I have been learning the MERN stack over the past month and messed around with this fat whale for a while. It suffices to say that it will save you hours of messing around with conflicting dependencies and permissions. Lesson learned, don't fall for LULZ memes.
Yes
Anybody who hates docker and k8s has never worked on a very big project
>conflicting dependencies
i don't think i've ever had this happen
you can make massive projects using managed services without docker
You can, but k8s and docker give you a lot of stuff for free you'd have to reimplement.
the benefit of managed services is that you don't need to implement a lot of stuff you would do manually with kubernetes etc. It can end up being cheaper too than a manual setup. Using Azure SQL is cheaper than running your own SQL instance in a docker container for example and you don't have to worry about updates or any of that stuff and you can change anything you need with a couple of clicks
I don't hate it, I see the use and I've used it for what it's good for.
I just don't enjoy it. It's not stimulating and makes me want to do something else for a living if that was the only way to run services/piece systems together.
>I just don't enjoy it
This. As someone knew to all this, it also seems to make people lazy as fuck with documentation. Which is useless to me because I'm interested in learning.
>knew
Whoops. Blame it on my phone.
same, all this DevOps stuff (k8s, docker, terraform, anything that involves fiddling around with config files for hours) looks incredibly useful but boring as fuck, it almost makes CRUD webshit look fun. I don't care about how much value it brings to my boss's boss's boss if it's so boring makes me wanna blow my brains out. thank god for dedicated DevOps teams, I don't wanna touch that shit ever again unless I absolutely have to
This.
I dislike that software is just being released as a docker image instead of providing adequate/detailed/any documentation as to how the system is actually setup and working. It will lead to de-skilling mark my words.
>It will lead to de-skilling mark my words.
I think the hope is the skills being lost are being obsoleted.
>de-skilling
what skill? you can't be serious if you think setting up software is a skill
Clearly it is, otherwise Docker wouldn't need to exist.
The instructions on how the system is set up is in a convenient file called Dockerfile
why are you lying on the internet?
> I dislike
>why are you lying
Gaslighting thread.
Is right
Is wrong
yes and I even use docker in my personal setup to isolate some processes and run only specific programs through a vpn
>unemployed
it's already known that docker has not only taken over companies, but it's best places of use is in the home in the personal space. people who don't use docker at home are literal retards. this is already known. it's a skill filter. you know that you're dealing someone very very low intelligence and low skill if they are anti docker. watch them reply to this post and seethe like crazy. it's because they are very low skill and can't even see that they are. that's dunning kruger at work. they are stuck on mount stupid for all eternity
But why I should desire something that required root? At job, of course I must use the standard, but my home?
>he doesn't know docker can run rootless
>he doesn't know about podman
>he just doesn't know
>he can't use search engines
>he's stuck on mount stupidity forever
>he doesn't know I use podman
I prefer KVM/QEMU using raw disk and reflink.
>wasting resources on vms
>need to maintain packages
lol why
>some workloads required complete isolation
>some workloads just need containers.
Idk, tell me what tool fit my needs.
docker has both, numb nuts
>using raw disk and reflink.
reflink is for copy on write
what are you using it for?
>adding more complexity to a home machine is mount stupid
my network coomer stash is not the same as a thousand corpo server racks
>docker is complexity
>a yaml file is complexity
>installs things on bare metal like a moron
>dirties up his file system
>zero isolation
dunning kruger anon is fighting his way up mount stupidity, will he make it to the summit?
>>a yaml file is complexity
Non-programmer Anon, I...
please tell me what is complex about yaml, moron, i can't wait to laugh
>10 chapters
>dedicated errata
>just for the core schema
>non-programmers think this is fine and normal
>key value pairs with 2 space indentation is impossible!!!!!!!
severe skill issue
>MERN stack
Meme. You do you, tho.
Midwit take. https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/reference_appendices/YAMLSyntax.html here it says some items are bool and others are not k:v at all.
>ansible
anon, we're talking about docker, did you know this?
> YAMLSyntax
Please. I hope you will be able to grasp at least Docker.
not sure what ansible has to do with docker. anyway, do you use a yaml linter? i sure hope you do, fucking moron
If you need a linter for your markup language, you have already failed.
all markup languages have linters you fucking unemployed retard LOL
Yeah, for extremely complex files. YAML needs linting for even trivial files because it's one of the most retarded languages ever conceived.
