> Open source is the very worst thing currently going on because it is so incredibly exploitative, it's far more exploitative than any actual company is of the workers who work at the company.
> Even the people who are getting paid in open source are getting massively underpaid to do it compared to how much the people who are using their code are making, it's nothing compared to the power that is accreted by the people who have co-opted that work thanks to the open source model. And then mark zuckerberg gets to define how the internet works despite having paid for almost none of the software that his company actually needed to make that work.
> It's like feudalism or serfdom, these people did the work and got nothing for it. It's like you took the worst aspects of capitalism for workers and the worst aspects of socialism for workers and put them together, that's open source. You get no power and you get no money.
> It's exploitative whether the people chose to be exploited, just because someone chooses to let you exploit them does not meant that you didn't exploit them. And for the record that's how most exploitation works; convincing people to do something that turns out to be very bad for them and very good for you, and that's exactly what the open source movement has turned out to be.
> I really don't see the "we post stuff on github under a gpl2 or lgpl or apache or mit license", all that is to me now is just exploitation. You can say that there's solutions but until someone demonstrates that those solutions work, it's the standard "real communism has never been tried" argument. AGPL is the only thing that I've seen so far that's an attempt to fix these fundamentally unfair compensation practices.
What does LULZ think of this? Is he based or cringe?
source:
2:39:20
In Locke's writing he discuses this idea of the commons. The commons as understood by lock was unclaimed/public land and resources but the idea can be applied to things other than that. Open source is the commons of the digital age. The commons exist for the good of everyone. If we choose to view everything through a power or monetary sense these statements make sense, but charity exist to be free of these things. A means to give to everyone free of getting something in return. Is that exploitation? No they know what they are giving up and choose to do so. GPL is an attempt to codify goodwill between programmers and MIT is unconditional charity to others. GNU wanted to make sure that everyone could control what their computer was running and to ensure that everyone owned their computer in the truest of senses. This was by knowing both in the hardware side and the software side. The programs they released furthered this end and fulfil those desires so were they exploited for not having the same capitalistic desires everyone expects? No, because life is more than making money and getting ahead. People can do things for idealistic reasons and I would argue those are more fulfilling and purposeful that the actions to just get by.
>unpaid labor for companies that are worth billions of dollars and use the fruits of that labor to stop people of their freedom is "charity"
This one's beyond hope.
Well the communal nature of the commons makes it a double edged sword. While giving to the commons means that the common man can have access to free software and does not have to use proprietary software it also means that those same proprietary entities are free to use it to produce more of it. You mistake people giving up their freedom as the same thing as GNU taking it. People losing their freedom is a side effect of proprietary companies existing rather than gnu's work. They would take that freedom with or without the help of open source software. Paid versions of Unix and Microsoft both existed before Linux and the gnu movement. If not using the FOSS software then Facebook would just be running on windows server with a SQL server database. It did save them some money, but it meant more for the every day person. It meant that they could run their own computer and use software that respected them. It allowed normal everyday people to create and build their own companies and experience the american dream. It allowed millions of programmers to learn and grow from well written example code that had real world use. It allowed people to get well written software for free without compromising their data. You have allowed the lenses of power and money to shape your entire world view and have become a game theory NPC who will only seek to enrich himself, but is tricked by society to enrich it. Your grave shall be written "he was born to work for money. He lived to make money and he died in its pursuit. Here lies one who labored endlessly in the service of nothing. A true hedonistic fool to a system he scarcely understood. " Those who have lived for something shall die knowing they had meaning and that they were not simply NPCs.
Great ppost friend, enjoyable rant
Without php and open source facebook would have to pay ridiculous amounts of money to microsoft just to be able to exist. They would also not be able to customize the source without paying an insane amount of money like they did to PHP by creating HHVM and HHI. In the worst case they would have to hire an entire engineering department to create their own stack which would cost them even more
that kind of spending would have fucked them early in their lifespan. They easily saved inflation adjusted billions of dollars by using open source i.e. free labor
Microsoft has programs for small business to allow them to use their products for free or cheap without having to pay until later they probably would have taken advantage of those. I guess it would probably be written in VBA or some early version of asp.net. zuck would probably have to sell more shares and end up like jack Dorsey instead of where he is now.
I agree with you, but for G-d's sake separate your paragraphs with blank lines.
No, that's not "Reddit spacing", that's a newfag meme. People have been using blank lines for readability on LULZ since long before Reddit even existed.
/thread
this is a fundamentally flawed analogy. public land and resources are exactly that: material inputs into the economic system. Code is an output/throughput of labor + resources. you liken open source to unclaimed land, as if the value comes from logging and mining rights, but it's really about giving away free shovels and axes.
There is this new idea that people are discussing. It is known as techno feudalism. The idea behind is that code is an asset unlike any other except land. This is because code like land doesn't decay and isn't consumed when used. A book or art which is the closest contemporary asset is only used once when read and is limited by the number in print. The idea further goes on to discuss the idea that like feudalism new Lords will arise and these lords will collect using algorithms not land. This will allow them to leech value off of anything that happens within the economy. You can see the beginnings in the power that the amazon market place has over the economy. They says because of Amazon algorithms that the point at which inflation occurs actually got lower changing the accepted ratio between unemployment and inflation. This was through the prices being so transparent and extremely price sensitive customers that any attempt to change your price would lose you customers. The only way to beat techno feudalism is the same way we beat regular feudalism through the democratization of land ownership allowing those that previously couldn't own land the ability to do so and removing the aristocracy that monopolized it. In this case the GPL code is part of what is holding this future back, but more will have to be done to completely stop it.
