What is the origin of the Illyrians and who are their modern descendants?

What is the origin of the Illyrians and who are their modern descendants?

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  1. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    In red and black I dress.
    Eagle on my chest
    I'm proud to be:

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      People are going to say Albanians but I'm not so sure about that

      Are you sure?

  2. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    People are going to say Albanians but I'm not so sure about that

  3. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Albos and Monkidonians and the swarthiest of Serbs

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Macedonians are Slavs though?

  4. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Or do you mean ancient Macedonians? They were Greek not Illyrian

  5. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    >What is the origin of the Illyrians
    Migrating Celts
    >who are their modern descendants
    No one. Slavs wiped them out

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Illyrians can't be Celts! They didn't speak Celtic. They spoke their own language. And their pottery is different?

  6. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    There is a hypothesis that Albanian is derived from Illyrian but it is unknown, where Albanian came from is unknown too.
    Illyrians were Indo-European culture emerged around Dalmatia, at one point this culture spanned around Soga (modern day Slovenia) to Paeonia (modern day FYROM).
    Surprisingly they seemed to avoid both Hellenisation and Latinisation until Slavs came and replaced them.
    There is a hypothesis that Albanian language came from Illyrian, yes, but it is impossible to know since we almost dont know anything about Illyrians.
    But if Albanian language isnt Illyrian, then where did it came from?

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Could Albanian be Daco-Thracian? E-V13 haplogroup language

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Albanians are probably half human fish monsters like in the shadow over innsmouth.

  7. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    bumo

  8. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Pelsagian - the origin
    Albanian - the descendant

  9. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    If it's really Albanians then I'm glad the Balkans got thoroughly conquered by Slavs.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      WHY do you hate Albanians WHY WHY WHY

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        What the hell is there to like

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          The kindness and intelligence

  10. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Albanians are not Illyrians. But they are the closest we have to Illyrians. Since the Dalmatians got Slav'd into oblivion.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Albanians are Illyrians

  11. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    I mean obviously Albanians maybe mixed with Thracians

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      And why is it obvious?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        They come from mountains, had pastoralist lifestyle and clearly were indigenous to the area since longer time but they are not Slavic, Greek or Latin. Typical Occam Razor use

  12. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Phoenicians were really a great empire at the time, it's incredible how such an empire that expanded so much left such little written records and such a poor artistic legacy.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      the phoenician alphabet is not a bad contribution

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      They were not an empire, Carthage was.

  13. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    As said by another anon, it’s simply Occam’s Razor here. Albanians are not Slav, nor are they Greek. Their language is not derived from those two either. Since they are mountain people who most likely ran to the mountains to escape the Slavic invasions, it is simply most likely they are descendents of the Illyrians, as any other explanation would be much more complex and convoluted than this. It’s possible they have Thracian ancestry but Illyrians we’re much closer.

  14. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    J2b balkaners

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      So Cetina culture?

  15. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    the albanians claim that they are, but their actual origins are unknown. the illyrian lands were settled by serbs and croats, so i guess they'd be the truest descendants

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      But Croats and Serbs are Slavs

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        yeah, but they live in illyrian lands. croats settled land from istria to cetina and west bosnia, serbs from cetina to slightly east of morava. that's basically the entire illyrian range, thracians were to the east, italians to the west, germans to the north and greeks to the south. they are slavs, that's not disputed

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Hey moron
        Most people in lands conquered by migrators are the descendants of the original natives who assimilated into their conqueror’s culture

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          The Balkans were heavily depopulated prior to the Slavic migration. That being said my money is on the dinaroids being the descendants of the Illyrians.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Illyrian skeletons don't look like that though

  16. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    They were the 1st IE people in the Balkans. Some say they were the ancestors of Albanians, others say they were related to Slavs.
    Needless ro say, they didn't amount to much. They ended the bloodlines of pre-IE inhabitants, they lived in villages, had tribal kings, had no writing system, and never united. They were conquered by the Roman Empire, but their descendants became emperors in 3rd and 4th century.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >They ended the bloodlines of pre-IE inhabitants
      Did they really though? Most Illyrians seem to have been J2b and I don't think Cetina culture (Illyrians) were the first IE people in the Balkans. Not close to it actually.

  17. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    J2b is very likely to be found in a Moldavan Suvorovo kurgan, if we are to trust Reich. I have no clue whether Cetina is directly related to this wave, if south-western Yamnaya had some J2b or if it's a founder effect emerging once Yamnaya already entered the Balkans.

