what was spoken on the british isles before the insular celtic languages


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what was spoken on the british isles before the insular celtic languages

  1. 7 months ago
    Dirk

    Elvish

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Something close to Baltic.

      would have been Adunaic.

      celtic from the west is a myth

      Celtic Y DNA is downstream of Atlantic Beakers, not Eastern late CWC where the Celtic language originates.

      They actually used to speak like Norf but the Celts and Romans and Saxons and Danes and Normans all tried to suppress the voices of the absolute top lads. Luckily the Norf spirit prevailed. End of.

      based
      Norf forever
      simple as

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Finnic, also known as

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Elvish

        Do futa elf exist?

  2. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Esperanto

  3. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Probably another PIE from Beakers. The Farmers before them probably spoke something close to basque.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >another PIE from Beakers

      it's proto-celtic
      the language spread from western, not central Europe

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Beakers got there first iirc

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        celtic from the west is a myth

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          define myth

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            doesnt exist

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              Σκύθης Skúthēs (plural Skúthai Σκύθαι), used by the Ancient Greeks[30]

              truth is usually stranger than fiction because reality isn't constrained by your lack of imagination

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                celtic culture came from austria not the west

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                to austria from the west

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                Are you people just butthurt anglos mad that the language family your isles are known for might originate elswhere?

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                The Anglo fears insular invasion more than anything. And Celtic culture is the only original thing the island has in terms of native culture. Britain cannot simply be a continental appendage!

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >it's proto-celtic
        That's just Iranic.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          t. retard brainwashed by Wikipedia

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        Celtic didn’t come from the west.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          there is no archaeological evidence of an iron-age invasion of Celts into Britain, sorry

          the closest thing you get might be the storied Cimmerians dear to the Welsh, but traditional histories aren't evidence

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >there is no archaeological evidence of an iron-age invasion of Celts into Britain, sorry
            There is genetic evidence of it
            >muh archeology
            Many rcheologists couldn't even recognize 90% replacement of European Hunter-Gatherers in the Neolithic.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              >There is genetic evidence of it
              Care to elaborate? Not him BTW

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              The only genetic influence from post-Beaker Britain prior to the Saxons is a signal from French women.
              There is no genetic evidence for Celtic expansion into the Isles unless those French women (who likely were Celtic speaking Gauls) were teaching Celtic or something.
              It may have simply been a trade language people wanted in on and being more closely tied to the continent they were not as linguistically insular as places farther away like Scandinavia or Baltica.

  4. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Some Bell Beaker language, and before that some kind of cucked farmer language.

  5. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    They actually used to speak like Norf but the Celts and Romans and Saxons and Danes and Normans all tried to suppress the voices of the absolute top lads. Luckily the Norf spirit prevailed. End of.

  6. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    I suspect a language that we might call Belgic that would've also been spoken in some of continental northwest Europe, north of Gauls but south of Germans before their expansion

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I doubt it would have been Belgian, it's the most likely candidate though I guess, there was probably a separate Indo-European language (or language family) in the British Isles.
      And there was probably many more countless Indo-European language families and languages forever lost to time due to existing in prehistory before they were absorbed into others.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        I suspect a language that we might call Belgic that would've also been spoken in some of continental northwest Europe, north of Gauls but south of Germans before their expansion

        Belgian was Gaelic or Proto-Gaelic
        Nearly all of the British Isles spoke it after invasions in the early 1st century BC

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          Asf

  7. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    pronounce scythian with a hard-c and hard-t

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Skytian

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      I just recently found out scythian is not pronounced “skithian” but “sithian.” I’m still going to say skithian.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Σκύθης Skúthēs (plural Skúthai Σκύθαι), used by the Ancient Greeks[30]

      truth is usually stranger than fiction because reality isn't constrained by your lack of imagination

      Isn't it just another morph of "Skadi"?
      And wait, doesn't that means the ancestor of bongs, scandinavians and "scythians" was the same? The goddess of hunting?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        idk

  8. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Armenians

  9. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Phoenician.

