What physical body you have determines your social role. Claiming physical dysphoria is not a product of social gender roles and is somehow separable is ridiculous.
What physical body you have determines your social role.
What physical body you have determines your social role. Claiming physical dysphoria is not a product of social gender roles and is somehow separable is ridiculous.
>Claiming physical dysphoria is not a product of social gender roles and is somehow separable is ridiculous.
Nobod says that, except hons who tries hard to cope.
Of course being trans is the result of a social expectations of gender and gender roles... but so is for cis people
people say it ALL THE TIME
This is wrong. Modern brain scan research is able to directly show that gender identity is an innate, unchangeable property of human brains, and that trans people have a gender identity that does not match their biochemistry, body and socially assigned gender, and that this neurological gender incongruence is what causes dysphoria.
This is why brain scan evidence also shows that HRT directly treats the structural brain abnormalities that trans people have in the self image processing regions of the brain in proportion to how much it reduces trans people's dysphoria.
Trans people want to fit into different social gender roles because they are trans, they are not trans because they want to fit different social gender roles.
>Modern brain scan research
is phrenology
>https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/29/5/2084/5062356
>https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/30/5/2897/5669907
>https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/ejn.14420
From the third study:
>Transgender persons experience incongruence between their gender identity and birth-assigned sex. The resulting gender dysphoria (GD), is frequently treated with cross-sex hormones. However, very little is known about how this treatment affects the brain of individuals with GD, nor do we know the neurobiology of GD. We recently suggested that disconnection of fronto-parietal networks involved in own-body self-referential processing could be a plausible mechanism, and that the anatomical correlate could be a thickening of the mesial prefrontal and precuneus cortex, which is unrelated to sex. Here, we investigate how cross-sex hormone treatment affects cerebral tissue in persons with GD, and how potential changes are related to self-body perception.
>significant Cth decreases were observed in the mesial prefrontal and parietal cortices, in both TrM and TrW (vs. controls) – regions showing greater pre-treatment Cth than in controls. The own body – self congruence ratings increased with treatment, and correlated with a left parietal cortical thinning. These data confirm our hypothesis that GD may be associated with specific anatomical features in own-body/self-processing circuits that reverse to the pattern of cisgender controls after cross-sex hormone treatment
There are now several studies in the same vein showing that all pre-hrt trans people, regardless of direction of transition or sexual orientation, share a pattern of structural brain differences in the self image processing regions of the brain that is identifiable on brain scans compared to those regions in cis people. Further, HRT shrinks those structural brain differences in trans people, making their brains more like those of cis people in proportion to how much dysphoria is reduced.
i aint reading allat
I didn't read any of that but I guarantee you're making the same mistake that is always made with le brain scan. You're taking people who are trans and scanning their brains and their brains show they are trans. So what? If you take cab drivers they have brains that are identifiable too because how you experience the world changes your brain. It's literally the same as saying depression is a chemical imbalance in the brain or something, the real question isn't is transness observable, it's why are people trans
>I didn't read any of that
And I'll be returning the favour until (You) do and actually engage with the evidence.
>assigned
>extremist political rhetoric in a supposedly scientific study.
Ideologues should not be writing research papers, your sex is an innate biological characteristic, it is not 'assigned'.
Define sex in a way that includes everyone
For anyone interested in more studies on this topic, there's a long thread compiling and discussing them here
.
imagine thinking you brain makes you a woman
Modern brain scan research does not show that, you don't understand what it shows because interpreting brain scans is outside of your skill set
I think you stupid anon.
only women live in a world so far-removed from reality that they can come up with deranged takes like picrel. humans that live in reality don't come up with takes like that in the first place. we call those "luxury diseases", they have no problems in life so they invent new ones.
Supports the idea that mtfs are women and ftms are women tbqh.
so in other words it's not deranged but these "luxury diseases" are valid as per the current progress of humanity and its social constructs. it's not like we're going to devolve to before the industrial revolution
Show me your genitals, cissy! I need to know if you're born a man or a woman!
>physical body you have determines your social role
even if this was unequivocally true - and it isn't - it would be a bad thing.