Interesting. Sources to read more?
https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2022/04/23/discussing-crypto-the-left-technofeudalism-with-evgeny-morozov-crypto-syllabus-long-interview/
But public land and resources are constantly exploited by caputalists.
There can be no such thing as the commons under capitalism, it's completely antithetical. "Public" resources are either eventually privatized, or are exploited without contributing back.
This is where law protects the commons from privatization. I believe it is specifically the duty of the department of the interior. Which can allocate commons lands for ventures, but does not surrender that land to the owners of those ventures. They have to bid to use that land and that money goes directly to the government which is the executor of the commons. Using the commons for private venture does not conflict with Locke's view so long as the commons remains the publics land rather than some private entities.
Bullshit, this completely ignores how everyone in the open source community derives tremendous benefits from using the free software that's already out there. Developing new software is a way of giving back. This retard thinks he's anticapitalist, but he still thinks in narrow capitalist terms.
Basically this
This. You can work on a FOSS project just for fun and to encourage others to also improve the software you use, and having another job to get money.
Also, the major contributors to FOSS are compaines such as facebook and google
proprietards wlil cry and SEETHE about what you just said
no, free software is
Cringe.
He's clearly levying reasonable and accurate criticisms against relatively permissive open-source licenses, as an attempt to specifically shill against GPLv3 and AGPL by proxy.
By avoiding excluding GPLv3 by name at all, and avoiding excluding AGPL by name until late enough into the diatribe that most people probably aren't listening anymore, he manages to be technically truthful without jeopardizing the real purpose of his rant.
He's likely on an asshurt corporation's payroll
GPL is just as exploitative. Cell phone manufacturers save literally billions in OS dev by using Android, leveraging the labour hundreds of thousands of unpaid slave devs.
>Well paid Google engineers are slave devs
>implying that every single part of android was developed by paid Google employees
>implying that android isn't built upon other FOSS like Linux that was developed with millions of unpaid man hours
the cope on display here is phenomenal. keep slaving away for free fosstards, you are literally the jannies of the software dec world. you will develop software for me for free and you will like it.
Hmmm... sweaty... don't you know that Red Hat giving source code back totally justifies becoming a 40 billion company where none of the developers who actually made the software will see a cent out of that transaction?
>muh android
>GPLv2
not an argument
foss janny copium.exe
The FSF recommends Linux, lots of unpaid developers contributed it, but it's not a real example because it's GPL (a license created by the FSF) version 2 or something, LMAO.
Name one way that your argument is applicable to AGPL
>Name one way that your argument is applicable to AGPL
MongoDB, Truth Social, Gab.
>MongoDB
How is it cucked in any way for the developers of a project to decide to go proprietary
I don't agree with it but comparing it to them doing free work for a corporation is disingenuous, that's technically true but the corporation is themself, what's the problem
>muh trumptard platforms
Never mind, opinion discarded
>Never mind, opinion discarded
Cope, homosexual.
>falling for baitbot
>being baitbot
>being baitbot
How is it bait when they're examples of parties that saved millions of dollars by using software under the AGPL? Something that anon was asking for, by the way.
>How is it cucked in any way for the developers of a project to decide to go proprietary
The AGPL was not enough for them.
>FOSS saves hardware makes billions
They already built a fuck OS. They had already spent the money. Does symbian ring a bell? They were already going to have to port and write drivers for the hardware they were going to make it was just going to be closed source for symbian. Android made sure that code was open source and allowed for custom ROMs to be built instead of choosing between two walled gardens. You fucking zoomers pretend like history didn't start happening until you started paying attention.
What part of what you wrote is a counterpoint to the fact that cell phone manufacturers save tons of money of software dev labour by using a free OS instead of writing and maintaining an OS entirely on their own?
The levels of anger on display here make me think that this struck a nerve: FOSS devs are the jannies of the software world. They literally do it for free while multi billion dollar corps rake in the profit and use it to violate user privacy like it's a nakadashi-tier school girl on a Japanese bullet train at 7 AM
Google does the maintenance of android. Then other hardware manufacturing companies donate paid devs. No one works on android for free.
Also forget the freedom having an open source mobile operating system gives you for jail breaking and actually owning your technology instead of leasing it.
I'm not implying, I'm telling you:
1. Android is not a community project, it's a corporate one. The man-hours come from Google, SoC manufacturers and OEMs.
2. Android suffers from the absolute worst case of NIH you will ever see in the software industry. Aside from Linux, all the code that makes up your Android phone is some special snowflake in-house Google bullshit. I fucking wish it was made by stealing unpaid labour!!!!! maybe then it wouldn't be such a pain in the dick to debug.
3. Linux itself is not some community project that only unpaid fosstards work on.
>unpaid slave labor is the biggest contributor
What are you arguing about again?
>11.95%
All the unpaid slave labourers could just stop committing to Linux now and it would make no difference.
Does it feel that good to just misinterpret posts and ignore the point? Is it fun to pick out one detail and twist it into an argument for something wrong? Does it get your dick hard to get (You)s for low-effort rubbish like this? I hope I've been able to get your dick hard at least.
>slave labourers could just stop committing to Linux now and it would make no difference
Well obviously, their work is already in it. If EVERYONE stopped committing to Linux it would make no difference because it already works.
>all the code that makes up your Android phone is some special snowflake in-house Google bullshit
Not him. And that's a good thing. At least they are not taking code from other projects and not giving anything back.
>FOSS = bazaar development model
every time someone plays this brain damaged trump card
i hate ESR so much it's unreal
>i hate ESR so much it's unreal
Why?
>It'd probably be cheaper for cell phone manufacturers to ship their own OS
(X) Doubt.
>The only GPL(v2) code in it is Linux, and most vendors violate the GPL on that anyway.
