What is the difference between namedropping a philosophical work and making use of concepts present in it to enhance it?

What is the difference between namedropping a philosophical work and making use of concepts present in it to enhance it? Is merely mentioning a writer or a treatise's name in seemingly appropiate situation a good use, or is it necessary for a writer to develop their entire work around illustrating an idea or a set of ideas present in another work in order for it to be said to engage with the work or otherwise respond to it?
Can a single work respond to more than one other work, or must it only respond to one other work and leave everything else unmentioned and untouched so as to fully answer one hyperspecific question in a satisfying manner?

  1. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    PS I do suck cocks and I do have an autism level of over 8000.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Yes

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      We know OP

  2. 4 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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    I guess this is kind of a vn thread? I just wanted to call out this guy

    [deleted post]

    from the previous thread that was (rightfully) deleted before I could reply.
    >The text has to fit into a box therefore it needs to be concise which is detrimental to its prose except in certain special cases like Mareni.
    Are you fucking retarded? You realize the box can be any shape or size the author wishes it to be, right? The text could be displayed on a 3d rotating cube if they wanted. It could, for example, take up the entire screen like it does in Umineko and other vns that you haven't actually read you fucking idiot. Good god, I bet you don't read books either because the text has to fit on pages. You complain that the writing must be made to be concise (you are the first person in human history to complain about writing being concise) and then you went on to complain about how overly long and drawn out the writing is. Make up your mind.
    There is a 0% chance you have read anything in Japanese other than Duolingo or Genki 1 you are full of shit.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i'm not whoever you're upset at, but plenty of literary writers will regularly produce single sentences that are 10 times longer than what could fit on screen in even your example, let alone in a more "traditional" vn ui where there's just a little textbox at the bottom. it's obviously limits the writer when your paragraphs and sentences have to conform to these sort of ui decisions. ending a paragraph, for a writer, is like cutting for a film editor, and films would be impoverished if you had to always cut at 20 second intervals or whatever.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >i'm not whoever you're upset at, but plenty of literary writers will regularly produce single sentences that are 10 times longer than what could fit on screen in even your example
        Not him but that's a 640x480 screen. There's alot more you can do with 1080p or 4k because you can make the text smaller whilst keeping it readable

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      i fucking hate weeaboos holy shit

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

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      >You realize the box can be any shape or size the author wishes it to be, right?
      Not in dialogues. 99,99% of vn dialogues look like pic related. This is literature for weebs.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        The box can be any shape or size, regardless of 99% of vns going for the 'drip-feed dialogue at the bottom of the screen one sentence at a time'-approach. It's just a convention that's become so common-place the fact that it is a convention has become obscured, like when RPGs made the switch to 3d and top-down isometric fell out of fashion entirely for a decade until people remembered that crpg game design had a lot of advantages in its own right. VNs used to be mostly NVL at one point, and imo that style may well become more prominent again in the future.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

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        Meanwhile Medieval European literature:

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

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      Who would've thought that an incel would put LULZ to shame?

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      >You realize the box can be any shape or size the author wishes it to be, right?
      Not in dialogues. 99,99% of vn dialogues look like pic related. This is literature for weebs.

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      Soul

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      Picrelated is the name and title screen of my first VN, you get it for free on itch.io. It'll probably be a couple years before I release my current project, since I'm being very meticulous with it. But if you're interested, that's where you'll find it

      VNfags are so embarrassing, how do you manage to have worse taste than animefags?
      VNs have worse art from bottom of the barrel artists than Vietnamese slave labor lmao

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        it really is incredibly off-putting. there is no way i could ever take something with op's artstyle seriously, even if the writing was good.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          What's wrong with the art in op?

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Are you kidding? It’s the most generic big eyes art style imaginable.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I don't think I've seen hair with shading like that before, and the clothing design is unique. Even if was is generic it doesn't bad at all. You're making me want to read it just to spite you tbh

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        it really is incredibly off-putting. there is no way i could ever take something with op's artstyle seriously, even if the writing was good.