>Claiming physical dysphoria is not a product of social gender roles and is somehow separable is ridiculous.
it is, cope with it
tranny here, I agree. I don't think I would've transitioned without gender related trauma, and that's OK. It's unjust that people can hurt us so badly that we need to do things like transition, but that's life. If someone hit you with their car you can get mad about it but it's still better for you to get treatment for your broken bones and ptsd
>trans people dont exist and arent materially different from their birth sex and dont have physical dysphoria b-BECAUSE I SAID SO
pretty sure id still have dysphoria without society, probably because i have isolated myself from society when i was repressing and i still hated my body
Your the sane one here
you have no idea how you would feel
sexual dimorphism will still be here even without gender
but the idea that males are violent and bad is a product of social roles
cool but that didnt make me a troon
no that's a product of males being males
bio essentialism goes against radical feminism get a grip
okay but counterpoint misandry is funny and im honestly more of an endo essentialist (val was right about most things but her take on chromosomal determinism was pseudoscientific drivel)
tawts kinda real..
no, its a product of society trying to elevate women socially to encourage them to breed
I'm a tranny who did the same and I think this is BS. I isolated myself because I'm sensitive and I wasn't given the right environment to thrive in, or people they made me feel safe and loved. I was interested in being female from a young age but it could've easily gone some other way with a different life. I think it's fine that diff people have diff experiences but the idea that you know you're biologically trans because you had some gender issues and you isolated yourself is a bit much
So you think i got psyopped into transgender ideology by the internet or something? I was pretty transphobic, probably to cope. I had gender issues from a really young age and had a phase of trying to come out as trans in my early teens but i got traumatised into repressing those memories. It doesn't make any sense that some kinda social force made me transition.
If we aren't biologically trans then why the hell do we feel such an intense need for hormones and surgery and passing? Why do I have bottom dysphoria even when I can be semi-stealth? Gender identity and what social role and body we expect has to be an intrinsic thing, it really should be informed by your experience as a transsexual.
Not all trans people are trans by nature. Some are escaping gender roles / homophobia like the person you've responded to. They don't understand you, because they aren't you, but you're perfectly fine the way you are. I wish they didn't harass the likes of you. I'm sorry for what they went through, but it doesn't warrant harassing people who have inborn sex dysphoria.
People can be influenced in very subtle ways without anyone intending to influence you at all, and this can easily develop into pathology. Also you might feel a certain way at one point in your life but later on those feelings take on new forms and try to fit into how your personality keeps changing. I don't know why I had tranny thoughts when I was young, I think it was some kind of fetish, but I know as I got older the tranny thoughts came back and continued and got worse until psychosis and transition because I was failing in my life. I have body dysmorphia, internalized homophobia and sexual trauma and bpd / hpd which made me desperate for the attention and validation women get for their bodies. I am 100% certain if my life had gone differently I wouldn't have transitioned
You don't sound like you have a good grasp of yourself or reality, I mean honestly we sound similar in how being trans has effected our mental health but you sound like a brainrotted caricature when you short-circuit to presuming your early childhood dysphoria was a fetish.
Moving through the trans community I keep finding people who have no desire to pass, and seem to have no sex dysphoria at all, and these people are often the ones in charge of the public resources and community. It's incredibly confusing and alienating.
I don't see how anyone can disagree with this if they humanise trans people even a little. The way we are depicted is usually libelous.
you sound like a brainrotted caricature when you short-circuit to presuming your early childhood dysphoria was a fetish.
I'm presuming that because it was arousing and it gave me boners?
>
I don't think getting a boner whilst crossdressing suddenly makes all your feelings invalid no, sexuality is very pathologized but its an integrated part of your psyche, representing other things.
I didn't say anything about valid or invalid. I just said I don't believe I was destined to be trans because I have an innately trans brain or whatever. It's fine to transition and not have an innately trans brain. I did
The more I read shit like this the more I'm convinced that what was done to Bailey and it's consequences has been a disaster for trans people. The typology is true and the vehement denial of it has immensely harmed trans people and their ability to understand themselves, especially those of the AGP etiology, ironically.