    If we are to assume Cetina is Illyrian then probably one of the latter two options, because even though Illyrian is scantly attested it doesn't seem to be from an archaic branch (like Anatolian).

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      It could have been picked up by early IE groups in the Balkans but the J2b MRCA probably wasn't from the steppe and yeah Cetina is often associated with Illyrians

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        I don't see why it couldn't be from the north caucasus and mediated by the steppe, in fact that seems most likely as these Suvorovo samples appear to be very high steppe if we are to read in between the lines of Nikitin's lecture.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Maybe you're right

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          What about E-V13?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I don't think there are any rumors/info of it being in eneolithic steppe samples. Its background is easier to figure out anyway because E-V13 is derived from an EEF lineage.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            But how did it become big?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Some Yamnaya group picked it up in the Balkans and at least one of them became very lucky.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            And that person became an important part of proto-Thracians? Or Illyrians?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            It's in Thracians yes, it barely shows up in any of the BA or IA samples of modern croatia (I only see it in 1 of 70 or so).
            To be fair, we only early iron age samples so far of likely Thracian speakers so maybe the situation is more complex before that.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Maybe Seuthes the third was E-V13

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Am I reading it right

            >MRCA lived in 4900BC
            >starts slow
            >expansion starts getting real in the alte bronze age
            >early iron age is also good
            >huge dip around year 0 for some reason but recovery was quick

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Something like that, I'm not exactly sure how to interpret all of it beyond branching seemingly spiking in eras of increased mobility (EBA, early Iron Age, migration era).

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Do you have similar graphs for any other haplogroups?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I do not, I took this from someone else.
            You can maybe get a sense of it for others using ftdna's time tree tool but it wouldn't be presented the same.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I have looked at ftdna Discovery and it's very useful and it also has the country % and ancient connections which I like

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Maybe you're right

      While exact origin of Albanians is unknown i believe proto albanians lived in Sar mountain area (North-western Macedonia/southern Kosovo) and expanded by assimilating adriatic illyrian tribes and latinised peoples. Slavic migrations played a part as well. About origin of proto albanians either dardanian/thracian tribe or messapic link holds most credibility.

      The main haplogroup in Albania is E-V13 which is Thracian. J2-L283 is less common and that is the Illyrian haplogroup.

  18. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    Turkroach post, do NOT give it attention

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Communist cuck post, no rebuttal, just seethe

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Turkroach seethe response, estrogen turk femboy angry fit

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >reeeeeee
          Back to Caucaseddit

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Turk bussy femboy is upset

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            What’s wrong with femboys?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Nothing everybody loves a good Turk femboy

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      smrds are not human.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        what are smrds

  19. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    I ran out of space.

    During this time, armenians even migrated all the way west to Constantinople and Thrace! That ought to show you how easily albanian could also be brought to greece and southern Italy. Since now we see we have armenian as a precedent. The armenians migrated with the coming of the turks. So we see a relationship between the migrating turks and the movement of armenian along with the appearance of albanian.

    There is another element here- the armenians migrated to areas that were heavily populated by Greeks. We see the same story with the appearance of Albanians. Bari, was a heavily greek city. Sicily, those villages in formerly heavily greek regions. Same in the rest of southern Italy. In fact Corinth had become albanian as well, and big neighborhoods in Athens were albanian. Maybe the entire town. So armenian did the same thing, it left the caucasus to find a home in greek areas and assimilated the local greeks. This is how Taurus Armenia was created.

    My opinion is that it is not a stretch to consider that maybe albanian also followed these patterns. I think it comes from the caucasus.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      ypuvhave to prove evidence of an Albanian speaking population in Caucasia

  20. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Hey, GreekSeethe poster here. I forgot to mention that i’m trans (MtF). Also i’m the Gervaisposter and the stalingrad spammer

  21. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    [...]

