>North London trans woman took fatal overdose after waiting nearly five years for appointment at gender clinic
>Sophie Williams, 28, overdosed two days after she was told the years she had spent waiting for an appointment in Belfast would not be recognised by the clinic in London
>A trans woman who took a fatal overdose had been waiting almost five years for a Gender Identity Clinic (GIC) appointment, an inquest heard. Sophie Williams, a 28-year-old activist and artist, overdosed on prescription medication two days after she was informed that the years she had spent waiting for a first appointment while living in Belfast would not be recognised by the GIC in North London.
>An inquest found that NHS failings contributed to Sophie's death and that more should be done to provide mental health support for trans people as they wait for access to GICs. Toby Attrill, a friend who was also speaking on behalf of Sophie's partner Rupi Bond, said he hopes for change so other trans people aren't stuck on "seemingly endless waiting lists to access life saving care".
“as they wait” not “eliminate wait time”
terf island ngmi
oh come on it’s quite clear they don’t consider our healthcare on the same level of legitimacy as the stomach
I had to wait over 5 years for a diagnosis of a brain condition because of waiting to see a particular specialist, waiting times are generally shitty in the NHS under the Tories unless you have cancer, or if you go private. It sucks it affects trans care too, but it affects everyone.
GPs can prescribe HRT here, it's just a bit of a tightrope walk for them so it's easier to refer to a specialist. I think with a retraining program for GPs you could have a more similar system here, but that requires having enough GPs and in general the money and resources to do it, and that is not forthcoming atm.
This is what terfs want. The desired outcome.
They laugh about it. They are evil people
requiring "specialists" for mental health issues is basically the government saying they dont think the issue is real. "gender identity specialists", "adhd specialists", its all made up to make sure as few people get treatment as possible.
This is the most retarded take I have ever seen. Do you think gastroenterologists are also frivolous? Where do anesthesiologists fit into this paranoid schizophrenic delusion? Ear. Nose, and Throat specialists? Cardiologists?
im sorry that you have dyslexia and i am sympathetic to your plight. however, if you read more carefully, you can see that i said 'mental health issues'.
>its all made up to make sure as few people get treatment as possible.
Yep, society can't be arsed to help mentally ill people, its much easier on the precious normies to just let them all suffer
Normies would be furious if any gender treatment became available on the NHS. They would argue that 0.3% of the population were why they lived in poverty and demand the government throw us in prison instead
In spain you can just speak to your GP. The ten year waitlist for both treatment and a GRC are a disgrace. I cant legally obtain a GRC, you need a 'specialist' to diagnose you, that can take a decade.
Bottom-rung take. The real way they make it impossible to get treatment is by gatekeeping access behind as much bureaucracy as possible, in addition to not giving a fuck about their approach to care. It's all cookie cutter, one size fits all bullshit in the end.
They purposefully make it as difficult and fatiguing as possible to engage in care to dissuade people from using it. Chasing up appointments/specialists who forgot about you, sitting in waiting list purgatory with inadequate support, chasing your GP for referrals, being referred back and forth between different teams. Only to be turned away for frivolous reasons at the last moment. "Therapy interfering behaviors", lack of engagement and individualized multi-modality care, it's not the system who's broke, it's you.
you are essentially agreeing with me
requiring a specialist = extremely long wait times because theres like 5 specialists in the country. oh, this clinic closed down, now your wait list position is reset.
if a gp could, or would, prescribe HRT then there would be no issue in the first place. it is not a particularly dangerous treatment, nor is it very complex. informed consent is all one should need for hrt
Kinda yea, I realized after I pressed send there lmao, sorry.
I don't necessarily believe specialists are a bad thing in theory. In terms of understanding the breadth of things such as specific pharmacology of drugs, patient edge-cases and how to approach treatment towards such, etc. But that's naive unfortunately, a best-case scenario in which these people and the institutions they serve could be trusted appropriately.
But yea you're right, it's two pronged. Only the specialists can advise on and give access to treatment, and those specialists are then gatekept behind years long waiting lists and impossible bureaucracy. Reality is, all they're needed for is specific edge cases, something that could easily be worked around if a proper set of guidelines/frameworks were put in place regarding treatment.
