What do Christians do with the knowledge that the writers of the Gospels took inspiration from Homer and Virgil?
What do Christians do with the knowledge that during the 1st century there were around five fragments of the Gospels but 200 of Homer's Odyssey.
Islam has been saying for more than 1400 years that the bible is corrupted and now you have prove from multiple scholars, not just one, that the bible
didn't take inspiration from God but instead mean, like Homer and Virgil.
How can anyone be a Christian after having this knowledge?
The Qur'an is the uncreated pure word of Allah (SWT) while the Bible is the word of men, who had some of the truth, but ultimately took inspiration from other men.
It is not the direct word of God. The Bible is not the word of God in any capacity.
Christianity is Dead!
Based thread brother,=
"woe to those who write the scripture with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah"
CHRISTIANITY IS DEAD!
Totally wrong, according to the Quran itself.
https://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Bible/index.html
You reject your own Quran if you reject the Bible.
You were refuted in the last thread
No I wasn't. I demolished you and you stayed silent, pathetically.
>still no coherent narrative
You claimed I had no coherent narrative and provided a single example for why that would be the case, and were refuted, so I have no idea what you're talking about. Cope harder, Kitab denier.
What I meant by kuffar havih no coherent narrative:
>Look, the Qur'an tells Christians to judge by the Gospel! This means the Bible is reliable
>Hmm.. those verses about corruption are probably about MINOR corruptions, nevermind the Qur'an directly contradicts MAJOR points of the Gospel. Muhammad probably didn't know much about the Bible
This is called: hermeneutics of suspicion, in simpler terms, biased analysis
>>Look, the Qur'an tells Christians to judge by the Gospel! This means the Bible is reliable
Yes it logically does, anyone honest would admit it.
>>Hmm.. those verses about corruption are probably about MINOR corruptions, nevermind the Qur'an directly contradicts MAJOR points of the Gospel. Muhammad probably didn't know much about the Bible
Dozens of Quran verses authenticate the 7th century Bible, only one verse says they wrote a scripture for a fleeting gain (it might as well be the Talmud for all we know). You were also refuted about the NT saying Jesus is God. See picrel for crucifixion. These two are the only major points you claimed contradicted the Quran and you were refuted, what next "major point" is there?
>This is called: hermeneutics of suspicion, in simpler terms, biased analysis
Yes, you treat the word of God as suspicious and you are biased against it. Gosh, you're such a dunning kruger idiot using words too big for your brain.
The israeli Torah includes the Talmud, which differs from the Christian Torah. And the Samaritans have their own Torah. Even Protestants have taken books out of the Catholic Bible.
So which Torah would the Quran be referring to, except meaning the original and uncorrupted version at Sinai?
Whenever the Qur'an says, "what they have left of the Bible", we take this to mean two things. The contemporary versions of the Bible at the time and region, like the Diatessaron and whatever version of the Tanakh the israelites of Yathrib read at the time. And generally, what is left of the Bible, at all times.
When the Qur'an says, there are prophecies of Muhammad in the Bible, this means in both the Bible at Muhammad's time and even now, they are still there
>Whenever the Qur'an says, "what they have left of the Bible"
Can you quote a single verse that uses that phrase?
The differences between Masoretic, Septuagint, etc are minor and of no urgent concern.
you lost in the last thread
You morons keep not learning.
You have been refuted and will stand without excuse before God when he asks you why you denied his revelations.
What is the Muslim explanation for what Allah was doing during the 600 years between Jesus and Muhammad? I've always been passively curious about this.
This is like asking what was God doing between Malachi and John, or between Joseph and Moses. God sends his prophets at the right time. The dawn of Islam came at exactly right time to defeat two global empires.
Allah is not merely an observer, nor is He silent. Even now, Allah is constantly controlling every particle in the universe, causing relief and grief upon His subjects
>This is like asking what was God doing between Malachi and John
No it isn't, because we have many of the texts from that period of time.
>between Joseph and Moses
The peak right before the Bronze Age Collapse. Perfectly sound historical reason for there to not be much going on in the way of recording prophetic activity.
Now that we've sort of fanned away the woo you threw in the air there, can you get around to explaining what the actual scholarly Muslim explanation is for there to have been this arbitrary gap of so many centuries between Jesus and Muhammad?
What's the new testaments explanation for what God was doing during the 450 years between the end of the OT and the birth of Christ? What's its explanation for what Jesus is doing between now and the apocalypse.
This thread is retarded lol. The Aeneid, Illiad and the Odyssey are poetry books dicussing mythology like the Quran, while the gospels are biography texts about Jesus.
>the gospels are biography texts about Jesus
The enormous historical errors found in the Biblical accounts of Jesus' birth alone indicate that its authors were more concerned with literary effect and mythmaking than biographical accuracy.
The whole point of islam was to try and subvert Christianity. It's just ancient anti-Christian propaganda.
>Muslims only come up with good arguments when they take them from secular scholars
It's not really much of a surprise, but that being said, I'm the Muslim posters on here will use them in good faith, with intellectual honesty, and not draw any spurious conclusions with them.