    >blablabla
    genetics prove albanians are the balkanites with the most iron age balkan admixture, theyre the closest living people to illyrians, that they have very little foreign dna (cause theyre inbred) including slavic (croats are slavic as frick, serbs are hapas, greeks have 10% slavic admixture etc)
    there's also no proof churka albanians spoke the same language as albos, there's no proof of a migration or relocation either, no proof of turks or whatever moving there
    going off by names is like if someone said brits are also albos, because one of its poetic names is Albania (cause of the cliffs of dover)
    also illyrians moved to southern italy see

    There is a hypothesis that Albanian is derived from Illyrian but it is unknown, where Albanian came from is unknown too.
    Illyrians were Indo-European culture emerged around Dalmatia, at one point this culture spanned around Soga (modern day Slovenia) to Paeonia (modern day FYROM).
    Surprisingly they seemed to avoid both Hellenisation and Latinisation until Slavs came and replaced them.
    There is a hypothesis that Albanian language came from Illyrian, yes, but it is impossible to know since we almost dont know anything about Illyrians.
    But if Albanian language isnt Illyrian, then where did it came from?

    , messapic people were illyrians
    TLDR occams razor

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Your post is not occams razor and requires reality-bending. Albanian in south italy is very similar to balkan albanian, the languages did not seperate thousands of years ago when the Illyrians were in the region.

      DNA results are contradictory and should not be considered, as they do not prove anything. Populations are assimilated, not replaced. There is also the fact that you probably do not have a legitimate source for your DNA studies.
      >there's no proof of a migration or relocation either
      There is very basic proof that Albanians are not native to the areas they settled in, southern Italy for example as well as southern Greece. Thus, they migrated to at least those areas, which gives the possibility that all of their culture migrated as well.

      You have been brainwashed by communists at your school.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        What a bullshit argument and I'm not even Albanian. A lot of people migrated to other places, that doesn't mean they didn't have a homeland. There's no document or linguistic or genetic evidence of Albanians coming from outside of the Balkans

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >but le heckin document?!
          There is no document or linguistic evidence to suggest they came from the Balkans either, albo.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        my post is occams razor because there's no evidence for a population replacement in the albanian region at any point of history, no evidence for a migration or a transplant of peoples from wherever the frick
        >DNA results should not be considered
        why not? because they ALL show albos are the closest there is to iron age balkanites? because they prove you wrong about them coming from the balkans or turkey or north africa or whatever? because they prove they barely have foreign admixture? is that why?

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >from the balkans o
          from the caucasus* whoops

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Saying Albos is a slur. Say Albanians.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Idgaf

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            You would not say that to an Albanian in real life kid

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yeah I wouldn't, i don't want to end up in a human traffic ring

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Another harmful stereotype

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            You're acting violent toward me for shortening Albanian to albo, isnt that a harmful stereotype too? Balkan bastard? All that?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            You just now called me a bastard

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Thats a stereotype, look up balkan bastard tvtropes

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes I would, you’re all very very weak little people.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            No man is bigger than a bullet

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >the tiny albanian threatens to shoot me for being bigger and stronger than him
            Kek I bet you stole your gun didnt you albo?

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          >why not? because they ALL show albos are the closest there is to iron age balkanites?
          You are mentally handicapped, albo. Albanian is just a oamguage imposed on the local people of the region, so it’s unsurprising that they would share the same DNA as ancient people living there.
          >my post is occams razor because there's no evidence for a population replacement in the albanian region at any point of history, no evidence for a migration or a transplant of peoples from wherever the frick
          Kek you’re a very dumb albo arent you? Like all the other albo animals you need a higher people to instruct you, snd teach you words.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I'm not Albanian and you're mentally ill

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >projection
            Keep seething albo

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Meds

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Did you steal those too albanian?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Did an Albanian steal your girl?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Women don’t like albanians. Maybe Too skinny short and dark.

  22. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    While exact origin of Albanians is unknown i believe proto albanians lived in Sar mountain area (North-western Macedonia/southern Kosovo) and expanded by assimilating adriatic illyrian tribes and latinised peoples. Slavic migrations played a part as well. About origin of proto albanians either dardanian/thracian tribe or messapic link holds most credibility.

  23. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Funny how Gayreeks are always the ones to try to deny Albania's Illyrian heritage and make up nonsense like this

    [...]

    [...]
    I ran out of space.

    During this time, armenians even migrated all the way west to Constantinople and Thrace! That ought to show you how easily albanian could also be brought to greece and southern Italy. Since now we see we have armenian as a precedent. The armenians migrated with the coming of the turks. So we see a relationship between the migrating turks and the movement of armenian along with the appearance of albanian.

