pre-built NAS boxes are computers (often fairly weak ones) with some hot-swap bays and a web interface for configuring various file-serving bits. If you build your own "home server" it can do whatever you want, not just serve files. e.g. some of the /hsg/ crowd sticks video cards in them for hardware-accelerated video transcoding, so your friends can stream your anime collection in 4k over the internet and stuff like that. Or you can run game servers, make it into your router, etc etc.
so NAS refers specifically to the prebuilts? I've been considering building a home server to store my media properly and am trying to avoid any stupid mistakes
You can also build your own NAS.
There is no clear definition of what a "NAS" is but I would say anything that runs a specialized NAS operating system.
IMO a NAS should also be focused entirely on storage (and providing access to that storage) instead of trying to be more than that.
NAS stands for Network Attached Storage. It's literally just storage you can access over tcp/ip. Every windows pc can act as a "NAS" in that they have folder sharing built in.
Buying a prebuilt is never worth it if you're mildly technical. If you need something for your boomer dad who still spends $200/month on cable get him a synology and enjoy not being free tech support.
it's all a computer, connected to internet
the cloud is just someone elses computer
nas is a computer with multiple HDDs or SSDs
server is just a computer
router is just a computer
NAS is more like for personal stuff and it feels safer than true server in a way it's harder to brick it or fuck something up. I have small single bay synology box and all my documents, photos and whatever is there. It's like modern equivalent of idk, drawer with papers next to your desk back in the day.
I also have 4u rack server with "real" os which I honestly don't use much.
Synology prices are outrageous and capitalist penny counting is evident on every step but it's still comfy. I got mine used with 4tb drive years ago for like 80€.
>some of the /hsg/ crowd sticks video cards in them for hardware-accelerated video transcoding
My QNAP NAS literally has this already
In truth the line between home server and pre-built NAS has become blurred and the only real difference is if you're okay with how shit pre-built's firmware is.
If you build your own NAS and put some shitty NAS OS on it, you get to spend your time fucking with it. Eventually you lose all your data.
If you buy a Synology or the like, you patch it every few months by clicking one button and spend the rest of your time watching movies or whatever you do.
>Shitty OS? You know TrueNAS
Yes, the shittiest of them all. >you can purchase the license and support for
That you think you'll get any usable/competent support out of the TrueNAS retards when you have major problems just made my day, and we're only 90 minutes into it. Thank you anon, you've started the weekend off right.
What is this FUD? ZFS is great. FBSD is fine. Literally been using it since the early 2000s with no issues. You can buy an appliance NAS or whatever, no one cares.
TrueNAS is great. But it requires expertise and tinkering. It's perfect for autists, hobbyists, or cheapskates (me), to fuck with and learn. If you just want a fileshare and a plex server, then a prebuilt NAS is a great choice at a premium.
Would something like Unraid be a happy medium between prebaked and something like TrueNAS?
I'm still weighing up my options for an OS since I haven't ordered parts yet
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Just use Openmediavault. Truenas is too locked down. OMV is just debian with a gui.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
It's not so much that Truenas is locked down, it's that there's no room for deviation.
The two schools of thought.
>I just need something for me and maybe two people
$300 single board PC from eBay, Ryzen probably, and two externals, both the same size. Rsync a backup about once a week. >I am Google now.
Anything less than a full server rack is just playtime, kiddo!
You'd be surprised what you can get with $100 off ebay. If I was willing to buy new ssds, I could've got one of those tiny little fuckers but now I have something that I can put a 10gbit card in, once I reach that point.
i echo this guys sentiment. its fucking giga retarded that the way ZFS handles errors is to offline the whole thing. doesnt matter if its a prod database or cat pictures. if its so advanced let me decide what's the failure mode behaviour.
You can tell the pool how it will handle such errors. But like every linux/programming heavy thing, it's really difficult to dig up these options without looking up the man page every time or it becoming an error first. >Something stupid happens and errors barf everywhere >Internet: "You were supposed to use -l when setting that up 99% of the time, but no it's not the default"
Even now trying to look up the exact option that I stumbled upon once, and I can't fucking find it. There:
failmode=wait|continue|panic
wait is the default that prevents any access until errors are cleared. continue stops any write access. But that is for zpool, which is handling whole disks, not the individual datasets.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
=wait|continue|panic
thanks anon, this is interesting. might give this a go.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Deviation. Uh if you mean app choice. Look at truecharts catalog. Plenty of apps on there. If you mean something else I don't know what it could be. A server is not made to be a fuck around toy after all.It's made to be configured as you need it to be then left alone doing its thing.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
They already gave up on jail containerization for truenas core and I really wouldn't call relying on an existing docker system for scale an achievement.
Enterprise AMD pro cpus happen to come with a poorly documented pseudo ipmi shared on the main ethernet port. Truenas manages to detects this and tries to load ipmi drivers but completely stalls out. This was on first boot after install right after I thought I didn't need a monitor attached anymore. The forums are full of random problems like that, so at least I found a work around. >It's made to be configured as you need it to be then left alone doing its thing.
I agree but in my case it didn't even want to run without manual intervention of the boot settings, which from the sound of it, I would've needed to alter anytime I updated.
RAID 6 on my LSI controllers just goes hey a bad sector!
Warn user and use the parity bits to reconstruct it elsewhere.
That should be the default.
It's supposed to do that automatically too. >blocks that are detected as corrupt are automatically repaired if possible, by using the RAID protection in suitably configured pools, or redundant copies (see the zfs copies property) >periodic scrubs can check data to detect and repair latent media degradation (bit rot) and corruption from other sources
So it should already be doing that stuff, but naturally these docs on openzfs don't define what "suitably configured pools" is supposed to entail past redundancy. And nobody can seem to make semi-interactive man pages so ctrl+f doesn't bounce you around the entire document.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>periodic scrubs can check data to detect and repair latent media degradation (bit rot) and corruption from other sources
I saw that LTT Store episode too where no one did scrubs and just assumed everything was tip top condition.
