>better compared to the Republic of China and the PRC
It was literally a puppet state of the Japanese Empire who used Pan-Asian rhetoric to hide their true intentions, Japanese domination of Asia. The managers of Manchukuo cared little of the rhetoric that some Japanese idealists had towards Asian unity and ran the puppet state like a concentration camp.
The name of it has always pissed me off. "Manchukuo" doesn't make sense in either Japanese or Chinese, in any romanization.
Japanese: >Manshuukoku
Chinese: >Manchoukuo (Wade-Giles)
I wouldn't care if it was at least a cool name or an easy to pronounce name, but it isn't.
> US Ambassador to Japan Joseph Grew noted: ”Japan will in all probability eventually guarantee to Manchuria an administration of peace, safety and prosperity which that unfortunate country has never before experienced…and furthermore Japan is acting as a staunch buffer against the spread of bolshevism eastward which is an item worth considering. If Japan deserves merit for nothing else, we must at least give her credit for the fight she is putting up against communism which is now overwhelming China like a forest fire and would rapidly overrun Manchuria too if Japan hadn’t taken a Hand.”
No region in the world experienced more rapid development in the 1930s than Manchukuo.
>it was a narco state
You're confusing it with China proper.
China was where they pushed drugs in an attempt to pacify and make dependent the local population, Manchuria was an actually integrated industrial powerhouse, wouldn't have done to have the factory workers high as shit.
Mitsui were literally given the rights to grow poppies in Manchuria pretty much explicitly for oopium production, and if Manchuria was a highly developed, prosperous wonderland, it does beg the question of why no serious independence movement exists on the ground, or even in the early-post war period, Tibet was a theocratic shithole and you can at least rile up a few monks to set themselves on fire, Manchuko had no defenders, because it was barely a country so much as a fig leaf placed over a military occupation.
So then, what point are you trying to make here? In a state explicitly carved out for the benefit of the Japanese, it was pretty cool to be Japanese? No shit
I'm saying the Manchurians weren't doped up to shit like the Chinks were, it was an entirely different dynamic.
Japs took over Manchuria and then Nobusuke Kishi ran it as a huge industrial production area.
Later on when they invaded China they obviously couldn't utilize the area but equally they needed it pacified so they started many policies to spread opium amongst the people, including lacing it in cigarettes.
>Mitsui were literally given the rights to grow poppies in Manchuria pretty much explicitly for oopium production, and if Manchuria was a highly developed, prosperous wonderland, it does beg the question of why no serious independence movement exists on the ground, or even in the early-post war period
Because nearly all of the people are Chinese settlers who had only been there since, at best, the mid-late 19th century. They still had family in other provinces, so they couldn't have supported an independence movement.
Besides, the Soviets got to the place before Mao or Chiang did, so they stole everything that was and wasn't nailed down. Manchuria desperately needed outside funds for reconstruction and that meant reintegrating into China.
by the time the rest of china was industrializing, manchuria was deindustrializing, it is essentially the rust belt of china. I think during the founding of the PRC, 70% of the highway and railway network of china were located in the northeast. Under Mao, china was reliant on the industrial output of the region, but because of the tension in korea and with soviet union, alot of the industries were moved out. But the killing blow didn't come until Deng or even Jiang, the downfall of the soviet union and the turbulent 90s in russia definitely had negative impact on manchuria's economy. Beside that, unlike southern china, there was basically no foreign investment into the region, and jiang's dissolvement of SOEs basically layed out majority of the region's workforce, since majority of the factories prior to jiang was state-owned. In turn, more and more industries and personals continues to be drained, and moved to costal china, since that's where the money is. Southern china basically industrialized at the cost of bleeding the northeast dry, since at the time, the northeast presumably is one of the only region in china with people with the know-how of how to actually run the factories, and work the machines. It's even more similar to the rust belt, since people in both regions are made fun of to some extent. I think today the region's economy is mainly reliant on agriculture or services. It is also one of the few regions in china where there's more women than men, mostly because the men emigrated south looking for work.
The Japs through a ton of money at it developing its infrastructure and industry. In the end communist China got it all and used it to industrialize. Most Chinese industry has some Manchurian origin. Its aerospace industry for example originates from Shenyang. The imperial Japanese indirectly paid for China's J-20 stealth fighter program.
In the end China always wins. Don't bet against it. No refunds
the soviet union was more developed than imperial japan and russia is still effectively first world today. in any case the soviets did take over in 1945 and chose to hand it over to china
>The Soviet Union was more developed than imperial Japan
I severely doubt that at ANY point in the empire of Japan, 1868 - 1945, russia/the soviet union was more developed. Japan whooping their ass in 1905 is probably an good sign of this. >Russia is still effectively first world today
I'll agree that Russia was a modern powerhouse in the post-war era, and their suffering now is largely from the unions collapse. Even then, you're saying that Russia is first world now as if Japan, home of one of the world's longest life expectancies, best education systems, and largest cities isn't. Japan had been an icon of quality of life and development since the 80s.