So she's been on the waiting list since she was was 23 back in 2018? Maybe she should've got up off her lazy ass and got on the list the day she turned 18 back in 2013. That's what I would've done if I were trans the second I turned 18 I would've gone and done it not her though she dawdled around for 5 fucking years until she was 23.
Hey retard, have you maybe considered the possibility that it might have taken her until she was 23 to realize she was trans? You victim blamers are fucking disgusting, eat shit cuck
Go look up what the late Sophie Gwen Williams looked like I got a big shit eating grin when I did.
>"b-but she's ugly"
If that's not an argument for DIY HRT I'm not sure what is. Big oof.
Its a nice name
This is horrendously awful and the treatment of trans people in the uk will go down in history rather notoriously, so I genuinely don't mean this as an excuse for the NHS's failings, but why not self medicate? Why waste a decade plus aging as a man instead of taking matters into your hands at some point?
She probably either didn’t know, or thought it was too dangerous. This is why anti-DIY people are so evil. Either you’re pro-DIY and believe in bodily autonomy, or you’re anti-DIY and believe on some level that the government has a right to control what someone does with their own body. Never let anti-DIY people pretend their position is harmless.
I mean the risk of committing suicide is pretty high too.
Most people dont know DIY exists. I didnt. Its too late for me, i got the best results possible but testosterone is poison. Most people simply dont know.
See but I don't get how you could wait for years and years and years and be horribly distraught about it to the point of an heroing, and yet not spend like 30 seconds googling if it's possible? I kind of have a hard time believing someone could be in this situation this long without the thought ever crossing their mind. To be clear I don't mean to place the blame on her, it's not her fault the NHS is entirely failing trans people.
I work as a suicide councilor and you'd be surprised how retarded people are. Most of the time I'm just googling support resources for people because they're bad at Google or don't think to look harder
>I work as a suicide councilor and you'd be surprised how retarded people are. Most of the time I'm just googling support resources for people because they're bad at Google or don't think to look harder
great counselor calling your own people you're supposed to help "retarded", you are supposed to be the resource.
I tried to google DIY. It said on google a little pre selected blurb saying "estrogen requires a perscribing physician and i thought i would get in trouble and get arrested or accidently killed myself if i did it illegally.
If you grew uo beibg bullied and gaslighted and sent to conversion camp you cannot understand that you can just get HRT via informed consent. People have been telling you that you can't your whole life. I personally didnt even feel like an adult at 28. Autism, adhd, anxiety, depression, drug use, all play a role in not understanding DIY.
It was omly after more than six konths of private medical care did i have the comfort and sense of hope to self advocate. I was a wreck before that, breaking down in appointments and therapy sessions. I had been in treatment for psychosis. It is very hard dealing with being trans as an ptsd afflicted repper in the system.
Most trans people don't know diy exists, if you don't already know it does then you wouldn't know to google for ways to buy hormones because you wouldn't be able to conceive of the notion, especially in a country where you are psychologically programmed into not being able to imagine a paradigm outside of the current system of your society
If that's how you feel, why aren't you spreading awareness?
>Sophie suffered from psychosis and had a diagnosis of emotionally unstable personality disorder. Her symptoms became more severe after she moved to Tottenham from Belfast in July 2020 and she was experiencing dissociative episodes during which she had previously self-harmed and taken overdoses.
>She died on May 20, 2021, two days after she was "devastated" and "raging" by the news that the Tavistock GIC would not recognise the time she had spent waiting for an appointment in Belfast. After hearing three days of evidence in North London, Assistant Coroner John Taylor concluded that when she took the overdose she was in a state where she was not capable of forming the intention to take her own life
>Assistant Coroner John Taylor concluded that when she took the overdose she was in a state where she was not capable of forming the intention to take her own life
????? INSANE conclusion
I hate this shit so much. If someone chooses to kill themselves it's a choice, not a disease. They weren't killed by some fictitious DSM bullshit.