The beauty of an LSI controller is there is no input from the user after the array is built.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
RAID 6 on my LSI controllers just goes hey a bad sector!
Warn user and use the parity bits to reconstruct it elsewhere.
That should be the default.
Nearly any homosexual on a platform is getting handouts from companies.
so NAS refers specifically to the prebuilts? I've been considering building a home server to store my media properly and am trying to avoid any stupid mistakes
The main problem is that consumers generally expect the box with the storage to handle other server tasks. Whereas these companies and usually enterprise will, in some respects, separate the storage from the rack doing work. But they also get 10gb fiber channels to handle data connectivity, whereas you're probably stuck with 1gb ethernet, and none of these assholes can be assed to make a sufficient standard for detached storage aside from reusing usb shit.
So they make something with a pathetic cpu and next to no ram, not even ecc, and consumers always end up confused when their "server" isn't capable of doing anything past telling other computers where your porn is stashed.
They are definitely overpriced. I need to upgrade my media NAS soon and am evaluating options. I kind of want to get a server rack but I don't have a ton of space. So a NAS is a valid option.
Don't get why consumer shit isn't 19 inch rack mountable. What kind of consumer needs 8 fucking drive bays but doesn't want it mounted in a rack? Boggles my mind.
because then they'd have to make cheaper rack hardware for consoomers, and corpos would start buying the cheaper shit in bulk instead of allowing themselves to get gypped
Who actually buys an 8 bay NAS from a company like synology and qnap? Those companies are not professional grade but those devices will require professional grade prices.
I can understand buying a 2 or even 4 bay NAS from the usual suspects. But 4+ is far more economical (and just as easy) to build yourself or more reliable from the main server vendors.
It boggled my fucking mind when I learned how much my company pays for racks and rails. They're literally just a bunch of metal frames. Shitty ones too.
I wouldn't want to be the guy that put consumer shit in the rack design when everything blows up. I highly doubt it's the mounting hardware they're paying the premium for.
Because not everyone who needs a lot of fast and dependable storage also has one of these butt-ugly racks at home or in the office. Even an 8-bay NAS fist on a bookshelf easily
because a 19'' rack is literally made for enterprise situations, not consumer.
the entire reason why 19'' rack exists, is to cram as much hardware in as little space as possible, hurting airflow, resulting in 19 inch rack stuff almost always being extremely loud. Which is not a problem if youre a company and can put it into a specialized room.
quit the 19'' rack stuff at home, you're just doing it because you think its cool. but it's not, and its not ideal for your home.
Who actually buys an 8 bay NAS from a company like synology and qnap? Those companies are not professional grade but those devices will require professional grade prices.
I can understand buying a 2 or even 4 bay NAS from the usual suspects. But 4+ is far more economical (and just as easy) to build yourself or more reliable from the main server vendors.
mostly in my experience it cant gracefully handle bad sectors, it just shuts down the whole array. and i cant find a way to make it stop doing that. i dont give a shit about integrity of my japanese cartoons. let the disk explode for all i care.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
You're fucking retarded. ZFS is all about data integrity. If you think that keeping a disk with bad sectors in your array is fine then ZFS is simply not for you. Just use FAT32 like a retard and loose your data when your hardware inevitably dies.
nta, but I read that zfs can't handle defragmentation. put me off from it completely
Fragmentation is not an issue for ZFS. This is not a Microsoft designed filesystem so it actually just works.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>You're fucking retarded. ZFS is all about data integrity. If you think that keeping a disk with bad sectors in your array is fine then ZFS is simply not for you. Just use FAT32 like a retard and loose your data when your hardware inevitably dies.
hence i said why it sucks for home use. i liked it for the ability to easily add / remove disks from the array, but the overkill on the data integrity front, and the lack of ability to remove it is fucking retarded.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>mostly in my experience it cant gracefully handle bad sectors
your experience doesn't exist. you're full of shit and retarded
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
i echo this guys sentiment. its fucking giga retarded that the way ZFS handles errors is to offline the whole thing. doesnt matter if its a prod database or cat pictures. if its so advanced let me decide what's the failure mode behaviour.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>zfs is bad because I use it like a retard
fuck off
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
even if that's the case it only strengthens my case. its not suitable for home use.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
the whole point of zfs is data integrity. if you care about data integrity at home, then use zfs in a manner which allows it to do its job. being a retard and using zfs improperly doesn't mean it isn't suitable for home use, unless by "not suitable for home use" you mean "not suitable for retards" which is accurate
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
things can be more than one thing. or at least well designed things. being able to define failure mode behaviour isnt some arcane idea.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>zfs isn't suitable for home use, and here are the reasons why >y-you're using it wrong!
classic open source cope
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
nta, but I read that zfs can't handle defragmentation. put me off from it completely
>Who actually buys an 8 bay NAS from a company like synology and qnap?
With Synology you get more CPU power in the larger models.
I think most customers would be fine with 4 or 5 drives but they just want more performance.
And I think it's mostly businesses who buy them, not home users.
I do agree the prices get silly with the larger models.
Don't mind paying a few hundred for the software and easy of use, but it's not worth thousands.
Build your own. That way your not lacking for raw power and ram not to mention data safety. ZFS and Raid Z2,Z3, or mirrors should be the defacto standard. Sure back in the early 00s you could get away with NTFS or whatever but that was due to data requirements being nowhere what they are now. Get a "error" in some file, hey restore it no problem cause the data in question was maybe 2TB total if that. Now? Uh yeah good luck with that with drives hitting 22+ TB and all. Do it once, do it right, enjoy your data, every single little file, till the day you die with no stress or worries that that photo of Jimmy when he's 2 can still be read in 50 years just as it was when it was placed on disk.