>I severely doubt that at ANY point in the empire of Japan, 1868 - 1945, russia/the soviet union was more developed. Japan whooping their ass in 1905 is probably an good sign of this
This is just retarded. Japan fought with British battleships while Russia used their own. If you want an example of the discrepancy in development look at Khalkhin Gol where the Soviets had actual tanks to steamroll the Japanese infantry with. Obviously you mention the 80s because yes by then Japan became actually first world and more developed than the Soviets. But WW2 was a different time.
While the Japanese were at paints to maintain at least a veneer of legitimacy for Manchukuo by acting like it was an independent state that serve as an example of the new Pan-Asian order Japan wanted to found, in practice Japanese bureaucrats, military officers, and Mantetsu officials called the shots. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Japanese colonists who were encouraged to move there both to lessen the perceived overpopulation of the home islands and provide a sort of natural foundation for Japan there. Japanese people were very much the top dogs in Manchuria with its Chinese, Korean, and Mongolian citizens at the bottom rung.
With that said, the Japanese government viewed the resources of Manchuria as key to its ambitions, and Reform Bureaucrats - a group that idealized a bureaucratically planned economy, at the very least for key industries - were given a lot of leeway in implementing policies, so that by the end of WW2 Manchuria was one of the most industrialized areas in China and that legacy remains even today albeit more as a rust belt. It must be noted of course that said bureaucrats gave zero shit about the expendable chink workers or having to uproot entire villages because they wanted to build a damn or some other project.
It wasn't. The Japs were so cheap they were entangled in organized crime as a means of having their agents on the ground - like the Russian Fascist Party - fund themselves.
I can say that when they arrived in Taiwan, they performed an agricultural survey which found that outdated Qing surveys were only using a third of the arable land on the island. Taiwan also wound up with its own council, largely controlled by the Japanese, but it had more legitimate independence than any other Japanese colony.
They grew lots of sugar and rice for import to Japan, and towards the end of the war the Japanese were setting up industry to process resources taken from Southern China.
That famous Japanese soldier who held out in the Phillipines until the 70s was from the Takasago Volunteers, an all-Taiwanese Native Guerilla unit.
I read that two thirds of the illicit goods seized by the U.S. in ~1939 in the Pacific came from Japanese-controlled labs in China. The Japanese set up drug and prostitution rings in Chinese territory in order to weaken its defense prior to invading.
To be fair, federal agencies also fund themselves in-part through organized crime.
>Redpill me on Manchukuo and how it was better compared to the Republic of China
It really wasnt. Outside of Harbin & Shenyang's limited industrialization, the place was a bandit & warlord infested shithole. Japan's propaganda just sold it as a land of opportunity to gullible Japanese colonists who led miserable lives in Manchukuo.
Like really the only safe way to travel between Manchukuo cities was through military escorted armored trains. Otherwise you'd be be raped & beheaded (or other way around) by a friendly Honghuzhi.
Manchukuo was much more stable than warlord China during peace, it probably was preferable. During the war however the Japanese began brutalizing the populace and severely limiting their food, then it becomes a question of whether you'd rather be a starving refugee in China or a starving slave in Manchukuo.
I've read that Manchukuo was actually incredibly important for the Japanese people in a way that has been forgotten
Apparently it was seen as the place that would allow Japan to prosper into the future and in popular culture was seen as being a lifeline
Any good papers on this idea?
Were people writing novels about Manchukuo in Japan?
Manchurian Legacy is an autobiography of a Japanese woman whose family were colonists there. It's an interesting read, not necessarily the most academic since it's an autobiography, but gives you a glimpse of that era and the Japanese community of the time.
No. Manchukuo is shit
>shit
While most China beside European held, is shilthole
Very interesting state to say at least
Nips were at the top of the pecking order. For everyone else, it was shit
Kill yourself OP
>better compared to the Republic of China and the PRC
It was literally a puppet state of the Japanese Empire who used Pan-Asian rhetoric to hide their true intentions, Japanese domination of Asia. The managers of Manchukuo cared little of the rhetoric that some Japanese idealists had towards Asian unity and ran the puppet state like a concentration camp.
They built trains
Sadly Allies won and now porn industry builds trannies huh
The Japs empoyed trannies a s spies.
A Manchu princess was a tranny.
Elaborate
Green tea IS the shiznitt. Thanks for the reminder, tea producer bros.
The name of it has always pissed me off. "Manchukuo" doesn't make sense in either Japanese or Chinese, in any romanization.
Japanese:
>Manshuukoku
Chinese:
>Manchoukuo (Wade-Giles)
I wouldn't care if it was at least a cool name or an easy to pronounce name, but it isn't.
