1st, .200:
Yank arms companies design their calibres to create niche markets. Think 6mm BR and .243. The invention of tapered barrels means the 6mm BR does exactly the same thing with a smaller, lighter, cheaper cartridge. They also design them for profit. Think of the .30 and its replacement, the .223. Same range, lighter projectile and a much larger cartridge. The greatest cost is the cartridge and running cost is the greatest long term expense. So let's go the other way:
.200 calibre: a 90gn projectile at 2700-3000fps, tubular cartridge with a steep taper, guns with a 1/3 tapered barrel and a range of interest of 400m. A 70gn deer projectile at 3000fps and a 55gn hollow point at 3250fps. A high twist rate. Thus replacing the .222 and the .22-250.
Notes:
+ a long 90gn projectile at 3000fps will be flat shooting. That's how aerodynamics works.
+ a tubular cartridge is cheap.
+ a steep taper prevents jamming, particularly at low temperatures (see the trouble the 6.5 Creedmore has in semi-auto. Constantly jamming).
+ a tapered barrel increases the role of the barrel in accuracy, there's also the size of cartridge, projectile design and length of barrel (discounting environmental factors). This allows for a smaller, cheaper cartridge. At only 400m there's no point in the extra weight of a full taper.
Cool let me know how much 20 of your hipster 200 rounds cost
I reload. Don’t you?
No I'm not poor
kek
nice rug man
I'm not sure which is more expensive. The Aug, the Siberian, or the Persian rug.
thanks bros.
the rug by a long shot. The cat is a total bro.
here's his scruffy maine coon side kick.
Here in Australia it's the only way to grasp some economy in shooting.
I couldn't believe it when a gun dealer first showed me.
Never looked back.
But it's still the greatest long term expense, remember the brass only lasts so many rounds.
Well, don't reload and keep buying so they see demand is up in their numbers to compel them to manufacture more than they need due to your consumption and then gradually the prices will lower since they're never going to really completely shut down manufacturing if you're steadily buying the supply and then when more people show up it'll only get cheaper until israelites get in.
Op, your gun can compete with top of the line 556 cartridges in their optimal barrel lengths but the 300 Weatherby Magnum beats them both in power and the only saving grace of 556 rifles is their high cap. There is a 20 caliber rifle, I forget what it's called, but I do remember the round punching over 4500 fps. They don't really make that one anymore though.
+ a long, thin, light projectile at 3000fps will only be reliable to 400m (if you double a circle's diameter you multiply its area by 4. Thus a crosswind will impact twice the surface but be resisted by four times the weight. The impact of crosswind, eddies, temperature and up or down draughts is over time of flight. A 55gn at 3250fps should roughly equal a 90gn at 3000fps. Again, if the range is only 400m). It would be better to add 2mm to the cartridge length and use a different powder than have a barrel of over 16" (swings and roundabouts).
+ thanks to a farmer in New South Wales whose experiments showed a high twist rate increases the energy imparted to the nervous system, collapsing limbs and shutting down organs, so multiple organ failure with unconsciousness/instant death.
If you look up.200 online you'll find talk of future experiments leading to an AR15 at a reliable range of 1000m. The rifle is a shoddy design and the environmental factors above mean that's like saying you believe in flying pigs.
2nd, .260: I’ll add: as for a .200, so too for a .260 short: 140gn, 128gn and a deer projectile. Range of interest 400m. Thus replacing the .30-06 and .270 (how many people can hold a .270 steady enough to hit something at over 400m? You’re not using the extra range, just paying for it).
General purpose cartridge. Note recoil must be manageable by a female at size 10 (your weight is a factor in handling recoil), on the plus side, they’re stronger these days (strength is a factor in handling recoil).
This is an age of husband and wife hunting teams with exactly the same rifles and ammunition in 6.5 Creedmoore. There will be trouble if a firearm, with exactly the same projectiles and less accurate range, cannot be used by them due to the ammunition’s design. Thus a tubular cartridge may need a bit of a shoulder.
all total homosexualry. its like cadillac when they started putting wings on thier cars. they are just trying to sell you junk. the choice of round is very simple, there can be only one, the .308, the one round to rule them all
Two Two three for the Elven-kings under the sky,
Forty fives for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
9mm for Mortal Men doomed to die,
One Round for the Dark Lord on his dark throne
In the Land of Soldiers where the weaklings die.
A Three O Eight to rule them all, One Round to bind them,
One Round to bring them all and in the darkness find them
In the Land of Hunters where the Animals die.
The only round you will ever need. The only round that kills everything it hits, buffola or mice, men or sharks, its makes no difference to the .308. A round born of the lessons learned in WW2, crafted by engineers who didnt have calculators or computers, by men who knew what the numbers meant.
There is only one round, all the others are just gimmicks.
Screen capped the poem.
Why use a .308 for hunting rabbits?
