Philippine Navy's Shitty History

Was the Philippine Navy always this shit? Why did they let it be this way?

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  1. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    They are primitive in general so it's no wonder their navy is subpar, historically they had lots of different types of ships, but of course making a wooden ship and a hypertechnological steel warship are two different things

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      You'd think with the numerous traders and colonizers to their country for over hundreds of years, they'd learn a thing or two on how to craft galley-tier ships and be a powerful naval power on the level of Japan. Did they just let the Yanks carry them? Just one of the many wasted potentials from these brownies.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        They did build some huge ships, including some galley-like ships that their pirates used.

        Recently a huge Philippine ship was discovered dating back to 800 years ago, it was at least 25 meters long. The discovery of well preserved ships from South East Asia are not exactly common, I knew of the Belitung shipwreck (which was Arab tho, not Indonesian), and a few others, so this find surprised me:

        https://paperdrawing.com/prog-2-the-butuan-mothership/

        It was found in the area of the kingdom of Butuan in the Philippines, which had at least a merchant fleet able to interact regularly with China:

        In fact, Filipino seafarers from Butuan were already exploring Asia over a thousand years ago, well ahead of our Chinese neighbors: As early as 1001 AD, the Song Dynasty recorded the arrival of a diplomatic mission from the “Kingdom of Butuan.”

        “In 1003 AD, a Butuan chieftain petitioned the Chinese Imperial Court to allow it to bring its products direct to Guandong —instead of using Champa as the entrepôt (main trading post),” Azurin added. However, according to Azurin, the petition was declined because the Court insisted on regulating trade via Champa. He also says that Butuan may also have played a major role in the spread of culture and religion in the Philippines long before Christianity and even Islam came to the islands. “The boat’s possible deeper significance is that it may be one of the carriers of Hindu-Buddhist cultural influence in the Philippine Archipelago long before Islam and Christianity arrived here

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          1890 illustration by Rafael Monleón of a late 19th-century Iranun lanong warship with three banks of oars under full sail

          (The Iranun were a tribe of the Philippine archipelago)

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous
          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Colored detail of a lanong by Rafael Monleón

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Banguingui garay ships by Rafael Monleón (1890)

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            1863 illustration of the Tartar, a garay from Sulu commissioned by Thomas Forrest in his 1774 expedition to New Guinea

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Dr. Scott also hinted at the existence of even more impressive vessels: “The most celebrated Visayan vessel was the warship called Karakoa, which could mount forty meter-long oars on a side. The care and technique with which (Filipinos) build them makes their ships sail like birds, while ours are like lead in comparison,” Dr. Scott quoted a Spanish priest as having written in 1667.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            They lost their thunder so bad I'm reminded of how they squandered their fortunes from the 50's. It's like a constant theme in Flip history.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Sustainability has never been their strong suit. They would rather blow their load on useless vanity projects or pocket money as is typical of Latin influenced shitholes.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Colored detail of a lanong by Rafael Monleón

            Banguingui garay ships by Rafael Monleón (1890)

            1863 illustration of the Tartar, a garay from Sulu commissioned by Thomas Forrest in his 1774 expedition to New Guinea

            Interesting. When did they stop progress at ship building? When the Spaniards came?

            >country for over hundreds of years, they'd learn a thing or two on how to craft galley-tier ships and be a powerful naval power on the level of Japan
            The idea of “The Philippines” as a country did not exist until around 150 years ago compared to Japan which has existed as a culture for millennia.

            Same deal with Indonesia, but they managed to unify their islands into a centralized kingdom (Java).

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >When the Spaniards came?
            No, several galleons were built in Manila bay during Spanish rule and the construction of galleys used by pirates continued. Unlike Japan they didn't industrialize so they can't build a proper navy of modern warships like Japan does, since you need to be industrialized to build post-industrialization warships.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            So say a Butterfly effect happened and it was the Brits or the Dutch that took them, would they have learned to build steelships?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Brit
            They did, but they only held Manila for a year. Should've fricking stayed. I hate everything about Spaniards.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            No, considering Malaysia and Indonesia also had strong seafaring cultures prior to colonisation and also lack mass production of steelships, in spite of being colonised by the British and Dutch respectively.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >When the Spaniards came?

            Spaniards actually made use of Native boats for domestic shipping throughout the colonial period. They even exported some of the designs to thei Latin American colonies hence the presence of outrigger canoes there.

