>trans women and men
>MTFs and FTMs
>trans women are women and trans men are men
Can we stop doing this?
By saying trans women first and trans men second, you are revealing a sort of subconscious belief that trans women are men and trans men are women. You are treating them that way.
>but the idea that women come second and men come first is patriarchal!
So?
We live in a "patriarchal" society.
So, it isn't the transgender person's fault for interpreting this as you implying that trans men are the secondary gender = women and trans women the primary = men.
It is your fault for saying something that could be hurtful given the context thoughever.
have sex
holy cope, imagine being this moronic and fragile
FINALLY SOMEONE WHO GETS IT
>ladies first
>ladies and gentlemen
>save the women and children
wtf are you talking about women come second?
>ladies first
Not what I'm talking about.
>ladies and gentlemen
Naming convention based on syllables. Every other list of genders is men first and women second.
>women and children
Children is not a gender. We're talking about genders.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahAHHahahahaHAHAJAHAHA
Honestly women and children is fairly accurate to how most liberals see trans women and trans men.
holy frick so many psyops about ftms today we cannot catch a break
he's right though
it is a little sus when people always write trans women and men
Not to me. I see them flipped pretty often, and I mean, one *has* to go last either way. It's not a big deal.
t. Ftm
2nd from the top on the right is me
It’s the transgender person’s fault for taking offense to a factual statement
Saying trans woman is no different than saying black woman or blind woman. If you take offense to being called what you are you need to work on your internalized transphobia.
You're confused on my point entirely.
Saying "trans women and men" is implying that trans women are men and trans men are women.
You should say "trans men and women" as to not accidentally imply that trans men aren't men etc.
Oh ok you’re trolling. Rog.
>internalized transphobia.
This is what I have extremely bad case of I don't know what test you're using but I'm sure I have much of a phobia about being discovered as trans and wanting to be cis
It's not bait. Please stop acting and speaking like trans men are the secondary gender (=women) and trans women are the primary gender (=men)
he's not wrong though
Ok, fine. How so?
people always say men and women, boys and girls, dudes and dudettes, guys and gals, etc. so when you say mtfs and ftms it is a little hurtful because it sounds like you subconsciously mean mtfs = men etc
I suppose I could see that, but it's not quite like you're making it out to be. I honestly hear "girls and boys" just as much as "boys and girls", and as someone mentioned earlier "ladies and gentlemen" is also pretty common. I also hear a lot of people mention ftms first. I simply don't think that there's anything else behind it, even if it would be subconscious. Like I said earlier, one has to go first and one has to go last. It just doesn't seem like this holds a lot of weight to me.
yeah and if you put ftms first then it's "le patriarchy" and "transmisogyny"
see how it can be twisted either way?
See the OP
>So?
>We live in a "patriarchal" society.
>So, it isn't the transgender person's fault for interpreting this as you implying that trans men are the secondary gender = women and trans women the primary = men.
>It is your fault for saying something that could be hurtful given the context thoughever.
had to read this over several times to get what they meant
don't see the point in refuting your own proposed argument in the OP, at that point why even make a thread
Ngl you gotta point
Why are they all goving me the 'frick me eyes'
idrlabs(.)com/internalized-transphobia/test.php
post results and letters
>t. mtf
t. ftm bi
t. gayden
ftm, pre hrt
we need to abolish whole idea of male and female. It's outdated queerphobic pseudo-science
Great bait, but I’m not hungry rn
>"GLBT" vs. "LGBT" autism all over again