Here's an example: Say you stub your toe, and now you're forced to have an experience that you don't desire, against your will.
What's the truth in that pain? It's the ugly truth of believing in a reality where "things can happen whether you want them to or not". Clearly.
And that belief is so deep in us that most people take it as the definition of "real" (that which doesn't stop being true whether you want it to or not). This is a direct consequence of believing you're a thing inside a reality which is your master, rather than being that reality itself.
The next problem is that when people wake up to the fact they're manifesting it all they'll tend to think they have to love the pain, because "it's me"... And that's what countless "gurus" will tell you. But it's a literal paradox.
Because pain is to receive what you want to not receive, so if you love it then the pain becomes what you want and they say "problem solved".
No... The problem is not fucking solved because that is literally what got you here in the first place. That's just more belief that it's not really your choice. And from that belief more TRUTH in the form of things violating your will will manifest.
Trying to manifest a better reality before facing this truth will just lead to the same old context of "things can happen against my will, even in my new reality". And more pain will still come.
Awakening is hard because it's not all sunshine and rainbows. You've been asleep while your bed was burning, and if you tell yourself the fire is water then you're still dreaming.
To truly awaken is to truly LOOK AT what manifests from your souls current state. And you wouldn't be seeking enlightenment if you actually liked it.
You have to first clear out the stuff in your soul that's causing you to believe you're powerless before you can truly manifest a better mode of existence.
I GOT A LUCID DREAM WHERE I WAS NEXT TO A HOSPITAL, IGUESS EVEN SPIRITS NEED TO GO TO A DOCTOR
Hm. My dad was a Lt. Colonel (airborne/ranger)
He said a couple things that remind me of what you said. In weird army speak, of course.
>Pain is simply the sensation of weakness leaving the body
>You’re only cold if you let yourself be cold
Both are deceptively simple but once internalized, have helped me immensely in uncomfortable physical situations. I could possibly apply them spiritually as well but I hadn’t thought of it until I read your thread. Nice post, anon.
Can post more army wisdom, if anybody is interested. Dad was officer, like I mentioned and despite being a PhD of political science, still manages to be conservative in the right areas. Fairly based dude, I guess.
roll the cubes, hand-carry the spheres
depends on how you got into a painful situation
I can put you through something painful that makes no sense and is fabricated nonsense to control your responses
you can also go through something painful that leads to avoidance which is a pattern you must break to advance in life
>and now you're forced to have an experience that you don't desire, against your will
you can add or subtract its relevance and attention to it lmao
boohoo le neuron signals omg
Pain can be a decent teacher, but it is not necessary either. You can know fire is hot without being burned by it. You can know a knife is sharp without being cut. You can know a gun can kill or destroy all by simple observation and implications of the physical laws you are already aware of.
Absolutely, but the point of the OP is when we choose to remain ignorant then it will manifest as that pain.
>You can know fire is hot without being burned by it.
But what happens when your soul believes fire is necessary, but simultaneously wishes to remain ignorant of the fact that it can burn you?
The fact that fire is a part of your souls belief means that burning will manifest. And if we remain ignorant of that then it will seem like "pain" because our ignorance causes us to be shocked that the fire burned us.
That's what people are doing in this "world". The average person (even many spiritual people) have the belief of an external world that can literally do whatever the fuck it wants to them. That's the CORE belief of what they think "reality" must be.
And then at the same time they're surprised when it manifests as pain.
I like this fire analogy.
I can make the OP point even more simple: It's like people want to have fire without burning.
People want to live in a world that controls them and simultaneously not be controlled.
They can spend lifetimes trying to build systems of rules, logic, "justice", but the burning will still happen, because it's the truth of fire.
Being controlled, and events occurring against your will is the TRUTH of an external world.
The problem is not that it manifests from those rotten foundations (like burning manifesting from fire), the problem is the foundation itself. If you don't want burning then you have to stop believing in fire.
If you don't want to have your will violated then you have to stop believing in a reality that allows it. As long as that belief remains there is NOTHING that can be done within the context of that foundation that will fix it.
And this is the mistake all "evil" people are making. They think they can rise above it, but the pain they create is the truth of their reality, and it will eventually manifest for them, because the soul cannot remain ignorant forever.
None of this is on the right track at all. You stub your toe to balance duality. Its literally a good thing when you "stub your toe"
T. Has led a sheltered life.
If someone follows a child into a back and knife rapes them to death did that little kid manifest that into reality?
Stop being insensitive to others suffering just because you’re so detached from reality that you cope.
