>Rap is not music for one thing, I mean it isn't music, it's talking. That's what it says: rap. Rap means talking. It's not music. It's talking in meter, it's got rhyme and it has meter. It has rhythm. It's not music. People who get to be great at rap are not great musicians, they're just great at rap. There's no road from rapping into music. Music is something you can get better, and better, and better at, I don't know if you can do that with rap. I don't know whether it has that kind of space in it, or that it leads off into infinite number of possibilities. Music does.
jam isn't music
It's odd he said that because he definitely undestood the concept of music based in rhythm or in soundscape. The Grateful Dead always had a section in their concert for that, 'Drums & Space'.
Additionally Jerry was pretty educated in avant guard music and his bassist Phil Lesh had actually studied and practiced avant/modern composition earlier on
And I don't think it's a stretch to make the connection with avant compostition if Jerry were to look for a recognizably musical element in rap, given that the time he probably said this it had more dissonant beats. But then he shouldn't have seen the rapping part as necessarily something that couldn't go over such beats or soundscapes; he and the Dead had been really influenced by the Beat poets and I'm pretty sure in their earlier Acid Test shows they probably had Ken Kesey etc sort of rapping along with their soundscapes
On the other hand, I can understand how if an older guy had spent years becoming very accomplished at conventional music theory, it might seem alienating seeing younger music just sampling beats. But again, the Dead literally did stuff like this too and he should have got it. I mean, he was just being a grumpy older guy when he said it.
Keep in mind this is regarding rapping not the backing track and it's in the context of the early 80s where rapping was a nacent art form with all the limitations of a brand new art form think sugar hill gang not rakim or nas .
They were ass. The only songs of theirs I love are the studio versions of Dark Star and Touch Of Grey. I never picked up anything of value from their jams. I actually prefer QMS - Happy Trails to their entire output.
Gerry understood the silence that served as the bedrock for creativity and he respected it- unlike the grinning pimps of the rap world. He’d toured with Bob Dylan - he earned his right to say this.
YOU ANY KINDA ARTIST?
I’m an NYU film school graduate sucker! I’ve studied classical, I’ve studied contemporaneously.
AND WHO ARE YOU? YOU'RE A NOBODY! SHAME ON YOU!
YOU'RE NOTHING
Music is generally defined as the art of arranging sound to create some combination of form, harmony, melody, rhythm or otherwise expressive content.
Definitions in the dictionary are often the result of cultural politics.
So given all the political correctness that shapes every public discourse in the West now, I'm sure you're going to find that on Wikipedia music is defined in such a way that it allows including rap/spoken word in what passes for music.
That's also because of all the modernistic wankery that completely ruined setting any limits to what music or art can be. Since even silence is considered music according to this 'anything goes' modernistic definition, then speaking or making fart noises with your anus can also be considered music.
>that it allows including rap/spoken word in what passes for music.
They have always been considered music lol. I'm curious to know about your rigid totally not biased definition of music. And yes art and music are subjective and anything can be music.
>And yes art and music are subjective and anything can be music.
This is what I'm talking about. This is your brain on democracy: I have rights, therefore what I say is equally valid, so every theory on aesthetics is correct because everyone is worthy of respect and it's all subjective.
That's what actually destroyed the artistic act. Inflation through self entitlement.
>I have rights, therefore what I say is equally valid, so every theory on aesthetics is correct because everyone is worthy of respect and it's all subjective.
Literally all true. And you want to convince others that this is supposed to be a bad thing? Keep coping and seething about MUH REAL ART over urinals lol
Whatever I don't give a shit.
This is what's going to make all music worthless, inflating its concept.
Turning ghetto gorilla battle cries into music then wondering where did it all go wrong, why is music so trash these days.
It's because of lack of boundaries.
Don't newline after every sentence if you're trying to look like you care about prescriptive standards.
Ghetto gorilla battle cries sounds sick actually. Keep crying about muh musical and artistic purity though, that sure worked in stopping people the last time the nazis tried to do something about it lol
Keep being a pleb with shit taste
Thanks friend, now I will continue enjoying some top quality fart nosie compilations and some ghetto gorilla battle cry records
>I'm curious to know about your rigid totally not biased definition of music.
Music needs tonal variation to express a feeling. Music is not just random sounds of any source. If so, then the background noise emitted by the surrounding physical reality is all music.
Yeah I know there's going to be that ultimate hipster who will say it is, because mah John Cage or whatever.
No, the aesthetic act needs to be intentional.
>No, the aesthetic act needs to be intentional.
And John Cage's art wasn't intentional?
It's an abstract/philosophical gimmick, like much of modernistic art.
And a direct consequence of the modernistic tenet (following Duchamp) that art is what the artist decrees it is.
>that art is what the artist decrees it is.
That's not what Duchamp believed though?
>"The creative act is not performed by the artist alone; the spectator brings the work in contact with the external world by deciphering and interpreting its inner qualifications and thus adds his contribution to the creative act."
There's no contradiction between that quote and the idea that art is what the artist decrees it is.
Because the spectator is brought in front of a work of art that has gained that status simply by someone declaring it art.
So yes, the scam of modern art goes deep and Duchamp was trolling the art world by saying what you read in that quote: the spectator is left baffled with his mind running circles, seeking possible "deep" meaning behind a urinal. That was Duchamp's troll move and everyone followed him.
So now a huge distorted tube made of clay and exposed in a room is modern art and the viewer will just sit there, in front of it and rack his brains trying to "make sense of it" when there's no meaning at all.
