made by professionals would have been made with conventional materials, but I doubt slaves would have been able to make anything like that.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Do you have any evidence of such an early, gourd based Banjo existing in America? All the oldest banjos I can find are made from wood.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Slaves had four string instruments that looked like primitive guitars but nobody at the time gave a shit to really record much about them to determine how they were built or whence they got the ideas to make them because they sounded like shit and they were incapable of a melody more than "a small catch" which would have sounded like this

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Slaves had four string instruments that looked like primitive guitars but nobody at the time gave a shit to really record much about them to determine how they were built or whence they got the ideas to make them because they sounded like shit and they were incapable of a melody more than "a small catch" which would have sounded like this

                >in the early 1700s, Hans Sloane wrote down the only notation of Afro-Atlantic music until maybe the late 18th or early 19th century
                >The wooden neck is mahogany, similar to that in the Haitian Banza

                the “Creoles and Blacks” of the Caribbean created dishes as well as banzas, a Negro instrument, that the Blacks prepare by sawing one of the calabashes or a large gourd lengthwise, to which they attach a neck and sonorous strings made from the filament” of aloe plants

                This instrument, although it produces little harmony, pleases the Blacks, who make of it a kind of mandolin which which they lessen their boredom and accompany their voices in the peace of the night, or else make the comrades dance during joyful parties or during the more lugubrious calendas, funerary rituals followed by revelry. It is the custom of combining the sound of the banza with that more noisy one of the bamboula, a kind of drum that they play with their fingers and knuckles while sitting astride it. This drum is made with from a stick of bamboo covered on both sides with a skin.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                From this we can glean, yes blacks did create instruments, no the instruments were not capable of melody, not they weren't banjos. Modern banjos were made by musicians to create an instrument that looked like black instruments for minstrel shows actually capable of carrying a tune for entertainment purposes and eventually became a staple instrument of the American south

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Most descriptions of pre1840s banjos describe them as such.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Cool, but that's completely unlike a banjo, which has always been made from conventional materials like wood or metal.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                This homosexual is trying so hard to seem straight laced and effete, yet he literally doesn't know what an offbeat is and read "playing on the offbeat" as just playing without rythm.

                This is the standard of discussion here. This is the type of person who sees nothing wrong with posting their drek all day long and misleading other retards.

                Abandon all hope ye who enter.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                sweep your floor you disgusting homosexual

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Try attacking the content of my post. We all know my race is weak to cleanliness, but that's besides the point at hand, and besides, hygiene never diminished the accomplishments of the Greeks nor those of the Franks.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                with your musical knowledge and dirty floors jigaboo, name one things that is definitively black in music theory

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Deal
                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm)
                Clave rhythms are pretty uniquely African.
                Really the way we use percussion in modern music is largely a debt we owe to influence from Africa. The process was very iterative, and didn't just happen in America, but "purely" European music of the medieval period had either
                -No systematic rythm, in the case of church chants, and this was due to actual doctrine regarding how music relates to the divine and what the implications of pulsing rhythms in regards to divinity are.

                -incredibly basic "rhythmic modes" in folk music, like languedoc minstrels and shit.

                It took influence from African and Arabian cultures to develop rhythmic accents and modes to the degree we have now.

                A full elucidation of how is pretty beyond the scope of a LULZ post, but hopefully I turned you onto some ideas that you can follow on your own - that's taking for granted that you actually have a good faith interest in this and you're not just a /misc/refugee with cotton(lol) in your ears.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clave_(rhythm)
                >The clave (/ˈklɑːveJ, kleJv/; Spanish: [ˈklaβe])[1] is a rhythmic pattern used as a tool for temporal organization in Cuban music
                Uhh

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >The clave pattern originated insub-Saharan African music traditions, where it serves essentially the same function as it does in Cuba.

                I know this a real exercise in patience, but try reading at least 2 (two) paragraphs in good faith before coming up with your acidic troll retort next time.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                See the problem with claiming things originated in africa with zero evidence is there's zero evidence for the claims

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Studies_in_African_Music
                Nigga do your own homework next time

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          This. There are standards of performance practice and audience expectations but there's no "wrong" musical style. There are ways of playing music that can be called historically unfaithful, dry, ineffective, un-creative, uninspired, or radical, but none of those are "wrong" strictly speaking.

          If you use critical thinking and study black history, and thus have a gauge on black behavior, blacks claiming that "black music" is "purposefully off beat with improvisation" should send up some red flags.

          Especially considering the roots of Jazz being from minstrel shows when wacky retarded music was played for white people in blackface to act silly for laughs

          Jazz didn't come wholly from minstrel shows.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Jazz didn't come wholly from minstrel shows
            It did, so did the banjo

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Banjos are probably older than that.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                No, the actual banjo was created then, it's black cope to claim that banjos existed before whites created them when there's not a single piece of evidence of this

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Its design has elements of both European and African plucked string instruments, and musicologists and historians look towards West Africa as its distant place of origin.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                okay show evidence of a single banjo existing before whites created them

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Where's the evidence whites created them?

  42. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Boring

  43. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Oh yeah and Jefferson mentions the "banjar" as a popular instrument among slaves in 1780s Virginia.

  44. 7 months ago
    theonemusic dontinfluenceitself

    The sound of Muzak

  45. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Video on evolution of banjos but also the West African downstroke playing that evolved into minstrel and clawhammer style.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Did the US even get slaves from senegal/gambia though? Isn't is a bit of a stretch to claim that US blacks invented an instrument used by borderline troglodytes in the heart of africa that they're not even related to?

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