Redpill me on the synoptic problem. Did Q exist? Did either Matthew or Luke use the other as a source?

Redpill me on the synoptic problem. Did Q exist? Did either Matthew or Luke use the other as a source?

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    Mark is either the original, or the first gospel proper and the one used as reference
    Doesn't matter
    At least Matthew used Mark as direct reference. Luke either used Matthew and Mark, or mirrored Matthew

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    John (eyewitness account) was written first around 40, followed by Luke around 55, then Matthew sometime in the 60s. Mark was written last as a short version of Matthew sometime in the early second century.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Lmao. John is literally fanfiction written way after all the others.
      >Duhh but duh church man says they’re called John so they must be written by John duhhhh

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >Lmao. John is literally fanfiction written way after all the others.
        This is correct.

        John (eyewitness account) was written first around 40, followed by Luke around 55, then Matthew sometime in the 60s. Mark was written last as a short version of Matthew sometime in the early second century.

        >John (eyewitness account) was written first around 40, followed by Luke around 55, then Matthew sometime in the 60s. Mark was written last as a short version of Matthew sometime in the early second century.
        This is 100% pulled out of someone's ass and not in line with the historical evidence we have.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Repent and believe in the Gospel.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Repent and believe in the Gospel.
            I do. Matthew and Mark are legitimate gospels. It's all we need. If you think you need something more than the sermon on the mount, that is your issue.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus is the pre-existent Son of God through whom all things were created. If you deny this you will burn in Hell for all eternity.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Jesus didn't say that. I only abide by Jesus' commandments. He didn't leave anything important out of the sermon on the mount.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous
          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Fanfiction.jpg

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Use your words anon.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Fanfiction dot jay peg

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's pronounced jee-pique.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >Calling the deepest account of Jesus "fanfiction'
          We need another Albigensian Crusade

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            John was written many decades after Jesus was crucified. Many decades after Mark and Matthew. For half a century, Christians had no idea of the Gospel of John because it didn't exist. They weren't any less Christian. I am just like them.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            False. Some scholars point to dates as early as 37 AD for the composition of John.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >Some scholars point to dates as early as 37 AD for the composition of John.
            I don't care. The early church already dated them. Mark and Matthew were first.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            fringe

            [...]
            how do you know?

            I'm willing to go so far as to assert that the Holy Gospel according to St. John was created by God at the beginning of time and then dictated word for word by the Holy Spirit to John immediately after Christ's Resurrection to enlighten all nations about God's plan of salvation in accordance with God's foreknowledge of all things.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            what reason could you possibly have to believe that?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It was revealed to me by the Blessed Virgin Mary in an apparition.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Based and Epiphany-pilled.
            What outher "reason" does one need beside the eternal wisdom of the Holy Spirit?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Based and Epiphany-pilled.
            What outher "reason" does one need beside the eternal wisdom of the Holy Spirit?

            I'dd rather do the Bible, than a ghost told me

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Or... it's fan fiction.
            Matthew is good enough.

            His direct, personal experiences? John was having breakfast with the royal official or something when the guy heard about Jesus coming to town? He was tailing the royal official when the guy was going home until he met the servants telling him his son was alive, then John stuck around to see the entire household convert too? He was stalking the guy Jesus healed even after Jesus had gone elsewhere, then he followed the guy when he went to tattle on him to the israelites?

            I guess John must have been an ancient spy or maybe a literal fly, that'd explain how he was present to overhear Pilate doing backroom deals with the israeli dealers, or Pilate's private questioning of Jesus.

            You do not have the guidance of the Spirit within you. Get down on your knees and pray for the forgiveness of Almighty God.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Could you think you have the guidance of the holy spirit and be wrong about it?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No. The Holy Spirit has spoken directly to me and performed miraculous deeds.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            How do you this isn't just a clever demon?
            If it's saying unbiblical stuff, that should be a give away

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The true translation and understanding of the Scriptures is being revealed to me by the Spirit. It has driven out demons and glorified the name of Jesus Christ.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >book is literally in he Bible
            >unbiblical
            The absolute state of whatever you are

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            This is called pride.
            Humility is only called for.

