what's the verdict on Transmission oil change?
i keep seeing videos of mechanics recommending a change at every 60k miles but at the same time they say it can damage the transmission and it might cause problems in the long run.
what's your experience with an oil change?
transmission drain+fill is generally safe in all of them
transmission flush can be sketch if your transmission has been abused and holds nasty bits, since you can flush them into places they aren't supposed to go.
No oil change is fine if you are leasing, don't care, or hate used car buyers and yourself.
see, two different answers few minutes apart. shit is confusing.
In a 300,000km shit box the only thing stopping your old seals from leaking is clogged up old thick oil. New oil would be too thin since the tolerances are all fucked.
They aren't.
if you have never changed the oil in an old automatic, all the friction material that used to be in the clutch packs is floating around in the fluid. changing fluid now would remove all the friction material and the burnt transmission likely will not shift very well if at all. If you change your fluid regularly it better preserves the clutch packs and this won’t be a problem. What is so hard to understand?
If you think your transmission "died" because you changed the fluid, it died because you made it go 3X-7X the distance on the same fouled ATF that should have been changed 150,000 miles back. Your old automatic on ancient ATF works in spite of gunked up high viscosity ATF not FROM it. That shit needs to flow and swirl through the gears and torque converter like intended, letting it get old to the point it's the consistency of room template butter, earwax, or blue cheese salad dressing isn't doing your transmission any favors. This isn't 1958 anymore where you need some gritty gunked up old ATF to keep the car from leaking it all out.
Yes that’s what I said
I've heard too many chuds IRL swear ATF changes killed their transmission and then you get on them for details and they are like "well yeah it does have 175k miles on it and it was shifting rough and took a few seconds to get into Reverse...." I'm glad you understand it how it really is.
I am that chud, I ain't changing it on a used vehicle with over 125k on it. I do have a reman 4L60e waiting when my current one shits the bed though
Change the ATF every 3 years/30K miles in the reman one after you install it you'll be ok from then on
I do oil every 3rd-4th engine oil change. The oil itself still brakes down it just doesn’t need to be changes as much as you nots getting contaminated from combustion like engine oil. That’s just for manuals don’t know about autos though.
>Changing tranny oil
>In a manual
Nice bait
Do you change oil in the diffs?
>what is manual transmission fluid the post
Not all manuals use gear oil.
if the fluid is burnt or high mileage you're fucked and changing it will do more harm than good
if it's lower mileage and comes back as a tinge of red/pink on a white paper towel you can change it
It gets old and spent like any other car fluid, Anon I changed the ATF in picrel last Sunday and although the fluid on tje stick was all nice and purplish as I drained out more it became darker and more sulfury smelling. No matter since I poured back in a gallon of brand new ATF+4 because Mopar. Car drives better than it ever has on new ATF even at 21 years old and 180,000 miles
Even light brown fluid can safely be changed
>if the fluid is burnt or high mileage you're fucked and changing it will do more harm than good
if you have some retarded mechanic that flushes a 200k miles gearbox + resets adaptation values...
Just drain it, fill it back up and you won't have any problems whatsoever. If you want to "flush" it just change it 2 or 3 times, with filter change after the first drain.
I saved a high mileage 4L80e with black, burnt fluid that literally would not engage into gear by doing ~3-4 drain and fills along with dumping some Lucas snake oil in. I've also owned multiple automatic Hondas that slipped like crazy over the years and the same regiment of drain+fill and snake oil for good measure has made every single one drivable.
Transmission shops love the "don't change transmission oil, it'll break it" meme since shitty, broken down oil will fuck up a transmission far faster. No, that old burnt oil with used detergents and shitty viscosity is not "holding things together"
>If changing your fluid kills the tranny then you either did it wrong or it was already a dead man walking and was ready to let go any day.
Yeah, pretty much. GM's transmissions specifically call for fluid changes every 50-60k, half of the normal interval for "severe use" cases. I'd say the majority of driving people do would be considered severe, and I'm convinced transmissions like the 4L60 only have a bad rep since people never touch the oil, beat on it, then wonder why it breaks.