But I thought that corporations were super afraid of the GPL and that complied as much as possible because of it or some shit like that?
>i hate ESR so much it's unreal
Same. His book "The Cathedral and the Bazaar" did far more harm than good, and popularized the mistaken notion that FOSS = bazaar.
The main problem with this is that it leads people to have a mistaken idea of what FOSS really is about: it's about personal freedom, not about a specific development model. Software can be developed behind closed doors and yet completely qualify as free software.
Note that I don't think that there is anything fundamentally wrong with the bazaar model. It's just that people forget that cathedrals exist and that they also work, sometimes even better than bazaars.
>GPLv2
not an argument
You have to admit, though, that smartphones demonstrated beyond doubt that tivoization is a very real problem and not just a theoretical fantasy. Free software is useless if the devices are built in a way that prevents you from running your modified versions in the first place.
Are those hundreds of thousands of unpaid slave devs in this room right now?
Lmao, look at this schizo, he thinks there's a "this room" on the Internet
LMAO, look at this schizo, he thinks there's "another person" on the internet.
1. Android is not developed by unpaid slaves. No-one on this planet, in their right mind or otherwise, would work on Android for free. It's a complete nightmare cosmic horror clusterfuck like you can't even imagine.
2. The amount of effort that goes into making Android work on new SoCs and boards is obscene. It'd probably be cheaper for cell phone manufacturers to ship their own OS, but of course if they did you wouldn't buy their shit.
3. Android is not GPL-licensed. The only GPL(v2) code in it is Linux, and most vendors violate the GPL on that anyway. This is actually the Linux Foundation's business model - they'll let you pay for a membership instead of lawyers.
4. Does this artist literally only draw her? I guess you have to admire this level of dedication to a waifu, but still...
>It's a complete nightmare cosmic horror clusterfuck like you can't even imagine.
kek this. there's a reason even google is pushing easy-mode app development toolkits like flutter, native android dev is pure pain
wrong
sex
I don't know anon, that is very skeptic.
I too was analyzing if he was a paid shill until he actually mentioned AGPL, companies are absolutely terrified of it and wouldn't allow it to be mentioned as an alternative at all.
I though he was going for the "open source is bad and shouldn't exist" angle, anyone that says such bullshit is obviously on payroll.
Also given that he actually is an nobody indie dev (with a shitty self project to boot), I don't think he is a shill.
Companies have become very adept at benefiting from open-source in "evil" ways. Universally adopting AGPL + GPLv3 would solve a large part of that.
>AGPL + GPLv3
I thought everyone said AGPLv3 by now? But really it's just if I run into it, I just point to a repo with my modifications somewhere on my site and call it a day?
Bot post
>36 seconds later
Sure, enjoy your (you)
>>36 seconds later
>actually almost a minute
>no possible way to get 36 seconds trying to do the math here
bot post
>I though he was going for the "open source is bad and shouldn't exist" angle, anyone that says such bullshit is obviously on payroll.
Depends. I fundamentally disagree with that position, but at least it's internally consistent. Some people genuinely believe that end users should not be allowed to modify, let alone see the source code, and that copyright law as it is is completely legitimate.
The red flag is when you start hearing things such as "open source is communism", "they do it for free", "free software is slavery", etc. that you know you're really dealing with arguments in bad faith.
I'd rather deal with honest ideological disagreement than unclear fifth column ramblings.
> at least it's internally consistent. Some people genuinely believe that end users should not be allowed to modify, let alone see the source code, and that copyright law as it is is completely legitimate
These people are simply wrong. Copyright expires far too slowly, and since it is applied to complex tools and components of tools (whose exact assemblies can and will remotely get replaced all the time), it offers effective monopolies on software and software-dependent markets.
>The red flag is when you start hearing things such as "open source is communism"
This is legimately why I dislike open source
good. look at blender. a great example.
>youtube and LULZ goes on and on about how great it is. sure its good for certain types of animation.
look at what the hollywood did , replaced all their computers with it. It looks like CGI returned to the 2001 ERA , what the fuck happend after 2013? regress visual progress becuase they want to save money? that CGI regression is exactly the perfect scenario to encapsulate whats going on in the software dev scene right now.
Everything that these trans naggers and women , onions naggers get their hands on, turns to shit. if you program in a high level language your a meme, your video games are lacking soul, and your applications need a shit ton of libraries to work. they arnt posix compliant, you cant use your applicaitons on anything before winows 10< because of your nagger redistributable 2022.
the state of technology advancement, software development. will always regress as long as we let CIA corporation naggers in conjunction CIA LULZeddit shills try to convince the masses that communism of any kind is OK. or that high level languages reign supreme.
fuck u naggers ,
go boot up VB6 or Delphi 2005, TempleOS.
script something that will last for hundreds of years. Have the thought in the back of your head that microsft one day will remove visual redistribution 2015,2019,2017 from their website to be able to download at all. Imagine how many developers will never get the chance to see their programs work again..
high end vfx studios dont use blender
whatever they use its fucking shit
excuse my french
Touch grass.
fuck open source fuck foss . your going to end up homless. you wont be able to profit off your shit.
you think adobe or microsoft, name a company XYZ would have power in the market if they made everything free. HELL no , these are just retarded downs developers or israeliteS trying to make you poor for the rest of your life once someone steals your code.
>old man yells at cloud
and your the liberal nagger who complains that the system is wrong because you couldn't make any money. why , because you support naggershit like this
What is the reason? What are you even referring to? Elaborate.