>With ZFS + ECC ram, wouldnt RAID 6 be just fine too?
Yea exactly, works great. I run RAIDZ3 on my ZFS, then I run an crypted RAID6 on that, then another crypto RAID 0+1+0+1, then another layer of ZFS (RAIDZ2) on top of that. RAM is ECC, then I have a backup server that does ECC on the RAM because some guy said one time ZFS blows up if you don't have a secondary RAM ECC offload server.
I got a QNAP one with a Ryzen processor and ECC memory.
I was able to pull the USB flash module off the motherboard and it booted from my external USB Linux distribution no problem. >just build it yourself
I'd rather get something that just fucking works with ECC instead of needing to guess and hope that whatever bit error injection shit is actually working properly.
>I'd rather get something that just fucking works with ECC
Ryzen PRO CPU if you want integrated graphics.
Regular Ryzen if you don’t need graphics.
ECC RAM
Any modern AM4 motherboard. Most list ECC support in specs and list tested ECC modules in QVL.
Jonsbo N2 or N3 case.
TrueNAS
That’s all you need for an inexpensive and absolutely beefy and flexible home NAS that absolutely shits on your chink QNAP garbage. You also get PCIe slots and IOMMU as a bonus.
I have no purpose for a NAS I don't use a TV and I can watch all my shows natively on my pc and if I need to share a file it takes 2 seconds either by airdrop or google drive
You used to be able to get them dirt cheap. I think hp dumped a fuck load on the market I remember getting one for like 130 bucks, added in a sata 4 port PCI card and a 5.25" bracket to 2x 3.5" and then you could use esata to SATA cable and poke it back inside the box. They were fucking beasts. CPU is a little old now but such good value
t. put about 14tb drives into an old (i3, 16gb ddr4) gaymer box I had. Chucked openmedia vault on a spare old 32gb ssd and have slowly been transferring all of the files from about a dozen 1-2tb external hdds that I used to plug into the back of the tv for us to watch shit.
I bought 1 of these - https://www.netgear.com/support/product/SC101T.aspx
years ago - it's $150 paperweight.
I've used QNAPs for work >can't set multiple IPs on a network interface, need a script that runs on startup, doesn't always work >running a script on startup is an hack itself >containers often don't restart properly >requires manual intervention to run fsck after a power failure, this also prevents all containers from starting up
It kind of works as long as you have an UPS
It's on old Lian Li case that you can't buy anymore. Q26. Best modern alternative would be Jonsbo N2 or N3. Sadly Lian LI no longer makes good cases. They make ugly glass window shit for RGB fags now.
Truenas scale is free. I run it along with Plex,Calibre-Web,qbitorrent, and kavita. Now I'll admit doing the switch from the old iocage plugin way to the newer container way is a bit of a learning curve due to the app devs not really putting out any detailed config guides. (Except for kavita, go figure) and also getting it all to work with SMB shares requires a bit of time. However once you sit down and get things lined out the whole system runs smooth as butter and honestly you'd never hear a peep out of it barring an alert e-mail. The downside; you can't just slap together any old computer. Nor should you frankly. You want a stable rock solid server then you should use parts made for such work (server cpu,ram,motherboard,etc). The only part you can skimp on is your case, long as it's got enough fans and bays, the case maters not. Rack style, desktop tower, mini tower, don't mater much. Aside; I use rsync for backups. Why? Cause then OS choice is wide open. You can send data from Truenas Scale to old freenas 8.3 box no problem. Why that old? Simple; backup dump boxes don't need much raw power to be useful. Long as the parts are server quality and its got the bays that's all you need for a backup dump box. (aka N40L's and those like them, small, low power but rock solid stable)
These nas enclosures are overly expensive. Like even a Synology 2 drive bay (TWO FUCKING DRIVE BAYS) is 200 dollars.
You can get a cheap office PC for that price and turn it into your proper home server.
They are good, but very expensive. Just too fucking expensive. The best brand is Synology. If you get one make sure it's not an enterprise or business line or they'll force you to use their proprietary drives to get SMART status. israelites.
Even better, goto ebay and pick any dell or HP server chassis and build your own fucking NAS. Put proxmox, or truenas, or openmediavauilt, or unraid on it. All great choices. Research lots and lots. Then lurk on /hsg/.
i gave the x6 a new motherboard and power supply a couple years back. '20 or '21 i think. 16gb ddr3. 10gb fiber optic out, regular gigabit in.
the video card is set to fail before anything. all the voltage rails are fucked. 3.3v is practically nonexistant, 5v is is more like 3.7v, and 12v is down to 8 or 9. i was going to recap it, but i don't care enough to bother. i basically run it headless anyway.
for just a media server and torrent box, it's actually doing OK for something from like 2009 or 2010.
>on it's last's legs
nah. it's been like that for like 8 years now. it'll be fine. i first noticed it around 2015, which is why i bought a new comp in 2019. >transcode furry porn
i swear it's just ordinary hollywood israeli mindrot .
I set up a company's server, which only requires a shared folder and backups with a synology nas like 5 years ago.
I've had no problem since then, even during covid they could do remote work using synology drive, so I'm pretty happy with it.
I don't care if people say that it's way too expensive, it was all incredibly easy to set up and it's been stable since then, so it's worth it imho.
I'd recommend it to everyone who either is not tech savvy or just wants to set it up fast and forget about it.
i use a synology nas as a target for my local restic backups and i regret buying it. it works and all, but it's a very shitty piece of hardware then the software is a buck-broken linux.
>I just need something for me and maybe two people
$300 single board PC from eBay, Ryzen probably, and two externals, both the same size. Rsync a backup about once a week. >I am Google now.
Anything less than a full server rack is just playtime, kiddo!