You are a bag of meat… rotten useless meat judging by your post.
>If someone follows a child into a back and knife rapes them to death did that little kid manifest that into reality?
It's a consequence of the idea of a reality where "things can happen against your will".
Do you understand what that really means? The very concept of a reality that can do whatever it wants to you is a fucking ABYSS. A knife in the back of a child is small peanuts compared to what's possible if you hold such a belief within you.
If you keep believing "anything can happen to you against your will" then things like knives raping you in the back are allowed to happen by your belief that they're allowed to happen.
How can you tell me you're upset at children being stabbed while simultaneously believing in a reality that allows it? Shame on YOU for believing that.
As long as you keep trying to prevent children from being stabbed while also believing they CAN be, then they will.
If you want to be free from a reality that controls your experience then stop believing in one.
And as long as you remain in denial that you can save children from being stabbed while simultaneously living in a reality that ALLOWS it, then that ignorance will result in more children being stabbed because that's the TRUTH of your manifest reality.
If you really want to save children from being stabbed then don't LIE to them that it can be prevented within this world (which allows it)... Instead teach their soul that they can transcend the idea of a reality where "anything can happen against their will". And live in a truly free existence where they are sovereign.
I want to believe you are correct… more than you know.
But I’m not sure I’m the one in denial here.
What is the worst thing that’s ever happened to you?… and why is it not your fault? Why is it? The world would be a better place if we all envisioned it, that’s not what I’m arguing.
I guess the best you can do is live each day and master your pain like riding the tiger idk...
No, that's the totally wrong conclusion to draw from the OP, and it's what I suspect this anon was also thinking
I'm telling you you can manifest a reality without it altogether. It's the belief that you can't, the belief that an external reality must exist that dictates your fate, that's causing pain to manifest FROM that belief.
Pain is only the truth of THAT belief, but if you had a different belief (like one where all conscious beings are sovereign) then there may be no pain and you would be the master of your own reality.
This is the problem with loa and all the enlightened we are god we manifest our reality shit. I get Op's point that the belief in the foundation of this external reality to influences us...but what if you were born retarded? you don't have the capacity to manifest shit. This subjective reality shit has been taken way to far. genetic abominations can chant om and vibrate on a higher plane. fetuses getting aborted didnt manifest getting yeeted before birth. Toddlers with cancer aren't even aware of cause and effect. It's a great philosophical exercise but eventually it becomes masturbatory
>but what if you were born retarded?
The mind is not who we are in the first place, and it's not required for spiritual growth.
Mind is just 1 experience among many, but people identify it as who they are creating the illusion of being a smaller thing inside a larger reality beyond your control.
And as for children being harmed, they may be an older soul than you for all we know. The appearance of a physical child is just an appearance. You're a child too. We're all children.
Of course we may disagree, that's fine. But my view is basically that the entire normal picture of how reality works is inside-out.
You don't do things that effect your soul, you do things because of the state your soul is already in (because you ARE the soul). But that also doesn't imply blame.
It's not anyone's fault when "bad things" happen it's just a consequence of beliefs held in the soul.
And like the OP says, that pain is effectively the truth of negative beliefs manifesting when we refuse to face it otherwise.
Your mind has convinced you to accept the belief that things can violate your will, but you also try to avoid pain within that context, meaning that you're trying to run away from the truth of the very reality you believe in which allows endless levels of pain.
>This subjective reality shit has been taken way to far.
Perhaps you misunderstand though. You can only share a reality through objectivity. It's ultimately subjective but you make your reality objective to "play" with other souls.
I think what I wrote above is relevant here too. I think "fault" is just a mental thing. There is no fault, there is only what manifests from our soul beliefs.
If you can't believe in a world where bad things can't happen, then that's kind of proving my point isn't it? We manifest a world where they CAN. I'm not saying you manifest bad stuff directly but through believing this is how things must be we connect with realities that allow it.
So if everyone can overcome this erroneous view of reality than a world without evil can manifest? That would be ideal. However what do the entities outside this dimension figure into this? They laid down the foundation and their observation maintains this reality. Does our belief overcome their observation? do we actually understand what we are dealing with if most are ignorant of this reality but those that are enlightened are still ignorant of the incomprehensible dimensions beyond? where does the line cross from faith and belief into cope and delusion?
I can only guess about entities living in higher realities, but if they're at all part of maintaining this system then the same ugliness is within themselves. It must be if it came from them.
And if they're holding it down then they will be the last ones to leave. "Many of the first will be last".