I don't consider myself agp, but I may have been early in life. I don't remember my fantasies well enough tbh, I had them before puberty. I didn't see any Bailey Jay or trans stuff until way later in life, I was aware of trans porn but I thought it was disgusting because at the time it usually was
AGP is an innate sexuality, it has nothing to do with porn or anything like that, if you had AGP fantasies as a child and then later transitioned that is textbook AGP.
I don't think innate sexuality exists. I haven't been what I'd consider agp for almost two decades.
Also I transitioned because I felt ugly and didn't want to go bald and I had nothing going on in my life anyway, not for sexual kicks.
Outright autogynephilic arousal is known to diminish post transition, that doesn't mean AGP went away
It didn't diminish post transition, it diminished before I was like 12 before puberty and never came back.
Was it substituted by any other sexual orientation ?
Non gender specific abstract masochism, like being cucked
im hsts transexual and my parents have never accpeted me yes we exist
The modern brain scan research I linked above directly refutes Blanchardism. All trans people, regardless of direction of transition of sexual orientation have the same underlying neurology of being trans, and the brains of androphilic trans women are not meaningfully more feminized pre-transition than those of cis gay men. 'Brain gender', to the extent it exists, should be thought of more as a secondary sexual characteristic lile breasts or a beard than a *cause* of being trans. The only region of a trans person's brain that must be differently gendered prior to hrt is gender identity. HRT itself will make the rest of the brain match the gender identity (this is why cross sex HRT directly reduces dysphoria in trans people).
You are making extrapolations which are not actually in the research you are citing, which is still very rudimentary and not sufficient to take conclusions from.
>but it's incompatible with another notion that is ALSO still very rudimentary
No, I am not. If you think I am, feel free to explicitly specify where you think I'm not summarizing the research findings rather than making vague accusations with no evidence.
There is no way to do that. The whole problem in the first place is that gender identity is both innate and fixed, so when it doesn't match the brain, body and social treatment we have to change the latter to match the former.
the research is bullshit
Sounds to me like we just treat your trans brain like you would an unwanted pair of tits or a beard. Or is it suddenly different than a secondary sex characteristic?
Sounds like we should just be detransing that small portion of the brain instead of transing the rest of the brain and body.
I hope this is true good science because it gives a solid path to answering the troon question.
How do we detrans this small portion of the brain then?
With a melon baller
I'm not earlly onset or trutrans by any means, but I definitely would stop repping if social roles weren't a thing
Non sequitur. Just because your physical body determines your social role does not mean that physical dysphoria is caused by social expectations. There was literally a post yesterday by someone who wanted a female body but did not want the social role associated with it.
Also I had a ton of other kinks that went away around puberty
>Claiming physical dysphoria is not a product of social gender roles and is somehow separable is ridiculous
wrong
you make this thread every day and you're just as wrong every time. it's not about gender roles at all -- I want to have a feminine body because that's comfortable independent of anything else
/thread
you want to have a female body because females are treated better
Factually incorrect, but go off king.
why cant we mutilate womens genitals?
I'm not saying it's incorrect that women are treated better (they are in some circumstances, and worse in others, that's how everything is really), I'm saying it's incorrect that that's the reason I want a female body.
I just want one.
It came to me in a dream when I was like 5.
so you admit it is correct that females are treated better?
they are in some circumstances, and worse in others, that's how everything is really
but on average, say for a low status person, is life harder being a very ugly male or a very ugly female?
wrong
being treated as a female is kind of weird, but having a female body is comfortable in and of itself. Having breasts, even small ones that only I notice, is really comfy
>What physical body you have determines your social role.
so ur saying like physical body -> social role
>Claiming physical dysphoria is not a product of social gender roles and is somehow separable is ridiculous.
but here aren't u saying like social gender roles -> physical dysphoria... and i mean ofc they aren't seperable that's why ppl distinguish between physical dysphoria and social dysphoria.
In part, but if there were no social gender roles I'd still want a body of a biological female.