        >judging a book by its cover

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    why there is no visual novel that can make you into an enlightened buddha capable of speaking fluent japanese and having three rainbow dicks just by reading it and picking the right choices? i'm waiting.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    What's the point, thread will be deleted anyway

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I am writing my own visual novel magnum opus that will resurrect visual novels as a medium and enter us into a new renaisence. It will be a flawed work, but it will inpsire others to begin making visual novels, and somebody far greater than myself will come along and embarass all the fuckers in that other thread who complain about how shit everything is but do nothing. I will die pursuing this dream

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Based, I've unironically been pursuing this dream as well. Literally released a VN last year, and I've been working on a much more ambitious project since. Currently on my second draft of the script, and around halfway finished with it

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

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      Based, I've unironically been pursuing this dream as well. Literally released a VN last year, and I've been working on a much more ambitious project since. Currently on my second draft of the script, and around halfway finished with it

      Good sirs or madams, how can I be notified of your work?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        [log in to view media]

        Picrelated is the name and title screen of my first VN, you get it for free on itch.io. It'll probably be a couple years before I release my current project, since I'm being very meticulous with it. But if you're interested, that's where you'll find it

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Is this the one where the girl comes out of the screen while he’s playing a retro VN? I may have heard of this one

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Is this the one where the girl comes out of the screen while he’s playing a retro VN?

            Yeah, this is that one

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Hey that’s the dream I’m dying for

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    All of the supposed flaws and limitations of VNs are obviously not intrinsic to the medium itself. At a basic level, a VN is just something that shows text and images on the screen at the same time. Adding pictures to a text obviously has no intrinsic bearing on the quality of the writing, the types of subject matter discussed, etc.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      what you've done is broadened the definition of "vn" to "any possible piece software with text and images" and the conversation stops making any sense. when people say "vn" they mean actually existing vns, which typically means a jpg background + anime girl sprite + little textbox with badly written dialogue, not some hypothetical literary masterwork one could technically make and call it a vn. vns not sucking "inherently" "as a medium" is like saying reality shows don't suck "inherently" because technically nothing stops some bimbo in big brother from suddenly launching into a profound lecture. that COULD happen, but it doesn't, and the intended audience wouldn't like it if it did. the "limitaton" is not in the technology, it's in the culture. vn readers WANT short, easy-to-read chunks of text, that's why they read vns, and if you gave them a pynchonian wall of tangents to tangents to tangents they'd just quit.

      >i'm not whoever you're upset at, but plenty of literary writers will regularly produce single sentences that are 10 times longer than what could fit on screen in even your example
      Not him but that's a 640x480 screen. There's alot more you can do with 1080p or 4k because you can make the text smaller whilst keeping it readable

      see above

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >vn readers WANT short, easy-to-read chunks of text, that's why they read vns
        Except that the whole fucking problem is that people stopped reading them because they got sick of them, and that's why VNs died out in the first place

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          did they? i don't follow this stuff. steam seems to be full of them, releasing continuously, many with thousands of reviews. they seem to adhere to the traditional formula. where's the "death?"

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're being entirely disingenuous here, in the NVL format you can include a fair bit of text in one screen. Besides, with rare exceptions, Henry James-esque page long sentences have long since gone out of fashion

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Hated this VN. Fuck every single homosexual that thinks this shit is good. Actually, I don't think I've read a single good one.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It was fine. My main problem with it was that it had a lot of wasted potential.
      It had some good moments, especially early on. I loved the whole prologue chapter. I liked the scene where the teacher raped her own father. I liked the scenes with the futa girls. Everything that happened in the second half after the “big twist” was pretty boring though.
      I don’t think the author actually read Wittgenstein, or if he did, he didn’t understand him. There was no mention in the story at all of language games or family resemblance, there was no mention of dissolving philosophical problems through the analysis of language. The author just took some isolated quotes from the Tractatus (“when I am gone the world is gone”) and interpreted them as endorsing a supernatural metaphysics. For a VN that was hyped up as being “philosophical”, that aspect was very disappointing.
      I try not to shit on Subahibi too hard though. I want people to read it. I think there’s a lot of potential in stories LIKE Subahibi - it represents the direction that I think art in general should go in. It’s just that Subahibi itself is a very uncertain and imperfect first step in this direction.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >language games or family resemblance
        That appears in Wittgenstein's PI, not TLP, the one he wrote after he rode tractors and gave milk to the pussy. Subahibi takes a hyperliteralist interpretation of a handful of propositions from the TLP and then turns them into some kind of Clannad-esque the-world-as-a-girl stuff, not because Sca-Di did not read or understand the TLP at all, but rather because the subject matter of the TLP and other early analytic philosophy works is so general and so broadly meant to apply to the clarification of language that it leaves very little room for fiction to have a space to develop, except for one bereft of anything that may be termed lies, expectations, and metaphors. Fiction could not even exist if there was nothing that could be said about what is not known by the methods of the natural sciences. In order for the early Wittgenstein's language philosophy project to be implemented, all discussions would be discussions about abstract sets, numbers, collections, logical organization systems, and whatever else may be constructed with a minimal number of a priori logical axioms.
        Therefore, Subahibi rebels against positivism in as much as it makes use of quotes from a work that proposes such a manner of thinking as the only valid mode of expression for the sake of telling a beautiful and personal story about the indeterminacy of the Self and the creation of meaning by Beings present in the World.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    In general, a writer should be able to use the story to illustrate the concepts they are trying to explore and avoid namedropping. Namedropping usually comes off as trying to feign erudition, imo.