Personally I don't think there are any entities outside that are a part of it. The highest realization of existence is true freedom.
I would say anyone taking part is playing an egoic form within the system too.
>Does our belief overcome their observation?
In the highest truth observation is being. So if you ask me they aren't observing it (not really, if they're observing it's only symbolically [mentally]). Because if they were really observing it then they would become the unbearable pain they try to create (which will happen eventually, before they awaken too).
I really think this whole thing is just brought about by ignorance, and some entities _willingly_ choosing to expand their own ignorance and push ignorance onto others.
To not observe (become) the pain they create is literally to remain _ignorant_ of what they create. This is kind of what the OP is about.
To defeat that ignorance and leave this false world one must face up to the ignorance and stop running from the ugly truth of what has already manifested. You can't fix a problem if you're in denial - Your soul can't fix its reality if it keeps trying to believe the foundation is normal.
>where does the line cross from faith and belief into cope and delusion?
Probably in the mind. I say true belief is just the state your soul is in, and everything manifests from that state.
>I really think this whole thing is just brought about by ignorance, and some entities _willingly_ choosing to expand their own ignorance and push ignorance onto others.
This might be the crux of the problem then.
>You can't fix a problem if you're in denial - Your soul can't fix its reality if it keeps trying to believe the foundation is normal.
100% agree with this. It's all very counter intuitive though so it's difficult
>Probably in the mind. I say true belief is just the state your soul is in, and everything manifests from that state.
Good point. The mind may never be able to comprehend the scale or complexity of this situation but the soul just exists in whatever this state is understanding it intuitively. To logically use the mind would be to project and manifest reality in ignorance leading to this current mess
thanks anon, I'm underd0n0kvstanding op's point better
OP here. After sleeping on it and re-reading this thread I see that some things could have been worded better, and maybe the main point is a bit unclear.
So let me just say this bluntly: This idea is supposed to be uplifting. If it sounds depressing then I don't think the message is getting across.
I'm not calling pain "truth" to imply that it's unavoidable... I'm calling it "truth" to imply that your soul is learning even when your mind isn't (and awakening is inevitable).
Have you ever had a bad idea but kept trying to tell yourself it's a good one, even when it starts to go wrong? Those things that go wrong are the "truth" of your bad idea manifesting. And no matter how much you try to patch things up the "truth" of how bad the idea is will still come through.
So this whole reality is like a "bad idea" that your soul is trying to pretend is a good one. And when pain occurs it's your soul learning that how bad of an idea it is for a soul to believe it's a physical object "inside" a world subject to laws beyond its control.
Now take all the examples people posted of children being harmed. Instead of them having to go through an entire lifetime (or multiple lifetimes) of slow suffering like most of us are they just get it all at once.
(Maybe they're actually a really powerful soul who can "handle the truth").
That's what I mean when I say it's their truth manifesting. It wasn't intended to shame anyone, or assign blame. This reality IS ignorance, and any soul that's here MUST have ignorance within them. The only way to awaken to that ignorance is for the soul to stop pretending the bad idea was a good one (trying to "live" in this reality when we need to simply leave it behind).
Pain isn't the only way, but I think if someone is trying to avoid the truth in their mind then it will manifest another way, as physical pain. Because the soul WILL see truth one way or the other.
Exactly, I'm glad it makes sense to you
How much truth do babies manifest when they experience pic related?
Not looking at your image, but you all keep missing the point.
Think about it this way, why are you posting horrible stuff like that? Because you say it's real and yet you're somehow trying to use it as evidence against my point that pain is truth?
You're just proving my point. This reality IS ugly as fuck. And pain is that ugliness manifesting.
Where else do you think it comes from? You want to say someone else decides that baby should suffer? Then it's <---THAT belief that will manifest it.
That's the ignorance of this world. The belief that that soul's fate is not in its own hands.
And no matter how you try to justify it, more of that ugly truth will manifest from our own beliefs, as long as we keep believing that souls do not in control of their own existence.
There's a line at the end of the third matrix movie when seraph asks the Oracle if she always knew. She's says no, but she believed. It's a repeating theme throughout the series. The power of belief. Tank comes back to life and kills cypher as soon as trinity says she believes neo is the one. Morpheus says "he's beginning to believe" when neo stands up to the agents. "You got to let it all go. Fear, doubt and disbelief." Neo only becomes the one because his beliefs about himself change. Is this your point, bro-P? The power of belief?
Lol. This is some top tier socionics Beta NF mystic woo shit right here.
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did it work?