I actually ate most of the rabbits I shot (if I wasn't after pet food).
It's about being practical.
Am I right in thinking you use a .308 for shooting mice and moose as you can't tell the difference?
That just plays into the hands of Tredeau and his odd list of calibres, that's just like the odd list here in Western Australia (not law, it's proposed), I think both lists were written by yanks who don't really have a clue.
>Why use a .308 for hunting rabbits?
Why would you even hunt rabbits? Set a snare.
But if you just want to kill rabbits, then the .308 will take care of that.
But seriously. consider who developed the .308, and why. It was developed in the mid 50's, by men who had fought on every continent,in every season, under all conditions. They wanted a round equally good for sniping as for machine guns, one that KILLED what it struck, not wounded. It has a perfect balance of power and trajectory. It can be used in almost every situation. And inb4 some limp wristed slack jawed homosexual says "buts it heavy, i can t carry 500 of them" .... (first of all, stop being a wimpy little snivelling homosexual) and you dont need 500 of them, because whether it strikes a limb or between your eyes, your going to fucking kill what it hits. it can take limbs clean off! its creates wounds so severe, that even just "winging" someone is almost certain to cause death, in a very short period of time.
now of course, if I was to be serious for a moment, I would have to admit that every other round has its niche ... but thats what all other rounds are ... a "niche".
only the .308 is the perfect round. if you could choose only one rifle, and one round, it would be a .308. it is, imho, the most useful round ever developed. it can do it all. I have hunted for years with a .308bolt gun, Ive taken Elk, moose, deer, bear and you name it. I could count on one hand the number of times I ever had to fire a second shot.
>Why would you even hunt rabbits? Set a snare.
Use half a bucket of water, pour it down the burrow, they don't like being wet and crawl out slowly, into the bucket you put down with its opening just in front of the burrow, pick a good one, cut its throat and there's dinner or pet food.
Unfortuneately, in the real world, there are warrens, with lots of entrances, or burrows under blackberry (they grow very large here - several metres across) and that's where another method comes in.
I think you're assuming every one else's circumstance is like yours: game, terrain, foliage, accessibility.
>I think you're assuming every one else's circumstance is like yours: game, terrain, foliage, accessibility.
Yeah but your not being fair now. because the assumption we are making, is that we are trying to argue for what round is the best "all around" and why (OP) (you) is a homosexual for suggesting that all these niche rounds require us to cater to them. they dont. You really dont need a whole bunch of speciality rounds. a .308 will do the job on just about anything, and unless its really small (like a rabbit) you will be able to process most of the meat. and for anything the .308 is too big for, there are other methods (snaring, trapping).
Heres the scenario:
You will be dropped off, somewhere on planet earth. You can choose one rifle and 100 rounds. You dont know where, you dont when (the season). you will be unsupplied for 100 days.
what rifle and round would you choose? and why.
Whatever the answer, thats the best weapon.
>Whatever the answer, thats the best weapon.
no it isn't. the answer would be a 22 handgun or sbr, suppressed, because you need to hunt without arousing suspicion.
or a fake gun that is an inflatable tiy, since the Earth is mostly water, depending on the rules
a 22 handgun wont allow you to take any big game. and i geuss we should clarify .... you can hunt with impunity, perfectly legal, kill any animal you want, its a survival situation! you will be dropped on land, but in the wilderness.
but maybe theres guys who would say .... fuck it, Id take my shotty and 100 rounds of 00buck, maybe they'd say ... a 22. just kill some small game daily and at least you've got an easy meal, and small game is much easier to find then big game.
but if you think about, all the old timers, the old trappers and hunters, they all carried a big game rifle. because all you need is one. if you miss your daily shot with the 22, well then thats a day you starve. buckshot is no good against bears, and its no good for anything past 100m (well not really).
but with a .308, you can take almost anything, big or small, near or far. thats my take on it anyways. im no expert or anything, just a plumber in fact.
>a 22 handgun wont allow you to take any big game
What's your plan for processing and preserving larger game animals?
I have a 223/556, a 22lr, a 762/308 and a 30-06.
All I need is a 338 lapua and I’ll never buy another gun
>I’ll never buy another gun
famous last words before yet another gun is bought.
I personally only have so much room in my heart for firearms so I'm picky with the firearms I allow in my life. The more firearms the more maintenance and the more money and time and unlike a blade with a sheath that never sees no use needs no maintenance. Even if one doesn't use their firearm, eventually, they need to do their maintenance on it.
.22 and .308 are good, but the 6.5Creedmore is more practical than the .308, yet if that's what you have, it's no shame.
The two calibres I'm proposing are to lower running cost for most .223 shooting and all 30-06.
Russia bought a bunch of .338 Lapua's from Britain's Accuracy International for their snipers before invading Ukraine.