    >On the basis of the sample used in this study, nothing remotely close to the full-blown Celtic/Hamito-Semitic [CHS] linguistic type recurs anywhere else in the world. The relatively few languages which are ‘best matches’ – actually rather poor matches – are scattered all over the globe, from the West Coast of North America to the Caucasus and New Guinea. However, the continental average score for Africa is higher than for any other continent, and drops only slightly when the CHS languages Egyptian and Berber are omitted; West Africa scores especially well, and appears especially hospitable to several of the CHS features (adpositional periphrastic, word-initial change, kin terms, inter alia). Conversely, Europe has one of the lowest average scores, and when Welsh and Irish are excluded its score drops far below that of any other continent. Celtic is thus radically out of place in a European landscape, whereas the Hamito-Semitic languages simply intensify a structural trend seen over much of Africa. A weak form of the CHS type, then, would appear to have a natural home in Africa, in particular Northwest Africa. Within Afroasiatic, the highest-scoring languages are on the Mediterranean; scores fall away in every direction, but the Chadic language Hausa (in West Africa) scores much higher than Cushitic Afar (in East Africa). The diachronic evidence, too, argues that the (weak) CHS type is something quite old in Africa: the African and Arabian case studies all show stronger CHS-ness further back in time. All this, in conjunction with the blood-type agreement between the British Isles and Northwest Africa, argues for some sort of prehistoric scenario specifically linking these two regions.
    Orin Gensler, A Typological Evaluation of Celtic/Hamito-Semitic Syntactic Parallels, 1993.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >With his thorough analysis and the sheer wealth of linguistic evidence he has marshalled, Gensler has certainly put the Hamito-Semitic substratum hypothesis back on the map; all authors on the subject will henceforth need to take due account of his arguments.
      Steve Hewitt, The Question of a Hamito-Semitic Substratum in Insular Celtic (2009).

      >In my view the case is closed, the thesis of a Hamito-Semitic substratum underlying Insular Celtic being one of the most reliably established pieces of scientific knowledge there is in any empirical discipline. As Gensler has shown, the substratum really was not simply Hamito-Semitic, which is a huge family including hundreds of languages in Africa and Asia (which is why it is also called Afro-Asiatic or Afrasian), but more specifically Hamito-Semitic of the Mediterranean type, which includes Libyco-Berber, Ancient Egyptian, and Semitic. In order to stress the similarity of the substratum to this particular manifestation of Hamito-Semitic, I sometimes refer to it as Semitidic or simply Semitic.
      Venneman (2001), quoted in Hewitt.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >Supposing that the explanation of certain peculiarities of Insular Celtic are due to substratum influence, one might suppose that the same or a similar substratum has influenced some subgroupings of Afro-Asiatic [Hamito-Semitic] … In short, this scenario would mean that we should consider Western Europe and North Africa as an old coherent area of VSO-character. The influence on the three northern Afro-Asiatic groups, Semitic, Egyptian and Berber is comparable to the influence on the Celtic sub-grouping of Indo-European ... one might suppose that Western Europe and Northern Africa once formed one great contiguous VSO area. This area was split by the incoming Indo-Europeans. The proportion of Indo-Europeans on the continent was so great that any influence of a pre-existing language was blotted out, while the number of pre-Indo-Europeans inhabitants on the British Isles was such that their influence there was felt long after they were gone from memory. This scenario not only explains the congruity in syntax of Welsh and Hebrew but at the same time gives a reason for the lack of lexical correspondences not only between Welsh and Hebrew, but in general between Afro-Asiatic and Insular Celtic.
        Jongeling (2000), quoted in Hewitt.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >The Insular Celtic languages (Brythonic and Goidelic), from their oldest full attestation in the earlier Middle Ages, differ strikingly from the rest of the earlier attested Indo-European languages in syntactic and morphosyntactic structure, with over 20 major differences, going far beyond the languages’ verb-subject-object word order profile. In most of these respects, Insular Celtic agrees structurally with an unrelated and geographically remote language group in north Africa and the Middle East: the subcluster of Afro-Asiatic, comprising Semitic (including Arabic and Hebrew), ancient Egyptian, and Berber. Celticists have been aware of these similarities since 1900, and several of them—John Morris-Jones, Julius Pokorny, and Heinrich Wagner—have advocated some form of Celtic/Hamito-Semitic prehistoric contact by way of explanation, notably a pre-Celtic substratum of north African provenance in the British Isles. Most Celticists either ignore the issue, dismiss the resemblances as coincidence, or focus on deriving certain of the features from pre-existing Indo-European prototypes.
          Orin Gensler, 'Hamito-Semitic Hypothesis', in Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia ed. Koch (2005), page 890.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Every Irishman has the history of Miletius, Heremon, the Phoenicians, Spaniards, Tuatha-de-Danaans, &c., as completely by rote as a German schoolboy has the history of Caesar, Augustus, Tiberius, &c. Therefore, even supposing there may not be a particle of truth in these stories, it is still a remarkable fact, first, that the Irish, like the Indians, should have built up for themselves a system of traditions whose roots descend into the grayest antiquity; and, secondly, be the problem solved as it may, that an entire people should, at the present day, suffer itself to be led by imagined legends and feigned names, and speak of them with as much clearness and confidence as if they had only happened yesterday. If this is not an historical, it is at least an ethnographical and psychological problem; and I believe that nothing similar to it is to be found in any other part of Europe. In Italy there are no living and talked-of traditions of the kingdom of Janus, or the sovereignty of Saturn; nor in Germany or Scandinavia are there to be found, except in books, any sagas of Odin, or of our immigrations from the East. In France, also, Caesar has silenced all the old Druidical and Celtic traditions; yet the ‘Saxons’ have not been able to banish Miletius and his companions from Ireland; for here old primaeval traditions are every where hopping about, as fresh and lively as if they were children gifted with perpetual youth and immortality.
            Johann Georg Kohl, Travels in Ireland, 1843