          • 2 years ago
            Supreme Elder of the Church

            I have been personally anointed by the Spirit as the leader of all Christians. I am only following the will of God the Most High.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You are not.

          • 2 years ago
            Supreme Elder of the Church

            Some will repent and others will deny to the end. Consider the fate of your eternal soul.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Lots of pious Christian men and women have had revelations. Were they all proud?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The overwhelming majority, yes. They are not real revelations. Saying Mathew isn't good enough as a gospel, alone, is saying Jesus' sermon on the mount is not good enough. The holy spirit doesn't deliver such blasphemy.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            The Holy Spirit is in all the NT. I will accept no other opinion.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            No, that's impossible. The Holy Spirit never lies, knows everything, and is never wrong.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Could you think you have the guidance of the holy spirit and be wrong about it?

            Then how do you explain me having an opposing view, I too have been guided by the holy spirit
            I cannot be wrong about that

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            If you believe everything in the NT you have the Holy Spirit's guidance and can never go wrong.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >a ghost
            Did you just call the Holy Spirit "a ghost"? I mean, He is more than that to put it very mildly.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I'm just not granting that apparitions that looks like women are legit Godstuff, it may be a run-of-the-mill ghost

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            All the NT is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. There is no debate or discussion.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >All the NT is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. There is no debate or discussion.
            What sort of nonsense is this? Both catholics and protestants debated (and still disagree) about which books are inspired.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Whoever disbelieves any part of the NT is a heretic.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Or... it's fan fiction.
            Matthew is good enough.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            fringe

            If there was a ~~*Q*~~ and it was relevant to our Salvation, then God would have told us about it.

            how do you know?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Because my edition of the NT does not have a Q gospel or a Q apostolic letter for that matter.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Why is that preventing a Q source from existing?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            If it does, it is not important to our Salvation.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      >John (eyewitness account)
      the gospel of john literally opens with

      1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.
      6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

      does that sound like a fricking eyewitness account to you, you fricking mongoloid?

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        Why are atheists so intentionally stupid? The prologue is an account of the pre-existence of Christ which John learned about as a disciple.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          moron

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            I accept your concession.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >you disagree with me therefor you're conceding
            double moron, surely you won't go for the third strike, right?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Now that you've been refuted, are you ready to accept the love of Christ?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Oh my bad, the eyewitness account starts later huh?

          >23 Now when He was in Jerusalem at the Passover, during the feast, many believed in His name as they observed His signs which He was doing. 24 But Jesus, on His part, was not entrusting Himself to them, because He knew all people, 25 and because He did not need anyone to testify about mankind, for He Himself knew what was in mankind.
          Damn, those are some good eyes he had. He can even read minds apparently.

          >4 So then, when the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that He was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2 (although Jesus Himself was not baptizing; rather, His disciples were), 3 He left Judea and went away again to Galilee. 4 And He had to pass through Samaria. 5 So He *came to a city of Samaria called Sychar, near the parcel of land that Jacob gave to his son Joseph; 6 and Jacob’s well was there. So Jesus, tired from His journey, was just sitting by the well. It was about [b]the sixth hour. 7 A woman of Samaria came to draw water. Jesus said to her, “Give Me a drink.” 8 For His disciples had gone away to the city to buy food.
          Wow, he can even spy on Jesus when he's all the way over in the city.

          Face it, John isn't an "eyewitness account" at all, arguably the other gospels are closer to that than John.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            cope

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            seethe

            >And there was a royal official whose son was sick at Capernaum. 47 When he heard that Jesus had come from Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and began asking Him to come down and heal his son; for he was at the point of death. 48 Then Jesus said to him, “Unless you people see [n]signs and wonders, you simply will not believe.” 49 The royal official *said to Him, “[o]Sir, come down before my child dies.” 50 Jesus *said to him, “Go; your son [p]is alive.” The man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him and went home. 51 And as he was now going down, his slaves met him, saying that his [q]son was [r]alive. 52 So he inquired of them the hour when he began to get better. Then they said to him, “Yesterday at the [s]seventh hour the fever left him.” 53 So the father knew that it was at that hour in which Jesus said to him, “Your son is alive”; and he himself believed, and his entire household.

