What do Lutherans believe in?
They believe that the bible is the sole source of spiritual authority, second to Martin Luther who gets to decide what counts as the bible.
>They believe that the bible is the sole source of spiritual authority
Then how come they believe in so many non-biblical things like infant baptism, vestments, and etc.? They're just Roman Catholic pagans on disguise.
>They're just Roman Catholic pagans on disguise.
Why should anyone read pagan literature? Lutherans are not Christians, nor are Protestants at large. Baptists are the only true Christians.
>infant baptism is non-biblical
>clothes are non-biblical
baptism is non-biblical
Well it's never found in scripture. So yeah, it is unbiblical
He's referring to the fancy outfits cuckolick priests wear. Which is never mentioned in the NT, so he's right on that tol
israeli priests wore good vestments in the OT. Look at this pic.
You want church to be cultureless. I want it with culture.
Yes, in the OT. We're not under the religious laws of the OT anymore. Are you going to sacrifice an animal now too? The NT never says what clothes to where, and actually warns against people wearing long clothing
Luke 20:46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;
The OT is still part of the Bible. The sacrifice is the Mass at the altar. The high priest performs it. Those who partake in it are God's chosen people.
Because they do not reject traditions that the bible does not explicitly condemn.
Bible says you have to believe before baptism, so infant baptism is invalid. Also they teach bishop celibacy which is a direct violation of scripture
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
>clothes are pagan
israeli priests dressed in robes and vestments in the OT. What Catholic priests do with the robes, incense, and candles is a continuation of what the israelites did in the past.
It seems now they neither follow the bible or even their Luther considering all those gay marriages
> The vice of the Sodomites is an unparalleled enormity. It departs from the natural passion and desire, planted into nature by God, according to which the male has a passionate desire for the female. Sodomy craves what is entirely contrary to nature. Whence comes this perversion? Without a doubt it comes from the devil. After a man has once turned aside from the fear of God, the devil puts such great pressure upon his nature that he extinguishes the fire of natural desire and stirs up another, which is contrary to nature. - Martin Luther
we're pretty much catholics without the priests and we're big on solas
These days? Just gay marriage and transsexuality, I suppose.
Read the book of concord
You should read the book of concord if you want to know what Lutherans believe
I'm not OP, I am here to preach the gospel. Lutherans are NOT Christians. They are pagan.
Maybe you should make your own thread then
If Lutherans affirm that salvation is by faith alone, then how do they differ from Baptists?
What your beef? Infant baptism?
Get to the point or get lost.
Lutherans are not Christians because:
1. They believe in infant baptism
2. They teach baptism as a means of forgivness of sins which is against the Bible and also is works based salvation
3. They believe in creeds and confessions that are not the Bible
4. They practice strange rituals and wear long robes and vestments like the Pharisees did despite the fact that the Bible nowhere commands this
5. They believe in sacraments which are magical rites against the Bible
6. They drink alcohol which the Bible forbids, Jesus drank grape juice not wine.
7. They believe in a threefold ministry instead of the Biblical twofold
8. They worship images and statues
There are many others I can list, but we can conclude from this that Lutherans are NOT Christians. They are pagans and Roman Catholic-lite. Their false religion was even founded by a Catholic monk, whereas Jesus Christ established the first Baptist congregation with his 12 apostles in 33 AD.
>baptism is works-based salvation
You're a bunch of fucking nutjobs, you know?
You can mock and persecute me all you want. That's why our church hid underground for centuries, since the great apostasy, because you mixed paganism with Christianity and made a false religion called Roman Catholicism which has persecuted Baptists for nearly 2000 years.
>6. They drink alcohol which the Bible forbids, Jesus drank grape juice not wine.
I almost fell for bait, should've guessed based on the digits
>They practice strange rituals and wear long robes and vestments like the Pharisees did despite the fact that the Bible nowhere commands this
I wish we did this at my church, it's regrettably very modernist and resembles "non-denominational" churches far too much for my liking.
>They drink alcohol which the Bible forbids, Jesus drank grape juice not wine.
Jesus' very first miracle was turning water into wine, yes, wine at a wedding.
Note how this passage makes no sense if it's grape juice:
John 2:9 Now when the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter called the groom, 10 and said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the guests are drunk, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.”
It's well drunk, as in that they drank a lot, not intoxicated you retard. And then you have Jesus pushing people to sin
They don't believe in faith alone though since they teach baptism forgives sins. This is works based salvation. The Bible says that: "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Salvation is by FAITH ALONE, Lutherans do not really believe in this, if they had then they would practice believers baptism. Instead they teach a works based salvation.
What do you think of the position that God pre plans people's baptisms before they are born and ensures they happen? God is the one controlling the priest to make him baptize. This was Leonard Feeney's position on baptism. Those predestined to salvation God pre plans their baptisms so they happen no matter what.