            The Irish have always remembered where they came from.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              >These towers are almost exclusively peculiar to Ireland, no buildings of a similar character being found throughout the rest of Europe, except in Scotland, where there are said to be two or three of them, which were most probably built by Irish colonists. In the distant East, however, we find edifices of the same construction and of similar dimensions; and the first thing that strikes the traveller, on seeing an Irish pillar-tower, is its resemblance to the minaret of the Mohamedans. There being no authentic records which show the period at which these towers were erected, whilst every thing denotes that they must have been built in very remote antiquity, innumerable theories and hypotheses have been formed respecting them; and although the truth has not yet been elucidated, the falseness and absurdity of many of these theories is very apparent... Popular opinion in Ireland has decided in favour of the latter; and the general tradition, which has descended from the most ancient times to the present day, is that they were built by the Phoenicians... The Phoenicians were the only people of antiquity who visited and ruled Ireland, and by their commerce may have brought this remote isle (a stranger even in Europe,) into connexion with the distant East.
              Also from Kohl.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >With his thorough analysis and the sheer wealth of linguistic evidence he has marshalled, Gensler has certainly put the Hamito-Semitic substratum hypothesis back on the map; all authors on the subject will henceforth need to take due account of his arguments.
      Steve Hewitt, The Question of a Hamito-Semitic Substratum in Insular Celtic (2009).

      >In my view the case is closed, the thesis of a Hamito-Semitic substratum underlying Insular Celtic being one of the most reliably established pieces of scientific knowledge there is in any empirical discipline. As Gensler has shown, the substratum really was not simply Hamito-Semitic, which is a huge family including hundreds of languages in Africa and Asia (which is why it is also called Afro-Asiatic or Afrasian), but more specifically Hamito-Semitic of the Mediterranean type, which includes Libyco-Berber, Ancient Egyptian, and Semitic. In order to stress the similarity of the substratum to this particular manifestation of Hamito-Semitic, I sometimes refer to it as Semitidic or simply Semitic.
      Venneman (2001), quoted in Hewitt.

      >Supposing that the explanation of certain peculiarities of Insular Celtic are due to substratum influence, one might suppose that the same or a similar substratum has influenced some subgroupings of Afro-Asiatic [Hamito-Semitic] … In short, this scenario would mean that we should consider Western Europe and North Africa as an old coherent area of VSO-character. The influence on the three northern Afro-Asiatic groups, Semitic, Egyptian and Berber is comparable to the influence on the Celtic sub-grouping of Indo-European ... one might suppose that Western Europe and Northern Africa once formed one great contiguous VSO area. This area was split by the incoming Indo-Europeans. The proportion of Indo-Europeans on the continent was so great that any influence of a pre-existing language was blotted out, while the number of pre-Indo-Europeans inhabitants on the British Isles was such that their influence there was felt long after they were gone from memory. This scenario not only explains the congruity in syntax of Welsh and Hebrew but at the same time gives a reason for the lack of lexical correspondences not only between Welsh and Hebrew, but in general between Afro-Asiatic and Insular Celtic.
      Jongeling (2000), quoted in Hewitt.