    There is another element here- the armenians migrated to areas that were heavily populated by Greeks. We see the same story with the appearance of Albanians. Bari, was a heavily greek city. Sicily, those villages in formerly heavily greek regions. Same in the rest of southern Italy. In fact Corinth had become albanian as well, and big neighborhoods in Athens were albanian. Maybe the entire town. So armenian did the same thing, it left the caucasus to find a home in greek areas and assimilated the local greeks. This is how Taurus Armenia was created.

    My opinion is that it is not a stretch to consider that maybe albanian also followed these patterns. I think it comes from the caucasus.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Funny how Albanians are brainwashed by communists and act as golems for all eternity. And then they migrate out of their shithole to bother every neighboring country including gayreece.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Take meds

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Do you steal those too, alb*nian?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Harmful stereotype

  24. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Albanians aren't Illyrians, they are closer to ancient Greeks and ironically more Greek than the Turks larping as Greeks in modern day Greece. Croatians are probably the most Illyrian modern day nation, but of course also heavily slavified and also a bit italianized. Basically everyone tall from the Balkans is Illyrian, while the poor violent brownoids are Shitalian and Anatolian

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      The Albanian language is Illyrian

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Then why does it have all of its seafaring vocab borrowed from other languages? Illyrians were famous mariners.

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Provide source for claim?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >source?! Source?!
            Maybe reddit is more your speed

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Fine then I claim that all seafaring vocab in Albanian is unchanged from Illyrian

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            I claim that you are mentally ill and transgender

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Gayreeks invented trans and gayness
            Albanians ended it

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Orel (2000), A Concise Historical Grammar of the Albanian Language: Reconstruction of Proto-Albanian

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Can I read it for free online?

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            pdf is on l*bgen

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          So…? Most mariners they communicated with were not illyrian so they changed those terms, modern lebanese dont use pheonician words for sailing nor did the Medieval pisans use etruscan ones

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            This is some very low albanian IQ at on display here. albo brain, dont you realize that lebanese are not good mariners? Pisans have their own seagoing vocabulary. Albanian is a language foreign to the Illyrians who were seafarers, simple as.

            You are the blacks of europe. You dont belong.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >their own
            It doesn’t come from Erruscan even of they descend from them. Case in point, moron

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            You are so severely low IQ that you HAVE TO be Albanian. Black albo, let me explain. Italian is not Etruscan. It was replaced by another language. According to you, Albanian comes from Illyrian. It makes sense for Italian to have different vocabulary. It doesn’t make sense for Albanians to have it.

            I’m going to trust scjolars over you and your trash commie country anyway. You’re not white.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            Yes. Scholars disagree with you and I'm pelsagian illytran you moron.

            There are trillion of cases like this in history. The langauge of the prevailing mariners (like Italians in the middle ages in the mediterranean) prevails over previous languages.

          • 10 months ago
            Anonymous

            >There are trillion of cases like this in history. The langauge of the prevailing mariners (like Italians in the middle ages in the mediterranean) prevails over previous languages.
            This doesn't sound like people native to the Dinaric Alps.

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Albanian is a language between Germanic and Balto-Slavic that got extremely heavily Hellenized

        • 10 months ago
          Anonymous

          Probably not. It has many more Latin loanwords than it has Greek loanwords, which it has hardly any of actually, despite living on top of eachother. Very strange for “illyrian”.

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Mental illness

  25. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Albania

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      >it was real in my mind
      Just keep consooming state propaganda goy.

  26. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Origin is that they were a Hellenic adjacent culture that never prospered past tribalism. Indo European peoples.

    Modern people who are most Illyrian are for sure Albanians. Also montenegrins, Serbs, Herzegovinans, southern Croats have a lot of Illyrian admixture in their blood. When u do DNA tests u can isolate kind of. For example I'm from southern Croatia DNA test says I'm 60 percent Slav (Slovakian/polish/Ukrainian type people) and 40 percent Mediterranean (Illyrian Thracian people).

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      How can you isolate Illyrian?

      • 10 months ago
        Anonymous

        Well if u take someone balkanian and they have a large percent of their DNA corresponding to polish/Belorussian (the most Slavic ppl) and then the rest is kinda Greek/Italian/Mediterranean u can surmise that the med stuff is Illyrian origin given that that person is from balkans

    • 10 months ago
      Anonymous

      Albo

  27. 10 months ago
    Anonymous

    Illyrian IQ: 105
    Albo IQ <75

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