Or maybe the spectator has multiple reasons to like or find meaning in art and not just for the limited aesthetic reasons. A huge distorted clay tube can be more impactful than a boring realistic statue
>make random shape
>display it in a gallery
>viewer comes and keeps looking intensely at the work and searching for a meaning
>the meaning is just a mirror of what he already thought
>there was no art, your thoughts could just see art in any random object in the world
>everything can be art so everything is art
>the whole world is art, so nothing is art
>everything can be art so everything is art
>the whole world is art, so nothing is art
Wow that's deep man.
>the same sound is music or not depending on the psychological state of the person who made it
brittle
i’m not interested in music. i listen to recordings, whether they qualify according to your fucking chickenshit homosexual standard or not. rock n roll was disregarded as ‘not music’ in the 50s by fucking useless pieces of shit like you.
Tbf, most rock is low IQ normie goyslop, especially in the 50s
More like (c)rap
The Grateful Dead invented rap
It's music, just bad music.
What a fucking nerd loser
Based! (I listen to fag rap)
You forgot to mention that you are also trans btw
So you suck dick too?
Heh, kinda. Rap is my favorite genre!
So do you like to have your white bussy be plowed by a BBC?
Wtf is he even talking about? Music doesn’t even need lyrics, who gives a shit if it’s “talking in meter” instead of singing?
>who gives a shit if it’s “talking in meter” instead of singing?
People with good taste, which you clearly don't have if you like rap
Ok so you’re just a pretentious dickhole
So drummers aren't musicians becaues they only use rhythm?
I guess you'd say that drummers actually use differences in pitch wihle drumming. But so do rappers.
Also pepole don't think of acapella when they think of rap. They think of the whole package with a beat including multiple instruments in the background.
Is finger tapping your table because you're bored music?
To me music cannot exist without notes, without tonal variations that express a feeling
Yes finger tapping is very much musical. Are you seriously arguing that it isn't?
No I'm saying it is not music in itself and on its own. It's like mentally simulating a musical piece by tapping its rhythm since you don't have other instruments, but the actual melody is playing in your head
Holy shit. Is this like some kind of larp where half the people pretend to be pretentious cunts while the other half are also pretending to be pretentious cunts but different?
Welcome to LULZ newfriend 🙂
Yeah I usually dont leave /x/ nowadays. I kinda wanted to ask people for help about a band/album im looking for but reading through some of these threads I might be better off asking people on reddit. Even though I already know how thats going to end.
What band are you looking for?
I am pretty certain it was called Sun S/T. The album art looked stylistically similar to Walking Into The Forest by The Pilgrim but prominently featuring a lizard or frog in the center with a snake hidden to the side and a variation of desert flower and rocks sprinkled about. Most notable on the Album for me was the second track which had an intro of rainforesty sounds slowly intensifying into a crescendo at which point the regular fuzzy stoner goodness set in.
Hey can someone parse that into an AI and see if it has an answer?
Is it this lol? Probably not
https://missedoutrecords.bandcamp.com/album/sun-up-sun-down-s-t-ep
Oh wait shit I'm retarded I didn't read the rest of your description
Thanks but thats a cat
Have you tried searching any where else? Discogs? Any other details you have about it?
That is sadly all I can remeber about it.
Ive looked through the catalogue of every Youtube channel uploading albums of the style.
Ive put the cover description into google in multiple variations and looked through all results. Discogs ive not yet tried because im a goober, gonna do that now.
Thanks for offering me another venue of research
Discogs did it almost instantly....Ive spend A YEAR. god dammned. Also fuck my memory was waaaayyyy off.
Congrats, seems like a cool album. Might check it out later
This proves rap isn't art, anybody can do it. Rap is a joke genre some seriously retarded people don't understand is a joke, thus becoming jokes to everyone else looking at them.
>is supposed to be proof that rap is bad
>is actually an incredibly based album
What did he mean by this?
>Violin isn't music. It's a piece of wood with strings. It is an object. It's not sound, unless someone picks it up and plays it, in which case you would still need a skilled player to make it sound good. Even then, it's bowing strings in a certain order. It's got melody and it has meter, but it doesn't have rhythm because there is no real percussion and shockingly little variation in timbre. Good violinists aren't musicians, they're just great at playing the violin and don't have any musical creativity*. There's no road from being second violin in an orchestra to joining a band. Music is something you can get better, and better and better at, and I don't play an instrument so idk if you can do that with violin idk. idk anything really I don't have any experience I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about but rap definitely has infinite possibilities and anything I don't have a lot of experience with must be easy as fuck.
inb4 "music is that thing where there's harmony and melody and those weird letters like Cmaj7 and stuff" all tunings are bullshit anon have you tried playing 9.5edo? If there's more theory about something, then it's probably just easier to describe, not more interesting or complex.
*Not joking, it's actually depressing how many technically skilled musicians will refuse to compose anything of their own.
Rap doesn't have infinite possiblities, it's literally just talking over a beat, that's all it is and all it can be
The meters used in rap are extremely precise and specific: rappers usually call it "flow", though. It's just that if you're used to white-accessible music then anything but boring beat-for-beat singing won't register as being creatively premeditated. If you're not paying attention, rap sounds like regular talking because the meters are more wonky and asymmetrical, but you have more options if you use them. It's just like how jazz sounds bad to people because to them the chords sound like random notes rather than more complex harmonies.
>extremely precise and specific
>creatively premeditated
Die
rude
>it's just singing over an accompaniment, and that's all it can be
At least something good came out of this shitty thread