Oh wait it won't happen because none of the Muslim posters here of capable of doing such, and when they're called out on it they become spiritual trannies crying like a woman a out how they're special and unique victims when this objectively false.
>Islam has been saying for more than 1400 years that the bible is corrupted and now you have prove from multiple scholars, not just one
Those scholars say the Bible is synthesised from multiple sources, not that there was some Hebrew/Aramaic(love how you cant even agree on the language) "core" that got tampered with, and that certain judeo-christian doctrines are inspired from other places.
Problem is they say those doctrines are stuff like Judgement Day, or a Messiah.
Which are pretty important in Islam.
>There's too much classical life-affirming poetry in my Semitic scriptures!
>Where are the goatfuckers? The child brides? The mass enslavement?
>Where's the kajillion Retarded prayers to wipe ou ass?
The Quran has nothing but good things to say about the Bible. It just also says that many readers of the Bible are corrupted.
1. Andrew G. Bannister, An Oral-Formulaic Study of the Qur'an, Lexington Books, 2014.
http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=5520C3185D98CC5A444889843A4D59ED
2. David S. Powers, Muhammad is Not the Father of Any of Your Men: The Making of the Last Prophet, University of Pennsylvania Press, 2011.
http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=1FF9650A9B54B4E6FC5A34E865330E93
3. Joseph Schacht, The Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence, Oxford University Press, 1950.
http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=A9B99D774F2DBA037A34DE8C1E9393F9
4. Keith Small, Textual Criticism and Qur'an Manuscripts, Lexington Books, 2012.
http://libgen.is/book/index.php?md5=6A2A299A52C1E6EF6C1CE0720FC3B3A8
The first explains how the Qur'an was composed orally by Muhammad using standard techniques of oral performers. The second shows how the Qur'an was altered and how early Islamic history was retconned in order to secure Muhammad's status as the last prophet. The third, although flawed, dealt a severe blow to the authenticity of hadith science from which it has never recovered. The fourth falsifies absolute preservation of the Qur'an.
INTRODUCTION
Tom Holland - In the Shadow of the Sword (2012)
Gabriel Said Reynolds - The Emergence of Islam: Classical Traditions in Contemporary Perspective (2012)
Sean Anthony - Muhammad and the Empires of Faith: The Making of the Prophet of Islam (2020)
EMERGENCE OF ISLAM
Patricia Crone, Michael A. Cook - Hagarism: The Making of the Islamic World (1977)
John Wansbrough - The Sectarian Milieu: Content and Composition of Islamic Salvation History (1978)
Yehuda D. Nevo, Judith Koren - Crossroads to Islam: The Origins of the Arab Religion and the Arab State (2003)
Fred M. Donner - Muhammad and the Believers: At the Origins of Islam (2010)
David S. Powers - Muhammad is Not the Father of Any of Your Men: The Making of the Last Prophet (2011)
Stephen J. Shoemaker - The Death of a Prophet: The End of Muhammad's Life and the Beginnings of Islam (2011)
QURAN
Andrew G. Bannister - An Oral-Formulaic Study of the Qur'an (2014)
Carlos A. Segovia - The Quranic Noah and the Making of the Islamic Prophet (2015)
Carlos A. Segovia - The Quranic Jesus: A New Interpretation (2018)
Keith E. Small - Textual Criticism and Qur’an Manuscripts (2011)
Shahab Ahmed - Before Orthodoxy: The Satanic Verses in Early Islam (2017)
Stephen J. Shoemaker - Creating the Qur’an: A Historical-Critical Study (2022)
HADITH
Joseph Schacht - Origins of Muhammadan Jurisprudence (1979)
G. H. A. Juynboll - Muslim Tradition: Studies in Chronology, Provenance and Authorship of Early Hadith (1983)
Herbert Berg - The Development of Exegesis in Early Islam: The Authenticity of Muslim Literature from the Formative Period (2000)
IMPACT OF ISLAM
Avner Greif - Institutions and the Path to the Modern Economy: Lessons from Medieval Trade (2006)
Timur Kuran - The Long Divergence: How Islamic Law Held Back the Middle East (2010)
Ahmet T. Kuru - Islam, Authoritarianism, and Underdevelopment: A Global and Historical Comparison (2019)
Stop trying to sell me christianity. Idc if it was inspired by some white philosophers it's still a filthy arab sandisraelite religion
The Truth About the Quran | Harvard Professor Shady Nasser
Shady Nasser: The Transmission of the Qur'an, Variant Readings, and Qur'anic Grammar
The Quran | Origins and Canonization With Dr. Shady Nasser
Is The Quran Really A Miracle? Dr. Shady Nasser
How Muslim Scholars Standardized the Qur'an | Prof. Shady Nasser
ok
proof that the Bible has been corrupted?
If the Bible falls, Islam falls with it. The Quran and Ibn Ishaq's Mubtada have no factual basis outside the Torah and the Prophets.
Read Ibrahim bin Umar bin Hasan al-Biqa'i.