What's there to elaborate on? The reason is what I quoted
That economic model just doesn't work at scale. I guess I should say I dislike FOSS, not open source, because open source works for some projects but FOSS is this ideology that all software should be freely available to everyone. That everyone should release their software for free and just hope that someone pays you to maintain it, that's pretty ridiculous
fuck naggeropensource fuck naggerfoss
>casey
>nobody
are you retarded? he is one of the people who worked on bink which was used by almost every major game for a decade. epic games acquired RAD for a gorillion dollars this year
He's a pseudo-nobody
He's a good programmer and worked on some good stuff, but as far as his personal efforts go he's achieved absolutely nothing but he sure talks a lot of shit
lets see your projects
I've actually released games, more than that guy can say
>He's clearly levying reasonable and accurate criticisms against relatively permissive open-source licenses, as an attempt to specifically shill against GPLv3 and AGPL by proxy.
I had a similar impression. After all copyleft was created decades ago precisely to address most of the common problems he mentions.
I would mostly agree with him if he specifically directed his rant against non-copyleft licenses. But instead, his criticisms are mistakenly directed to free software in general.
Open source is for stupid dumb nagger homosexuals. Dumb nagger homosexuals waste their time on dumb nagger homosexual shit. Because dumb nagger homosexuals love dumb nagger homosexual shit and are attracted to other dumb nagger homosexuals that love dumb nagger homosexual shit.
t. Newfag fed
fpbp
>It's exploitative whether the people chose to be exploited, just because someone chooses to let you exploit them does not meant that you didn't exploit them.
6 years, no game.
It's nearly 8 years for both him and Jay
open source is the most israeliteed thing in existance
free software isn't, notice how globohomo corps never call it "free" or "foss" but always "open source"
this
the GPL does work which is why companies fucking hate it, even convincing them to contribute code to the linux kernel for THEIR primary benefit was difficult
Why are most GPL tards stuck in the 90s?
>It's exploitative whether the people chose to be exploited, just because someone chooses to let you exploit them does not meant that you didn't exploit them.
THIS BUT WITH RAPE!!! #ALLMEN
tl;dr
Work for free stupid, work for free to multi billonaries companies is retarder.
If you make good open source software you have big companies shelling out thousands to keep it going.
cringe
What a fucking retard lmao. I work for non-faang f500, last year we open sourced tons of projects unrelated to our core business. This gave us free contributions, free QA, and opened a new recruitment stream. Our contributors and users get free software that they get to tailor to their needs. How the fuck is that exploitation? SaaS is usually more economical than selling vendored software anyway these days, gamedevs say the dumbest shit sometimes
FUCK YOU SAAS nagger! IF I PAID FOR IT IT SHOULD BE MINE I AM NOT GOING TO PAY EVERY LITERAL FUCKING MONTH TO USE SOMETHING
Is this a troll? That's exactly his point. The company you work at makes money off the backs of the "contributors" (serfs) by selling it as a service. The company you work at has the cash on hand to have the servers to sell it as a service; the individuals who contribute to the software do not.
nice reading comprehension. You really think companies giving away software for free that they paid to have written is exploitation? Are closed source apologists all angry NEETs?
>You really think companies giving away software for free that they paid to have written is exploitation?
Yes. Unironically, the workers are exploiting the poor, poor corporations.
>You really think companies giving away software for free that they paid to have written is exploitation?
yes because overall they make more money than they lose. it's literally business. if something is bad financially for the company they will cut it off its pretty straightforward
Okay you're probably underaged so you might not realize that open source is one of the only things holding back the unnecessary complexity facing modern development. You can go ahead and open up a bakery and only write in house properietary software. The first thing you will have to do to sell muffins to zoomers on their cellphones is reimplement the linux kernel, have fun.
>ohhh nooooo won't someone please think of poor exploited torvalds
Just make a web app that their closed source browsers can use.
> This gave us free contributions, free QA, and opened a new recruitment stream
These are all literally only benefits for the company you work for, and not for the developers. you just proved him right you fucking homosexual. also you are a saas nagger so you should hang
>software is opsn source
>you can pretty easily see if its spyware
>decide whether you want to use it or no
>"great code" examples
still not a single advantage to the ACTUAL DEVELOPER of the software was said, im waiting...
>ACTUAL DEVELOPER
no one gives a fuck about developers, developers are all homosexuals. steal their code, keep them poor, code monkey DO MY BIDDING
I am the developer you fucking idiots, external contributors do all the dumb tedious shit for me that benefits their bottom line while I write the actual software. It's mutually benefical.
Everything is open source..
just your skills needs to be upgraded
call it hacking but text is text
No lies detected.
THEY DO IT FOR FREE SO MULTI BILLION DOLLAR COMPANIES CAN MAKE A PROFIT FROM IT, LMAO
That's why you should use (A)GPLv3 instead.
gpl is communism
just think how rich linus torvalds could be if he sold linux. he could literally be as rich as bill gates and elon musk. im not saying he is not making good money right now but saying open source is not exploitative is retarded.
Part of what made Linux (the kernel) popular was that it was free in the first place. His project probably would have ended up just like all the other proprietary unix-like kernels.
W*ndows only succeeded because Gates had IBM bankrolling him the entire time, which subsequently allowed them to bankroll Apple.
I am not sure how he defines exploitation but from the marxist definition of exploitation it's not. Exploitation is where a capitalist takes the fruits of somebody else's labor without paying them the exact value of that labor. With free software you still have the the fruits of your own labor (the program). Somebody else copying the program does not alienate you from owning the program. By that definition the exact opposite is true. The company takes the programmers labor and does not allow the programmers to own the fruits of their labor (Since the company has more privileges over the program than the developer).
>day 655
>almost 8 years in
>still working on some engine bullshit no-one cares about instead of the game
his streams are the best argument in favor of using premade engines
if a good programmer like him can't make anything decent in a reasonable amount of time, what are your chances?