Autism
do you have any idea what board you're posting on
Indeed, it's retarded, I just call it Manchuria as is proper
Manchuria actually doesn't exist either in Chinese nor Manchu, its a Japanese 19th Century Neologism.
>Neologism
They not wrongly entire.
Manchukuo was nothing more than a Japanese colony poorly disguised as its own sovereign state.
Rapid development of infrastructure, industry, farming, transport...it was terrible.
Very advanced. Notice those hooked / eagle nose, not flat pig Chinese nose. Japanese/Northen Manchu blood.
> US Ambassador to Japan Joseph Grew noted: ”Japan will in all probability eventually guarantee to Manchuria an administration of peace, safety and prosperity which that unfortunate country has never before experienced…and furthermore Japan is acting as a staunch buffer against the spread of bolshevism eastward which is an item worth considering. If Japan deserves merit for nothing else, we must at least give her credit for the fight she is putting up against communism which is now overwhelming China like a forest fire and would rapidly overrun Manchuria too if Japan hadn’t taken a Hand.”
No region in the world experienced more rapid development in the 1930s than Manchukuo.
japan's wild west, lots of banditry but also quick development
i'm more interesting in mengjiang
Me too. But there's practically no English sources on it. And very few pictures even.
It wasn't, Puyi's biography is obviously incredibly biased by account of the fact that he was living under the communists, but it was a narco state.
>it was a narco state
You're confusing it with China proper.
China was where they pushed drugs in an attempt to pacify and make dependent the local population, Manchuria was an actually integrated industrial powerhouse, wouldn't have done to have the factory workers high as shit.
Mitsui were literally given the rights to grow poppies in Manchuria pretty much explicitly for oopium production, and if Manchuria was a highly developed, prosperous wonderland, it does beg the question of why no serious independence movement exists on the ground, or even in the early-post war period, Tibet was a theocratic shithole and you can at least rile up a few monks to set themselves on fire, Manchuko had no defenders, because it was barely a country so much as a fig leaf placed over a military occupation.
There was no opposition because practically the entire Kwangtung Army were stationed there. The first Chinaman to start anything would have been shot.
So then, what point are you trying to make here? In a state explicitly carved out for the benefit of the Japanese, it was pretty cool to be Japanese? No shit
I'm saying the Manchurians weren't doped up to shit like the Chinks were, it was an entirely different dynamic.
Japs took over Manchuria and then Nobusuke Kishi ran it as a huge industrial production area.
Later on when they invaded China they obviously couldn't utilize the area but equally they needed it pacified so they started many policies to spread opium amongst the people, including lacing it in cigarettes.
>Mitsui were literally given the rights to grow poppies in Manchuria pretty much explicitly for oopium production, and if Manchuria was a highly developed, prosperous wonderland, it does beg the question of why no serious independence movement exists on the ground, or even in the early-post war period
Because nearly all of the people are Chinese settlers who had only been there since, at best, the mid-late 19th century. They still had family in other provinces, so they couldn't have supported an independence movement.
Besides, the Soviets got to the place before Mao or Chiang did, so they stole everything that was and wasn't nailed down. Manchuria desperately needed outside funds for reconstruction and that meant reintegrating into China.
by the time the rest of china was industrializing, manchuria was deindustrializing, it is essentially the rust belt of china. I think during the founding of the PRC, 70% of the highway and railway network of china were located in the northeast. Under Mao, china was reliant on the industrial output of the region, but because of the tension in korea and with soviet union, alot of the industries were moved out. But the killing blow didn't come until Deng or even Jiang, the downfall of the soviet union and the turbulent 90s in russia definitely had negative impact on manchuria's economy. Beside that, unlike southern china, there was basically no foreign investment into the region, and jiang's dissolvement of SOEs basically layed out majority of the region's workforce, since majority of the factories prior to jiang was state-owned. In turn, more and more industries and personals continues to be drained, and moved to costal china, since that's where the money is. Southern china basically industrialized at the cost of bleeding the northeast dry, since at the time, the northeast presumably is one of the only region in china with people with the know-how of how to actually run the factories, and work the machines. It's even more similar to the rust belt, since people in both regions are made fun of to some extent. I think today the region's economy is mainly reliant on agriculture or services. It is also one of the few regions in china where there's more women than men, mostly because the men emigrated south looking for work.
I love Chinese women
The Japs through a ton of money at it developing its infrastructure and industry. In the end communist China got it all and used it to industrialize. Most Chinese industry has some Manchurian origin. Its aerospace industry for example originates from Shenyang. The imperial Japanese indirectly paid for China's J-20 stealth fighter program.
In the end China always wins. Don't bet against it. No refunds
Japan basically chased the Russian out of Manchuria.