This is it, really. In my honest opinion it greatly diminishes the suffering that someone who chooses suicide goes through prior to making that decision by sort of posthumously "robbing" them of executive ability. "Actually they were just sick, they couldn't of decided to commit suicide". Insane rational. Acknowledge the situation they were in was so inhumane they made a decision to take their own life, of their own accord.
that requires acknowledging that society has failed her completely which is why the system fails to do so
Yeah and it shows with how their intended „solution“ is more mental health care during the horrendous wait times. It changes literally nothing if you don’t work from the assumption that trannies are all fundamentally mentally I’ll and our treatment exists just to satiate some delusion. They wouldn’t be suggesting it if they thought gender dysphoria was actually a real thing, instead they would actually try to fix the wait times
On some level, I don't even care if being trans is considered a mental illness, that still makes their solution shit. They fling around the term "mental illness" like a slur, without knowing anything about the complexity of how actual mental illnesses are approached. As far as I know, some guy talking shit in a room has been shown again and again to be nearly useless for treating this particular "mental illness" while hrt has far better outcomes for quality of life. TERFs don't know shit about the psych field either, there are definitely cases where doctors "give into the delusions" of the patient if they are otherwise resistant to psychotherapy and antipsychotics, and just letting them believe makes them much happier while harming no one. TERFs and chuds like bringing up people who feel strongly about not having limbs, yeah guess what, if nothing else works, the doctors permit the amputations.
All this putting aside that antipsychotics are useless for gender dysphoria, so it isn't in the same family as the above conditions discussed. But even for their pet example "what about those people who really want to be disabled" they literally get to be by medical professionals.
The issue is this: the establishment know full well that hrt assists gender dysphoria more than anything.
The reality is, they don't care. They want to maximise pain. There is no study, no amount of research that will chang their mind, because their position isnt an intellectual one. Its an emotional one, that emotion is hatred.
If 50% of tranners suicided publically tomorrow, and every pre-eminent, respected doctors in the world said that the NHS and the British government was directly responsible, they wouldn't care. In public they would lay lip service to such a 'tradegy', but behind the scenes they would research why the other 50% didn't also suicide, and then take steps to maximise that number.
They want us dead, there can be no conversation, if terfs were reasonable, they would be open to reason, and thus no one would be a terf.
>If 50% of tranners suicided publically tomorrow, and every pre-eminent, respected doctors in the world said that the NHS and the British government was directly responsible, they wouldn't care. In public they would lay lip service to such a 'tradegy', but behind the scenes they would research why the other 50% didn't also suicide, and then take steps to maximise that number.
Anon while they don't give a shit about us at the highest levels, this hyperbole doesn't help anything. This is ridiculous
It's more that they don't want people to have healthcare, and any excuse they can use, like the recipient being oppressed minorities, will be used.
It's neoliberal austerity.
Im sorry that this is a lot to take in. You are attributing to incompetence that which can be explained by malice.
They are very explicit in their hatred of us. Section 28 was present during Thatchers reign. The establishment always hated us. Im sorry this id a lot to take in
ok maybe youre all correct but saying they are trying to figure out why trannies didn't kill themselves so they can increase the number is clear hyperbole
No, I think they're just deliberately neglecting trannies so they'll kill themselves
Im so sorry anon. Things are more evil than you ever realised. They want us dead, and they are systemically targetting us. They are not neglecting us, they are actively and directly making our lives almost impossible. Transition is non-existent for under 18s, its almost impossible for adults, and the constant association with paedophillia, rape, abusers etc.
Watch this video from 04:00 onwards. Please understand what they are doing, they DIRECTLY want to reduce our numbers. Please, everyone, watch this.
They see us as an illness to be eliminated
Imagine calling someone with an Irish accent a Britbonger. Not a great start, this person is an idiot. Why would they know about British society particularly? What is their expertise?
Ignore the host, listen to what Helen Joyce says. "The system will actively reduce the numbers of trans people using the State."
If you go out of your way to listen to voices that are transphobic, you will hear transphobic voices. You're doomscrolling. Helen Joyce is a nobody, that isn't to say that there aren't issues but what Helen Joyce says or claims is largely irrelevant.
I wish you were right, i really do. I really, really wish you were right. I dont want to live in a country that is actively out to harm me, but i do.
I live in England, and the establishment has dedicated itself to our erosion. We are arguing over systemic vs systematic genocide, but the fact remains we are under fire.