Making an engine from scratch is often dumb but the way he does it is even dumber than normal.
>a good programmer like him
I prefer programmers who ship, Muratori is an eceleb tech influencer
I think it would work fine if your engine was made only for a specific game (rather than for any game at all). I don't watch his channel so I am not sure if that is the case for him.
It's more an educational thing than a game or an engine.
>release all of the source code on the server as free software
SSPL is like that, it demands that everything required to run an instance of the service is released as open source.
>day 665
>almost 8 years in
maybe he isn't streaming daily?
oh no, i'm sharing the work that i was gonna do anyway with others at no cost to myself, i'm being oppressed
Sometimes the people you share with will even pitch in and help, truly a cruel and evil system
If I write some little tool for my own use, and post it online as open source, and google starts using it for whatever, I don't give a fuck. I already got what I wanted, namely a tool that solves X problem. I think the problem is when google starts using the tool some guy wrote, and starts asking for new features or other support, and the dev just goes along with it and gives them a bunch of free labor in hopes of becoming internet famous / "building muh personal brand" / getting a job later on. Writing and publishing free software is fine, just be aware of what exactly it is that you're getting in exchange for your time.
That's why you should choose one of non-cuck licenses. Fuck corpos using code and giving nothing back or pennies.
All open source licenses are cuck licenses, the true non-cuck license is proprietary
How about proprietary open source licenses?
the essence of the communist is exhibited in the distance between "fuck corpos for using open source code" and the simple fact that all large open source projects can only exist due to their corporate backing
There's nothing stopping you from releasing the source *and* demanding money for (commercial) usage. Pretty much any npm package does this.
I think the main thing he forgets is that the people who worked to make the source code for the project got the source code for their project. The people who made php got a programming language that they can use and modify for their labor. Sure somebody else can make money from that language, but so can you. The utility gained from the program that you made for yourself is a fine compensation.
This guy also doesn't understand the AGPL. The AGPL requires you to release the source code of the version of the program you are running on your server to the people who use your server. It doesn't require you to release all of the source code on the server as free software. Just the source code of the program that is ran on the server. You can still use it privately as long as you do not have people using it on a server.
>You can still use it privately as long as you do not have people using it on a server.
Any network distribution forces a source code distribution. There's no distinction between public and private networks.
>There's no distinction between public and private networks
This is true, but irrelevant. The post you replied to made to mention of public/private networks.
You may want to read the licenses because you're utterly wrong – distribution is what counts, not the type of network. a company using AGPL software internally has no obligation to anyone. The AGPL steps in only when the service is made available to others. And no, employees are not "others".
let freetards think they are sticking it to the man while they are actually being used for cheap/free labor
>it is so incredibly exploitative
Didn't need to read any further. And yes, he's right. I'll never, ever under any circumstances post any code on any *code repository" ever unless I'm paid to do it by a commercial company.
The poor fags that do this are opening themselves up to this shit and need an alternative strategy for getting their code (applications/wedges etc.) out there and them being rewarded for the work they've put into it.
>Open source is exploitive
They should stop doing anything that serves the normies, like free guis. It should only be scary to look at unix shit that is actually elegant once you put in a little time. Open source should be made for coders only and not for corporations to free load, at least it shouldn't make things worse in the name user-friendliness, is what I'm getting at. There should be no such thing as open-source javascript projects.
He doesn't remember what it was like before open source was big.
Software was trash before Linux, GCC.
Remember when C++ compilers cost $5000/seat?
Modern computing frankly wouldn't exist without open source. We'd be in a far shittier place and nobody would be anywhere.
If FAGMAN needs something to FOSS, they will fund it. Google did it with WebM/WebP, Apple did it with ALAC and Clang/LLVM, IBM did it with X Window System.
>Software was trash before Linux, GCC.
Software was better before Linux, GCC.
>Modern computing frankly wouldn't exist without open source. We'd be in a far shittier place and nobody would be anywhere.
Open source existed, but just for academia, it should have stayed that way. We could have avoided webdevs and idiotic corporate programming practices. Coonsumers shouldn't be able to see a python/js tutorial on youtube and start coding, and you only need to program if you're a computer scientist, companies, gov, consumers, etc should have ready-to-use software coded by experts who are not led by managers.
>Software was trash before Linux, GCC.
LMAO, i can still run programs made for Windows 98 on my W11 install, you can't even run a linux program 2 weeks after release without spending 2 hours updating and troubleshooting.
Cope harder tranny.
>Modern computing frankly wouldn't exist without open source.
I've read some retarded shit on here, but you homosexual, have excelled my expectations of shit.
The reason why things are so bad is because..
1) People are happy to work for free. This doesn't help anyone, at all, ever.
2) Pajeet$oft have a monopoly and they know it.
AGPL-3.0-only+nagger fixes this
>NOOOOO You can't do things without profit incentive!!!!1!
I make things that are useful to me in my field, and open source it to advance my field so you don't have to reinvent the wheel or pay Big [Field] in order to participate.
This guy's mindset is ruining capitalism. Just make something or do something and get paid for it, not everything needs to be a vector for profit.
Didn't read your post. 🙂
what a shame dumb nagger, who cares
I didn't read this post either! Lol. Looks like I don't care about your posts at all, doesn't it?
The problem is that some people want to advance the field but also need to eat and nobody values all the little components being produced despite them being fundamental to larger systems that people do see value in.
People who make nuts and bolts make a living off of it, why can't library creators? It doesn't have to be proprietary software for sale, there just needs to be a means for the developer to actually keep developing without starving and being homeless.
The common answer I see is people saying "just do both". So work all day for profit, then work all night for the good of the people. Noble, but not really practical.