Many owner’s manuals say not to even do it. If there’s a manufacturer’s recommendation, double it, if you’re keen on maintenance and triple if you’re lazy.
If it says lifetime fluid that just means replace when the warranty ends
>Many owner’s manuals say not to even do it.
Ah yes. The life time of the transmission fluid scam.
My owner's manual recommends to change it.
Do I do it? It's a manual transmission.
yes
Absolutely there is no harm in it with manuals. Manual transmission gear oil is there strictly for lubrication. Manuals don't have the same worry as autos the major difference is the oil is not essential for the mechanical operation of it, it would work with no fluid just not for very long before it overheated. In autos fluid pressure is essential for operation and they will flat out not function without fluid.
What typically happens with autos is if they go for a very long period of time without a fluid change a lot of clutch material accumulates in the fluid. Those pieces of material in the fluid will help clutch packs still grab in a transmission that otherwise would probably be slipping. That's why it's not uncommon for unmaintained autos to start failing shortly after a fluid change. If the fluid is so far gone that it's black and burnt your better off just leaving it and planning for a transmission rebuild/replacement eventually.
>The latter is easier to fuck up and some manufacturers (namely GM) plainly forbid the use of external pumps.
Yeah this pretty common. My last and current daily were both Acuras and Honda does not recommend you ever do anything other than drain and fill. I also had the fluid on my S65 changed last year and they only did a drain and fill with a filter replacement. Ironically Mercedes used to claim the 5G tronic trans were fill for life but eventually went back on that because they had a bunch of problems. Hell I had mine go into limp mode on the highway and had to get it towed. From what I saw from codes and from what the dealer said a solenoid for 4th gear got stuck and the car went into limp because it was seeing the wrong gear ratios. Car only has 70k on it so I can imagine what kinda issues people with 100k+ on that trans have. Thankfully those trans still have a drain/fill location unlike some "fill for life" trans that need to have the case split to change fluid.
>Do I do it? It's a manual transmission.
so? do it. It cost me like 20 bucks to do it on my old E46, it shifted much better because the fluid was never touched.
Never flush. Drain and fill will be ok unless your transmission fluid is basically black. No returning from that. May as well ride it till it blows for good
>don't flush
>drain
Isn't flushing my toilet and draining my toilet the same thing?
When they flush a transmission they use some gritty absorbent powder to mechanically scrub the innards of the transmission. Being a gritty/abrasive solid medium it's not supposed to stay behind to make way for all new ATF. Shade tree mechanics don't get it all out and then fill back up the ATF and basically the transmission is running around with sand in itself which basically is as damaging as it sounds
And I assume draining is simply the transmission equivalent of a good old engine oil change?
Yes it works the same way. Gravity lets all the ATF out same as on a motor oil change
I suppose I'll go ahead and just get that tranny fluid drained now rather than later. I was going to get it done in about 20,000 more miles, but I think I'll just move that up to now. I already did the oil change 2,000 miles early, so this will be nice before I get new tires. Thanks, frens.
Yeah its a lot easier than you'd guess. The main thing is putting in as much as you drained out and getting the correct variety of ATF for your car.
Flushing is sticking a hose inside the transmission and sucking out all the fluid from the transmission, this however might cause problems because the new oil might not reaching every cranny.
Draining ks the good ol' method.
i thought flushing was hooking the tranny up to an external, high pressure machine and then forcing fluid through it with that. that's what causes/accelerates problems.
the best way to flush is to use the tranny's own pump; pop off one of the hoses going to the AT cooler in the radiator and lead it into a bucket or container. Start the engine and fill with fresh fluid as the old stuff gets pumped out. This is only possible if you have a dipstick tube however.
it's worth noting that there will still be a lot of fluid in the torque converter, so it'll take several changes before most of the fluid eventually gets replaced. It's very easy to do however, compared to flushing it like above.
