Personally I don't think he was that good at all, I think he just got the success because his cynical themes appeal to a lot of people nowadays.
I am not a fan of blind optimism or naive idealism but George here is proof that spoiled cynicism or whiny pessimism has it's own flaws.
Tolkein finished his writings at least and he was inspired by a previous work which was more Nietzschian and pagan in nature called the Worm ouroboros.
> Is he any good?
Yes, no matter what the pseud zoomers on this shit board say > Will he finish the saga?
Winds absolutely. Dream probably not. > Does he deserve the success?
Yes > Was it luck?
Both I guess
He's pretty good but has trouble plotting sometimes and will often create a mystery with no clear answer in mind (or has an answer but changes his mind on it later) which is probably a big reason why he's stuck.
Prime example: Bran's assassin - godawful conclusion to the mystery because he clearly wasn't writing with that conclusion in mind when he began that plot.
I like that theory better too but the fact that he made Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion all independently (baffling) come to the conclusion it was Joffrey leaves little room for doubt of GRRM's intentions.
Why didn't he just keep it as cersei as he clearly originally intended? It was also would make sense why the assassin used a valyrian dagger because she was super scared to what Bran would say and wanted to guarantee him dead
I'd like to believe that but the logic the 3 characters use to conclude it's Joffrey is so terrible and out-of-character it feels less like a set-up for a later surprise/subversion and more like the author patching together a hasty conclusion to a plot point he no longer wants to deal with at all. Say it was Mance; what do you do with that as the author? You can't just leave it as hinted and never mention it again.
I think the issue is more that he has an answer in mind but gets lots in the weeds on the way to it, and he can't work out how to get back on the path.
I genuinely believe I could rewrite the entire series with half the word count with nice pretty prose and make it the greatest work of literature this century. War and Peace but with dragons and shit
>Is he any good?
Yes. >Will he finish the saga?
No. >Is he deserving of the success of his books?
Yes. >Or it was just luck?
No but it's always part luck. HBO deciding to cancel Rome is a big reason for him being a household name.
Yes he's good. Yes he'll finish it and make everyone butthurt. LULZ hates him now because he's become more openly liberal and there are a ton of christcucks here agrt about that. They keep trying to claim that he's subverting the christian Spirit or some bullshit like that.
It's a fantasy series for people who like pretending they enjoy fantasy. It's a thick book so they can feel smart, and it's a "mature" book (i.e. has sex and violence), so they, too, can feel mature.
As far as storytelling goes, it's crap, but it's not really meant to be enjoyed. It's a fashion statement. It's a water-cooler book.
ASoIaF was sort of popular with normie upper middle class professionals way back in the late 90s and 00s. They liked it first and foremost because it was a soap opera with some interesting and charismatic characters. Its secondary appeal was that it simplified war, worldbuilding, and so one so they could be easily understood and remembered by casual readers, while skillfully presenting all of these things as deeper and more complex than they were so the reader didn't feel bad about reading lowbrow genre fiction. I think the restraint it showed with the supernatural stuff also helped it with this crowd, since they tend to(somewhat unfairly) associate the more fantastical elements in fantasy with kindergarten-tier fare like Harry Potter.
>you ever think people read things out of enjoyment and not for clout
Not very often
Especially not this board, where every thread is about recommending books to show how superior and smart you are
He has talent for plotting and a lot of his character development is really skillful - the SoIaF books often find heel characters being made sympathetic in compelling ways, which is difficult to do.
But: he writes shitty Ren Faire prose and dialogue, like all fantasy hacks do. His world building is frequently sub-video game level. His talent for plot development comes and goes, and now he's written himself into a corner he will never get out of. And, most of all: his "gritty realism" is torture porn, it's as "realistic" as the Hostel/Saw movie franchises, and the fact that he delights in describing 14 year olds being gang raped and old ladies being flayed alive says a lot about the sort of person who writes or reads this stuff, and none of it is good (yes, I read it, I'm ashamed of myself and have learned my lesson).
Great character writer despite what contrarians may say. He will likely finish Winds and with how vocal and he's being on social media and interviews I'm thinking sometime in late 2024 early 2025. Dream of Spring on the other hand will not be coming unless he lives to 90 and even then doesn't end up suffering from some sort of old-age/morbid obesity career stunting illness which isn't likely.
He's been overly-confident before about finishing Winds. He initially said he could finish in 3 years if he writes at a good pace. Then in 2019 he jokingly said fans could imprison him if he wasn't finished by the end of the year. Then in 2020 he said lockdowns had given him more time to work on it. My guess is that he has something like 70-80% of the material needed for a full book but always hits writers block (or is too lazy) to work out how to bring it all together.