>duhhhh i'm not ganna lint my commit
>breaks the build
>everyone stuck because you're an idiot
>idiots! you shouldn't need a linter!
moron
i use docker every single day, so the question is why are you such a giant homosexual? please tell us why
Yaml is literally the most complex markup format by far.
Sure you can definitely write simple babby yaml files that use 0.0001% of the features but YAML files can get extraordinarily complex.
If you think writing yaml files can get extraordinarily complex try writing a parser, It's a nightmare.
>try writing a [college 3rd semester project] its a nightmare
dude fuck outta here
I did try writing one before, that's how I found how that the spec is fucking HUGE.
Needless to say, I gave up on writing it and switched my project to use JSON5 instead
>docker uses yaml
jesus christ, why would you possibly think this is a desirable thing to point out?
>he can't answer the question
dunning kruger can't climb the summit of stupidity kek
>unpaid intern continues to spout the epic reddit different opinion buzzwords
>dunning kruger is a buzzword
there's no way you're this stupid, it's just not possible
>unpaid intern continues to spout the epic reddit different opinion buzzwords
do you even hear yourself?
> you're dumb because you're dumb
Watch out, big brain in our midst
wtf am i reading, shill post?
Nah, docker is basic 101 junior dev babby shit now. THIS filters the unemployed.
Why would I use that on work laptop/my server?
you wouldn't, retard, it's not for that, but you could if you wanted to
Chill I know, I was checking if somebody will actually tell me it's useful in one device env which is overkill
it's not overkill all, but it's overkill for what you're trying to do i bet. minikube is a great tool, it's just minikube start to start a single container cluster, perfect for home use
Thanks anon
do 99.99% of the companies using this actually need it?
great question. a lot of them use k8s just because. Like do you really need load balancing and shit for your 5k visitors a month website?
>do you really need load balancing and shit for your 5k visitors a month website
Obviously not. But you might operate more than one website. You also might not want to manage snowflake servers. Managed Kubernetes clusters makes deployment easy, and there are great development environments like kind and minikube.
neet here
i run a bare metal k8s control plane on my $50 homeserver with laptop and gaming pc nodes
In my last job people ran some integration test on bare metal that required installing full os which would take 3 hours (really, not exaggerating). Docker allowed me to run the same test in less than 30 seconds.
I think it is good for testing.
I know docker/kubernetes quite well but am still unemployed so no it does not filter me.
Companies don't use either Docker or K8s directly, you aren't deploying onto metal in 2023.
Idk man I've seen a ton of companies asking mandatory Docker knowledge
you're clearly unemployed and haven't been in the tech job market for the past 10 years. you can't get a job anymore without it. so, why would you lie on the internet like this? it doesn't gain you anything
>dunning kruger is a buzzword
there's no way you're this stupid, it's just not possible
>blocks your path
>blocks *your* path
I run my shit with podman and systemd
Galaxy brain
Straight out of my able ansible template. Very comfy.
>not liking yaml = unemployed
kek this board really is just NEETs calling each other NEETs
Dislike something doesn't mean you don't use it at work or recommend it.
I dislike Windows, but recommend it at work. It seems you're a child.
why would i recommend something i think is objectively terrible and an impediment to people who have actual shit to do? that seems rather mean
>yaml is too complex!
ok unemployed neet
can you devbros like..... stop learning about all this docker and kubernetes shit? I don't want to go back to programming
thanks
regards,
your devops guy
devs are retarded, but LULZ undergrads are even stupider
LULZ Likes to rant and rave about many things but, working in large orgs it is a mixed bag. At my current org you can request any of the following and we have well developed procedures for doing it as well as possible.
> bare metal servers. only things that really truly need isolation or maybe be noisy-neighbors. Changes are on your own cadence but if it's an important service there are standards you need to adhere to and prove.
> unmanaged vms, curated base images you as a team can spin up and have 100% control. Changes on your own cadence.
> managed vms, dedicated sysadmin staff for maintaining/upgrading/deploying/oncall support. Changes go through a number of managed systems with *mostly* rigid controls on when they hit what.
> kubernetes as a service/platform as a service, some massive fucking huge k8s clusters. Actually built and managed across all of the above options.
imagine thinking yaml is hard. LULZ is loaded with retards that think this. they've been filtered, they don't have jobs, and never will. eternal jobless incels
I use it to wrap up the gay little python scripts I find on github, so they dont vomit shit all over my system
docker run -rm -it -v (pwd):/app python3 bash
Docker is a necessary evil. It's the White Man's solution to modern hindiware.
Is's the only way to write code in python without polluting your filesystem with python garbage.