      >The Insular Celtic languages (Brythonic and Goidelic), from their oldest full attestation in the earlier Middle Ages, differ strikingly from the rest of the earlier attested Indo-European languages in syntactic and morphosyntactic structure, with over 20 major differences, going far beyond the languages’ verb-subject-object word order profile. In most of these respects, Insular Celtic agrees structurally with an unrelated and geographically remote language group in north Africa and the Middle East: the subcluster of Afro-Asiatic, comprising Semitic (including Arabic and Hebrew), ancient Egyptian, and Berber. Celticists have been aware of these similarities since 1900, and several of them—John Morris-Jones, Julius Pokorny, and Heinrich Wagner—have advocated some form of Celtic/Hamito-Semitic prehistoric contact by way of explanation, notably a pre-Celtic substratum of north African provenance in the British Isles. Most Celticists either ignore the issue, dismiss the resemblances as coincidence, or focus on deriving certain of the features from pre-existing Indo-European prototypes.
      Orin Gensler, 'Hamito-Semitic Hypothesis', in Celtic Culture: A Historical Encyclopedia ed. Koch (2005), page 890.

  10. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    The Scytho-Phoenician origin of the Irish:

    >The Irish annalists claim a descent from the Scythians, who, they say, are descended from Magog, the son of Japhet, the son of Noah. Keating says: "We will set down here the branching off of the race of Magog, according to the Book of Invasions (of Ireland), which was called the Cin of Drom Snechta." It will be remembered how curiously O'Curry verified Keating's statement as to the authorship of this work, so that his testimony may be received with respect. In the Scripture genealogy, the sons of Magog are not enumerated; but an historian, who cannot be suspected of any design of assisting the Celts to build up a pedigree, has happily supplied the deficiency. Josephus writes: "Magog led out a colony, which from him were named Magoges, but by the Greeks called Scythians." But Keating specifies the precise title of Scythians, from which the Irish Celts are descended. He says they had established themselves in remote ages on the borders of the Red Sea, at the town of Chiroth; that they were expelled by the grandson of that Pharaoh who had been drowned in the Red Sea; and that he persecuted them because they had supplied the Israelites with provisions. This statement is singularly and most conclusively confirmed by Rabbi Simon, who wrote two hundred years before the birth of Christ. He says that certain Canaanites near the Red Sea gave provisions to the Israelites; "and because these Canaan ships gave Israel of their provisions, God would not destroy their ships, but with an east wind carried them down the Red Sea." This colony settled in what was subsequently called Phoenicia; and here again our traditions are confirmed ab extra, for Herodotus says: "The Phoenicians anciently dwelt, as they allege, on the borders of the Red Sea."
    Margaret Anne Cusack, An Illustrated History of Ireland, 1868.