If I was a betting man, I'd say he'll die before finishing Winds, but there'll be enough material to print it with an epilogue summarising his plans for the rest of the book and Dream of Spring.
Recently finished meathouse man, I enjoyed it. Started dying of the light yesterday. Asoiaf is good, but twow might not be released. Even if it does, it won't live up to the hype.
Retarded contrarians in this thread actually think that Martin hates Tolkien, and writes his stories to attack Christian values or some shit lmao
But yes, he's a good writer. He will probably finish Winds, but not Dream. His success is deserved, and it's a mix of luck and skill.
Is any of his non-ASOIAF stuff good? Is his sci-fi stuff any good? He's become so consumed by these damned fantasy books that everybody tends to forget he's been a writer for a long time and has cranked out a lot of other stuff.
>Is he any good?
His dialogue is superb. Ironically, he's excellent at characterizing characters quickly, and his short stories are even better probably for that exact reason. >Will he finish the saga?
Winds of Winter is 100% going to release, a Dream of Spring is 100% be unfinished, and if I'm not misremembering he doesn't want anything to be published after his death, so in short: No. >Is he deserving of the success of his books?
He arguably brought a huge change into the fantasy genre, and also made people take it more seriously than they did before, so you can argue that's deserving of success. >Or it was just luck?
Everything is about luck to some extent, if his work had nothing to offer it wouldn't have become so universally popular, even before the show came out.
Personally I don't think he was that good at all, I think he just got the success because his cynical themes appeal to a lot of people nowadays.
I am not a fan of blind optimism or naive idealism but George here is proof that spoiled cynicism or whiny pessimism has it's own flaws.
Tolkein finished his writings at least and he was inspired by a previous work which was more Nietzschian and pagan in nature called the Worm ouroboros.
>cynical themes
you haven't read it, have you?
Most people seething about it haven't.
> Is he any good?
Yes, no matter what the pseud zoomers on this shit board say
> Will he finish the saga?
Winds absolutely. Dream probably not.
> Does he deserve the success?
Yes
> Was it luck?
Both I guess
He's pretty good but has trouble plotting sometimes and will often create a mystery with no clear answer in mind (or has an answer but changes his mind on it later) which is probably a big reason why he's stuck.
Prime example: Bran's assassin - godawful conclusion to the mystery because he clearly wasn't writing with that conclusion in mind when he began that plot.
Mance hiring the assassin makes perfect sense though.
I like that theory better too but the fact that he made Jaime, Cersei and Tyrion all independently (baffling) come to the conclusion it was Joffrey leaves little room for doubt of GRRM's intentions.
Why didn't he just keep it as cersei as he clearly originally intended? It was also would make sense why the assassin used a valyrian dagger because she was super scared to what Bran would say and wanted to guarantee him dead
Yes, that makes it blatantly clear that it wasn't Joffrey because that's how GRRM writes.
Assuming that it's actually Joffrey is like assuming that Ashara is Jon's mother because everyone says that.
I'd like to believe that but the logic the 3 characters use to conclude it's Joffrey is so terrible and out-of-character it feels less like a set-up for a later surprise/subversion and more like the author patching together a hasty conclusion to a plot point he no longer wants to deal with at all. Say it was Mance; what do you do with that as the author? You can't just leave it as hinted and never mention it again.
I think the issue is more that he has an answer in mind but gets lots in the weeds on the way to it, and he can't work out how to get back on the path.
for a moment I thought the post was RIP Martin
This novelist is low-brow slop for children. You should not take him seriously.
I found his first book painfully generic and didn't bother reading the second one
I genuinely believe I could rewrite the entire series with half the word count with nice pretty prose and make it the greatest work of literature this century. War and Peace but with dragons and shit
Why don't you do it?
It would be an enormous waste of time and I don’t want to get sued
Post your prose
I really like his works but honestly at BEST we will get Winds and maybe some more Dunk and Egg before he dies of a heart attack. 0 chance of Spring
>Is he any good?
Yes.
>Will he finish the saga?
No.
>Is he deserving of the success of his books?
Yes.
>Or it was just luck?
No but it's always part luck. HBO deciding to cancel Rome is a big reason for him being a household name.
>HBO deciding to cancel Rome
The BBC decided that when they pulled the funding.
Yes he's good. Yes he'll finish it and make everyone butthurt. LULZ hates him now because he's become more openly liberal and there are a ton of christcucks here agrt about that. They keep trying to claim that he's subverting the christian Spirit or some bullshit like that.
Don't listen to these retards.
Kill yourself tranny homosexual
No, no, no and no.
He's a midwit who pitched his work at midwits, so it certainly wasn't luck. There are billions of midwits after all.