You guys really need to understand just what you can do with even the most limited hardware.
I host Jellyfin, Kavita with all of Project Gutenberg and about 50GB of manga, Kiwix with a full backup of Wikipedia, 8TB of media, Nextcloud with six apps, Adguard and wireguard under the hood of a 6600U and it gets hosted to 20 different users and I never hear a complaint.
Don't overspend. No need for a bulldozer if all you need is a shovel.
>I just need something for me and maybe two people
$300 single board PC from eBay, Ryzen probably, and two externals, both the same size. Rsync a backup about once a week. >I am Google now.
Anything less than a full server rack is just playtime, kiddo!
Not using a $5 VPS for either situation is kind of retarded. Hosting stuff from your house sucks, you're essentially living in a super expensive data center then.
You guys really need to understand just what you can do with even the most limited hardware.
I host Jellyfin, Kavita with all of Project Gutenberg and about 50GB of manga, Kiwix with a full backup of Wikipedia, 8TB of media, Nextcloud with six apps, Adguard and wireguard under the hood of a 6600U and it gets hosted to 20 different users and I never hear a complaint.
Don't overspend. No need for a bulldozer if all you need is a shovel.
It's one of those things where overkill hardware comes along with hardware that has alot of expansion.
Not many are under the delusion they need 32 cores for a home server but if you buy anything with some actual expansion your going to end up having an overkill cpu
I have a modest micro atx home server and it really doesn't do much but because I'm reusing an lga 1150 board it's nothing to put a $20 xeon in.
The people buying 4u storage servers just end up with 8+ core CPUs because it's whats included or they're cheap, even if damn near all the cores are going to be idle.
this is correct except you can also do rackmount with low TDP SoC motherboards. my home server is a 14W TDP Intel Atom with 48TB attached in raidz2 in a nice rackmount case
I have an r5 2600 i just got out of my old pc. Would it be good for building a nas? Just want a plex server or something to backup family photos and stuff
This is my little Truenas setup; Its older hardware but for my needs it's solid so meh.
Supermicro x9 board, Xeon E3 1270v2, 32GB EEC ram, 6x 18TB Exos drives, 2x 40GB SSD drives (mirrored boot), LSI 9211 8 port 6gbps controller
I have 32tbs of synology nas drives I stole from my last place of employment. No idea what to do with them though, since I've already hoarded anything else I wanted on externals I have laying around.
Just get a barebones chassis from ebay and fill it with as many drives as you can fit. Install truenas, openmediavault. Cheap file server and very easy to upgrade.
Protip, for any chassis you buy, always download the spec sheet to make sure you get the right upgrades. Also the server I linked comes with the hot-plug drive enclosures looks like, but not all do. Also some servers use SAS drives instead of SATA, which is another thing to watch out for - consumer drives are SATA.
Just build one urself I have a 20 tb HDD hooked up to a rockpi synced with both my phone and computer very low energy consumption since it only start syncing at midnight and then goes to sleep until next day unless I wanna watch or listen to doming from that library in my man cave
Sigh before covid jacked things up you could get server cases from newegg for 100 that were 12 bay and via an adapter for an extra 30 expand the bay count to 15. Wish to hell I snagged one then. But oh well.
I bought the cheapest qnap NAS I could get a few years ago for like $160, have a simple RAID 1 set up with WD red plus 8 GB disks, fits under my couch.
Store all my memes, media, data, etc. works good enough,
The only thing I would say though is maybe pay a bit extra and get one that supports an m2 ssd caching.
What LULZ thinks regarding NAS* . Fucking hell
Still wrong, retard
I don't care
>What LULZ thinks regarding NAS
home server for brainlets
QNAP, Synology looks user friendly so
Their webUI is horribly slow but good enough to set up a smb share and snmp, which is all you really need it for I guess.
Really not worth it considering how much cheaper and serviceable off the shelf pcs are.
as a brainlet, what's the difference between the two
pre-built NAS boxes are computers (often fairly weak ones) with some hot-swap bays and a web interface for configuring various file-serving bits. If you build your own "home server" it can do whatever you want, not just serve files. e.g. some of the /hsg/ crowd sticks video cards in them for hardware-accelerated video transcoding, so your friends can stream your anime collection in 4k over the internet and stuff like that. Or you can run game servers, make it into your router, etc etc.
so NAS refers specifically to the prebuilts? I've been considering building a home server to store my media properly and am trying to avoid any stupid mistakes
You can also build your own NAS.
There is no clear definition of what a "NAS" is but I would say anything that runs a specialized NAS operating system.
IMO a NAS should also be focused entirely on storage (and providing access to that storage) instead of trying to be more than that.
NAS stands for Network Attached Storage. It's literally just storage you can access over tcp/ip. Every windows pc can act as a "NAS" in that they have folder sharing built in.
Buying a prebuilt is never worth it if you're mildly technical. If you need something for your boomer dad who still spends $200/month on cable get him a synology and enjoy not being free tech support.
it's all a computer, connected to internet
the cloud is just someone elses computer
nas is a computer with multiple HDDs or SSDs
server is just a computer
router is just a computer
it's all just a computer
NAS is more like for personal stuff and it feels safer than true server in a way it's harder to brick it or fuck something up. I have small single bay synology box and all my documents, photos and whatever is there. It's like modern equivalent of idk, drawer with papers next to your desk back in the day.
I also have 4u rack server with "real" os which I honestly don't use much.
Synology prices are outrageous and capitalist penny counting is evident on every step but it's still comfy. I got mine used with 4tb drive years ago for like 80€.
>some of the /hsg/ crowd sticks video cards in them for hardware-accelerated video transcoding
My QNAP NAS literally has this already
In truth the line between home server and pre-built NAS has become blurred and the only real difference is if you're okay with how shit pre-built's firmware is.
