So did Indo-Iranian spread through the steppes now or did it spread through Iran?

So did Indo-Iranian spread through the steppes now or did it spread through Iran?

  1. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    So according to modern papers Sumer truly is the origin of all civilizations

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >that 6500 year old soomer

  2. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Steppe
    The arc study found the north western iran 1000 bc sample not iranian so they arrived in the first millennium bc from the steppe
    Also werent schythians purer sintashta than iranians and they were located in the steppe?

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >Also werent schythians purer sintashta than iranians and they were located in the steppe?
      as I understand it, and I might be wrong, scythians are ancient iranians BEFORE migrating to iran, they are the part of them that stayed for some reason, but some texts claim they came from the east (the scythians) so it's a bit confusing

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >but some texts claim they came from the east (the scythians)
        because they are not homogeneous. Some of them have BMAC component+Siberian ancestry. Srubnaya have neither of these.

        Identified Scythians are both these easterners and assimilated Srubnaya (and likely others, like "Scythian farmers").
        In the west it is better to think of it as a cultural horizon.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          According to Herodotus, the royal tribe, aka, the biggest, most fierce and the one to hold the royal israelites were only accepting of Scythians and no outsider could join

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            *royal israeliteels

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            *royal israeliteels

            kek

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        scythians are described as having blond or red hair and blue or green eyes.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          we have blonde scythian mummies

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          and?

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        This supports iranics came from the east.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          I mean entered iran from the east NOT CAME FROM EAST ASIA
          If schythians have more sintashta and located northeast of iran

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          could be, idk, something tells me it doesn't but whatevs, what do I know

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Are you sure? That was probably a sample from armenia and its steppe dna was from yamnaya. If it brough an indo-iranian language with it,it still would have spread to india through iran. Also the timing is important since the vedas are older

  3. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    It didn't originate in India, like Hindutvas claim, that much every sane person can agree on.

  4. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    They are all from the steppes. The conclusion of that study is wrong. But even in this study Indo-Iranian is from the steppes.
    I actually think it's from further West, maybe from Poland or Belarus. The cultures leading to Indo-Iranian were very Corded-Ware-like, some samples had even more farmer ancestry than most Cordeds.

    In fact, in the aforementioned study they claimed that the appearence of Yamnaya lineages and ancestry in Armenia coincides with expansion of CWC groups from the West.

    Basically, CWC replaced those steppe people (like Catacomb) or pushed them South forcing them to cross the Caucasus to survive. Indeed, the Srubnaya that emerged in the region after Catacomb is CWC-like and carry R1a-Z93 (Catacomb was R1b-Z2103 like Yamnaya, the Armenian samples are also Z2103).

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      Many Armenian samples are I2 too. The subclade today is common in the Caucasus, but it's somewhat a mystery how it got there. It wasn't found in steppe groups (but ancestral clades were found in Balkan farmers).

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      the Iranic Fatyanovo Z93 connection is unchallenged by the paper and best fits all the evidence (linguistic, archeological, genetic).

      The case that archaic PIE is from west asia is much more plausible than the spread of LPIE is from the Steppe.
      There are still a lot of problems with the former but we don't have the key samples to prove it out.
      I also don't think this question hinges on where proto-anatolian came from as much as the authors seem to emphasize.

      Many Armenian samples are I2 too. The subclade today is common in the Caucasus, but it's somewhat a mystery how it got there. It wasn't found in steppe groups (but ancestral clades were found in Balkan farmers).

      It's still shocking to me that none of the uniparental results are given sufficient analysis

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        >best fits all the evidence (linguistic, archeological, genetic).
        Wrong on all three, I swear steppe LARPers are cultists
        Linguistically there aren't any strong evidence in favor and I-Ir don't have influence from uralic languages as one would expect
        Archeologically BMAC has iranic elements, fatyanovo don't
        Genetically Sintashta/Andronovo did not contribute dna in india, and the steppe in Iran is from yamnaya not cwc

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Z93 spread Indo-Aryan languages.
          You need to find a way to cope with this.
          >I-Ir don't have influence from uralic languages
          Yes they do.

          It's interesting how willing people are to take the Reich Lab's thoughts on the PIE urheimat at face value yet ignore their thoughts on how it got to India and Iran.

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            “According to Underhill et al. (2014), the downstream R1a-M417 subclade diversified into Z282 and Z93 circa 5,800 years ago "in the vicinity of Iran and Eastern Turkey".”