  11. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >It is from a source, however, comparatively modern — the geographical poem of Festus Avienus — that our most valuable insight into the fortunes of ancient Ireland are derived. In the separate expeditions undertaken by Hanno and Himilco beyond the Straits, while the former sailed in a southern direction, the latter, shaping his course to the north, along the shores of Spain (the old track of Phoenician voyagers between Cades and Gallicia), stretched from thence across the ocean to the Oestrumnides, or Tin Isles. Of this expedition, a record, or journal, such as Hanno has left of his Periplus, was deposited by Himilco in one of the temples of Carthage, and still existed in the fourth century, when Avienus, having access, as he mentions, to the Punic records, collected from thence those curious details which he has preserved in his Iambics, and which furnish by far the most interesting glimpse derived from antiquity of the early condition of Ireland. The Oestrumnides, or Scilly Islands, are described, in this sketch, as two days’ sail from the larger Sacred Island, inhabited by the Hiberni; and in the neighbourhood of the latter, the island of the Albiones, it is said, extends. Though the description be somewhat obscure, yet the Celtic names of the two great islands, and their relative position, as well to the Oestrumnides as to each other, leave no doubt as to Britain and Ireland being the two places designated. The commerce carried on by the people of Gades with the Tin Isles is expressly mentioned by the writer, who adds, that “ (he husbandmen, or planters, of Carthage, as well as her common people, went to those isles,” — thus implying that she had established there a permanent colony.
    Thomas Moore, The History of Ireland (London, 1835), 7-8.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      >In this short but circumstantial sketch, the features of Ireland are brought into view far more prominently than those of Britain. After a description of the hide-covered boats, or currachs, in which the inhabitants of those islands navigated their seas, the populousness of the isle of the Hiberni, and the turfy nature of its soil, are commemorated. But the remarkable fact contained in this record — itself of such antiquity— is, that Ireland was then, and had been from ancient times, designated ‘‘The Sacred Island.” This reference of the date of her early renown to limes so remote as to be in Himilco’s days ancient, carries the imagination, it must be owned, far back into the depths of the past, yet hardly further than the steps of history will be found to accompany its flight. Respecting the period of the expeditions of Hanno and Himilco, the opinions of the learned have differed; and by some their date is referred to so distant a period as 1000 years before the Christian era. Combining the statement, however, of Pliny, that they took place during the most flourishing epoch of Carthage, with the internal evidence furnished by Hanno’s own Periplus, there is no doubt that it was, at least, before the reign of Alexander the Great that these two memorable expeditions occurred.
      8-9.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >In the days of Herodotus, by whom first vaguely, and without any certain knowledge of a sea beyond the Straits, the importation of tin from the Cassiterides is mentioned, it is hardly too much to assume that the Phoenicians had, for some time, formed a settlement in these islands. That they must have had a factory here is pretty generally conceded: but a people, whose system it was to make colonisation the basis of their power, were assuredly not likely to have left a position of such immense commercial importance unoccupied; and the policy, first taught by them to trading nations, of extending the circle of their customers by means of colonies, was shown in the barter which they thenceforward maintained with the British Isles — exchanging their own earthen vessels, salt, and brass, for the tin, lead, and skins produced in these islands.
        10.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          >There are grounds for believing, also, that to the Phoenicians, and consequently to the Greeks, Ireland was known, if not earlier, at least more intimately, than Britain. We have seen that, in the ancient poem called the Argonautics, supposed to have been written in the time of the Pisistratidae, and by a poet instructed, it is thought, from Phoenician sources, Ierne alone is mentioned, without any allusion whatever to Britain; and in the record preserved of Himilco’s voyage to these seas, while the characteristic features of the Sacred Isle are dwelt upon with some minuteness, a single line alone is allotted to the mere geographical statement that in her neighbourhood the Island of the Albiones extends.
          >Another proof of the earlier intimacy which the Phoenician Spaniards maintained with Ireland, is to be found in the Geography of Ptolemy, who wrote at the beginning of the second century, and derived chiefly, it is known, from Phoenician authorities, his information respecting these islands.
          10-11.

          • 7 months ago
            Anonymous

            >For while, in describing the places of Britain, more especially of its northern portion, this geographer has fallen into the grossest errors,— placing the Mull of Galloway to the north, and Cape Orcas or Dunsby Head to the east, — in his account of lreland, on the contrary, situated as she then was beyond the bounds of the Roman empire, and hardly know n within that circle to exist, he has shown considerable accuracy, not only with respect to the shores and promontories of the island, but in most of his details of the interior of the country, its various cities and tribes, lakes, rivers, and boundaries. It is worthy of remark, too, that while of the towns and places of Britain he has in general given but the new Roman names, those of Ireland still bear on his map their old Celtic titles: the city Hybernis still tells a tale of far distant times, and the Sacred Promontory, now known by the name of Carnsore Point, transports our imagination hack to the old Phoenician days.
            11-12.

