We went way too far with the whole “gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness” narrative
LULZ / LGBTQ
We went way too far with the whole “gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness” narrative
We went way too far with the whole “gender dysphoria isn’t a mental illness” narrative
He's right.
yea, the born this way rhetoric + medical rhetoric was by far the most effective and useful and also the one that actually has proof behind it.
>born this way
Where's the proof
what do you think the david reimer experiment signifies about the existence of innate gender
multiple studies have shown connections between hormone levels in the womb and gnc behaviour. also pre-hrt mtfs having brains which are, in specific areas, more female-typical than that of their cis male counterparts
https://pastebin.com/T5S0akVm
trenders were the worst thing to ever happen to trans people
>gendeez nuts homo
Gigs based, only proper response to tranny shit on my timeline
First, many people transition without experiencing or having experienced dysphoria.
Second, it's entirely backwards. It's a conflation of cause and effect. What originates is the desire to transition. The gender dysphoria develops from a realization of the delta between your current state and your desired end state. This creates immense distress. Gender dysphoria stems from wanting to transition; wanting to transition does not stem from gender dysphoria.
There's arguably a chicken-and-egg relationship, there, but gender dysphoria really isn't the primary driving force. If considered the root cause, that casts it more like a disease. In reality, it's nothing but a completely rational, normal, expected response to "the facts on the ground". The people who never experience dysphoria either were fortunate due to genetics or starting very early, or had a less strong desire in the first place.
The question of "okay, what is the root cause of the desire, then?" still remains, but the answer is: no one knows and it may be many decades or centuries before there's any kind of satisfactory answer to this.
>First, many people transition without experiencing or having experienced dysphoria.
those aren't actual trans people then
If someone takes HRT, changes their name, changes their pronouns, changes how they dress, voice trains, gets FFS, and now looks and acts like the opposite sex, what are they if not trans?
Transmaxxing is pretty common on this board. These are generally people who transition without having dysphoria.
Trenders are trans, as long as they're taking HRT.
>what are they if not trans?
Retards
Fetishists
Most transmaxxers do not have AGP or any other fetish like that. As far as I know, many or most of the people with stuff like AGP do actually have gender dysphoria.
>What originates is the desire to transition
also this is agp propaganda. gender dysphoria is absolutely the motivating cause for actual trans people to transition
[deleted post]
>If someone takes HRT, changes their name, changes how they address, voice trains, gets FFS, and now looks and acts like the opposite sex, what are they if not trans?
they are unironic skinwalkers
>also this is agp propaganda. gender dysphoria is absolutely the motivating cause for actual trans people to transition
I'm not talking about AGP whatsoever. Everything I'm saying applies to people without it.
>they are unironic skinwalkers
Or they're just people modifying themselves as they like. If you want to call them skinwalkers, I doubt they'd care. What's wrong with being a skinwalker?
(A skinwalker typically implies trying to mimic a specific person, too, which is actually weird. If you're not trying to impersonate a particular individual, it's not really skinwalking.)
Sounds like envy over their happiness.
Looks kind of like YikYak or one of those 500 clones.
>failed to address the fact that gender dysphoria is the root cause and motivation
ngmi, your lies are so obvious
Saying gender dysphoria is the root cause and motivation is like saying feeling shitty over not making the roster for some sports league is the root cause and motivation for training to be an athlete. The original cause is the intrinsic desire to become a successful athlete. The "dysphoria" comes from failing to achieve your goals yet.
You feel gender dysphoria because you want to transition. You don't transition because you feel gender dysphoria. Why would you feel gender dysphoria if you didn't want to transition?
>Why would you feel gender dysphoria if you didn't want to transition?
because being trans is a neurobiological condition, not a magical intrinsic desire. you are so full of shit it's unreal
As another example: look at the countless repressors on this board. Their gender dysphoria is probably worse than anyone else's. Why? Because they have a deep, long-standing desire to transition, and yet they're nowhere close to actually achieving it at all, for various reasons.
Damn I thought yikyak died , last time used it was in like 2015
>wanting to transition does not stem from gender dysphoria
no my dysphoria definitely came first and led to me transitioning lol
what is this bullshit lol
If you think back, I would strongly suspect what really came first is "I want to be a girl" / "I wish I were a girl" / "why couldn't I have been a girl" / "being a girl seems better" or something like that, no?
>because being trans is a neurobiological condition, not a magical intrinsic desire.
These are indistinguishable. A thing you want to do due to some neurobiological state is the exact same thing as an intrinsic desire. All intrinsic desires stem from neurobiological states and all neurobiological state-induced preferences are intrinsic desires. There is no magic involved in either case.
>neurobiological state is the exact same thing as an intrinsic desire
not really. "desire" only has meaning at a higher cognitive level. the motivation for transitioning is the feeling of wrongness that is caused by some incompatibility between the neurological structure and default hormones
this is why there are many cases of people feeling gender dysphoria before ever knowing that transitioning is a thing and why social transition is not enough - the correct hormones are almost always necessary to get rid of the physical sensation of "wrongness"
you have no evidence other than muh agp trenderinos are heckin valid
>the motivation for transitioning is the feeling of wrongness that is caused by some incompatibility between the neurological structure and default hormones
This is an assumption on your part which may or may not be true and isn't provable or falsifiable. It remains to be shown whether such a thing actually can even happen.
