Is this comment right or is it elitist?

so i recently started exploring goth aesthetics/fashion (really just darker colors, eyeliner pretty much) and i came across this comment that basically says unless you listen to the music associated with that subculture (pixies, sixouxsie, etc) that you cannot be considered “goth” i thought that goth fashion + music were distinct from one another this entire time, is this comment just making an issue out of nothing or is that actually how it works?

57 thoughts on “Is this comment right or is it elitist?

    • Anonymous says:

      fpbp

      imagine wearing a kippah for assthetick then fluoride starting at the hasidic kvetching at you for not being able to list 5 bagels and your wide mutt nose.

      thats zoommutts dressing goth when they cant even name 3 gothic authors, works of fiction, or bands, whatever. you ruin the sense of community for people that enjoy that discussing those works and their way to engage with others presenting as being aware of the culture by being another camouflaged normalmoron in their fedora phase.

      you have SEVERE brainrot

  1. Anonymous says:

    Don’t apologize. Steal their style and wear what you want. Tell them to heck off and make fun of them for being a depressed loser who listens to grampa music. Music is gay.

    • Anonymous says:

      Personal opinion, I think it’s pretty tacky when people adopt a music-centric aesthetic without any appreciation of the music. But at the end of the day, nobody actually owns subcultures. Not the musicians, not the designers, not even the participants. The reality is that anyone can participate in the subculture at any level that they choose, just be aware that some people will be upset about it and call you a poser.

      https://i.imgur.com/cPPBt7u.png

      Being a poser has always been looked down upon by people who are actually involved in whatever subculture is being used as a costume. Tiktok brained zoomers have recently – and before the existence of Tiktok, so just zoomers really – accelerated this and when you challenge them over it they accuse you of gatekeeping or say that they "just like the design". Gatekeeping and elitism are good things because they filter people who don’t genuinely care about what they’re wearing beyond just the clothes or just the surface level.

      Gate keeping is dumb. While I would rather that people involve themselves deeper in the subculture than just fashion and aesthetics, I wholeheartedly support more people dressing in the style regardless of what they listen to.

      Gatekeeping is good. You don’t need to deep dive all the music, but have an understanding of and appreciation of the origin of the style before shamelessly aping it in some search for authentic personal expression that paradoxically sucks the authenticity out of the world around you and leaves everything a meaningless post-modern husk to be packaged, commodified, and recycled in ever shortening trend cycles until the implosion of civilization.

      Start with The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Bauhaus and go from there.

      Imagine dressing up and identifying with a subculture beyond the age of 15 lmao

      Grow up.

  2. Anonymous says:

    Personal opinion, I think it’s pretty tacky when people adopt a music-centric aesthetic without any appreciation of the music. But at the end of the day, nobody actually owns subcultures. Not the musicians, not the designers, not even the participants. The reality is that anyone can participate in the subculture at any level that they choose, just be aware that some people will be upset about it and call you a poser.

    • Anonymous says:

      https://i.imgur.com/cPPBt7u.png

      Being a poser has always been looked down upon by people who are actually involved in whatever subculture is being used as a costume. Tiktok brained zoomers have recently – and before the existence of Tiktok, so just zoomers really – accelerated this and when you challenge them over it they accuse you of gatekeeping or say that they "just like the design". Gatekeeping and elitism are good things because they filter people who don’t genuinely care about what they’re wearing beyond just the clothes or just the surface level.

      your subculture reached the end of its lifecycle
      its a consumable product to be sold at the mall to children now
      goth has been that way since like y2k you’re decades late to the show

  3. Anonymous says:

    Being a poser has always been looked down upon by people who are actually involved in whatever subculture is being used as a costume. Tiktok brained zoomers have recently – and before the existence of Tiktok, so just zoomers really – accelerated this and when you challenge them over it they accuse you of gatekeeping or say that they "just like the design". Gatekeeping and elitism are good things because they filter people who don’t genuinely care about what they’re wearing beyond just the clothes or just the surface level.

    • Anonymous says:

      Gate keeping is dumb. While I would rather that people involve themselves deeper in the subculture than just fashion and aesthetics, I wholeheartedly support more people dressing in the style regardless of what they listen to.