            • 7 months ago
              Anonymous

              >When it is considered that Ptolemy, or rather Marinus of Tyre, the writer whose steps he implicitly followed, is believed to have founded his geographical descriptions and maps on an ancient Tyrian Allas, this want of aboriginal names for the cities and places of Britain, and their predominance in the map of Ireland, prove how much more anciently and intimately the latter island must have been known to the geographers of Tyre than the former. But even this proof of her earlier intercourse with that people and their colonies, and her proportionate advance in the career of civilisation, is hardly more strong than the remarkable testimony, to the same effect, of Tacitus, by whom it is declared that, at the time when he wrote, “the waters and harbours of Ireland were belter known, through the resort of commerce and navigators, than those of Britain" (Melius aditus portusque per commercia et negotiatores cogniti).
              12-13.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >From this it appears that though scarce heard of, till within a short period, by the Romans, and almost as strange to the Greeks, this sequestered island was yet in possession of channels of intercourse distinct from either; and that, while the Britons, shut out from the continent by their Roman masters, saw themselves deprived of all that profitable intercourse which they had long maintained with the Veneli, and other people of Gaul, Ireland still continued to cultivate her old relations with Spain, and saw her barks venturing on their accustomed course, between the Celtic Cape and the Sacred Promontory, as they had done for centuries before.
                >Combining these proofs of an early intercourse between Ireland and the Phoenician Spaniards, with the title of Sacred bestowed on this island in far distant limes, it can hardly lie doubted, that her pre-eminence in religion was the chief source of this distinction; and that she was, in all probability, the chosen depository of the Phoenician worship in these seas. By the epithet Sacred, applied to a people among the ancients, it was always understood that there belonged to them some religious or sacerdotal character. In this sense it was, that the Argipaei, mentioned by Herodotus, were called a Holy People; and the claim of Ireland to such a designation was doubtless of the same venerable kind.
                13.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >It has been conjectured, not without strong grounds of probability, that it was a part of the policy of the Phoenician priesthood to send out missions to their distant colonies, on much the same plan as that of the Jesuits at Paraguay, for the purpose of extending their spiritual power over those regions of which their merchants had possessed themselves; and it is by no means unlikely, that the title of Sacred, bestowed thus early upon Ireland, may have arisen from her having been chosen as the chief seat of such a mission. The fact, that there existed an island devoted to religions rites in these regions, has been intimated by almost all the Greek writers who have treated of them; and the position, in every instance, assigned to it, answers perfectly to that of Ireland. By Plutarch it is staled that an envoy despatched by the emperor Claudius to explore the British Isles, found, on an island, in the neighbourhood of Britain, an order of Magi accounted holy by the people: and, in another work of the same writer, some fabulous wonders are related of an island lying to the west of Britain, the inhabitants of which were a holy race; while, at the same time, a connection between them and Carthage is indistinctly intimated.
                13-14.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >Diodorus Siculus also gives an account, on the authority of some ancient writers, of an island situated, as he says, “over against Gaul;” and which from its position and size, the rites of sun-worship practised by its people, their Round Temple, their study of the heavens, and the skill of their musicians on the harp, might sufficiently warrant the assumption that Ireland was the island so characterised, did not the too fanciful colouring of the whole description rather disqualify it for the purposes of sober testimony, and incline us to rank this Hyperborean island of the historian along with his Isle of Panchaea and other such fabulous marvels. At the same time, nothing is more probable, than that the vague glimmering knowledge which the Greeks caught up occasionally from Phoenician merchants, respecting the sun-worship and science of the Sacred Island, lerne, should have furnished the writers referred to by Diodorus with the ground-work of this fanciful tale. The size attributed to the island, which is described as “not less than Sicily,” is, among the many coincidences with Ireland, not the least striking; and, with respect to its position and name, we find, that so late as the time of the poet Claudian, the Scoti or Irish were represented as in the immediate neighbourhood of the Hyperborean seas.
                14-15.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >But the fragment of antiquity the most valuable for the light it throws upon this point, is that extracted from an ancient geographer, by Strabo, in which we are told of an island near Britain, where sacrifices were offered to Ceres and Proserpine, in the same manner as at Samothrace. From time immemorial, the small isle of Samothrace, in the Aegean, was a favourite seat of idolatrous worship and resort; and on its shores the Cabiric Mysteries had been established by the Phoenicians. These rites were dedicated to the deities who presided over navigation; and it was usual for mariners to stop at this island on their way to distant seas, and offer up a prayer at its shrines for propitious winds and skies. From the words of the geographer quoted by Strabo, combined with all the other evidence adduced, it may be inferred that Ireland had become the Samothrace, as it were, of the western seas ; that thither the ancient Cabiric gods had been wafted by the early colonisers of that region; and that, as the mariner used on his departure from the Mediterranean to breathe a prayer in the Sacred Island of the East, so in the seas beyond the Pillars, he found another Sacred Island, where to the same tutelary deities of the deep his vows and thanks were offered on his safe arrival.
                15-16.