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    If you want to see an example of references gone wrong, try F Gardner's 'Call of the crocodile'.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    You'll have to learn Japanese if you want to attain the ability to dig through dung in order to find a diamond. They very much exist but aren't translated, so obviously on this particular site you most certainly won't hear of it. Before someone bawls, this has little to do with some epic memetic shite bubble invoking whatever "EOP/JOP this and that" fuckery related to translations. No, these diamonds aren't well-known in Japan either so naturally they'll be even less visible to people on this site and there won't be a market and how could there be if they were destined to be commercial failures in their original form?
    Some wandering sense of smugness among LULZizens is idiotic of course, for there is plenty of dogshit literature out there as well. If you haven't finished many books, the classics in particular, you'll have questionable taste for obvious reasons and concepts not so novel clearly strike one as special.

    Having said all that, this topic is not one for LULZ and neither should visual novels in general grow roots here. There are threads on other boards for this, just fucking use them already.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >these diamonds aren’t well-known in Japan either
      Like? Can you give examples?
      I suppose it’s possible that there are some really great underground gems out there. I used my meager Japanese to stumble through Xenon (the only untranslated work of the author of YU-NO). It was a short but very solid sci-fi story. It felt like something that could have been a classic Sirling-era Twilight Zone episode.
      I honestly doubt that there’s anything undiscovered out there that’s on the level of Higurashi or Umineko. If it was that good, then the Japanese community would know about it.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        he is meming every worthwhile vn is known about and already in english

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Bro, but what about [insert generic e-boicentric VN where there's 50 hours of nothing happening and then the e-boi has sex with the MC just before she dies of supermega Japanese fantasy AIDS and turns into a forest spirit] or [insert VN about a guy who has sex with old hags and then has to fight against le adversary man so he captures generic old hag no. 5861]?
          Or uh... what about the one that's about a normal Japanese student living in a normal Japanese town EXCEPT that his childhood friend is the student council VICE-president and is also the princess of a submarine alien civilization that are all exactly like normal humans except that they have antennas and say ~doppu instead tbh at the end of sentences?
          Or well, uh, what about the one that's about a e-boi who has sex with other e-bois and lives in a nice beach town where nothing ever happens?
          Or wait, here I got it! What about the one that's basically just Sengoku era Japan except that they're all hoes with big tiddies and e-bois? Surely THAT's better than anything ever written by Tolstoy, Melville, and Hardy. Perhaps even as good as Paradife Loft and Faust.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Wow, is that what the peak of Japanese art is like? Better go spend 10k hours learning 6k kanji and watching raw anime that I won't understand a single word from so I can read the best Nip lit has to offer.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          Not quite true. I mentioned Xenon. There are untranslated ClockUp VNs like Fraternite and Erewhon. And some well-regarded classics like Saihate no Ima that are still untranslated.
          Probably most of the worthwhile VNs are at least known to the Japanese community though.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I love horror so I can't die without playing this:

  11. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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    Who would've thought that an incel would put LULZ to shame?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Like the atomic bomb. "Metallic fire" doesn't make sense.

  12. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I namedrop quite a bit in my essays but its usually in reference to a concept they brought up

  13. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Love this VN. Good luck to every single /jplit/ chads that liked it too. Actually, I think this is the best vn I've read, next to the bible.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      based
      same here

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      What? Is there a Bible vn?

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Bible Black

  14. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Question doesnt make sense
    Namedropping is nont ubless
    It isnt and its soooo obvious
    Where it isnt because itz
    Necezary it then. If evn
    You namedrop outside that
    E then it look bad and peolel
    Roll he eyes. XOXO

  15. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    bumo

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Fuck off back to the /qa/ offsite tranny circlejerk

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        meds

  16. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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    I have never read a vn

  17. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

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    Soul

  18. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Subahibi is so fucking shit

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