Also destroys quality of life because you effectively get no time off and work for equivalent half-pay
Selling proprietary software is the best solution to this problem
>Even the people who are getting paid in open source are getting massively underpaid to do it compared to how much the people who are using their code are making
How is this any different to proprietary software?
I work on open-source software for a hardware company. If you had any valuable skills you would be paid too. It's got nothing to do with FOSS.
Based but the problem technically lies in the economic framework itself rather than the misattribution of given masses of profit per se
If the open source community were awarded the profits of Facebook and amazon et al we would just be at the economic mercy of this other set of rich people turning open source deployments into tribal cults of personality and swinging their dicks to make money, albeit with an extra step or two compared to traditional corps
It would be better than the current state of affairs but still only serves to kick the problem down the road by way of diffusion
I write open source because it's my personal gift to the world.
I will only fix the bugs I want to fix and I will only add the features I want to add, if you disagree then pay me a lump sum for support
dont care, still distributing my code under the AGPLv3-only+nagger
Muratori is a retard, like his master Blow.
Carmack > Acton > Muratori > Blow
As usual, criticism of FOSS boils down to throwing random words around and making terrible analogies.
Some people truly see the world upside down. Of all the things in the world that are actively making our life worse, he chooses to attack FOSS of all things.
Open Source with a guaranteed 90% royalties and mandatory inspection of every line of code used by every company providing any commercial service for license violation. License violations should be punishable by death.
Open source is the base upon which improvement and competition can happen and it needs to be brought to everything as much as possible.
People should get paid to improve. Not to do the same thing from scratch (e.g. text rendering) over and over and over again. Even less so in a market that guarantees a monopoly with copyright (and in the USA even patents and basically never really any antitrust etc. action to stop monopolies, duopolies and other situations without real and hard competition).
>People should get paid to improve. Not to do the same thing from scratch (e.g. text rendering) over and over and over again.
Very true. Unnecessary wheel reinvention is probably the single worst technical problem in software development, and FOSS is effectively the only phenomenon at the moment that is mitigating it. If all software were proprietary, it would be far worse: we'd have a lot more wasted effort spent in solving problems that have already been solved.
As a side note, this is how a decent chunk of modern academic computer science research works: they don't solve new problems, they just solve the same problem in a way that looks novel enough for publication.
>Unnecessary wheel reinvention is probably the single worst technical problem in software development
Most of the things people think is "wheel reinvention" actually isn't and when you adopt this mentality that you don't need to learn or do anything yourself you get massively bloated shit like web development
And when you adopt the mentality of "I need to do this all myself" then you get a second thing that's massively bloated like web development except it's incompatible with it
>People should get paid to improve. Not to do the same thing from scratch (e.g. text rendering) over and over and over again.
>Very true. Unnecessary wheel reinvention is probably the single worst technical problem in software development, and FOSS is effectively the only phenomenon at the moment that is mitigating it. If all software were proprietary, it would be far worse: we'd have a lot more wasted effort spent in solving problems that have already been solved.
That leads to stagnation. Having to do things from scratch keeps things simple and elegant. Instead of bloated and clunky browsers and operating systems, they have to think about how to do things, and this leads to constantly making better tools to do things, and why tech evolves. They have to be easier to use and program because you can't rely on muscle memory and baby duck syndrome.
>As a side note, this is how a decent chunk of modern academic computer science research works: they don't solve new problems, they just solve the same problem in a way that looks novel enough for publication.
This is because the industry has the mentality that you do and does not want to solve things because they think it's pointless. People solve a problem, the next generation forgets about it, new people solve it again.
Why are Genera and Lisp machines considered so amazing? Because they reinvented the wheel. There's no software for it? Make the OS so productive that it's easy to develop. Nobody used it before? Make it easy to learn and explore.
http://lispm.de/genera-concepts
>Genera and Symbolics Common Lisp dramatically increase your productivity and efficiency by providing many built-in software facilities (similar to library routines) that you would otherwise have to write yourself. Our edit-compile-debug cycle happens so fast that you are virtually editing, compiling, and debugging simultaneously. The editor, compiler and debugger are all resident utilities, available anytime, anywhere.
Not this guy but I will tack onto this:
Doing text rendering "again and again and again" isn't reinventing the wheel. Invention is making something new from something which didn't exist; people who manufacture tires are not reinventing wheels. People who make scooter wheels, or wheelbarrow wheels, or monster truck wheels, or water wheels, are not reinventing wheels.
There is an allure to software people that they never have to write anything again, because software is infinitely reproducible. This actually ends up usually making poor, fragile code. Selecting what to take whole cloth and what to rewrite is not easy. But the fact is, if you do rewrite something, you're only reinventing it if you do not have any references for how the thing goes together.
You may want a compiler that focuses on fast compilation instead of intense optimization. It's not stupid to write such a thing, but it would be stupid (and actually reinventing the wheel) to not read and understand how compilers work before going about doing it.
The #1 problem I encounter with this attitude is people using huge libraries when they want 10% of it. The core 90% of usefulness of a library is usually in 10% of it. Doing just that 10% can make your implementation faster and have less bugs than using the library in its entirety (more loc = more bugs after all).
It's better to understand how software works so you can write what you need for your specific program, than to #include 100 libraries together and basically write macros for them to pass data into each other.
Just dont use/work on open sores.
problem solved
>It's exploitative whether the people chose to be exploited, just because someone chooses to let you exploit them does not meant that you didn't exploit them. And for the record that's how most exploitation works; convincing people to do something that turns out to be very bad for them and very good for you, and that's exactly what the open source movement has turned out to be.