        • Anonymous says:

          Because I’d rather see a goth poser than another stupid in hecking sweatpants and a seahawks hoodie. And who knows, maybe if they are welcomed instead of shunned they might actually take an interest in the greater subculture.

      • Anonymous says:

        Gatekept circles will never bar you if you take genuine interest in their circles and do not act like you are above the entry level. If you get gatekept, you were never genuine from the start.

  4. Anonymous says:

    Gatekeeping is good. You don’t need to deep dive all the music, but have an understanding of and appreciation of the origin of the style before shamelessly aping it in some search for authentic personal expression that paradoxically sucks the authenticity out of the world around you and leaves everything a meaningless post-modern husk to be packaged, commodified, and recycled in ever shortening trend cycles until the implosion of civilization.

    Start with The Cure, Siouxsie and the Banshees, and Bauhaus and go from there.

  5. Anonymous says:

    This take is ancient; I read it in the mid 2000s when I was a middle schooler. I remember trying to listen to a bauhaus or siouxsie album and not getting it at all and then I thought I wasn’t "allowed" to be goth. Looking back on it I was twelve and should’ve just bought the tripp pants or whatever from Hot Topic. You only live once.

  6. Anonymous says:

    imagine wearing a kippah for assthetick then fluoride starting at the hasidic kvetching at you for not being able to list 5 bagels and your wide mutt nose.

    thats zoommutts dressing goth when they cant even name 3 gothic authors, works of fiction, or bands, whatever. you ruin the sense of community for people that enjoy that discussing those works and their way to engage with others presenting as being aware of the culture by being another camouflaged normalmoron in their fedora phase.

          • Anonymous says:

            >What is love? What is creation? What is longing? What is a star?’—thus asks the last man, and he blinks. The earth has become smaller, and on it hops the man who makes everything small…’We have invented happiness’—say the last men, and they blink.

          • Anonymous says:

            that’s literally what you said lol
            Yes, indeed, when someone stops pretending to be part of a community and joins a community, they are part of the community.

  7. Anonymous says:

    Yes, and there’s even a readymade term to describe your kind: poseur. You’re a poseur. It’s not a death sentence, since you will obviously have no contact at all with real goths, so the usual consequence of ostracization won’t apply. Though if you do ever meet a serious goth, you should own it instead of trying to weasel your way out of it. People will respect that more.

  8. Anonymous says:

    >i thought that goth fashion + music were distinct from one another this entire time

    there’s been a separation for a long time but the OGs have never been happy about it.
    what you are calling goth was disparagingly called mallgoth, because the look was readily available at hot topic.

  9. Anonymous says:

    Well, duh. being inclusive is disgusting trend. I prefer exclusive things, if something is for everybody it’s worth less than something exclusive.

  10. Anonymous says:

    goth is more an architectural and writing style.
    fashion and music are both secondary.
    goth writing is mostly predicated on the inherent trauma of life.
    goth belong more on mu, ic, lit than it does on fa. closest architectural board is diy or maybe int. possibly x.

    • Anonymous says:

      Goth is more an ethnolinguistic group. Architecture and writing are secondary. It belongs more on /his/.

      Shut up gay dork, we’re talking about fashion here.

  11. Anonymous says:

    >unless you listen to the music associated with that subculture (pixies, sixouxsie, etc) that you cannot be considered “goth”
    yes this is 100% the case. I do listen to goth music and dress in black and I still don’t call myself goth because it’s not my favorite genre and I don’t identify with the community, as in I don’t make any effort to go to shows or other events. On the other hand you can also be goth without the fashion because you listen to the music and support the artists by buying tickets to their shows, etc. Just as the OP image says the look is secondary to the music.

  12. Anonymous says:

    >don’t wear thrasher unless you’re a "real skater"
    >don’t wear carhartt unless you work a "real manual labor job" 120hr/ week
    >don’t wear a flannel or have a beard or wear leather boots unless you’re legitimately a lumberjack
    >don’t wear a leather jacket unless your only form of transportation is a motorcycle and you look like prime Marlon Brando
    It’s neither right not elitist. It’s just a stupid person with nothing going on in their life, with zero responsibility or sense of direction, who has given up their individuality so that they can identify with some made up trend or community that exists outside of themselves.