Just use venv?
venv is better for python, docker is used for deployment. the anon you're replying to doesn't know what he's talking about. i think he's a docker and python newb
Kubernetes, fine.
Docker is ass though.
Nix is a better way to build OCI images.
docker is fine, all companies use docker now, and docker compose is awesome for home use. nothing you can do about it. keep seething though. you WILL reply to this post crying about something, watch
>all companies use docker now
no
>docker compose is awesome for home use
When I work on an app I’ll deploy in a kubernetes environment, I use minikube without docker, because docker is unreliable and buggy. I usually develop each part in nix, and use nix to build the OCI image. Nix is much better than docker-compose. Anyone can update a remote image and break a previously working docker-compose configuration. Not so with nix.
>no
yes, nothing you can do about it
>because docker is unreliable and buggy.
lol, no. why would you lie on the internet? makes no sense.
>nix
don't care, nixpedos are the most annoying group on this entire board. nix has nothing to do with docker, fucking kill yourself as soon as you can
>yes, nothing you can do about it
You’re claiming there’s not a single company not using docker?
>why would you lie on the internet
The docker issue tracker is filled with reports of completely broken dockerd installations. There are many, here’s just one: https://github.com/docker/for-linux/issues/1191. There are two types of docker users: Those who have used docker in a serious production environment, and those who have never been bitten by a bug in docker. I don’t like using software that constantly breaks.
>nix has nothing to do with docker
Nix can create OCI images, and docker can create OCI images. Given the prevalence of Kubernetes, I suspect the majority of Docker users only use docker to build an image to run in Kubernetes. But nix is a much better OCI image builder. Dockerfiles depend on different distribution’s package managers. Eventually, distributions end-of-life a release and thus break existing Dockerfiles. Distributions also mistakenly update to new versions of software that are incompatible with software managed outside of the distribution. All of this makes it hard to reproduce an image from a Dockerfile. When you try to modify an existing app, you may discover you can no longer build the docker image. Nix avoids all of these problems.
Docker != containers, and it’s the worst technology in the space.
>You’re claiming there’s not a single company not using docker?
nope
>The docker issue tracker is filled with reports of completely broken dockerd installations.
works flawlessly for me, you must have serious skill issues. honestly, i don't trust you if you can't install something as simple as docker. you must be retarded.
>nix
don't care. nothing to do with docker, get a life you stupid nix autist homosexual. you post in every fucking docker thread, you're pathetic. go back to your containment thread, homosexual
>works flawlessly for me
It’s 2023 and docker users are still saying works on my machine
correct, because it does. if it doesn't it's a skill issue on your end. LULZ is full of retards, no amount of good software will fix that. the nixpedo posting in this docker thread and everyone single docker thread has serious skill issues that he's too stupid to fix. nixpedos are super autist retards that must fucking kill themselves immediately
>if it doesn't it's a skill issue on your end
Blame the system, not the user
>the nixpedo posting in this docker thread and everyone single docker thread
Why do you assume there’s only one nix user pointing out that docker sucks at what it’s designed to do?
Why are you so angry?
>Blame the system, not the user
nope, this board is mostly undergrad retards that don't know anything, stupid high schoolers, and drop out losers, all which know nothing about technology. your replies alone show that you're a moron, you're aren't worth discussing anything with. all nix autists are morons, kill yourself
Wow…if this is how docker users think we should probably stay away
>i don't like this guy so the technology he uses must be bad
this is how a child thinks
It’s more like, this guy has severe brain damage and blindly defends a technology, so perhaps the technology has inflicted brain damage.
nix sucks, get over it homosexual
Maybe, but not as much as docker
>nix autist and golang goyslop eater trying to out-shill each other
Only ever used docker with portainer.
Other than using cli to install docker a UI is a lot nicer.
nixpedos butthurt, been replying entire thread and every single docker thread. can't stay in his containment thread lol
i haven't looked into it. why is it better than using venv?
it isn't, you can use either, but docker provides a completely portable method that allows the other user not to care about installing anything. venv is more on metal but other people need to install the pip shit, which is easy if you're not a complete retard
1. venv doesn’t handle non-python dependencies well. How do you handle the case when a package depends on an external library or binary? There are often differences between your development environment and your production environment. For example, different libc versions. This can break some packages.
2. requirements.txt/pyproject.toml don’t lock dependencies. This can cause breakages when you deploy to new environments if you incorrectly specify dependencies, or if a dependency breaks semver.
interesting. if i ever have an issue i'll look into it.
checked.