            >8 Jesus *said to him, “Get up, pick up your pallet and walk.” 9 Immediately the man became well, and picked up his pallet and began to walk. Now it was a Sabbath on that day. 10 So the israelites were saying to the man who was cured, “It is a Sabbath, and it is not permissible for you to carry your pallet.” 11 But he answered them, “He who made me well was the one who said to me, ‘Pick up your pallet and walk.’” 12 They asked him, “Who is the man who said to you, ‘Pick it up and walk’?” 13 But the man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away while there was a crowd in that place. 14 Afterward, Jesus *found him in the temple and said to him, “Behold, you have become well; do not sin anymore, so that nothing worse happens to you.” 15 The man went away, and informed the israelites that it was Jesus who had made him well.

            these are literally just stories, not accounts from any particular person's viewpoint.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's written in third person but based on John's direct personal experiences.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Of course it is. John was a humble man (all saints were when guided by the Holy Spirit). He expressed his humility in his writing style. Not that the others were any less humble or divinely guided, but they just wrote differently.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            His direct, personal experiences? John was having breakfast with the royal official or something when the guy heard about Jesus coming to town? He was tailing the royal official when the guy was going home until he met the servants telling him his son was alive, then John stuck around to see the entire household convert too? He was stalking the guy Jesus healed even after Jesus had gone elsewhere, then he followed the guy when he went to tattle on him to the israelites?

            I guess John must have been an ancient spy or maybe a literal fly, that'd explain how he was present to overhear Pilate doing backroom deals with the israeli dealers, or Pilate's private questioning of Jesus.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >israeli dealers
            ah, freudian slip.

            >33 Therefore Pilate entered the Praetorium again, and summoned Jesus and said to Him, “You are the King of the israelites?” 34 Jesus answered, “Are you saying this [l]on your own, or did others tell you about Me?” [insert a long conversation]
            >And after saying this, he came out again to the israelites and *said to them, “I find no grounds at all for charges in His case.

            >Pilate *said to them, “Take Him yourselves and crucify Him; for I find no grounds for charges in His case!” 7 The israelites answered him, “We have a law, and by that law He ought to die, because He made Himself out to be the Son of God!”
            >8 Therefore when Pilate heard this statement, he was even more afraid; 9 and he entered the Praetorium again and *said to Jesus, “Where are You from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 So Pilate said to Him[...]

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Oh and of course, that time when they found the empty tomb.

            > 3 So Peter and the other disciple left, and they were going to the tomb. 4 The two were running together; and the other disciple ran ahead, faster than Peter, and came to the tomb first; 5 and he stooped to look in, and *saw the linen wrappings lying there; however he did not go in. 6 So Simon Peter also *came, following him, and he entered the tomb; and he *looked at the linen wrappings lying there, 7 and the face-cloth which had been on His head, not lying with the linen wrappings but folded up in a place by itself. 8 So the other disciple who had first come to the tomb also entered then, and he saw and believed.
            >10 So the disciples went away again to their own homes.

            >11 But Mary was standing outside the tomb, weeping; so as she wept, she stooped to look into the tomb; 12 and she *saw two angels in white sitting, one at the head and one at the feet, where the body of Jesus had been lying. 13 And they *said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She *said to them, “Because they have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they put Him.” 14 When she had said this, she turned around and *saw Jesus standing there, and yet she did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus *said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Thinking that He was the gardener, she *said to Him, “Sir, if you have carried Him away, tell me where you put Him, and I will take Him away.” 16 Jesus *said to her, “Mary!” She turned and *said to Him in [a]Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means, Teacher).
            >18 Mary Magdalene *came and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord,” and that He had said these things to her.
            If the "beloved disciple" is John (who else could John be here?) he was definitely not besides Mary when she met the angels and Jesus. Sure, Mary related what she saw and heard, but do you think she told them "and then I called him "Rabboni", yes, in Hebrew" ?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Good observations.

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >implying you only see with your physical eyes
        >implying St. John was not divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit who is literally God
        Why do I even bother to explain such a simple concept?

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      Not sure if there is enough evidence for this, but it is an absolutely BASED take. I like all NT, but John has a certain power to it. Hard to explain.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous
  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    If there was a ~~*Q*~~ and it was relevant to our Salvation, then God would have told us about it.

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