It easily could've become a Russian oblast and an absolute shithole
the soviet union was more developed than imperial japan and russia is still effectively first world today. in any case the soviets did take over in 1945 and chose to hand it over to china
>The Soviet Union was more developed than imperial Japan
I severely doubt that at ANY point in the empire of Japan, 1868 - 1945, russia/the soviet union was more developed. Japan whooping their ass in 1905 is probably an good sign of this.
>Russia is still effectively first world today
I'll agree that Russia was a modern powerhouse in the post-war era, and their suffering now is largely from the unions collapse. Even then, you're saying that Russia is first world now as if Japan, home of one of the world's longest life expectancies, best education systems, and largest cities isn't. Japan had been an icon of quality of life and development since the 80s.
>I severely doubt that at ANY point in the empire of Japan, 1868 - 1945, russia/the soviet union was more developed. Japan whooping their ass in 1905 is probably an good sign of this
This is just retarded. Japan fought with British battleships while Russia used their own. If you want an example of the discrepancy in development look at Khalkhin Gol where the Soviets had actual tanks to steamroll the Japanese infantry with. Obviously you mention the 80s because yes by then Japan became actually first world and more developed than the Soviets. But WW2 was a different time.
Keep in mind. Before Pearl Harbor, Japan was Finland but more deadly.
Place was dangerous af. Lot's of crime, organized and not, and completely ineffectual policing.
So Brazil
While the Japanese were at paints to maintain at least a veneer of legitimacy for Manchukuo by acting like it was an independent state that serve as an example of the new Pan-Asian order Japan wanted to found, in practice Japanese bureaucrats, military officers, and Mantetsu officials called the shots. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of Japanese colonists who were encouraged to move there both to lessen the perceived overpopulation of the home islands and provide a sort of natural foundation for Japan there. Japanese people were very much the top dogs in Manchuria with its Chinese, Korean, and Mongolian citizens at the bottom rung.
With that said, the Japanese government viewed the resources of Manchuria as key to its ambitions, and Reform Bureaucrats - a group that idealized a bureaucratically planned economy, at the very least for key industries - were given a lot of leeway in implementing policies, so that by the end of WW2 Manchuria was one of the most industrialized areas in China and that legacy remains even today albeit more as a rust belt. It must be noted of course that said bureaucrats gave zero shit about the expendable chink workers or having to uproot entire villages because they wanted to build a damn or some other project.
It wasn't. The Japs were so cheap they were entangled in organized crime as a means of having their agents on the ground - like the Russian Fascist Party - fund themselves.
I can say that when they arrived in Taiwan, they performed an agricultural survey which found that outdated Qing surveys were only using a third of the arable land on the island. Taiwan also wound up with its own council, largely controlled by the Japanese, but it had more legitimate independence than any other Japanese colony.
They grew lots of sugar and rice for import to Japan, and towards the end of the war the Japanese were setting up industry to process resources taken from Southern China.
That famous Japanese soldier who held out in the Phillipines until the 70s was from the Takasago Volunteers, an all-Taiwanese Native Guerilla unit.
I read that two thirds of the illicit goods seized by the U.S. in ~1939 in the Pacific came from Japanese-controlled labs in China. The Japanese set up drug and prostitution rings in Chinese territory in order to weaken its defense prior to invading.
To be fair, federal agencies also fund themselves in-part through organized crime.
Fun fact their biggest export was literal onions. In fact onions came to Western world exactly from Manchuria
>Redpill me on Manchukuo and how it was better compared to the Republic of China
It really wasnt. Outside of Harbin & Shenyang's limited industrialization, the place was a bandit & warlord infested shithole. Japan's propaganda just sold it as a land of opportunity to gullible Japanese colonists who led miserable lives in Manchukuo.
Like really the only safe way to travel between Manchukuo cities was through military escorted armored trains. Otherwise you'd be be raped & beheaded (or other way around) by a friendly Honghuzhi.
>A Imperial Japan slaveground
>Better
manchuria is like cool china. vgh what could have been. also used to talk to a cutie from harbin and was on the verge of visiting her
Manchukuo was much more stable than warlord China during peace, it probably was preferable. During the war however the Japanese began brutalizing the populace and severely limiting their food, then it becomes a question of whether you'd rather be a starving refugee in China or a starving slave in Manchukuo.
I've read that Manchukuo was actually incredibly important for the Japanese people in a way that has been forgotten
Apparently it was seen as the place that would allow Japan to prosper into the future and in popular culture was seen as being a lifeline
Any good papers on this idea?
Were people writing novels about Manchukuo in Japan?
Manchurian Legacy is an autobiography of a Japanese woman whose family were colonists there. It's an interesting read, not necessarily the most academic since it's an autobiography, but gives you a glimpse of that era and the Japanese community of the time.