It makes sense why homosexuals are pushing for opensource so hard, because THE israeliteS/ CHINKS don't want to pay their employees. Swear to god when I start my company I'm not going to do it in California. To prevent all this naggershit from happening,
fuck communism . most of LULZ naggers have no logic. they get paid to maintain code, not the 50$ wage where your on the front-lines . call them out. they only have experience in writing in high level languages and working for others. not themselves. if you've never written an application from top to bottom and haven't gone through the process of trying to earn passive income from your software , you shouldn't speak on whether you think its a good idea to make everything free you dirty communist naggers.
people only use linux for wine & windows 10 is the definition of A naggerOS .
LULZ is full of reddit naggers. 9.8/10 chances you won't find someone with logic
>A naggerOS .
Imagine having grammar like this and thinking you don't sound like a 90 IQ shitskin.
>87272502
Hi, GPT-3
what?
Cannot wait for this to become the stock response for situations where you've lost the argument but want to make it seem like you won.
he do be havin a point do
I dont care about opinion of failed game developer who cant make basic 2d action game
He is another victim of dunning kruger effect
>depending on libraries
His John Oliver-like grin makes his opinion untrustworthy.
>facebook would not exist without php. the people who made php have no say in anything facebook does
that's like saying the guy who designed your light switch should have a say in where you can install it in your house.
The guy who designed your light switch got paid for that design.
he still shouldn't have a say even if he designed it for free. your argument sucks
All the problems of value attribution go away with vertically and horizontally integrated mincome-fascism
>>87 263428
excellent post my friend, here some cute tushy
meant for
sauce on image?
What's wrong about doing something that might give you experience and (you)'s
Or if you already have experience and its easy to you
he is right, but I don't think most of us really have a choice other than being free labor. the flood of college CS grads in the job market means that for nodegree people like me the only chance to get attention from recruiters is to work on some open source project to build a profile. without open sores we wouldn't even have that
Stallman always includes free commercial use in his licenses. Forced to open source if distributed is good but it should be forced to open source if used at all and businesses should pay.
I dont know anything about licenses but cant someone just make a license that forces companies to pay a monthly subscription if they use it depending on how big said company is?
You can write any license you want, and that's exactly how many software licenses work.
He's right; really what we would need is a culture of dual licensing AGPL/commercial where other free software project get to use the code as-is while commercial project would have to pay. It's not like companies do not pay for software, in fact they pay lots of $$$ for super shitty proprietary tools. They might as well pay some money for useful libraries.
There is no reason why something like a JSON parser shouldn't be $500 to $2000 for company. It's nothing compares to paying an engineer to implement and test one from scratch.
How do you realistically monitor this though?
Wouldn't even be hard to do, you could automate this process it in a day
>make daily cron job to grab top 5000 highest grossing games on steam
>for each game, look up in own database
>if new game, send to human for manual investigation
>human looks up game to find what engine they're using. If can't be trivially determined from the internet, purchase game, download and inspect executable
>human adds game name, developer name, and game engine to database
>each day, for all games using unity check licenses
>send lawyers after unlicensed games making the most money
nice pseudocode.
>e-beggar that has been stringing along his paypigs for 7 years or so
>he's trying to take a stand against "exploitation"
L O L
O L O
L O L
Holy mother of based
Fuck communism, fuck free software and fuck freetards
In this house we support capitalism
you're mentally ill, get help. i should be able to apply any license i want to my code. if you don't like it, too bad.
exactly, that's why all my code is proprietary licensed
nothing wrong with that, you should do what you like. FOSS is great, i try to be as FOSS is possible, but if you want your code to be proprietary that's fine. what I will say though is that even though you chose it to be proprietary I assume you're not making money on your code, you're just making it proprietary because you're anti FOSS for some reason?
FOSS is a communist ideology, and you know what happens to communist societies every single time
>FOSS is a communist ideology
you have the right to choose to use it or not. you use proprietary, i use FOSS when i can and proprietary if i have no choice. there's no problem with that. communism involves the state and you have no choice and it's not software related, you can choose not to use FOSS. i hate communists as much as the next guy and want them all exterminated from the planet, but FOSS is fine. you sound obsessed.
The goal of GPL is to force you to use it using power of the state and make it so you have no choice. It's communism
>The goal of GPL is to force you to use it using power of the state
you don't have to use it, what's so hard about this?
GPL fans would prefer if you had to
just because you can choose not to use it, doesn't mean it's not communism
in communism there is no choice, you are a communist or you are killed. you are free to use the gpl, or not. with gpl you have a choice. if you use it you are bound to its laws. just as if you use proprietary software you are bound to its laws. if you break proprietary laws with proprietary software the state you fucking shoot you. so again, what do you not understand?
GPL fans would kill you or jail you permanently if it were an option
ok pal, nice opinion. you've moved the goalposts, not interested
They literally admit to this, if you break GPL laws with GPL software the state also fucking shoots you
>They literally admit to this, if you break GPL laws with GPL software the state also fucking shoots you
They literally admit to this, if you break proprietary laws with proprietary software the state also fucking shoots you
i can play that game too
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? I never denied that, proprietary is violent capitalists, GPL is violent communists, they're both shit
ok so tell me, what license is a good license that isn't a fucking cuckold license?
Get a real job lmao stop trying to make money from forcing other people to pay you for worthless 1s and 0s. In normal business you don't have to fuck around with this license shit you just give people a object you hold in your hand and then they hand you money in return
>stop trying to make money from forcing other people to pay you for worthless 1s and 0s.
nope, i won't stop, ever. fuck you and kill yourself
>In normal business
business is business, there is no normal business. i own my own business. i make money any way i want and you will never ever stop me
What is this cope? You asked for a good license I gave you an answer and now you're mad about it
>You asked for a good license I gave you an answer
you did? i must have missed it. name the license, what is the name of the license?
