we went from "gender(not sex) is a social construct" to "sex is a vibe"
we went from "gender(not sex) is a social construct" to "sex is a vibe"
Falling into your wing while paragliding is called 'gift wrapping' and turns you into a dirt torpedo pic.twitter.com/oQFKsVISkI— Mental Videos (@MentalVids) March 15, 2023
you have to be blind to disagree with this
Tell that to biologists to treat biological sex as a vibe instead of defining male and female according to the casual processes that give rise to them
Intersex people exist. There are XY, XX and XXY people with functioning vaginas and penises. It's literally scientifically bankrupt to act like gender is exclusively binary. It's 'mostly' binary, with some exceptions.
This has literally nothing to do with wether people should be allowed to not conform to their birth sex. This is just a good faith scientific discussion in assuming.
That’s like using people with missing or extra legs to claim humans aren’t bipedal, these are deformations
No, it's like using people with 0,1, or 3 legs as proof that we can't just design societal systems that rely on someone having exactly 2 legs. Should we design everything for right handed people and leave the lefties to die?
"Humans are bipedal" is actually a shortening of "Humans are generally bipedal"
If you said "all people have two legs" you would be wrong
Humans are bipedal though you retard.
this is literally the definition of semantics.
I refuse to believe people are actually so retarded to hate the idea of transgender people because HURR DURR MUH DICTIONARY.
You realize people, especially on this board, will hate anyone and anything because 'hurr durr muh dictionary', right?
DEVINE AGP CORRECTLY RIGHT NOW
CHALLENGE LEVEL: IMPOSSIBLE
>there are people who deviate from the norm therefore sex is a vib
How about we categorize people as male, female and intersex? Most tranners are not intersex when it comes to their genetic makeup even though intersex people exist.
A few exceptions arising due to faulty processes doesn't suddenly make sex bayesian or whatever lmao
There's no other generalization as safe as this
Weird how I got two responses on opposite ends of the spectrum. I'll just say, yes I view some trannies as essential being intersexed because their is strong indication of GD having developmental origins in the research.
Personally I agree that 'sex is a vibe', which makes sense. Sex is a generalization that does not cover all cases. Trans people are an edge case and thus get treated differently by society, hopefully by being given gender affirming care and the option to assimilate into society as best the can as their identified gender.
Having the biological knowledge of how sex hormones work on the body we can actually induce an 'intersex' state as treatment. A transwoman may be XY, but still have many secondary sex characteristics of a phenotypical XX person. In this case they are very much like an XY intersex woman, and much closer to being 'sexed' as a woman.
So trannies who dont have those secondary sex characteristics are fake trans? So ur a truscum
They aren't 'sexed' female. Nothing wrong with people id'ing however they want. Obviously passoids will be read as female by more people than non passoids.
What I wrote is in the context of OPs post, which is about how gender is read 'automatically'. The reality of caring strongly about passing or not passing when you are trying to conform to the gender binary is something that not every trans person experiences and that's ok.
If you are asking me if non HRT trannies are 'sexed' female from a biological perspective I give you a 1-800-COMEONNOW.
Yeah, there's like a dozen different things you can use to determine "sex category" and Karyotype is a pretty shitty one because there are a bunch of outliers.
It depends what you're trying to determine. The most sensible to me if you're talking "biologically", as people love to claim to be, is to determine someones capability to provide the material for sexual reproduction.
Since we're talking about "Biological Sex", this should really be what matters. If you can provide functional sperm and fertilize eggs you fit in the "male" sex category, if you have functional eggs and they can be fertilized you fit in the "female" sex category, and if you do not fit into either of these you go into the "uncategorised" group because your "biological sex" has no function pertaining to sexual reproduction and is therefore irrelevant.