It's a calibre all countries should be encouraging their hunters to consider, as it builds a body of recruits in war time who are already familiar with a calibre that takes more time to train in.
I would never buy a 30-06.
and the .308 can do anything your .223 or 30-06 can do. it can do anythign a .338 can do too.
yes, I admit, those rounds are functional for thier niches, but those rounds cannot replace the .308, while it can replace them.
you cant carry five rifles when you go hunting. you can only take one.
I dont go hunting for "a bear". I go hunting. I take three deer tags, two bear tags, an elk tag and (if im lucky) a moose tag .... I need a rifle that works for all of them. And I dont want some "specialty ammo" that costs 2$ a shot. I admit, it also has alot to do with "familiarity". I reflexively know how my .308 will shoot. because its what I practice with. my buddy with his 300WIN burns through 200$ in a few hours at the range, and it costs me about 50$.
the only other rifle i own is a 22. its nice for plinking, teaching my son, and its good obviously for small game.
>and the .308 can do anything a .338 can do too.
I think you had better look up the .338.
Aha, you do have another gun!
Well Ive never owned or even fired a .338. But its really again (imo) a "niche round". Of course I own other guns, but I rarely take them anywhere but the range. Sometimes i take the 22 and my 12g to my hunting camp, but almost never into the bush. The 12g is really just for predator defence around camp, because its more suited to that, imo.
But answer my question: You can only take one, and a 100 rounds, you will be unsupplied for 100 days, dropped off somewhere on earth ..... what rifle do you take?
because I believe putting the question that way creates an answer to that question .... What is the best "all around" rifle and round.
Note: force = pressure x area. Area is the base of the cartridge. So a narrower cartridge means less recoil, all other factors being equal, but how short a time that force hits depends on how fast (violently) the powder is burning. So a larger cartridge means a gentler push (recoil) at the same speed and range.
This matters in a .260 calibre (and not .200) due to the extra projectile weight. Again, a high twist rate.
Best Comments so far:
I like to hit what I'm aiming at, with one bullet.
I've long thought there's something wrong with /k these days, in small arms it's all .45. assault rifles (only AK47 and AR15!) and the odd .270.
No statements by people with technical or professional knowledge like there used to be, in artillery or whatever.
Strange.
+
I don't know about that eary, it may have been dying, but it seems to be copy/paste 'discussion' threads, like the Nazi ones here on LULZ before the Ukraine war meant lots of 'leaks' about Vladimir Puting 'dying' of 'every illness' and about the be overthrown in a coup.
CIA... NSC... whomever it is.
Stainless steel (silvery) barrels, armament steel (brown) barrels, point no longer applicable.
There's no point in new guns in gunmetal (the black stuff)!
You don’t need anything other than 7.62x39
>You don’t need anything other than 7.62x39
This is annoying.
At what range, only 100m?
I like to hit what I'm aiming at, 400m was point blank in my heyday, using a .243 CMC Moutaineer like in the OP pic.
>Think 6mm BR
weird you metion this.
I just shot a 6mm ARC yesterday. Pretty legit at 500yds. I didn't have further to test it out.
I want to get my hands on 5mm-35. nearly 4500f/s sounds legit
>I just shot a 6mm ARC yesterday. Pretty legit at 500yds. I didn't have further to test it out.
Due to the environmental factors, this won't be reliable at over 600m at 3000fps.
Still, that's a decent range.
/k/ here, youre retarded and don't understand internal ballistics. You'll need incredible pressure or such a large powder change to get a .2" heavy 70gr to 90gr projo that fast that it'll be incredibly impractical, barrel burning. It'll also need a very fast rifling twist, at that speed it'll need thick jacket projos that will likely have a hard time expanding/fragging. Just stop. There have been so many experiments with this shit that you're beating a dead horse without even knowing that the horse is dead, or even that it even is a horse. You can't imagine the number of wildcats and silly handloader calibers that try shit like this.
Your post could be written by AI I guess. Has that "plenty of words but no understanding" vibe.
>/k/ here,
I believe it, tell us about the .17, the most common calibre sold where I am (after the .22).
>.243
>just a necked down .308
>niche
they sell more .243 here in a year than they do all calibers combined in your poor country
The future is stronger actions shooting cartridges with a smaller rim or base, much more energetically. This will make its way into sporting hands one way or the other, at least in the USA.
I'm always in favour of a strong bolt face and locking lugs.
>smaller rim or base
Within reason, good.
>much more energy
Do you mean in a smaller cartridge?
That will just increase manufacturer's profits.
Are you talking about speed?
3000fps is good as it gives reach and flat shooting.
Are you talking terminal ballistics?
When it's dead once...
Military is already going to a much higher pressure cartridge for their next generation platform. This will create a market for sporting designs and they will use economy of scale to sell semi-auto versions of the military rifles to sporting consooomers who already can blow a hole through the entire cast of the african Big Five standing shoulder to shoulder with their .50 calibers.