          • 3 months ago
            Anonymous

            >Yes they do.
            No they don't, and linguists are aware of this
            >It's interesting how willing people are to take the Reich Lab's thoughts on the PIE urheimat at face value yet ignore their thoughts on how it got to India and Iran
            Not from sintashta or andronovo since these sources don't work statistically. The models fail. And later steppe groups (that did contribute dna to india) postdate IIr

            • 3 months ago
              Anonymous

              >Not from sintashta or andronovo since these sources don't work statistically. The models fail. And later steppe groups (that did contribute dna to india) postdate IIr
              Correct, Indo-Aryans were Y3, not Z2124 Sintashta.
              Hence it comes from something related to Abashevo.

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                Isn't abashevo genetically identical to sintashta? Sintashta as a proxy rejects abashevo as far as I'm aware

              • 3 months ago
                Anonymous

                We don't have Abashevo dna. We do have some Potapovka, though.
                IIRC it looks like Sintashta's WSH is "topped up" a bit from mixing with Poltavka.

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Surely the spread of the horse and horseman ship into Central Asia is better evidence of the Steppes cultures moving south than the Armenian cultures moving north.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      >I actually think it's from further West, maybe from Poland or Belarus
      Funny how people who were half near eastern and half east-of-the-urals siberian mixed with anatolian people and ended up in poland and belarus huh

      • 3 months ago
        Anonymous

        Huh?
        Sintashta are basically CWC-like. Yamnaya+Anatolian. But Sintashta-Andronovo groups contain many cultures, so some of them have some more ANE, probably from WSHG and similar groups. Looking at India it seems like it was a group like that that migrated there.

        Steppe
        The arc study found the north western iran 1000 bc sample not iranian so they arrived in the first millennium bc from the steppe
        Also werent schythians purer sintashta than iranians and they were located in the steppe?

        Scythians weren't purer Sintashta. After MLBA the original steppe-MLBA cluster disintegrated and all Iron Age cultures carried various amount of southern and eastern ancestry, though many of them remained 70%+ Sintashta-like.

        The source of this foreign ancestry seems to be BMAC and some Siberians. I think it might be actually Seima Turbino as they expanded from East to West around the same time as Sintashta.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          Unpublished study.

          >Here, we are presenting genomic data from nine individuals, eight males and one female, from the ST associated site Rostovka located on the river Om, 15km away from Omsk, Russia, and excavated in 1966-1969. Elaborate artifacts found at the site made it famous among the archaeologists and the scientific community in general. The majority of the graves found at the Rostovka burial site contain bronze ST objects, as well as stone molds for casting bronze objects, stone spearheads and armory. Based on the genome-wide SNP data, we found that the Rostovka individuals vary widely with regards to their genetic profile, ranging between the ancestry maximized in North Siberians and the local Sintashta-associated individuals, mirroring the geographic spread of the ST phenomenon. The presence of the N-L392 Y-haplogroup in the sample further supports the link between ST and the spread of the Uralic languages. This is the first study to report genetic data for individuals associated with the ST trans-cultural phenomenon and its potential link to the spread of Uralic languages across the Eurasian forest steppe.

        • 3 months ago
          Anonymous

          >Sintashta are basically CWC-like.
          Early cwc had little to no eed. Sintashta has 1/3 or more eef
          >it seems like it was a group like that that migrated there.
          That has been confirmed afaik. Something like kangju

  5. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    Archaeological evidence would support it spreading through Iran considering the lack of evidence for Steppe.

    But ig that would also depend on how old PIE origination in Armenia is

  6. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    through blonde-haired blue eyed elite warriors.

  7. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    PIE originated in NW Iran/Armenia and PIE farmers moved east and founded the Indus Valley Civilization

  8. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    We don't know. Likely from Iran since aDNA rules out Sintashta/Andronovo migrating in india, plus there are various linguistic arguments
    That's for rational people. For boomers and larpers who suck off david anthony it doesn't mean anything since they're braindead

  9. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >Hold up if PIE formed in armenia in 6000BC then whey did the Hurrians and Hattians who existed in 3000bc -2000bc not speak it? This map is claiming that it spread from Armenia to Germany over the Caucasus mountains 1000s of years before it spread 50 miles to the west?

    big blunder.

    • 3 months ago
      Anonymous

      this

      maybe the relation between spread of language and genes isn't always 1:1 or something

  10. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    >steppes

  11. 3 months ago
    Anonymous

    No idea. Could be from sarazm and bmac
    In that case an unknown IE language sister of anatolian or daughter, travelled east to BMAC territory and then back into iran and further south to india

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