            Southeast Asians in general build excellent small craft, Filipinos included. But it turns out having no industrial base means you're gonna be a poorgay reliant on buying mothballed cutters and frigates from other countries.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Southeast Asians in general build excellent small craft, Filipinos included. But it turns out having no industrial base means you're gonna be a poorgay reliant on buying mothballed cutters and frigates from other countries.
            Which SEA has the best navy right now? Indonesia? Singapore?

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >country for over hundreds of years, they'd learn a thing or two on how to craft galley-tier ships and be a powerful naval power on the level of Japan
        The idea of “The Philippines” as a country did not exist until around 150 years ago compared to Japan which has existed as a culture for millennia.

  2. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Yes, all East Asian navy except China, are mediocre

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    So is it safe to say that there were no notable Filipino admirals at all?

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Decades of being heavily reliant on US support + being heavily politicized defines the AFP
    It also doesn't help that the Philippine Government has an underlying fear of being coup'd stemming from the 80s-90s when the Army can succesfully stage an insurrection so they would also have a stake in neutering it and relegating it to dealing with insurrections instead

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >It also doesn't help that the Philippine Government has an underlying fear of being coup'd stemming from the 80s-90s when the Army can succesfully stage an insurrection so they would also have a stake in neutering it and relegating it to dealing with insurrections instead

      Imagine being a straight laced officer having to deal with an impotent, underequipped, and unmotivated force. I would support them fully than any Flip politician. Sucks that this only worked in Thailand and Myanmar.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Myanmar is and was a shithole constantly wracked with insurgencies so I don’t think they’re a good example to follow.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          So is the Philippines, but it chose the toothless "diplomatic" route and look where it is now.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >implying Thailand and Myanmar are any better
            A country constantly on the verge of turning into a failed state and a country who can't even operate an Aircraft Carrier? I don't know what's worse to be honest

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Philippines already copies American style government with Spanish characteristics. Flips aren't in short supply of bad role models.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            It's not the bad role models that makes the country. It's the people that runs it

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            True, but I've never been a fan of the presidential system that the PH chose when its neighbors opted for parliamentary style. The latter is less grandstanding circus and bread bullshittery.

            So they remain cucked under a spanish king despite being ruled by drug using Philipino now?

            "Yeah I'll keep using my cuck name instead of going back to my roots"

            That's only the tip of the iceberg. Dig deeper into the history and you'll see the lasting effects of essentially being a slave colony for hundreds of years.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >The latter is less grandstanding circus and bread bullshittery.
            Most of Southeast Asian politics is that. They just do a better job of hiding it unless you listen to international news or you're somewhere where they report it openly

            There was a window in history that you could've been part of Indonesia. Not sure why you didn't take up on that offer.

            The Majapahit Empire didn't come close to vassalizing the Rajahnates,Sultanates and the Kingdoms that dotted the coasts of the Philippine Archipelago

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Most of Southeast Asian politics is that. They just do a better job of hiding it unless you listen to international news or you're somewhere where they report it openly
            The thing that makes the Philippines stood out was that it had a very vibrant and active journalist scene so the government couldn't keep its dirty laundry hidden for long. Of course, that's no longer the case with libel abuses, shutdowns, and outright assassinations being the order of the day.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Makes me wonder why people vote for inbred morons like Duterte when he's exactly the type of person nobody actually likes or would want running for office. Like, he was born with a charisma void and the man basically paints an image of hate, fear and a desire for control. But the Pinoy people seem equally moronic so no wonder he's their leader.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            You just answered your question. The Flips were riding on the American "Alt-Right" movement at its height. And in their infinite wisdom, they put in office the one guy that jeopardized the country's international standing and burned a lot of future investments. Don't get me wrong, Marcos Jr. is shady as frick with a lot of skeletons in his closet, but he has course corrected on a lot of political moves made by his predecessor. Still think his whole "friend to everyone, enemy to none" foreign policy is straight up ass licking to Xi though.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            How come Philippine’s politics become so Americanized?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Guess who was their last colonial ruler & the entity that built the modern Philippine government.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            How come America didn't do the same to Japan when they occupied them? They still followed a parliamentary model.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Because the US didn't see the Revolutionary Government of the Philippines as a legitimate entity following the Spanish-American War and the subsequent Filipino-American War and their whole intent with conquering the Philippines was to have a foot in Asia as well as the white man's burden meaning they are responsible for bringing up the Philippines
            Japan was recognized internationally at best but they were treated in a way that made them feel that the Western Powers didn't see them as an equal nation

            >Brit
            They did, but they only held Manila for a year. Should've fricking stayed. I hate everything about Spaniards.