              • 7 months ago
                Anonymous

                >In addition to all this confluence of evidence from high authentic sources, we have likewise the traditions of Ireland herself, — pointing invariably in the same eastern direction, — her monuments, the names of her promontories and hills, her old usages and rites, all bearing indelibly the same oriental stamp. In speaking of traditions, I mean not the fables which may in later times have been grafted upon them ; but those old, popular remembrances, transmitted from age to age, which, in all countries, furnish a track for the first foot- steps of history, when cleared of those idle weeds of fiction by which in time they become overgrown. According to Strabo, it was chiefly from Gades that the Phoenicians fitted out their expeditions to the British Isles; but the traditions of the Irish look to Gallicia as the quarter from whence their colonies sailed, and vestiges of intercourse between that part of Spain and Ireland may be traced far into past times. The traditionary history of the latter country gives an account of an ancient Pharos, or light-house, erected in the neighbourhood of the port now called Corunna, for the use of navigators on their passage between that coast and Ireland; and the names of the tribes marked by Ptolemy, as inhabiting those parts of the Irish coast facing Gallicia, prove that there was a large infusion of Spanish population from that quarter.
                16-17.

  12. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Nobody gives a fuck about bongs retard.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      You don't even have to like them to know that isn't true. The British Empire was the largest in history, and England still has enormous soft power via its literature and pop culture.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        UK is a shithole and you know it. History proves that it always was.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          I'm not British nor predisposed for national reasons to like the British, and life in much of the UK is indeed very bleak, but it's delusional to pretend that Britain was not one of the world's major cultural powers. Nobody who sincerely cares about literature denies that English literature is one of the finest in the world. English painting, architecture and classical music are highly underrated too. Food and cinema are the only things the Bongs never seem to have gotten the hang of.

  13. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    HINDI

  14. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Prolly spoke Arabic as the Bongs do today.

  15. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >british isles

  16. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    extremely based info dump itt

    bumping

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      Thanks!

  17. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    Pictish. I don't think it was a Brittonic language. It may have been pre-Indo-European like Estruscan or Basque.

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      The consensus seems to be that Pictish was P-Celtic but tbh I'm not satisfied in my understanding to why early medieval writers were adamant it was a separate language if that were the case. The only thing I can think of is that it had the sounds and vocabulary of Brythonic but without the unique grammar and syntax of the Insular Celtic languages. In other words that it was a purer, more Gaulish and continental strain of Celtic.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >seems to be that Pictish was P-Celtic but
        Theres no evidence to directly support that. Not a single P-Celtic word can positively be identified in pictland but many Gaelic words can be.
        As far as 500ad Gaelic was spoken in eastern pictland.

        • 7 months ago
          Anonymous

          asf

  18. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >british isles
    It's Britain AND Ireland thanks.

  19. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Mediterranean societies are traditionally ones in which the highest-ranking person is the one with the most skin in the game. And if anything characterizes today’s America, it is economic risk taking, thanks to a happy transfer of martial values to business and commerce in Anglo-Saxon society - remarkably, traditional Arabic culture also puts the same emphasis on the honor of economic risk-taking. But history shows that there were—and still are—societies in which the intellectual was at the top. The Hindus held the Brahman to be first in the hierarchy, the Celts had the druids (so do their Druze possible-cousins), the Egyptians had their scribes, and the Chinese had for a relatively brief time the scholar.

    What did Nassim Taleb mean by this?

  20. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    • 7 months ago
      Anonymous

      [...]

      >Mediterranean societies are traditionally ones in which the highest-ranking person is the one with the most skin in the game. And if anything characterizes today’s America, it is economic risk taking, thanks to a happy transfer of martial values to business and commerce in Anglo-Saxon society - remarkably, traditional Arabic culture also puts the same emphasis on the honor of economic risk-taking. But history shows that there were—and still are—societies in which the intellectual was at the top. The Hindus held the Brahman to be first in the hierarchy, the Celts had the druids (so do their Druze possible-cousins), the Egyptians had their scribes, and the Chinese had for a relatively brief time the scholar.

      What did Nassim Taleb mean by this?

      >fragile MENA wewuzzing human sacrifice burning, oak grove tending, sacred lore memorizing Brits

      I'll take this moment to remind the board that Gaelic and Welsh have many, many similarities to ancient Hebrew and in fact entire turns of phrase are identical.

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        I'm confused as to what you're upset about. Isn't Taleb saying something that tallies with that?

      • 7 months ago
        Anonymous

        >and in fact entire turns of phrase are identical.
        Post them then

  21. 7 months ago
    Anonymous

    finnish

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