>Since we're talking about "Biological Sex", this should really be what matters
agree, there should be 4 legal biological sexes
>donor: donates genetic material
>incubator: incubates donated material with own material
>nurse: post-natal nutrition provider
>void: no sexual reproductive function available
Ah, yes, the classic intersex argument. Someone with 45 XO intersex chromosomes are not an additional biological sex for the same reason 47 XXY down syndrome is not an additional sex. All intersex conditions affect either the male or female developmental pathway, and it's simply not possible to make the "sex is a spectrum and not a binary" argument without including literal retards in your definition. Don't let the 'intersex' term mislead you into thinking it's possible to be between sexes; this is an archaic term that's since been replaced with disorders of sexual development, so understand that you're misappropriating serious medical conditions and attempting to argue that they're part of normal healthy development
I don't think anyone is claiming Men with Klinefelter's or whatever are a different sex, that's not the actual argument. Yes intersex conditions are confitions which affect the male and female developmental pathways that's not being denied. The argument is that those differences in development can often lead to outcomes where classifying the individual into one or the other sex becomes difficult. Women with complete androgen insensitivity syndrome are the classical example, they are technically males who, because of a mutation of the androgen receptor gene, develop female primary sex characteristics in the womb and female secondary sex characteristics during puberty, still, saying that they are "males", or worse "men", because they technically would be so if something didn't go "wrong" in their genetics is absurd. This is why the "sex as a spectrum" framework is useful, it allows you to address these nuances. The only way to define sex in a strict binary without being a redictionist retard is by defining it based exclusively on reproductive role, so gametes, which ironically is self defeating if you're a transphobe, if sex is exclusively defined by gametes, to the exclusion of secondary sex characteristics like muscle mass, you cannot argue that sex matters when it comes to things like sports, after all there is nothing that makes people who produce sperm inherently stronger than people who produce eggs, people who produce sperm simply tend to follow a developmental path that makes them likely to be stronger. Also, "healthy" or "unhealthy" are human medical constructs, nature has no intentionality, the only reason the typical "male" and "female" developmental pathways are dominant to the exclusion of other "disordered" pathways is because they are more likely to reproduce, that's it.
You conveniently didn't address any of my points and just went on a rant. If a 'man' can have a naturally developed vagina by what the body naturally produces the very idea of primary sex characteristics goes out the window. Obviously these are developmental disorders that are exceptions to the norm. For many trans people GD is also the result of developmental disorders. One type of intersex does not preclude another. If an XY intersex woman can have a functioning vagina and breast but cannot produce sex cells even if their 'DNA' is male (which is kind of a dumb thing to say) their actual physical sex characteristics are female. Doctors literally fuck up handling intersex babies all the time. It's not this clear distinction you are claiming it is, and are claiming that to protect your agenda.
oh sweet a post starting with
>ahh hmmm yess well you see
>*the most retarded shit you've ever heard*
autism is brutal
i don't think you understand what "spectrum" means. funny considering it seems like you're on the autism spectrum yourself.
Intersex people are variations of male and female, not some secret third sex. There are literally only two gametes that can be carried
And?? A trans person is also some variation of male and female. So is everyone. I don't see how it's relevant to 'sex being a vibe'.
You can't use the ability to make sex cells the basis of sex because there are completely infertile people who never in their life will make one. Infertile people can cleanly be sexed in one way.
You can't use genitals as the basis of all sex because both XX and XY people can have functioning genitals.
You can't use secondary sex characteristics because humans are very diverse and people will just naturally have wide hips as a man or go bald with a cromagnon brow as a woman.
You can't use DNA because genetically intersexed people exist and many intersex people don't even realize they are intersex for decades because they fit so cleanly into the sex binary.
It's very obvious when you learn even to a 10 grade life science level that there are going to be exceptions and edge cases to what is normally a binary, practically a binary. But it is objectively not a binary. There is no trait that is exclusively male or female. People can have both or neither of any of these traits, NATURALLY. If you are religious then God designed people this way. If you are a scientist you can observe individuals who cannot be cleanly sexed.
Sex is MOSTLY a binary, which is very practical for 95% of people. But that 5% are not going to cleanly fit, and that 5% requires to successfully assimilate into society is usually a very basic level of respect and courtesy and maybe some very cheap drugs. In extreme cases, corrective cosmetic surgery.
All social conflict in this issue could literally be resolved by just being a kind, forgiving and patient person.
>All social conflict in this issue could literally be resolved by just being a kind, forgiving and patient person.
The trans debate would have been settled ages ago if trans people universally were able to successfully look the part. It's politics based on aesthetics
I disagree. Some of the most vicious hate is sent towards the most passing trans people. This is why there are (admittedly psychotic) people who genuinely believe there should be genital inspections for shit like 8th grade basketball.