            >implying we would be better off if the British colonized us
            Weak mentality.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Weak mentality.
            It's about pragmatism. The Spaniards were trash colonizers, better to pick the one empire that had the best track record. Being part of the East India Company is a major plus compared to whatever the frick the friars were doing.

            No, considering Malaysia and Indonesia also had strong seafaring cultures prior to colonisation and also lack mass production of steelships, in spite of being colonised by the British and Dutch respectively.

            And yet somehow their navies are better equipped. There's an underlying cultural influence from which Euro controlled them.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >And yet somehow their navies are better equipped.
            Because they rely less on the United States for defence.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >And yet somehow their navies are better equipped.
            Because they rely less on the United States for defence.

            I could've phrased this better. The Philippines and US have a mutual defence pact whereas Indonesia and Malaysia do not. Moreover, Indonesia has traditionally pursued its own path in its regional neighbourhood. In response, Malaysia has better equipped itself to respond to Indonesia in a naval arms race on a smaller scale. The Philippines has the luxury to sit back and let someone else do the heavy lifting, while their navy is relagated to dealing with domestic matters, which also hinder its ability to project power in areas without US backing, such as the Spratley Islands, and their claim to Sabah. Their only threat would be China, and there'll be no fight with China without the US.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            But why did they kick the Americans out of the bases like Clark then? Were horny GI's that big of a problem that they were willing to risk becoming a "junior partner" (aka only get the bare minimum of materiel and small scale exercises.)?

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >In 2022, the United States and Philippine governments quietly began preparations for U.S. forces to return to the facility amid heightened tensions with China
            Clark is the Air Base, Subic Bay is the naval one, and it's back. And it's been used by the US Navy again since 2015 unofficially
            >But why did they kick the Americans out of the bases like Clark then? Were horny GI's that big of a problem
            They didn't. and they weren't. The US left over disagreements with how much they'd pay in lease. In the 90s, the Philippines wanted $825mil for seven years, whereas the US was only willing to offer $360mil for ten years. Corazon Aquino had to accept the fact they were leaving rather and did. And lo and behold, the US is back.

            Either way, just bc the US ceased using these bases, didn't mean they weren't nearby and could still meaningfully defend the Philippines if push came to shove. US Armed Forces remain in Singapore, South Korea, Japan, and Guam. They also regularly patrol near Taiwan, and in their former Pacific Trust Territories.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Sure, but why doesn't the US station themselves back like they still do in Japan and South Korea and give them access to high level tech weaponry like F-35's or at least the Arleigh Burke destroyers? I'm still of the belief that after the 90's, they see the Philippines as an unreliable partner hence why it's viewed by military experts as its weakest link in its Asia-Pacific sphere of influence.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >still blaming the Spanish despite nearly a century of independence instead of realizing that Filipinos are gutter trash that will backstab each other if it meant elevating themselves
            Cucked and r/Philippines tier.

            How durable were they? Were they able to reach as far as the Middle East?

            They travelled the Pacific Ocean to get to Mexico and back to the Philippines. They never travelled beyond to the Middle East

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >still blaming the Spanish despite nearly a century of independence instead of realizing that Filipinos are gutter trash that will backstab each other if it meant elevating themselves
            >Cucked and r/Philippines tier.
            So says the self-hating cuck. Sniff your own shit first before throwing it back.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            You're lucky you posted this when the Flips are in bed or you would've gotten more (You)s than you'd like.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Majapahit once invaded the kingdoms of Sulu and Manila (Solot and Saludong in the Nagarakretagama) however the 2 Filipino kingdoms rebelled and sacked Poni (Brunei) which remained loyal to Majapahit kek.

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Here's question; Why are people in the Philipines, an Asian country, named shit like Rodriguez, Chavez and so on and so forth?

    Why is half the country, if not more, latino named?

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      It's named after a Spanish king. Connect the dots from there.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        So they remain cucked under a spanish king despite being ruled by drug using Philipino now?

        "Yeah I'll keep using my cuck name instead of going back to my roots"

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          The Philippines didn't even exist back then.
          Blame it on everyone's eschewed view of history and thinking the Philippines that exists now is a continuation of ooga booga tribes that were vassalized by petty Kings

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            There was a window in history that you could've been part of Indonesia. Not sure why you didn't take up on that offer.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Philippine Maritime History is Kino. The Age of Explorations' largest Galleons, the Manila Galleons were built in the Philippines.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      How durable were they? Were they able to reach as far as the Middle East?

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Flips chimping out at other Flips
    This is probably one of the main roadblocks to your progress. Prosperous, rich countries become what they are because their people have a common goal and are willing to unite. You got fed with the American individualist doctrine too prematurely.

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