Ottomans

Why was the Ottoman army unable to reform and keep up with their European counterparts. They went from being the terror of the Christian world in the 16th century to a laughingstock by the 18th.

  1. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    ottomans were so cool

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Roach antennas typed this.

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        t. cockroach

        ottomans were super cool!

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      t. cockroach

  2. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    How they recruited and trained their troops was the reason. Why not enlist voluntary men to fight for the empire instead stealing little boys from their families and raising them as slave soldiers. The logic makes no sense.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Janissaries were not the entire Ottoman army. The devşirme system was abolished in 1648.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      >Why not enlist voluntary men to fight for the empire instead stealing little boys from their families and raising them as slave soldiers.
      Stealing little boys and raising them as slave soldiers worked. What didn't work is having those slave soldiers' kids being a hereditary military caste.
      Also they did have a lot of volunteer soldiers. Akinjis, Azabs, and various mercenaries.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Do you think Ottoman's entire military consists of Janissaries

      • 1 week ago
        Anonymous

        Janissaries were not the entire Ottoman army. The devşirme system was abolished in 1648.

        Not that guy, but the Janissaries were roughly to the Ottomans what the Praetorian Guard was to the Romans. They could depose Sultans at will (and did), regularly revolted for increased pay, and basically acted as an entrenched class that hindered as much as helped the Ottoman state up until the Auspicious Incident.

        To actually answer the OP, the Ottomans had a couple periods of long peace in the 18th century which contributed to stagnation, while their neighbors fought tons of wars and developed better doctrines.

  3. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    IMO it was okay. Austrians BTFO'd them hard in 17th century but they actually had managed somewhat considering they were fighting with the Russian hordes all the time. Now at some point they disbanded the Janissaries and that was when the real shitshow started.

  4. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    I will say for turks the same I say about spanish and russians, if they were so weak, why they lasted much more centuries that these bulwarks of progress (UK, France) that barely lasted one century as empires before collapsing to perpetual irrelevancy.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      The argument isn't that the Ottoman empire's administration was weak, or that the Ottoman armies were never strong. It's that the Ottoman armies became weak sometime in the 17-18th centuries, after centuries of being feared by Europe. The empire lasted as long as it did because the administration was logically built to last long (integrating local elites, keeping the common people poor and stupid for most of the empire's history, allowing people to keep their cultures but oppressing wrongthink).

      Because of all this it was relatively much more difficult for independence movements to develop in the Ottoman empire than elsewhere, which is why even when their armies were losing left and right in the middle of the age of nationalism, it still took 130 years (1789-1922) for the empire to lose all its non-Turkish territories, while the British and French empires became irrelevant a couple decades after their peak territorial extent. The Ottomans lasted longer because they were backwards, not because they were better.

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      Because they were propped up by the UK and France

  5. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    they were inflicting defeats on Europeans as late as WWI

    • 1 week ago
      Anonymous

      No one expected them to that well, though. They had emerged pretty badly from the Balkan wars. The OP's point stands.

  6. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Their legacy is perfectly represented by their modern namesake, a footstool.

  7. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    They did. It was just a bit too late and they played their cards wrong on several occasions.

  8. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    The Jannissary Corps overthrowing any Sultans attempting reforms. And after the destruction of the Jannissaries, the Sultans were paranoid and feared the idea of a powerful independent military less something like the Janissaries returned. Sultans deliberately crippled the Ottoman Army and centralized command, ironically, to a small corps of Western trained military officers who were directly loyal to the Sultans.

  9. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    Literacy rates

  10. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    >Be Ottomans.
    >200 years ago, to stop relying on the feudal armies of the Emirs & their Sipahi, the Osmanli Dynasty created a huge standing army loyal only to them composed of the Janissary Infantry & the Qapikulu Spahi (Household Cavalry).
    >It works utterly well: it dwarfed the armies of the Emirs & even outclassed tiny European armies.
    >Problem: unlike the Emirate/Timarli (fief) armies, the Dynastic army enjoyed regular salaries, comfy homes, cushy offices, and many other perks in exchange for them being permanently on duty for much of their lives as the realm's only professional standing army
    >This is something other soldiers & warriors of the Ottoman empire DID NOT ENJOY.
    >This bred a parasitic military class within the Empire that is very much against reforms for fear of losing their cushy position.
    >Specifically they were much against the expansion of the state army by adopting European methods such as mass conscription.

    >Only gets a wakeup call in the 1700s after the Russo-Turkish War, forcing Ottoman Sultans to reform the Army alongside 18th Century European lines.

    The Reformed army had very tasteful uniforms when compared to ostentatious European ones imo.

  11. 1 week ago
    Anonymous

    they let turks into corps instead of keeping them pure Serbian&Albanian

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