Genesis Arms in New South Wales has already made and tested a rifle for this .277 clownery.
Think corporate profits: burning barrels and brass.
90,000psi!
Listen here, you upside down homosexual. Cartridge design reached its pinnacle in 1955 when Winchester introduced the 358 Winchester. Nothing more or less is necessary.
>358 Winchester. Nothing more or less is necessary.
That made me laugh.
There's more to the world than black bear and moose.
Kangaroos, goats, pigs and rabbits were nearly all my shooting.
As for the insult, get away from the mirror, are you assuming everyone else's circumstances are like yours?
>Kangaroos, goats, pigs and rabbits
the .308 will kill them all. stop being a homosexual.
I actually think you're a yank: big number means manhood.
Push off.
the .308 is not a "big number", its not even considered a "big game round", and yet Ive bagged moose and elk with mine. its considered the smallest of the big game catridges. Ive got buddies who got .300WIN and stuff like that, and gone back to thier old trusty .308's.
its also a matter of familiarity, knowing your rifle and it round. And the .308 has very well known specs and flights, its always availible at almost anywhere they sell ammo, its abundant .
I know Im being a bit flippant here, but it is pol after all, so who gives a fuck. but seriously, when you ask yourself, if you could only choose one rifle and one round, what would it be ...... because that question (and its subsequent answer) kind of underlies my whole arguement. a .308 bolt gun can do just about everything. its all you really need. with bigger game you just need to aim well, and you'll be fine.
cybernanny said I'm hot
If I was to relive my days again...
I would invest in the stock market and buy the rifle later (it had a use in angering a fool here who complained police neither arrested nor shot me, he later ran for high profile political office, failed, attempted suicide and failed at that too... I wrote to him in hospital suggesting he not mess it up next time).
I would then buy a 6mm BR in a tapered barrel, the same gun as the OP pic, as .243 was never reliable over 600m, and can't be due to the environmental factors above.
And I would have bought a 9mm semi-automatic rifle, provided it could take 135gn projectiles, for my pig hunting, as that was never over 100m, and often at 5m (rugged terrain).
It all depends on one's circumstances, including what and where you're hunting.
I would never say 'only one gun'.
You know absolutely nothing. Keep to molesting kids in the state subsidized trailer park you must live in.
I have never seen anybody so knowledgeable of ballistics and at the same time so little actual experience. Stick to /k/ and discuss with transvestites and little mexican kids. homosexual.
Yes, this is the correct take. Of course, if our AR-10s hadn't been banned, I would still be using my Stag-10 with both the .308 and 6.5 CM upper 🙁
Americans need to spread gun culture.
As a proud member of the european union, cartridge only devides into three categories for me :
>small pussy bullets for funfair carbine that you can get with €100 license
>Slightly bigger bullets for most handguns and rifle
>Big ass chad bullets wich, if I touch them will take me to prison
Also heard about this .300BLK, which I suppose is insane because it has blackout in his name so it must blackout shit just well.
only terrified homosexuals would fire anything larger then a .308, and only limp dicked homos fire anything smaller then the .308. there is only one round. everything else is the gay pride parade of bullets.
.308 is the cartridge of globohomo tyranny Fulkerson. The one true cartridge is 7.62x54r. If you don't agree your first son will undoubtedly be a femboi.
>The one true cartridge is 7.62x54r.
The garbage rod makes his appearance! Cheap commie pig iron strapped to a 2x4. All the grace and charm of a damp rag!
>Also heard about this .300BLK
Think .40 at 200m.
It makes .44, .44magnum and rifles in .45 redundant, if you're buying new.
I don't have that much room in my house. I could maybe think .40 at 10m or so, but no more.
??? Are you shooting in your house?
By 200m I meant range.
It was a joke, as if I had to think about something from a great distance. It was absurd but I don't know English well.
Understood.
> barrel life = 1000 shots and you suddenly go to 2.5 MOA
I hate these new shit cartridges.
I'm sticking with 308, suck dick homosexuals.
The israelites impose the metric system to try and force us to retool, so we just converted the units for the bullets and kept the diameters the same. Lynch israelite to improve the world, every israelite that dies causes the world to get so much better you would not believe how much better. Try it out do it, most of them have nonsocial security numbers so the federal government does not give a fuck when they go missing.
why are you making this thread again homosexual, and why here and not /k/?
>why are you making this thread again
Stop calling me that, I'm making several threads over and again to copy the best bits of discussion, like writing a thesis.
Just in case.
If you don't have anything to add, you don't have to take part.
308 does everything I want it to do, why change?
>behold new caliber (gay)
>how does this better
>better? (gayer)
yeah that trend is dumb
more than plenty of calibers
where to buy this new ammo?
it costs how much ?!?!?!?!
Ill just stick with 3-oh-hate