Correct but most ATF changes factor for this. My Neon in the other pic holds a good bit more than 4 quarts/1 gallon of ATF in itself but specifically says to change but 1 gallon/4 quarts at the change. I wondered this myself too but that is just what Dodge themselves said for a '02 Neon ATF change. I used my fluid extractor from the dipstick hole, I drew off one gallon of the current ATF and then pulled out the hose and with my funnel poured in the gallon jug of fresh ATF+4. My car drives a lot smoother and easier now from gear to gear and changing modes eg Park to Drive, Drive to Reverse, Reverse to Drive etc etc
This is what I did to a 08 trailblazer. Took of a cooler line, shut off engine at first bubble. Significantly improved shifting.
Drain/fill means the old fluid goes out by itself from the pan, and you pour new fluid through the filling hole.
Flushing usually means the fluid goes in and out with some help, like an external pump or the transmission sucking and puking the fluids by itself while the engine is running. The latter is easier to fuck up and some manufacturers (namely GM) plainly forbid the use of external pumps.
Yes. But you replace only part of the fluid at a time (only what's in the pan and it's vicinity) and basically dilute old fluid with new, so you have to do that two-three times and drive the car between the replacements. A good idea is to replace the filter once in a while, if that's easy to do.
I just did one in my car I've had for 2 years. Totally worth it. Car doesn't shake at idle, it changes modes and goes through the gears much smoother and faster than it ever has. Keeping the same ATF stopped being a thing 40 years ago. Don't buy into the boomer/fudd superstition
For autos its must but depends if tranny is good condition it will keep it that way if not it will become unusable. Changing my zf oil every 100k km
The concern with fluid flushes is it tends to disturb sediments that have settled in the system, which can commonly do one or two things
>expose a leak or failure point that was being blocked by sediment
and
>can move sediment into new places that can cause blockages or excessive wear
I had it happen to my impala where I had the fluid flushed, and then a transmission cooling line started to leak. What had happened is the line was never installed properly with the right metal gasket, sediment in the transmission actually blocked up that connection enough to keep it from leaking, while allowing fluid to flow normally.
So when it was all cleaned out, suddenly it leaked.
Now that’s not really a bad thing, it exposed a problem that was then fixed, but really it didn’t do anything for the transmission besides expose a leak. It otherwise performed the same.
The worse outcome is the sediment ends up where it shouldn’t be (which is ideally nowhere in the transmission but specifically the gearing) and can cause rapid wear and failure.
So generally speaking, fluid drain and refill is recommended, unless you’ve been doing consistent transmission maintenance from the factory. But that is excessive, to avoid any sediment buildup would be changing your transmission fluid every time you change your engine oil. That’s just not necessary and it’s generally better to just let it do as transmissions do, and build up sediment in quiet corners.
Change automatic transmission fluid at 50k miles. Change CVT fluid every 30k.
If you wait until 120k miles, the fluid will be full of debris and will have already damaged the transmission. If you change it after waiting way too long, the garbage fluid you take out will be thicker than fresh fluid and the transmission might slip. At that point you add some snake oil fix all bullshit and pray for the best. As long as you change it at regular intervals before the damage is done, an automatic transmission should last 300k miles.
I did a trans guild change on my VY Commodore with the 4L60-E. It had 360,000km and to my knowledge was never changed. We dropped the oil, changed the filter, cleaned the sump and slapped it back together. 30,000km later and not a single issue. Definitely worth doing.
If changing your fluid kills the tranny then you either did it wrong or it was already a dead man walking and was ready to let go any day.
>or it was already a dead man walking and was ready to let go any day.
Back in the day it was change it regularly or just let it die.
Old rule
Red, change it
Dark red, change it
Brown, change it
Smells burnt, change it.
Black, should have changed it 50K miles ago. Change it.
The only time you might not want to change it is if the fluid has a lot of suspended material in it.
This 'slurry' of clutch material and fluid may be the only thing keeping the transmission from slipping. Once changed out there is no more clutch material and the trans will slip. Trans was already dead on its feet, now you just know that it was fucked.
Old trick to make a trans that used Dexron, but was slipping, work. Change out the fluid for Type F.
Brought a few shitboxes back from the brink so some broke ass mofo could keep driving til the trans flat out died.