Ugly non passers are upsetting to transphobes, stealthily are instead genuinely terrifying.
biologists are lame ass niggas anyway literally the worst STEM degree
The good thing is biology is moving away from substance ontology to process ontology thanks to these lunatics.
they're not talking about biology, they're talking about the average person. how the average person reads sex is based on vague traits your brain reads subconsciously, not deductive reasoning. you don't think very hard when you sex/gender people.
Nta but if you look at the full thread she's talking about biology and blaming scientific institutions for trying to rigidly define sex too.
now that i think about it that makes sense too, another anon said "it's like using people born without legs as evidence that humans aren't bipedal" which isn't a fair comparison because intersex isn't a disability or deformation. that'd be like saying animals that are hermaphrodites are deformations. obviously having no legs would leave you at a disadvantage but being slightly inbetween the sexes would not. being intersex doesn't necessarily make you infertile either, there's plenty of cases of people with both ovarian and testicular tissue who can give birth or impregnate. i think all of these arguments would be very silly if at some point in the distant future, humans evolve towards hermaphroditism.
obviously true. keep coping
damn that's crazy i wonder how those causal processes are consolidated into a single unity, i wonder if it might be through fuzzy logic and indiscrete categories
>A few exceptions
exceptions which inform us about the nature of biological sex and how it's not reducible to binaries or spectrums
>it's another example of ugly hons saying dumb shit in pretentious language
passes as middle aged uggoid though, not really hon
though would like to see how bad it's without makeup
I've seen vomit shapes that have more intellectual value than this
>sex is Bayesian
What they're describing is not Bayesian. It's a fine enough point ruined by trying to sound smart.
Idk what the girl said but she's a 10/10 tbh
She makes me sad because she's a 10/10 girl and I want to be better looking and smarter and she's so perfect
>Sex is Bayesian, not axiomatic
The anti logic dumbasses are at it again
At this point just call everything subjective.
>nooo you have to put everything into black and white boxes or you're a schizo
>noooo you need to be attracted to me, bro, it's a fuzzy line
I don't understand what she means but sex is also a social construct
She was jacking off to tranny porn when she thought of this
Do you think this girl would make out with me
Yeah I've seen her naked and I wasn't trying just follow and interact with her on Twitter.
She seems like the perfect person to me ... Maybe I'll make a Twitter with an anime girl because she's really really perfect to me
Just use your actual human face like a normal person and become one of her reply girls. This is how like 30% of t4t relationships begin.
I don't want to use my real face I hate social media
Well you'll do better if you do. You don't have to you can just have good posts
I legit think she's beautiful
Then talk to her
Maybe... She'd probably get weirded out if I made account just to say hi..
Do you think she would like me
Yes, unironically. Implied in the statement "gender is a social construct" is "however sex is biological and not a construct". The redpill is that both of them are constructs, it's just that magic authority science men constructed the "sex" one hundreds of years ago during the renaissance or some shit and you don't question the base assumption.
Intersex people challenge the idea that sex, like gender, is also a social construct for a bunch of physical characteristics we have agreed are male or female. They have surgeries forced upon them to fit them into the sex construct. You can take hormones or have procedures to change those characteristics from one to another until you basically have to become a chromosome fundamentalist to justify a vibe for an imagined "sex essence", which is obviously retarded.
anyone in this thread pretending gender or sex are real please explain to me why straight men are attracted to femboys, and gay men are not.
gender is obviously a social construct, but sex is definitely has biological rootings that can fit on a spectrum but is absolutely still grounded in objective reality
to answer your attempt at constructing a conundrum, its simply that separating attraction into same sex vs opposite sex by society was the most retarded way of doing it.
androphilia-gynephilia spectrum encompasses this: straight men are attracted to femininity by default and femboys obviously make a point of coming across as feminine as possible, while gay men are repulsed by femininity. if you think gay men would be attracted to someone whose whole personality and sexual strategy is centered around accenuating femininity, you're just regurgitating the idiotic same vs opposing sex attraction concept that society clings onto
okay but at that point what's the purpose of the concept of sex? like which useful distinction can you make that isn't just "where among the bimodal distribution of human flavours do you exist"
oh I agree, the only real purpose of sex is in specific medical situations where it does matter, but socially, it doesnt unless for strictly reproductive capacity lmao
>gender is a social construct
can we stop with this retarded meme? if you could just "socially construct" dysphoria away, trans people wouldn't exist.