Docker is shit and yaml is fucking retarded garbage. It just encourages shitty, lazy, retard programming and it really doesn't reduce complexity. If it did, then container management tools like portainer wouldn't be popular.
In my niche of the industry, the only thing it's being used for is containerizing retarded C binaries that were compiled in the late 90s and have loads of retarded dependencies. Instead of corpos actually taking the time to develop a modern version of some piece of shit software that they lost the source for, they just containerize it and call it a day. Still just as retarded and shitty to work with but now docker is layered ontop of the pile of shit. Great.
> it really doesn't reduce complexity
kek this, there's literally new jobs created bc they need to hire programmers to manage that entire new layer of complexity (containers) they added
Never used it seriously, I guess I don't have an use-case for it yet.
But it seems pretty damn handy.
>dependencies and permissions
It's sad that you have to learn a complicated bloatware layer to deal with such trivial self inflicted problems.
>bloatware
yep, it filters the unemployed
its just fucking annoying and boring
its just an endless cycle of changing config files
oh i forgot that we are behind a proxy!
wait for it to build
oops i forgot to install cowsay in my image
wait for it to build
damn cant use ubuntu 22.04 image because obscure library was removed from the repos, gotta use ubuntu 16.04
wait for the to build
...
Docker fanatics are peak midwits. They think they're smart because they're 10 IQ points above the $5 VPS apt install webshit stack idiots, but they can't comprehend that Docker is as a matter of fact NOT the be-all-end-all solution they were told it is and that there are much better options that don't inherit the complexity of containers while achieving many of the same end goals.
like what?
>inb4 hurr durr le ebin ad-hoc bash script with chroot
Ad-hoc scripts don't have the standardized management tools containers have.
>service isolation for security
systemd
>installing packages without dependency hell
functional package managers
>both
combine both
Ah yes of course, I'm gonna use systemd to run CI/CD on my OS matrix, hurf durf
>b...but you don't need containers if you're using only NixOS
Cool, but my customers don't. It's an imperative world.
>so team, how are we gonna deploy our high availability services
>UUUUUUUH SYSTEMD
Having a working... anything... within 20 lines of not-even-code scares the unemployed.
>This filters the unemployed
>several anons seethe posting nonstop
>filtered the unemployed just like it says
it really does filter the unemployed, kek
docker is literally
>builds only on this one pc
>debug everywhere
Docker Swarm rocks.
https://dockerswarm.rocks/
>I know Docker, Kubernetes and OpenStack
>unemployed because all devops positions require previous profissional experience
it's over, fuck this gay market
I just don't understand why we need it for all this crap.
At work right now, we have 1 docker container on our development machines (macbooks) and all it does it host a Postgres DB for our local environments. That's it. We even use docker compose to manage that 1 container.
Why not just have Postgres run bare metal? We already do that with the front and back ends.
Maybe my team is retarded? I'm still in my first year and they all have at least 5 years of experience, so I end up assuming they know what they're doing most of the time.
What happens if you want to update Postgres versions, but the new version is incompatible with your laptop software?
What happens if you want to upgrade your laptop software but the upgrade is incompatible with Postgres?
Wouldn't those reasons apply to the thousands of npm packages we have and all the java spring stuff too? Shouldn't the app itself be in a container? Why would you do it only for the DB?
>Wouldn't those reasons apply to the thousands of npm packages we have
Not necessarily. If none of the NPM packages contain native code (which is likely) then they do not depend on any of your system software besides Node. That's only one thing to manage. Ditto for Java.
Perhaps the app isn't in a container locally to simplify debugging and IDE integration.
I recently learned ci/cd with Jenkins. My app has a Dockerfile that's being built by Jenkins.
Is sending the built image over to k8s the proper way to auto deploy? I ran into a snag when I realized the Jenkins doesn't have root privileges to deploy a container. (I could make it a super user but wondering if there's a more proper way to auto-deploy docker images)
You can just add Jenkins to the docker group, no need to give it sudo privileges, in it?
That's kind of shitty security either way, but having rooted docker is bad anyway.
Is there anything to "learn" about this that can't be quickly googled or GPTd?
I learned all this stuff for my home server and then realized I didn't really need any of it
I'm employed and don't know how to use docker. I just copy shit from a wiki page
I just realized docker is basically Java.
the amount of seethe in this thread is amazing. come on ni/g/gers, y mad because docker isn't a time sink?
if it works in my container, you pull my image and it'll works in your container too. it's that simple