The biggest difference is QNAP shit is mostly proprietary
An server/NAS doesn't have to be
With things like truenas you can get that appliance-like operation on any hardware
If you build your own NAS and put some shitty NAS OS on it, you get to spend your time fucking with it. Eventually you lose all your data.
If you buy a Synology or the like, you patch it every few months by clicking one button and spend the rest of your time watching movies or whatever you do.
Shitty OS? You know TrueNAS exists. It’s a proper commercial product that you can purchase the license and support for.
>Shitty OS? You know TrueNAS
Yes, the shittiest of them all.
>you can purchase the license and support for
That you think you'll get any usable/competent support out of the TrueNAS retards when you have major problems just made my day, and we're only 90 minutes into it. Thank you anon, you've started the weekend off right.
What is this FUD? ZFS is great. FBSD is fine. Literally been using it since the early 2000s with no issues. You can buy an appliance NAS or whatever, no one cares.
watch out
we got a Nexenta badass over here
The Ceph cluster in your homelab Proxmox doesn't count as a NAS
>Yes, the shittiest of them all.
Anon. Why TrueNas shitty?
skill issue probably
you do need a touch of the 'tism to really understand ZFS, truenas makes it easy enough for the surface level stuff though
I see
TrueNAS is great. But it requires expertise and tinkering. It's perfect for autists, hobbyists, or cheapskates (me), to fuck with and learn. If you just want a fileshare and a plex server, then a prebuilt NAS is a great choice at a premium.
Would something like Unraid be a happy medium between prebaked and something like TrueNAS?
I'm still weighing up my options for an OS since I haven't ordered parts yet
Just use Openmediavault. Truenas is too locked down. OMV is just debian with a gui.
It's not so much that Truenas is locked down, it's that there's no room for deviation.
You'd be surprised what you can get with $100 off ebay. If I was willing to buy new ssds, I could've got one of those tiny little fuckers but now I have something that I can put a 10gbit card in, once I reach that point.
You can tell the pool how it will handle such errors. But like every linux/programming heavy thing, it's really difficult to dig up these options without looking up the man page every time or it becoming an error first.
>Something stupid happens and errors barf everywhere
>Internet: "You were supposed to use -l when setting that up 99% of the time, but no it's not the default"
Even now trying to look up the exact option that I stumbled upon once, and I can't fucking find it. There:
failmode=wait|continue|panic
wait is the default that prevents any access until errors are cleared. continue stops any write access. But that is for zpool, which is handling whole disks, not the individual datasets.
=wait|continue|panic
thanks anon, this is interesting. might give this a go.
Deviation. Uh if you mean app choice. Look at truecharts catalog. Plenty of apps on there. If you mean something else I don't know what it could be. A server is not made to be a fuck around toy after all.It's made to be configured as you need it to be then left alone doing its thing.
They already gave up on jail containerization for truenas core and I really wouldn't call relying on an existing docker system for scale an achievement.
Enterprise AMD pro cpus happen to come with a poorly documented pseudo ipmi shared on the main ethernet port. Truenas manages to detects this and tries to load ipmi drivers but completely stalls out. This was on first boot after install right after I thought I didn't need a monitor attached anymore. The forums are full of random problems like that, so at least I found a work around.
>It's made to be configured as you need it to be then left alone doing its thing.
I agree but in my case it didn't even want to run without manual intervention of the boot settings, which from the sound of it, I would've needed to alter anytime I updated.
It's supposed to do that automatically too.
>blocks that are detected as corrupt are automatically repaired if possible, by using the RAID protection in suitably configured pools, or redundant copies (see the zfs copies property)
>periodic scrubs can check data to detect and repair latent media degradation (bit rot) and corruption from other sources
So it should already be doing that stuff, but naturally these docs on openzfs don't define what "suitably configured pools" is supposed to entail past redundancy. And nobody can seem to make semi-interactive man pages so ctrl+f doesn't bounce you around the entire document.
>periodic scrubs can check data to detect and repair latent media degradation (bit rot) and corruption from other sources
I saw that LTT Store episode too where no one did scrubs and just assumed everything was tip top condition.
The beauty of an LSI controller is there is no input from the user after the array is built.
RAID 6 on my LSI controllers just goes hey a bad sector!
Warn user and use the parity bits to reconstruct it elsewhere.
That should be the default.
NetworkChuck just got a bunch. He's a smart guy.
Nearly any homosexual on a platform is getting handouts from companies.
The main problem is that consumers generally expect the box with the storage to handle other server tasks. Whereas these companies and usually enterprise will, in some respects, separate the storage from the rack doing work. But they also get 10gb fiber channels to handle data connectivity, whereas you're probably stuck with 1gb ethernet, and none of these assholes can be assed to make a sufficient standard for detached storage aside from reusing usb shit.
So they make something with a pathetic cpu and next to no ram, not even ecc, and consumers always end up confused when their "server" isn't capable of doing anything past telling other computers where your porn is stashed.
They are definitely overpriced. I need to upgrade my media NAS soon and am evaluating options. I kind of want to get a server rack but I don't have a ton of space. So a NAS is a valid option.
Look at Silverstone or Jonsbo's small server cases, good way to experiment without going full rack
Recently got a Jonsbo N2 and it's basically all I need.
VEeEEERRRR clack clack CL-ACK
do it yourself with used parts. don't buy consumer shit with poor firmware and limited hardware support.
the problem is that those remote-controlled server boards are super expensive
Expensive.
Don't get why consumer shit isn't 19 inch rack mountable. What kind of consumer needs 8 fucking drive bays but doesn't want it mounted in a rack? Boggles my mind.
because then they'd have to make cheaper rack hardware for consoomers, and corpos would start buying the cheaper shit in bulk instead of allowing themselves to get gypped
Well fuck them and fuck you.
Fuck you too.
Fuck everyone.
