The whole system is controlled and maintained by the Inner party. But what the hell do they get out of it?

The whole system is controlled and maintained by the Inner party. But what the hell do they get out of it? Their quality of life fucking sucks, their society not only doesn't produce new technology and pleasures but actively works to suppress them. They are not aristocrats living the good life, their quality of life is lower then the 1950s salary man. They are not interested in conquest, the war is primarily used to control the public. They gimp their own ability to fight and produce by turning their population into retards. And the management process itself doesn't seem satisfying; you're managing animals (proles) and pencil pushers (outer party).

It doesn't seem like that there is secret district where the inner party gets to enjoy all the cool shit like real books, movies, and fine dining. Isn't the whole point of establishing yourself as the elite class to have a really kick ass life?

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    bad book

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine how they'd reform the party.
    Now you have your answer.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Imagine how they'd reform the party.

      "Uhh guys. Maybe we should have our neurologists not rewire OUR brains to avoid having orgasms. Also let's not burn all the books and movies because otherwise we're going to be bored with nothing to do all day."

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Man, the book isn't meant to be the ultimate guide to political philosophy, it's meant to be a fairly interesting musing and warning on a certain kind of a society that seemed possible coming out of WWII. The entire premise is basically "what if James Burnham's Managerial Revolution was a novel". To some extent, the silly contradictions and impossibilities in "worldbuilding" are intentional, because he wasn't writing Game of Thrones, he was writing a little idea novel. To the extent that there's anything interesting in the question, it is the question in because it makes you consider how some societies can lock themselves into unreformability - which is just as good a critique of capitalism, incidentally, which is also locked into its own unreformability loop: money is power, and everyone who fails to bust their own ass while mercilessly exploiting the workers goes out of business, so it's impossible for anyone to ever be "a good businessman" - instead you get people like Musk who are locked into working 80 hour weeks, for what? The USSR comparison also hardly needs to be drawn, the system was so rigidly built that one Gorbachev saying "hey let's relax some small constraints" totally collapsed it within a span of months, leading to quality of life collapse and all that shit.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        >it makes you consider how some societies can lock themselves into unreformability - which is just as good a critique of capitalism, incidentally, which is also locked into its own unreformability loop: money is power, and everyone who fails to bust their own ass while mercilessly exploiting the workers goes out of business, so it's impossible for anyone to ever be "a good businessman" - instead you get people like Musk who are locked into working 80 hour weeks, for what?

        In a capitilist society people at the top a) don have enjoyable lives b) if they did they could just stop working and do whatever they want since they are rich. Musk is working 80 hours a week because he ENJOYS making his stuff. If he wanted to do something else he could just sell all his companies and take his billions to do whatever he wants.

        In ANY hierarchy the people at the top have comfy lives. It's why they fucking maintain the hierarchy.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Imagine how they'd reform the party.

  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because they nipped nepotism in the bud by grooming kids from the outer party to become part of the inner party. It's directly said in Goldstein's section of the book. The inner party aren't any more free than the outer party, they have harder expectations of ideological purity and are more fanatic.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means, it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Power would be keeping everyone down so they can drive luxory cars, eat lobster, wear expensive clothing, and have their own personal video game studio that makes games just for them-- inbetween conquering other lands so they have room to build bigger mansions.

      They are infact dimensioning their own power. They have less power then a 1950s every man.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You're thinking along the lines of a hedonist normie. There are RL people who will kill or torture you for the sake of it; we call them psychopaths. The Inner Party is basically Plato's Republic, but make all the philosopher-kings these kinds of people.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          The leaders of Plato's republic were given the most luxurious lives of all since they literally got to anything they wanted for free. Pleasure is part of the human condition and all ruling classes have been hedonists. You think any King, whether philosopher or not, are not consuming the finiest luxuries every single day? I am not a "normie" I am a non-autist.

          Nobody would want to be an inner party member. They have tasked themself with making life as miserable as possible for everyone including themself and there is no greater purpose for this misery other then to maintain itself. The Nazis inner parties wanted to have a thousand year empire that was cooler then Rome. The Soviet Inner Party wanted space colonies. The ingsoc party want nothing more then to make the world scarey and give super villain speeches for the purpose of spooking the reader.

          Would YOU want to be an inner party? Would anyone in the world? NO. So why the fuck would they even make the stupid system to begin with? The inner party members would KNOW that their life is worst then an every man in the 1950s.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >The leaders of Plato's republic were given the most luxurious lives of all since they literally got to anything they wanted for free
            citation needed

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              I'm not going to spoon feed you basic information.
              Just look up the caste system on google. The Philosophers do not pay for ANYTHING, Plato thought this was how they would not get bribed, by making them be able to obtain everything they wanted without question.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >Nobody would want to be an inner party member.
            every midwit in the Outer Party dreams of being in the Inner Party

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      id forgotten how dumb this book is

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The leaders of Plato's republic were given the most luxurious lives of all since they literally got to anything they wanted for free. Pleasure is part of the human condition and all ruling classes have been hedonists. You think any King, whether philosopher or not, are not consuming the finiest luxuries every single day? I am not a "normie" I am a non-autist.

      Nobody would want to be an inner party member. They have tasked themself with making life as miserable as possible for everyone including themself and there is no greater purpose for this misery other then to maintain itself. The Nazis inner parties wanted to have a thousand year empire that was cooler then Rome. The Soviet Inner Party wanted space colonies. The ingsoc party want nothing more then to make the world scarey and give super villain speeches for the purpose of spooking the reader.

      Would YOU want to be an inner party? Would anyone in the world? NO. So why the fuck would they even make the stupid system to begin with? The inner party members would KNOW that their life is worst then an every man in the 1950s.

      Power is simply the ability to control. Ruling classes throughout history have used it for the self-aggrandizing purposes that you describe, but the Inner Party are explicitly a group without historical precedent. Their regime represents the final evolution of inhuman totalitarianism, and they are themselves inhuman.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        You defined power as the ability to control. But the inner party kills it's own members if they exercise that control for doing anything other then maintaining the system. The system is designed to remove power from EVERYONE including the people who make and maintain the system. And they are doing this for the sake of doing it. It's retarded writing.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      >The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
      Maybe power is just the Orwell equivalent of adrenochrome or some other kind of bullshit like that. But even in the most unhinged backwards far left or far right conspiracy theory the people in power want power for an additional reason. Wanting power just because is really retarded and ruins this book.

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    It's religion. They're just Christians.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    all the workers were conditioned to believe that their living conditions were okay since the very very dominant ideology was blind loyalty to the party. they worked in the inner party because they loved the party itself.
    brave new world is popular and all but i wish bnw was more popular than 1984

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      (too lazy to delete and repost)
      just remembered that there were actual proles that didn't like the party. by workers i meant party workers. proles and the ending were the only good parts of 1984.

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    1984 is a horror story for midwits, and unfortunately they ruin any discussion of intrusive surveillance by going “it’s just like 1984!!!”

  9. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >But what the hell do they get out of it?
    This is what I constantly think when I consider the actions of today's elites. What is the point of wealth if everything is shit?

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The based globalists age working hard to reform society, even they know it’s very unsatisfying.
      As for Musk working 80 hour work weeks it’s because he’s a visionary, no amount of money would motivate a man to bust his ass like that, he’s a captain of industry that wants man to go to space, that’s what really drives him.

  10. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Winston is just a bureaucratic cog that's not supposed to see the whole picture. He's an unreliable narrator in that way, and whatever the aims of Ingsoc are are kind of outside of his grasp. Just like how telegram operators in Nazi Germany didn't think too much about Nazi propaganda and just clocked out for home after their shifts or whatever.

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