>this is why there are many cases of people feeling gender dysphoria before ever knowing that transitioning is a thing and why social transition is not enough - the correct hormones are almost always necessary to get rid of the physical sensation of "wrongness"
"The correct hormones" is a narrative that's very popular on reddit and twitter but it's still a narrative.
The stance you espouse here could end up being the correct one, but dropping all of my devil's advocacy stuff for a moment: in all sincerity, no one knows the real answers, here, yet. The reasons for someone feeling a vague "wrongness" before being aware they have dysphoria/want to transition may simply be that they don't feel like themselves because they know they don't want to be their birth sex but haven't yet come to the realization that they want to be the opposite sex. This seems similar to the notion of a discrepancy or incompatibility between neurological structure and sex hormone or receptor activity, but the two things aren't necessarily identical.
For example, I would postulate that if you were to secretly give a cis man estrogen and a cis woman testosterone, with something to block the hormones from reaching any part of their body besides their brain, it's possible most would not develop depression or dysphoria as a result of switching to "the wrong hormones". (Assuming there's no period where levels of both hormones are low.) It's possible they would, but I think it can't be assumed.
However, I acknowledge that your post may be completely right. I just think it's good to try to keep an open mind since this is a very immature field.
>a narrative that's very popular
because it's the correct narrative. if you told me that i could be a girl socially but had to revert back to testosterone i would unironically kill mself that same day
there is no "desire" to be female, i just am one and have to deal with the resulting hormonal discrepancy. if you don't understand that then it's because you aren't actually trans
>because it's the correct narrative. if you told me that i could be a girl socially but had to revert back to testosterone i would unironically kill mself that same day
Of course, because the desire to be a woman generally doesn't mean just the social role but having the actual form of a woman, which is only achievable by taking hormones.
I think the key experiment would be: imagine you were to take a drug that prevented exogenous estrogen from crossing your blood-brain barrier, so you were still taking estrogen and it affected all parts of your body except your brain, and it made you look and feel like a girl and altered your fat distribution and made your skin softer and caused breast growth and all that, and yet your brain were still running on the same testosterone concentration it previously had.
And to remove placebo/nocebo issues, let's say you knew you were taking the estrogen but didn't know it contained this brain estrogen blocker, and you had no idea about what kind of hormone exposure your neurons were getting. (It could be combined with a libido suppressant to reduce the chance of anything being noticed.) Do you know with absolute certainty you would still feel depressed due to your brain being on "the wrong hormones" despite the rest of your body being on the hormones you prefer?
Of course, such an experiment is impossible both due to being unethical and probably not currently scientifically feasible, but it's an interesting thought experiment.
>Do you know with absolute certainty you would still feel depressed due to your brain being on "the wrong hormones" despite the rest of your body being on the hormones you prefer?
yes
You don't, though. It might very well turn out to be the case, but the only way to know for sure is to actually perform the experiment.
I'm currently like 50/50 on it (in terms of what results one might see if you were to perform this experiment on like 100 people). I'm honestly not really sure what might happen. I just think it's good to not have any kind of certainty.
Yeah, my main issue here is the "medical/philosophical gatekeeping". I'm all for medical gatekeeping in the definitional sense - that is, you're not trans unless you're medically transitioning via taking or seeking to acquire HRT - but this kind of "medical/philosophical gatekeeping" where you must have this hypothesized brain condition which no one can prove they do or don't have in order to be trutrans, or must feel this certain way in order to be permitted to take HRT and call yourself trans, is really dumb.
Easily the most boring pos on this thead lol denying someones transness because they don't *describe* the idea of dysphoria the same way you do jfc
>t. trender
>you have no evidence other than muh agp trenderinos are heckin valid
Also, this is just dumb. Most so-called trenders don't have AGP and most people who claim to transition due to supposed AGP don't meet the "trender" definition.
>what is this bullshit
Extreme coping of a transtrender
I HATE TRENDERS I HATE TRENDERS
Wtf is this app
Gender dysphoria is an allergic reaction by dissident people to strict gender roles and expectations, not much else.
As much as you'd like to distance yourselves from non binary people, you're really not much different
Letting gender roles control you is retarded. I have an extreme aversion to my genitals and secondary sex characteristics that can only be explained as a debilitating mental illness.
well there was a hypnotherapist i found on YouTube that did past life regression on gay people are found that they had a parasitic soul attached to them that liked the a certain sex. he was able to remove the parasite and were no longer gay. if you think cutting your tits off or dick ect is the correct action then you are unintelligent nut case.
For the 100th time take your pills Alice
>you are unintelligent nut case.
>well there was a hypnotherapist i found on YouTube that did past life regression on gay people are found that they had a parasitic soul attached to them that liked the a certain sex. he was able to remove the parasite and were no longer gay.
I wish this were a troll but given the shitty grammar and spelling I'm pretty sure it's real.
you jest, but i refuse to get in arguments on here because a suprising portion of people on here believe that crystals have spiritual powers
Conservatives genuinely want the white picket fence house meme. Their entire ideology is clinging to "the American dream" which is not even socialized into immigrant families so I have no idea where the fuck they got this nonsense from. You're not entitled to a family. There is nothing more snowflaky than "I CAN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE WON'T FOLLOW THE RITUALS OF MY SEMITIC STORM GOD" you have your god and your books and I have mine and we'll see who gets sent to the abyss and who is saved. Above all, conservatives want a perfect order where people are their genetics and hierarchies are set up by god. I guess they will have to learn the hard way they are not part of "the beautiful people" and the god of this world is not their friend.