Would not recommend doing that 'trick' on anything from the past 20 years, Psssages and clearances are tighter, Type F might not work, or cause damage to expensive parts.
change it like every 50k miles, only reason a trans fluid change would cause problems is if your trans mission is already very worn out and needs rebuilding soon.
change it, it's very important.
Especially automatic transmissions have a big conflict, on one side you need the friction plates to transmit the forces, but the wear of the friction plates rubs inside the bearings.
If you don't change it you will increase wear.
I am changing it every 50k kilometers and the gearbox shifted slighty better after each change.
did my trans and rear diff today. manual only says to "inspect" at 60K but wtf is the point of inspecting of you're not supposed to change it at some point? glad I did because there was a ton of debris collected on the drain plug magnet
Here’s a video of ZF at a trade show unapologetically shitting on BMW for advertising “lifetime fill”
My Honda Fit says change the tranny fluid every 50k miles. It doesn't mention the filter, but I changed that also. Seems fine for a car or SUV.
Trucks that haul a trailer need their transmission fluid changed every 10k miles or as others have said like every 2-3 oil changes.
so if my automatic truck is at 250k miles and I don't know if/when the transmission fluid was changed should I do a drain/fill? OP is right though there are literally multiple answers in this thread.
Check the quality of the oil from the dipstick. If it’s black or burned, you shouldn’t change it since it might damage the tranny. If it’s reddish brown, change it. If it’s bright red, the fluid is new; no need to change.
How many times have you changed your tranny fluid
1
>If it’s black or burned, you shouldn’t change it since it might damage the tranny
I don't get this logic
People in this thread explained this: black/burned fluid means there are big problems; if there’s damage, it’s possible the church material in the fluid is what prevents slippage in the first place.
>if it's broken, don't fix it
I guess this is one area where lazy boomers and incompetent zoomers would be on the same page
Every 30k miles drain and refill. Avoid any flush.
If it's an auto, drain and fill every 50k miles. If it's a manual that you don't beat on, change it with a clutch change I guess. I've only done one transmission fluid change one time on purpose at 150k miles on a Ford expedition. All others have been side products of fixing leaking transmissions on classic cars.
My wife's car with a Nissan CVT is at 91k miles on original oil and I'm scared to change it at this point. Was gonna do it at 70k miles but the dealership refused to do it stating that the fluid was fine. Just haven't gotten around to it since then.
The car manufacturer might call it "lifetime fluid" but the fine print is your car's lifetime, to the manufacturer, is your << warranty which is typically the 5yr/60k mile warranty.
The transmission manufacturer will usually have documents with intended service intervals, which should include temperature/driving severity charts. This may or may not be in your owner's manual.
Some transmissions like the Chrysler 62TE will practically require a 30k fluid change when used in truck, high use minivan, or a sporty typed car driven like an ass often, to maintain maximum lifespan.
Some transmissions like an old ford AODE might suffer no noticeable problems after 150k miles of regular commuting/lifestyle useage.
Also, you should always change the transmission -filter- with every fluid change, and clean out the pan magnet (or fucking add one if it doesn't have one). Yes, this means a pan drop, which means a new gasket and/or new liquid gasket sealing. Who cares it's going to be $15-20 and an extra 5 minutes.
Aside from fluid changes, modern electronic/shift control auto trans also have a main pressure regulator solenoid, torque converter lockup solenoid, and rarely the line pressure transducer that are/could be wearout parts and should be swapped at 100-120k miles to -prevent- damage.
Beyond that, if you've taken good care of an automatic as above, assuming you haven't beat the piss out of it and worn out stuff like dog rings, friction rings, and other shaft power transmitting parts, the only other things that should eventually be replaced -to PREVENT damage- is/are the actual shift solenoids/shift valve bank.
I would say look into this at the ~150k mark, which is generally when I've noticed irregular shift patterns and overhard slam shifts under high power.
You do all this, you WILL easily get an automatic that lasts 300k. Easily.
Lastly, change all four engine/trans mounts inclduing torque mount if FWD. Worn mounts cause misaligned engine/trans, causes probs
i don't have a lift