    • Anonymous says:

      >don’t call yourself a "real skater" because you wear thrasher
      >don’t call yourself a "real manual laborer" because you wear carhartt
      >etc
      fixed

      • Anonymous says:

        Why reply to a comment you didn’t read? There’s no such thing as a "real skater" , "real manual laborer" etc. outside of marketing devices and commercial bullshit. These terms are just ideas that they use to sell more t shirts, more carhartt, etc. and by believing in them and attempting to enforce them you’re being a corporate shill. hecking idiot.

        • Anonymous says:

          People don’t really skate? People don’t really do manual labor? Lumberjacks aren’t real? Are these all fantastical occupations and hobbies that were made up by le capitalist system, you brain damaged moron?

          • Anonymous says:

            >it’s idiotic to boil a person’s identity down to a singular activity they engage in.
            >PEOPLE DON’T DO THAT ACITIVITY????? GOTCHAAA
            Idk if you can’t read or something or if you aren’t used to reading a string of words that’s longer than a tiktok comment, but you don’t seem to be responding to what I’m talking about. Of course people have hobbies, occupations, religions, nationalities, favorite songs, etc. but tying your sense of self, identity, etc. to any one of those things is hecking stupid. It’s a way to stop thinking for yourself and just letting someone else dictate your behavior, opinions, etc.

          • Anonymous says:

            >you don’t seem to be responding to what I’m talking about
            Are you ESL? I don’t know how more clear I can say that somebody pretending to be something is not actually what they’re pretending to be. For all that about
            >UUURRMM U CANT READ
            you sure don’t hecking read

    • Anonymous says:

      The quality of carhartt actually did go down right around the time influencers started shilling them and non laborers started buying in to they hype.
      Also the actual skaters that I know agree that thrasher is poser tier.
      I dont think anyone has a monopoly on flannel. If you take away the beard part of your statement you could say:
      >dont wear flannel unless you live in seattle and are addicted to heroin
      it’s too basic of a thing to pin to a specific culture like other styles can be.
      There’s also other aesthetics that involve leather. Some leather is normie tier, metalheads have adopted leather, the elite NSDAP had some pretty slick leather coats, etc.

    • Anonymous says:

      i’m a skater, construction worker / motorcycle mechanic and i do volunteer forestry on the weekends.
      i’ve had this board call me a poser for wearing all those things because i don’t fit their stereotype of what they think i should look like.
      i also suspect many posters on this board are eternally online zoomers who never left their mom’s basement yet and can’t fathom having more than one interest or doing anything with their life beyond sitting on LULZ all day.

  13. Anonymous says:

    That person has the right to hold his purist opinion that other people that don’t comply to his standards are superficial. You have the right to believe he is elitist. In the end of the day you can always ask them to define what "the goth subculture" is, which I highly doubt they will be able to explain. It’s still a fashion trend with no more than the superficial value it has for the people that follow it.

  14. Anonymous says:

    In the 80s this was true but the internet has existed for decades and distinct subcultures aren’t really such a thing anymore. If this person is ostensibly a real goth who cares about the music (and implicitly not fashion) then why do they even care about younger people drawing fashion inspiration from their aesthetics? It’s the only thing keeping goth culturally relevant at this point. Also, as a side note, I dress normal but listen to lots of "real" goth music especially from the 80s. I recently went to a show for a famous industrial/ebm act that was put on by an invite only goth club in my city and I was entertaining to the idea of trying to meet people there to gain access to the club. It was almost exclusively old fat people lacking any fashion sense. There were even two middle aged dudes wearing football jerseys (lol). It was definitely not a cool crowd. "Real" goths who care about the music in 2023 are a far cry from the club scene in Blade. It is what it is, but acting elitist about it is silly. Same goes for extreme metal, which I also listen to. I cant imagine having any reaction other than amusement to Kim Kardashian wearing a Morbid Angel shirt or whatever.

  15. Anonymous says:

    I’m the opposite, I listen to all the old post-punk and new darkwave stuff but I dress weezer-blue-album-core, and I go to shows like that heck it

    Nobody and nothing is authentic anymore anyways

    • Anonymous says:

      And honestly at the shows, no one cares what you dress like anyways. People are there for the music and will heck with you if you have an appreciation for the art

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