They're making her accesible to cis women through a GP appointment, but tranners have to wait ten years.
>They're making her accesible
They're making HRT accessible*
I mean, technically they are making 'her' accessible to cishons, if you consider 'her' a metaphor for their physically feminine form, and the alternative 'him' as their masculine realization. Like the way boomerhons speak of their feminine self in third person, as if it's an alternative person existing within them lol.
>Im genuinelu surprised they even still offer SRS.
I suppose it's an old cultural holdover from an era bygone in terms of 'what defines someone as trans'. Like old boomers who think that getting SRS is the penultimate act of MtF transition, the one true goal, and that those who've not had it are invalid.
They might as well not even offer it considering the techniques and results. You only get one shot at it, and I've heard bad things about the surgeon consort available through the NHS.
>You only get one shot at it, and I've heard bad things about the surgeon consort available through the NHS.
The surgeons available are top tier, I think some people romanticize the very specific shopping experience Amerihons have with their insurance system.
Yes, but what has Helen Joyce got to do with any of that?
Im glad we can agree, forget about Helen Joyce.
I dont see any solution to England other than leaving. We cant politically influence the government, the media has infected the minds of normies.
I wish it was straightforward to move, it feels like im trapped here.
Btw the Deputy PM has changed the law, now anyone going to prison automatically goes into a male prison, even if they've had SRS and have a GRC for violent offences. Battery (touching someone) is a violent offence. ABH (self defence) is a violent offence. They are very open with their hatred towards us
You're so naive.
Ever heard of the book "Transsexual Empire"? It was written in the 70s, and is essentially a/the TERF manifesto. It literally calls for a complete eradication of trans people. And guess what, TERFs and the Bong government and pretty well intertwined at the moment.
Also, let's face it, do you seriously think all those higher class retards who don't know how much a loaf of bread costs or why immigrants are a thing have as much respect for trans people as to merely neglect them out of carelessness?
>It's neoliberal austerity
Commie trannies will do the most insane mental gymnastics imaginable before admitting that a bureaucracy run by cis people might do transphobic things
This is actually generally a good thing. It doesn't mean she wasn't under stress and didn't take her own life, but it means if she had life insurance for example, they still have to pay out regardless of a suicide clause.
Literally what the point of the waitlists are, they will string you along for as long as it takes for you to either give up or kill yourself. Also if you do give up after trying, even if you do DIY, they will count you as a someone who’s desisted and use that stat as anti-trans propaganda.
Its all deliberate, they want us dead. And even then they'll use it as propaganda against us "look at people committing suicide because they are trans". No its because the system is genociding us.
All this misery could have been avoided
Literally true, and there’s documents showing their plan is to just make people wait forever
Yeah this is ultra fucked up...
And people wonder why the fucking suicide rates are so high. Among other reasons this shit for sure.
>He also found that BEH had failed to undertake their own diagnosis of her condition, failed to carry out a risk assessment of the risk of overdosed posed by her episodes, and had referred her to inappropriate therapy which was not capable of addressing her risks of self harm.
>He called on BEH, NHS England and GICs to improve provision of care to trans patients. He said there is a risk of further deaths if improvements weren't made to provide mental health support to those on waiting lists and called for better liaison with other mental services.
>Sophie's friend Toby said: "I hope that the outcome of this inquest prompts BEH Trust to seriously engage with the family and carers of their clients; whether biological or chosen. I hope that they address the transphobia within their institution. I hope that NHS England provides the adequate resources to GICs such that other trans people aren’t stuck on seemingly endless waiting lists to access life saving care.
>"I hope that I will be able to take small comfort in the fact that Sophie’s death will prompt positive change in the institutions that were meant to care for her. I hope that others will not have to die in this way. More than anything I wish that Sophie was still here. I wish I could hear her voice again, hold her, and care for our community with her."
I'm completely for the right to bodily autonomy and gender and shit, but at the same time I can also literally see that a narrative is being pushed in order to push trans people towards social instability. Not necessarily by restrictions but rather by introducing the thought of gender identity as a whole. It starts off as a israeli tactic and now it's mixed in with a TERF tactic in order to destabilize people further and make them more vulnerable, to change the ways of how they think accordingly to whoever wishes to regulate them for whatever motive.