Thanks.
i thinks regarding you is faget
It boggled my fucking mind when I learned how much my company pays for racks and rails. They're literally just a bunch of metal frames. Shitty ones too.
I wouldn't want to be the guy that put consumer shit in the rack design when everything blows up. I highly doubt it's the mounting hardware they're paying the premium for.
Why would I have a rack in my house? I can fit my big NAS on my spare desk, it used to also live on a bookshelf but the lights were a little annoying.
>Don't get why consumer shit isn't 19 inch rack mountable
Because they sell the rack mountable version for more. It's not complicated.
Because not everyone who needs a lot of fast and dependable storage also has one of these butt-ugly racks at home or in the office. Even an 8-bay NAS fist on a bookshelf easily
because a 19'' rack is literally made for enterprise situations, not consumer.
the entire reason why 19'' rack exists, is to cram as much hardware in as little space as possible, hurting airflow, resulting in 19 inch rack stuff almost always being extremely loud. Which is not a problem if youre a company and can put it into a specialized room.
quit the 19'' rack stuff at home, you're just doing it because you think its cool. but it's not, and its not ideal for your home.
Who actually buys an 8 bay NAS from a company like synology and qnap? Those companies are not professional grade but those devices will require professional grade prices.
I can understand buying a 2 or even 4 bay NAS from the usual suspects. But 4+ is far more economical (and just as easy) to build yourself or more reliable from the main server vendors.
>Those companies are not professional grade
QNAP atleast have ZFS, but yeah
> ZFS
Thank, I'll know to avoid them from now on
>BTRFS with "special sauce" is better than ZFS
absolutely fucking brainlet take
> BTRFS is better than ZFS
Yes. No idea what some sause has to do with it.
ZFS is garbage for home use
Elaborate.
mostly in my experience it cant gracefully handle bad sectors, it just shuts down the whole array. and i cant find a way to make it stop doing that. i dont give a shit about integrity of my japanese cartoons. let the disk explode for all i care.
You're fucking retarded. ZFS is all about data integrity. If you think that keeping a disk with bad sectors in your array is fine then ZFS is simply not for you. Just use FAT32 like a retard and loose your data when your hardware inevitably dies.
Fragmentation is not an issue for ZFS. This is not a Microsoft designed filesystem so it actually just works.
>You're fucking retarded. ZFS is all about data integrity. If you think that keeping a disk with bad sectors in your array is fine then ZFS is simply not for you. Just use FAT32 like a retard and loose your data when your hardware inevitably dies.
hence i said why it sucks for home use. i liked it for the ability to easily add / remove disks from the array, but the overkill on the data integrity front, and the lack of ability to remove it is fucking retarded.
>mostly in my experience it cant gracefully handle bad sectors
your experience doesn't exist. you're full of shit and retarded
i echo this guys sentiment. its fucking giga retarded that the way ZFS handles errors is to offline the whole thing. doesnt matter if its a prod database or cat pictures. if its so advanced let me decide what's the failure mode behaviour.
>zfs is bad because I use it like a retard
fuck off
even if that's the case it only strengthens my case. its not suitable for home use.
the whole point of zfs is data integrity. if you care about data integrity at home, then use zfs in a manner which allows it to do its job. being a retard and using zfs improperly doesn't mean it isn't suitable for home use, unless by "not suitable for home use" you mean "not suitable for retards" which is accurate
things can be more than one thing. or at least well designed things. being able to define failure mode behaviour isnt some arcane idea.
>zfs isn't suitable for home use, and here are the reasons why
>y-you're using it wrong!
classic open source cope
nta, but I read that zfs can't handle defragmentation. put me off from it completely
>Who actually buys an 8 bay NAS from a company like synology and qnap?
I would personally buy 5 or 6 bay for RAID 6 NAS. But 8 eh
>Who actually buys an 8 bay NAS from a company like synology and qnap?
With Synology you get more CPU power in the larger models.
I think most customers would be fine with 4 or 5 drives but they just want more performance.
And I think it's mostly businesses who buy them, not home users.
I do agree the prices get silly with the larger models.
Don't mind paying a few hundred for the software and easy of use, but it's not worth thousands.
I built my own NAS. Ain't using consumer grade crap. At least my home server has multiple duties instead of being just a file server
Build your own. That way your not lacking for raw power and ram not to mention data safety. ZFS and Raid Z2,Z3, or mirrors should be the defacto standard. Sure back in the early 00s you could get away with NTFS or whatever but that was due to data requirements being nowhere what they are now. Get a "error" in some file, hey restore it no problem cause the data in question was maybe 2TB total if that. Now? Uh yeah good luck with that with drives hitting 22+ TB and all. Do it once, do it right, enjoy your data, every single little file, till the day you die with no stress or worries that that photo of Jimmy when he's 2 can still be read in 50 years just as it was when it was placed on disk.
>Raid Z2,Z3
With ZFS + ECC ram, wouldnt RAID 6 be just fine too?
Z6 IS raid 6 anon, or at least a direct equivalent.
Oh. I see
>Z6 IS raid 6
Fail. You mean z2 is raid6.
>With ZFS + ECC ram, wouldnt RAID 6 be just fine too?
Yea exactly, works great. I run RAIDZ3 on my ZFS, then I run an crypted RAID6 on that, then another crypto RAID 0+1+0+1, then another layer of ZFS (RAIDZ2) on top of that. RAM is ECC, then I have a backup server that does ECC on the RAM because some guy said one time ZFS blows up if you don't have a secondary RAM ECC offload server.
*You're
Rackmount Synology is kino. That's what I call mine. Kinology. Yup.
>Rackmount Synology is kino.
But the CPU's in the rackmount versions seem (even) weaker that the desktop versions for some reason?
I considered one but paying double for worse performance? nah.
I got a QNAP one with a Ryzen processor and ECC memory.
