Who is the rightful heir to the Roman Empire?
Roman Empire
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Who is the rightful heir to the Roman Empire?
Falling into your wing while paragliding is called 'gift wrapping' and turns you into a dirt torpedo pic.twitter.com/oQFKsVISkI
— Mental Videos (@MentalVids) March 15, 2023
My dick.
No one
It doesn't matter and has no effect on anything.
>Doing legitimacy gymnastics
>Even recognizing the WRE and ERE as two separate things, when they weren't
>Not recognizing the Latin, Epirus and Trebizond Empires
>Trebizond
acknowledging then would give the safavids a persian mutt dynasty a claim to the roman empire
They had quite literal the same exact claim as Nicaea. That's just being pointlessly selective, and not even consistent.
Did you even read my post. The last rulers of trebizond gave their princesses to ottoman rivals in order to stave off the otttoman conquest of trebizond. In particular the Aq Qoyonlu. The Aq Qoyunlu leader Uzun Hasan gave his daughter by his trebizond wife to the Safavid Junayd who gave birth to the founder of the safavid dynasty. Uzun Hasan himself was descended from trebizond royalty.
Ok? So why not acknowledge that?
>acknowledging a claim for a dynasty whose only connection to rome is blood with everyrhing else being foreign
No.
So why do you acknowledge Nicaea when they have the same exact issue? Why not have the Latins as the true successors, after all they were the only ones to carry of the former Administration.
Are you dumb? Nicaea was the one that carried on byzantine traditions since big shocker western anatolia was one of the key regions and where much of the nobility and aristocrats fled to. The Latin empire implemented western traditions like feudalism in the southern balkans
>Nicaea was the one that carried on byzantine traditions
So did the Latins, and in Epirus, and in Trebizond.
>where much of the nobility and aristocrats fled to
Most of the families known in the period stayed with the Latin Empire. In fact there was even a large contingent of autonomous aristocrats supporting them in opposition to both Nicaea and Epirus. See pic for aristocratic families.
>The Latin empire implemented western traditions like feudalism in the southern balkans
Rather dishonest if you mean it any sense as Western Europe. They maintained the administration they came across and the Emperor ruled far, far harder than any other feudal regime in the West. He possessed a very similar level of control to the Emperors in the 1180's. Without the free fall of the state, at least until 1230.
>Epirus was under Latin suzereignity
Who wrote that garbage? The situation after the fall of constaninople was pure realpolitik. Alliances constantly made or broken. Dumbest shit I've read.
>Rather dishonest if you mean it any sense as Western Europe. They maintained the administration they came across and the Emperor ruled far, far harder than any other feudal regime in the West. He possessed a very similar level of control to the Emperors in the 1180's. Without the free fall of the state, at least until 1230.
You're a retard who knows jack shit. The actual Latin empire only controlled Constantinople, some of thrace, and small portions of NW Anatolia. The first latin emperor had to cede his claims to thessalonica after his rival occupied it. He was then killed in battle against the bulgarians and the latin empire made a second rate player in the post byzantine world. The Latin domains in Thessalonica, Greece, and the Morea were ruled by feudal warlords. The Latin empire was undermined from the start as well as the Venetians took many islands for their reward. The Latin empire and its emperor were jokes. With your post you revelaed yourself as knowing nothing about the historical period you claim to be an expert on
>Who wrote that garbage?
Fillip Van Tricht, one of the few specialists in the Latin Empire. You don't get to say he's wrong because your head canon says so.
>The situation after the fall of constaninople was pure realpolitik
No it wasn't. That's complete nonsense to just assume people stopped believing in legitimate institutions just cause.
> The actual Latin empire only controlled Constantinople, some of thrace, and small portions of NW Anatolia.
The 'Imperial Quarter' is what you're describing, but do go on and forget that the Emperor more or less had extreme control even over his vassals fiefs. Thessaloniki until its capture by Eprius was ruled as a Kingdom, with a tight grip from the Emperor.
> The first latin emperor had to cede his claims to thessalonica after his rival occupied it.
Uh no, they were in agreement in this. The winner of the Imperial election would gain the Imperial quarter and the loser would become King of Thessaloniki. They were not 'rivals' in any sense.
>He was then killed in battle against the bulgarians and the latin empire made a second rate player in the post byzantine world
Ignoring the entire reign of Henry I, I see.
>The Latin domains in Thessalonica, Greece, and the Morea were ruled by feudal warlords
Your essentially envisioning the Latin Empire after its political collapse in the 1220's and then projecting it on the past.
>The Latin empire and its emperor were jokes.
Which is why until the reign of Robert I, the Empire was still the preeminent power in the Balkans.
>the Empire was still the preeminent power in the Balkans.
That was the bulgarians you idiot
>That was the bulgarians you idiot
No, actually. They were very belligerent neighbours but they were not the most politically powerful state in the Balkans. They were in the end unable to actually dent the Latin Empire, they were not the main theatre of operation or hostility which would be Nicaea and later Epirus. They would quickly lose even their own position of superiority in the non-Byzantine successor states to Serbia, a noted ally of the Latin Empire.
>They were in the end unable to actually dent the Latin Empire, they were not the main theatre of operation or hostility which would be Nicaea and later Epirus.
They were apart of the main theater. Thrace was where most of the fighting took place.
>It's almost like the Latin Empire up until 1228 was extremely different from what came after. Also are you just selectively reading? I literally stated it was until the reign of Robert, you're being obtuse on purpose
One half among a pile oof shit doesn't make your pet empire the most preeminant power in the balkans.
>They were apart of the main theater.
If you believe warfare between medieval states to be anywhere close to that of early modern theatres you are horribly mistaken. Nicaea and Bulgaria went to war at different times, and did not work together against the Latins. These were wars against other states on individual an individual basis, not a line of warfare where the Bulgarians and Nicaeans were putting in a concentrated effort for an equal goal
>One half among a pile oof shit doesn't make your pet empire the most preeminant power in the balkans.
Are you just incapable of reading? I assume you're just trolling at this point.
>after its political collapse in the 1220's
>1204–1261
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Preeminant power sure buddy
It's almost like the Latin Empire up until 1228 was extremely different from what came after. Also are you just selectively reading? I literally stated it was until the reign of Robert, you're being obtuse on purpose.
>Muh legitimacy
That’s where your entire argument falls apart. Succession and legitimacy are spooks. If all that mattered was legitimate succession than the empire died with the collapse of the Julio-Claudian dynasty and every successor state is legitimate.
>Julio-Claudian dynasty
Not a dynasty. Thats a historical construct. The institutuons xreated by Augustus survived the of his dynasty and gave future emperors legitimacy. As time passed the roman emperor became more of a monarch. There were still a cycle of dynasties but trebizond in particular was founded by the Komnenos after they were toppled by the Angeloi. Trebizond was the domain of the komnenos and thus blood relations mattered far more in the succession of trebizond than other byzantine statelets like Nicaea
>Greeo-Roman and Iranic legacy
I forgot about Safavids…
ebin if true
>heir to X empire
Autism
>Who is the rightful heir to the Roman Empire?
For most of the actual roman empire, it was the guy with enough soldiers or pretorians on their side. Applying medieval concepts of rulership inheritance upon it is beyond stupid.
The most powerful larper. At the moment it's America.
Right after 1803 buyout, showdown with Mexico, Spanish-American war and dissolved the Habsburg-Third Rome-Ottoman important seat power.
Your mother.