Psychoanalytic integration for marketing schemes have given people way too much power of influence, and it's absorbing everyone into what's almost like fucking mass delusional break (so to speak, not necessarily saying that being trans is delusional). It's literally killing people by grooming them into thinking they're "revealing" a different identity when they're just having people repress opposing gender roles as if it's something that is so neglected within their identity. They're covering that sort of message by advertising narratives that use these psychological tactics to garner more income. It's all extremely fucked, and the consoomer monkeys are falling for it.
Nothing is real in this world anymore, because objective truth doesn't exist. You can only see contradictions, and you'd have to fall into one dialectic indoctrination or another. Either or, one thing is clear: you're being exploited. Identity is a joke, a construct, and you're all being fucking played. I am fucking sorry for saying this.
Kill yourself right now
Who are "they"? Can you list name/-s?
>schitzoposting on /lgbt/
That was a lot of words to say literally nothing of any interest or intelligence.
>It starts off as a israeli tactic and now it's mixed in with a TERF tactic in order to destabilize people further and make them more vulnerable, to change the ways of how they think accordingly to whoever wishes to regulate them for whatever motive.
Anon kill yourself
A UK tranner's official choices: hondose or overdose.
should have let me handle the appointment
I could have been there in 1 day to let him know he will never be a real woman
>terf island sucks
they are forced to eat dog food over there, and have a modern slavery system. it's a third world country.
what type of gender clinic are they talking about?
face surgery, penis snip, or hormone meds?
GIC would be for hormones, and eventually a GRC.
Ffs isnt covered by any insurance here, and bottom surgery will only be completed on the NHS after first completing the above GRC, which is a te year wait
>Ffs isnt covered by any insurance here
How long you wanna bet it'll be before they push to classify gender affirming care as 'cosmetic'. It's their favourite way to deny access to treatments on the NHS.
Im genuinelu surprised they even still offer SRS. They banned Orchi's, despite being vastly cheaper, and quicker.
You may hear of one person im a 1000 getting BA but its very rare in my experience. FFS is a no no. 15% of british tranners have got FFS.
You can go private for bottom surgery, but it's expensive. About the same as US prices.
Unfortunately we have to share a planet with people like you.
i want to kill myself because people like you exist
>can find drugs to overdose on
>cant find HRT online
Why are ukfags so full of hons and stupid people?
She's a real nobody. Listening to her just isn't going to tell you much about anything, she has her own agenda and part of that agenda is making herself sound more relevant than she is. You're better off looking at what the think tanks have been publishing, politicians listen to them.
You're a spiteful human being. The police can just lie and send people to prison on false evidence.
Why do you want trans women to be abused? What has happened to you, to take such a brutal stance?
>You're a spiteful human being. The police can just lie and send people to prison on false evidence.
This isn't true. You are making claims like we're talking about a despotic regime like we live in Iran or something, it doesn't help our case.
People who are targeted are more likely to be put into situations where they may be imprisoned for such crimes.
All that said, get a lawyer if you're arrested.
Im not making anything up. England is deeply corrupt. Have you been living under a rock, 1 in 100 police have been convicted of rape, one recently got life for killing a woman, i myself was a victim of police planting evidence. You should listen to people with more experience.
Im actually glad you think what you think, it means you've never come up againt how brutal Englands court system is. Its horrible. It destroys lives
If they're criminals I don't give a shit about them. They're probably in there for sex crimes anyway.
This woman died for no reason. We cannot have people killing themselves simply because they don't know DIY HRT exists. Actively look for trans events and support groups near you to spread DIY info at, it doesn't matter if you get kicked out, you only need to tell the people there once. We could tell every trans person who needs to know about DIY in < 6 months if we tried and save as many as we can without any additional resources or assets & only a little effort. If you want to spread resources not well-known within the trans community to your own local part of the UK, especially outside of the southeast of England, consider joining this server: https://discord.gg/AamPmTub
What a ridiculous reason to kill oneself. I would be embarrassed.
28 is not at all late to DIY. Look at Sophie Xeon, transitioned near 30 mark.