I was able to pull the USB flash module off the motherboard and it booted from my external USB Linux distribution no problem.
>just build it yourself
I'd rather get something that just fucking works with ECC instead of needing to guess and hope that whatever bit error injection shit is actually working properly.
>I'd rather get something that just fucking works with ECC
Ryzen PRO CPU if you want integrated graphics.
Regular Ryzen if you don’t need graphics.
ECC RAM
Any modern AM4 motherboard. Most list ECC support in specs and list tested ECC modules in QVL.
Jonsbo N2 or N3 case.
TrueNAS
That’s all you need for an inexpensive and absolutely beefy and flexible home NAS that absolutely shits on your chink QNAP garbage. You also get PCIe slots and IOMMU as a bonus.
I have no purpose for a NAS I don't use a TV and I can watch all my shows natively on my pc and if I need to share a file it takes 2 seconds either by airdrop or google drive
How many backup drives do you have though? And how recent are they?
For me, that's the true purpose of a NAS - redundancy.
i build my own with cardboard box as a case, a 10 year old motherboard, and linux with samba.
My n40l is still going strong almost 15 years on. Only losers buy NAS.
my n40l died
t. loser
You used to be able to get them dirt cheap. I think hp dumped a fuck load on the market I remember getting one for like 130 bucks, added in a sata 4 port PCI card and a 5.25" bracket to 2x 3.5" and then you could use esata to SATA cable and poke it back inside the box. They were fucking beasts. CPU is a little old now but such good value
"söynology" rolls off the tongue a little better although I get it would be harder to shoop.
1. build yourself
2. optiplex shitbox
3. raspberry pi hackerman
4. Asustor ssdbox
.......
99999. Synology celeron subscribe to our cloud whoops hacked again garbage
t. put about 14tb drives into an old (i3, 16gb ddr4) gaymer box I had. Chucked openmedia vault on a spare old 32gb ssd and have slowly been transferring all of the files from about a dozen 1-2tb external hdds that I used to plug into the back of the tv for us to watch shit.
I bought 1 of these - https://www.netgear.com/support/product/SC101T.aspx
years ago - it's $150 paperweight.
Too expensive for what it is.
Literally should be 1/10th the price. Its not a full computer, its just a small low powered CPU with a small motherboard and few sata ports.
I have two enterprise Q because I'm lazy. Good hw, shitty sw and support. Works for me lol.
I've used QNAPs for work
>can't set multiple IPs on a network interface, need a script that runs on startup, doesn't always work
>running a script on startup is an hack itself
>containers often don't restart properly
>requires manual intervention to run fsck after a power failure, this also prevents all containers from starting up
It kind of works as long as you have an UPS
>It kind of works as long as you have an UPS
I could say for most NAS and Homelab
I have no UPS (fried mine) and so far there is no difference. Never even witnessed a blackout where I live.
Still having UPS just in case good idea. You never know
Fair enough. I just wish VFI ones weren't so damn loud. Or at least didn't check for fan speeds.
Don't need one
My 6 internal drive bays are enough
COBSON HWABAG 4EVA
IAS is better though
baba
NAS? NETWORK ATTACHED STORAGE?
Meme
build yourself a home server, have some section of it do the NAS shit and the rest of it can be awesome and rape
something like this?
which case, and where do I buy one?
also, how does it handle hdd vibrations?
It's on old Lian Li case that you can't buy anymore. Q26. Best modern alternative would be Jonsbo N2 or N3. Sadly Lian LI no longer makes good cases. They make ugly glass window shit for RGB fags now.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/wqs8TW/lian-li-case-pcq26b
https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Home_server/Case_guide
ok I just came a little.
should have used snapraid and xfs. ZFS always does something for no reason.
what's a good babby's first rack? babby doesn't have much space
Any good guide on encrypted ZFS backups, a whole setup hardware and software with differential backups?
Truenas scale is free. I run it along with Plex,Calibre-Web,qbitorrent, and kavita. Now I'll admit doing the switch from the old iocage plugin way to the newer container way is a bit of a learning curve due to the app devs not really putting out any detailed config guides. (Except for kavita, go figure) and also getting it all to work with SMB shares requires a bit of time. However once you sit down and get things lined out the whole system runs smooth as butter and honestly you'd never hear a peep out of it barring an alert e-mail. The downside; you can't just slap together any old computer. Nor should you frankly. You want a stable rock solid server then you should use parts made for such work (server cpu,ram,motherboard,etc). The only part you can skimp on is your case, long as it's got enough fans and bays, the case maters not. Rack style, desktop tower, mini tower, don't mater much. Aside; I use rsync for backups. Why? Cause then OS choice is wide open. You can send data from Truenas Scale to old freenas 8.3 box no problem. Why that old? Simple; backup dump boxes don't need much raw power to be useful. Long as the parts are server quality and its got the bays that's all you need for a backup dump box. (aka N40L's and those like them, small, low power but rock solid stable)
I just use a beelink with an N305 and an external drive bay and it works perfectly fine.
These nas enclosures are overly expensive. Like even a Synology 2 drive bay (TWO FUCKING DRIVE BAYS) is 200 dollars.
You can get a cheap office PC for that price and turn it into your proper home server.
They are good, but very expensive. Just too fucking expensive. The best brand is Synology. If you get one make sure it's not an enterprise or business line or they'll force you to use their proprietary drives to get SMART status. israelites.
Even better, goto ebay and pick any dell or HP server chassis and build your own fucking NAS. Put proxmox, or truenas, or openmediavauilt, or unraid on it. All great choices. Research lots and lots. Then lurk on /hsg/.
i just have an old phenom II x6 with an hd6970 and ~40TB of storage running nfs exports and all the *arr torrent shit.
does that count?