Baptism is simply an outward sign of inward redemption, it has NO SAVING POWER at all. God does not predestine people to salvation or damnation either, this is Calvinism which is also a false Roman Catholic-lite pagan religion that is not Christian.
They completely reject the authority of the Catholic and Orthodox churches but maintain a luke warm adherence to the practices while accepted the authority of the Catholic and Orthodox churches in: ecumenical councils, canon of scripture, filioque, most theology except the need to be a part of the church Christ started
In my case, I'm Lutheran because my Scottish Presbyterian father considered being Protestant part of our ethnic identity, but he thought the local Presbyterian priest was a twat so the local Finn working for a Swedish church offered to baptize me instead kek
I still get emails inviting me to some Swedish consulate events too.
Lol I'm Lutheran because there was a nice private church-school right down the street from my house and my parents didn't want me going to some shitty public school
>They completely reject the authority of the Catholic and Orthodox churches but maintain a luke warm adherence to the practices while accepted the authority of the Catholic and Orthodox churches in: ecumenical councils
wait, are you describing lutherans or ~80% of catholics?
American Catholics not worldwide ones.
>church Christ started
piss off retard
Lutherans as far as Lutheranism believe that you can sin all day and it is no problem. That once you are saved you are always saved. Then you can turn around and rape and murder as much as you want. But modern day Lutheranism doesn't really say that. It doesn't really speak on such a topic at all really. It's more of just kind of an obtuse Jesus take the wheel type pontification. No real depth to it beyond that.
Very ignorant post
That post is spot on.
Cite your claims then
>Cite your claims then
Ah yes the out of context quote of Luther about sinning boldly. Read a single thing that Luther has written and you will see he despises Christians living in unrepentant sin. At the very least read his large catechism.
>just say it's out of context even if there is no possible context that could change the meaning
This quote comes from a letter to Philip Melanchthon in 1521. We don’t have the entire context of the full communication between him and Luther so you have to put the pieces together. It is the beginning of the reformation. In this time Luther is not seriously writing about the laxity of sin. Which he writes against strongly later. He is still excited about the reformation discovery of justification through faith alone. In the letter Phillip is dealing with questions that you are sinning if you continue certain Roman practices. And he is beating himself up over this question. Luther is speaking to a brother pastorally and trying to ease his conscience if there is sin there is forgiveness also. Luther also makes overstatements all the time. It is how he speaks and does rhetorically to get his point across. Read Luther’s later writings and sermons where he is very harsh on obeying God’s Law that you may left with no hope at all. He is no pure antinomian. Read his large catechism Or Edward Engelbrecht who had a volume defending Luther on theories of the law.
Sounds more like Calvinism you’re describing
This isn't clever because the criticism it intends to make does not operate in a circle
>That once you are saved you are always saved
Lutherans don't believe OSAS. And we don't teach you should just sin anyways then, retard. God will punish you on earth, but never in hell
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
My dad believed that if you do murder or do adultery all the time you aren't Christian because you are supposed to be born again. God overtakes your old will and transforms you into someone different. If you don't feel this transformation, you were never saved and have false security. You must be first transformed and then saved.
My brother believes similar. He believes once you're saved you would never do these things because of the inner transformation of being born again. What denomination does this view come from?
Basically, it's possible to know for the right reasons that you yourself are saved, but the only way to understand others is through their actions. You can't just go based on their professions of what they claim to believe, you have to look at their actions. That's why Christ said, "by their fruits ye shall know them." (Matth. 7:20). It's why James said what he said. It doesn't invalidate eternal security of the believer, it just means that (aside from God) only you have the potential to actually know whether or not you are saved, as John said in 1 John 5:13 - and it's the same for each of us. It's also a fact that being saved produces good fruit, because of what God enables us to do. Paul said to the Philippian church in Philippians 1:6 that he was confident, "that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ".
They both believed in once saved always saved. But my dad's belief for example was that if you do something really heinous you never were saved because when you're born-again God takes over your old will and transforms you. You must be transformed so that you're made a new person otherwise you can never be saved at all.
They’re Catholics without a pope, especially the German ones
They still worship Mary, pray to saints, and believe in consubstantiation which is very similar to transubstantiation.
Is my Catholic part of family not Catholic then? They don't pray to Mary or saints but go to Mass each week. They use rosaries to wear or hang around the house but never use them to pray on (they don't believe in the Mary or saint prayer thing) and use things like crucifixes and pictures of Michael the archangel as decor but don't use the statues. I'm American if you're wondering.
True Lutheranism is defined the Lutheran confession The Book of Concord. Which contains the Augsburg Confession, the apology of the Augsburg Confession, Luther’s Small and large Catechism, smalcald articles, Treatise on the primacy of the pope, and the formula of Concord.
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