It's a fantasy series for people who like pretending they enjoy fantasy. It's a thick book so they can feel smart, and it's a "mature" book (i.e. has sex and violence), so they, too, can feel mature.
As far as storytelling goes, it's crap, but it's not really meant to be enjoyed. It's a fashion statement. It's a water-cooler book.
Pulp fantasy was never fashionable. Nobody discusses this shit in real life. They do it online, where thay can be anonymous.
ASoIaF was sort of popular with normie upper middle class professionals way back in the late 90s and 00s. They liked it first and foremost because it was a soap opera with some interesting and charismatic characters. Its secondary appeal was that it simplified war, worldbuilding, and so one so they could be easily understood and remembered by casual readers, while skillfully presenting all of these things as deeper and more complex than they were so the reader didn't feel bad about reading lowbrow genre fiction. I think the restraint it showed with the supernatural stuff also helped it with this crowd, since they tend to(somewhat unfairly) associate the more fantastical elements in fantasy with kindergarten-tier fare like Harry Potter.
you ever think people read things out of enjoyment and not for clout
>you ever think people read things out of enjoyment and not for clout
Not very often
Especially not this board, where every thread is about recommending books to show how superior and smart you are
For people who pretend to enjoy fantasy? What are the real enjoyers reading, then?
He has talent for plotting and a lot of his character development is really skillful - the SoIaF books often find heel characters being made sympathetic in compelling ways, which is difficult to do.
But: he writes shitty Ren Faire prose and dialogue, like all fantasy hacks do. His world building is frequently sub-video game level. His talent for plot development comes and goes, and now he's written himself into a corner he will never get out of. And, most of all: his "gritty realism" is torture porn, it's as "realistic" as the Hostel/Saw movie franchises, and the fact that he delights in describing 14 year olds being gang raped and old ladies being flayed alive says a lot about the sort of person who writes or reads this stuff, and none of it is good (yes, I read it, I'm ashamed of myself and have learned my lesson).
libtard goyslop
No.
The most successful wrighter of the last 40 years, matched only by tolkien. That's how big he is.
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Great character writer despite what contrarians may say. He will likely finish Winds and with how vocal and he's being on social media and interviews I'm thinking sometime in late 2024 early 2025. Dream of Spring on the other hand will not be coming unless he lives to 90 and even then doesn't end up suffering from some sort of old-age/morbid obesity career stunting illness which isn't likely.
He's been overly-confident before about finishing Winds. He initially said he could finish in 3 years if he writes at a good pace. Then in 2019 he jokingly said fans could imprison him if he wasn't finished by the end of the year. Then in 2020 he said lockdowns had given him more time to work on it. My guess is that he has something like 70-80% of the material needed for a full book but always hits writers block (or is too lazy) to work out how to bring it all together.
If I was a betting man, I'd say he'll die before finishing Winds, but there'll be enough material to print it with an epilogue summarising his plans for the rest of the book and Dream of Spring.
Good thread, half of the people says yeah the other half nah
bad thread
Recently finished meathouse man, I enjoyed it. Started dying of the light yesterday. Asoiaf is good, but twow might not be released. Even if it does, it won't live up to the hype.
>Is he any good?
Yes
>Will he finish the saga?
No
>Is he deserving of the success of his books?
Yes
>Or it was just luck?
No
I am GURM AMA
Retarded contrarians in this thread actually think that Martin hates Tolkien, and writes his stories to attack Christian values or some shit lmao
But yes, he's a good writer. He will probably finish Winds, but not Dream. His success is deserved, and it's a mix of luck and skill.
Is any of his non-ASOIAF stuff good? Is his sci-fi stuff any good? He's become so consumed by these damned fantasy books that everybody tends to forget he's been a writer for a long time and has cranked out a lot of other stuff.
I have only read Fevre Dream but I really enjoyed it.
he's real gud, are there people acting like Dunk and Egg isn't high kino
I only liked the second one. Especially the first one seemed like Mary Sue in Westeros.
>Is he any good?
His dialogue is superb. Ironically, he's excellent at characterizing characters quickly, and his short stories are even better probably for that exact reason.
>Will he finish the saga?
Winds of Winter is 100% going to release, a Dream of Spring is 100% be unfinished, and if I'm not misremembering he doesn't want anything to be published after his death, so in short: No.
>Is he deserving of the success of his books?
He arguably brought a huge change into the fantasy genre, and also made people take it more seriously than they did before, so you can argue that's deserving of success.
>Or it was just luck?
Everything is about luck to some extent, if his work had nothing to offer it wouldn't have become so universally popular, even before the show came out.
Someone post the "sunset found her squatting..." and the horns went "awooooo!" excerpts.
George R. R. Fartin amirite?