Yea. But that hardware is getting old. Time to upgrade.
i gave the x6 a new motherboard and power supply a couple years back. '20 or '21 i think. 16gb ddr3. 10gb fiber optic out, regular gigabit in.
the video card is set to fail before anything. all the voltage rails are fucked. 3.3v is practically nonexistant, 5v is is more like 3.7v, and 12v is down to 8 or 9. i was going to recap it, but i don't care enough to bother. i basically run it headless anyway.
for just a media server and torrent box, it's actually doing OK for something from like 2009 or 2010.
>losing voltage
Poor thing is on it's last's legs and you're forcing it to transcode furry porn practically 24/7. Jeez.
>on it's last's legs
nah. it's been like that for like 8 years now. it'll be fine. i first noticed it around 2015, which is why i bought a new comp in 2019.
>transcode furry porn
i swear it's just ordinary hollywood israeli mindrot .
I set up a company's server, which only requires a shared folder and backups with a synology nas like 5 years ago.
I've had no problem since then, even during covid they could do remote work using synology drive, so I'm pretty happy with it.
I don't care if people say that it's way too expensive, it was all incredibly easy to set up and it's been stable since then, so it's worth it imho.
I'd recommend it to everyone who either is not tech savvy or just wants to set it up fast and forget about it.
enter
Looks stupid. Way too expensive for what it is.
i use a synology nas as a target for my local restic backups and i regret buying it. it works and all, but it's a very shitty piece of hardware then the software is a buck-broken linux.
bloat for tech illiterate people
Not my cup of tea, but if you don’t have the bandwidth to set up your own NAS, then this is just fine.
I personally prefer OMV and TrueNAS, but, but that’s me.
The two schools of thought.
>I just need something for me and maybe two people
$300 single board PC from eBay, Ryzen probably, and two externals, both the same size. Rsync a backup about once a week.
>I am Google now.
Anything less than a full server rack is just playtime, kiddo!
You guys really need to understand just what you can do with even the most limited hardware.
I host Jellyfin, Kavita with all of Project Gutenberg and about 50GB of manga, Kiwix with a full backup of Wikipedia, 8TB of media, Nextcloud with six apps, Adguard and wireguard under the hood of a 6600U and it gets hosted to 20 different users and I never hear a complaint.
Don't overspend. No need for a bulldozer if all you need is a shovel.
Not using a $5 VPS for either situation is kind of retarded. Hosting stuff from your house sucks, you're essentially living in a super expensive data center then.
You can do a heck of a lot with modern pentiums even at under 10 watts, for personal servers theres hardly any need for high power systems.
It's one of those things where overkill hardware comes along with hardware that has alot of expansion.
Not many are under the delusion they need 32 cores for a home server but if you buy anything with some actual expansion your going to end up having an overkill cpu
I have a modest micro atx home server and it really doesn't do much but because I'm reusing an lga 1150 board it's nothing to put a $20 xeon in.
The people buying 4u storage servers just end up with 8+ core CPUs because it's whats included or they're cheap, even if damn near all the cores are going to be idle.
this is correct except you can also do rackmount with low TDP SoC motherboards. my home server is a 14W TDP Intel Atom with 48TB attached in raidz2 in a nice rackmount case
I have an r5 2600 i just got out of my old pc. Would it be good for building a nas? Just want a plex server or something to backup family photos and stuff
I use a pi as a samba drive with a 4tb ssd. It's OK. Only got a 4gb 4b though
coal doe
You guys using ECC ram in your Homelab / NAS?
yes, ddr3 ecc
This is my little Truenas setup; Its older hardware but for my needs it's solid so meh.
Supermicro x9 board, Xeon E3 1270v2, 32GB EEC ram, 6x 18TB Exos drives, 2x 40GB SSD drives (mirrored boot), LSI 9211 8 port 6gbps controller
>32GB EEC ram
which?
I have 32tbs of synology nas drives I stole from my last place of employment. No idea what to do with them though, since I've already hoarded anything else I wanted on externals I have laying around.
Just get a barebones chassis from ebay and fill it with as many drives as you can fit. Install truenas, openmediavault. Cheap file server and very easy to upgrade.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/134716030390
Does this support ECC ram?
it's a xeon chip. so yes
Protip, for any chassis you buy, always download the spec sheet to make sure you get the right upgrades. Also the server I linked comes with the hot-plug drive enclosures looks like, but not all do. Also some servers use SAS drives instead of SATA, which is another thing to watch out for - consumer drives are SATA.
I keep that in mind
99% of things compatible with SAS are also compatible with sata
But it's good to keep eye for this stuff too
Just build one urself I have a 20 tb HDD hooked up to a rockpi synced with both my phone and computer very low energy consumption since it only start syncing at midnight and then goes to sleep until next day unless I wanna watch or listen to doming from that library in my man cave
I use a simple 2 bay NAS. I just use to run docker, samba, vpn. Just werks for that.
1 HDD and 1 SSD?
>no redundancy
Sigh before covid jacked things up you could get server cases from newegg for 100 that were 12 bay and via an adapter for an extra 30 expand the bay count to 15. Wish to hell I snagged one then. But oh well.
I'm just glad Chia's fucking dead
NAS and home servers are LITERALLY for cucks
>Let me share my content with tyrone so him and my wife can watch my favorite movies
Which DDR4 ECC rams good for Homelabs?
nas coal though
For me it's Synology IAS thoughever
I have qnap and diskstation. Diskstation is better.
I use NAS becuase .... it just werx for years on end.
I have a disk inone that has been going since 2013 a 4tb one WD green hilarious.
I bought the cheapest qnap NAS I could get a few years ago for like $160, have a simple RAID 1 set up with WD red plus 8 GB disks, fits under my couch.
Store all my memes, media, data, etc. works good enough,
The only thing I would say though is maybe pay a bit extra and get one that supports an m2 ssd caching.