Gender identity and gender aren't the same thing
I mean it IS all in your head. Your perception of yourself, just like anyone else's is subjective and not objective. That doesn't mean that your perception of yourself being separate from your physical self makes wanting to reconcile the two any less valid.
money is a social construct and yet it still matters. dumb take. gender as a social construct explains, for example, why some things are intensely dysphoric to one trans person and not at all to another.
>but that removes my transmed argument for trans acceptance!
they tried to push the transmed argument and anti-trans reactionaries still don't care. they don't think it's necessary, and they don't think GD is real. they have an agenda and an ideology and when they look for arguments they are not doing so in good faith
just because gender dysphoria manifests in everyone differently, doesn't mean it's entirely socially constructed. i've had dysphoria since at least age 8, and i'm 100% sure i still would even if gender roles didn't exist.
you managed to conflate gender dysphoria, gender, and gender roles within one sentence. anyway, the interpretation that you wouldnt be dysphoric (or that transitioning wouldnt be valid) is not actually held by gender abolitionists, so theres no need to rail against it.
normally i use "gender" to refer to gender identity rather than gender roles.
i hate how people think gender abolitionists are anti-transition or think that dysphoria isn't real because not a single ga i've talked to has ever expressed that sentiment, in fact most of them are dysphoric and trans themselves
Yea it's really annoying. A lot of GA adopt enby identities because gender is observably toxic and get flak because they don't change their presentation. Don't haters know you can be comfortable with your body end sympathize with others needs too right?
Why do hons try an act like other hons are not ugly hons? I can see your five-o'clock shadow a mile away.
It's true. Biological sex doesn't exist.
this is exactly why I'm against post-op trannies. If biological sex doesn't exist, then you don't get gubmint moneys for wanting different sex equipment. Say you're a woman and stop whining about the medical system then
sex is binary, expression of primary and secondary sex characteristics are bimodal. it's both incredibly simple and extremely complicated at the same time
The problem is when people evaluate some no-effort hon’s sex and think to themselves
>hmm, that person may be wearing women’s clothing but my brain still clearly registers them as male, so I guess they’re male
and so said hon goes
>WAIT NNNNOOOOO YOU EVALUATED WRONG!!!!!!
I am a transwoman and I have never understood acting surprised when you don't pass. Trans people read gender the same way as everyone else. You look at someone and your brain puts them in a category. It's very rare to meet someone actually of ambiguous gender. If you get someone's gender wrong it's not a malicious thing. I mean it can be plenty of people hate trannies but most 'misgendering' is just how humans work. Oh well, correct them and move on.
>sex is Bayesian
What the fuck does this even mean?
My best guess is that she thinks that someone's sex is immutable but you might lack to necessary information to determine it.
We evolved to understand literally everything that way. Literally everything is a vibe.
this person doesn't know what bayesian means and as a biologist, this is an incorrect viewpoint.
This is where the wild Transbian (former chaser) says something stupid about biology so other transbians will accept her as a real trans woman, not an evil cissoid.
Quite obvious this thing is larping as an anon complimenting itself and posting it on twitter. You're fucking ugly
Omg she noticed me?!? UwU I'm kinda hot my heart is literally fluttering rn
did you dm her yet anon??
nooo I prolly won't I saw the comments on her thread on Twitter and I'm wayyy to shy for that... Maybe later she's smart and pretty
absolutely should dm her though anon
she said so!
way too nervous but I can admire from afar and think about her...idek what she's saying but I like smart pretty people
well i think that's a bit disappointing, she explicitly invited you to dm her and i think you really should, but if you dont want to that's fine too!
you dont need to apologize to me, im just some random anon
you and her are the two people missing out here, im just looking
she has so many popular pretty girls after her I'll just hold her up on a pedestal in my mind she's amazing
I'm going to DM her instead and pretend I'm you.
Do it coward
Also leave her alone pls she's an angel
this legit made my day I hope Cassie has a good night <3 so pretty..
SEX IS THE GENDERING OF THE BODY
>sex is bayesian
new Eliezer Yudkowsky quote just dropped
Yes keep hyper analyzing and defining everything to the tiniest fraction and then make non contradicting rules to give it legitimacy. That's not crazy at all. Fire up the trans hadron collider at once
This is my first visit on /LGBT/. It's my last one as well. Stay healthy folks. Have fun with going through your dialectic phase in life. This man single handedly birthed our modern world illness yet only time will pull you out of the Aufhebung.
oh him yeah he's a bit silly