The name of the license is I sell you a truckload of gay ass dildos, if you don't pay then i drive the truck away. It's fucking simple, you software shitters are a bunch of nerds lmao
ah ok, you're one of those idiots that can't answer a question. i ask you the name of the license and you can't do it. fuck off shithead
That's the name of the license, what part don't you understand
wikipedia has several lists that basically comprise all the software licenses people would use. can you send me the wikipedia link to the actual license? or some other link to the document that describes the legal layout of the license?
Anon you can write a license without having a page about it on wikipedia lmao. Most licenses aren't on wikipedia
>"GPL BAD"
>ok what license is better?
>doesn't have a license
kek fucking idiot
I told you the license. The license is I drive a truck of ass dildos to your house, if you pay then I give them to you, if you don't pay then I go down the street and sell them to gay charlie the furry
>isn't even talking about software
>has no legal document
>no whitepaper
>has nothing
>is a fucking cuckold homosexual
you stupid arab shit
>>is a fucking cuckold homosexual
Hey man I'm not the one buying the used gay ass dildos
no, you just sell them, but chances are you're testing out your own product, homosexual. you just can't help yourself, sticking them up your ass and your dead mothers ass, homosexual.
I like a customer who understand the product he's buying, make sure to have my money ready when I arrive
no, you just sell them, but chances are you're testing out your own product, homosexual. you just can't help yourself, sticking them up your ass and your dead mothers ass, homosexual.
>what license is better
MIT+nagger license
newfag
i'd have accept this as an answer but the other clearly homosexual anon couldn't even say that, he had to say something about dildos and how he sticks them up his fucking ass. what a fucking homosexual
They are your dildos friend, you are the rightful owner by the license
>GPL commie initially denies wanting to force violence on others
>Later wishes death on others, makes bigoted fascist statements
Every time. Every fucking time. Why are you people always like this? You don't even try to hide it.
>beyond obsessed with commies
>complains about FOSS and GPL
>definitely uses FOSS like a pathetic hypocrite
>can't name better licenses even though there are licenses that act the way she wants
>EVERYONE IS A COMMIE
>talks about dildos
>is a retarded poor unemployed neet
>"why are peepoo like dis?????"
yellow hands typed this
uses FOSS like a pathetic hypocrite
Not a hypocrite. It's your moral duty to steal from commies
>thinks he's stealing by using FOSS
now that is a serious smoothbrain take
GPL fans accuse you of stealing when you don't give source back. It's your moral duty to not give source back, those commies can get fucked
The GPL commie reveals his true colors and goes full /misc/droid racist. Every time. Every fucking time.
>Every time. Every fucking time.
go back to le reddit you retarded shit stain
How can I go back to a place I've never been
COPE
Communism doesn't neccessitate that you have to use it or be killed. That's not inherit to communism
But the GPL is designed to remove peoples choice, it's a viral license, all derivative code must also be GPL. It's supposed to spread and take over. The people (person) behind the GPL believes that only FOSS should exist and the license reflects that
>Communism doesn't neccessitate that you have to use it or be killed.
correct, except in communists countries if you don't adhere to the party you are killed, so you're wrong.
>But the GPL is designed to remove peoples choice
you have the choice to use it or not, what don't you get? if you use it you must adhere to its laws, exactly the same as proprietary licenses.
>It's supposed to spread and take over.
so don't use it, again, what's the problem?
>The people (person) behind the GPL believes that only FOSS should exist and the license reflects that
who cares, so don't use it. what do you care what a person thinks? wagner made amazing music, do i care what her thinks about israelites? nope. don't like foss? don't use it. stay in a proprietary bubble, or a MIT/BSD license bubble, what's the problem? you have choice, and you're acting like you're not. stop obsessing about something you have no business caring about.
>if you don't adhere to the party you are killed
GPL fans would do this if they were in charge
>GPL fans would do this if they were in charge
proprietary fans would do this if they were in charge
See
No I'm not wrong. How a state chooses to enforce communism is different to what communism itself is
Having a choice in the matter doesn't change the fact that communism is a retarded idea, and GPL goes as far as it possibly can to strip you of any choice
it sounds like what you're saying is that you can't stop using it? is that what you're saying? is that why you're obsessing over it? instead of just not using it and ignoring it because there's plenty of proprietary / bsd / mit software out there you'd rather just use foss and obsess on how you think it's bad? is that what you're saying? because you sound like a fucking retard with all this obsessing about something that you hate and don't use supposedly
>it sounds like what you're saying is that you can't stop using it?
No I'm not saying that at all
I'm saying communism is retarded
You're saying "waah you don't have to use it let me be retarded in peace"
No, I won't let you be retarded in peace
>i must complain about licenses that i don't use and software that i don't use
have fun wasting time
Calling freetards communists and watching them squirm as they realize I'm actually correct gives me immense pleasure so I don't think it's a waste of time
>gives me immense pleasure
yikes, you probably need a better hobby and a girlfriend
well until that point you'll just have to deal with it
I had one but your sister dumped me so she could date 3 black men
i don't have a sister but nice fantasy, N cuckold
It's not a fantasy I'm just happy for her she met three men she loves. Enjoy your 3 new brothers in law
Open source isn't good. Free software is.
>"Other people gave their code to everyone and now I'm mad that other people are profiting a lot from it"
If they cared they would have applied for a job at Facebook or AGPL'd it. None of your business
That's why you always always use AGPLv3
They work better than commercial closed source shit, so nope
open source guys are at fault of their own fate
they help lots of people with their code, but when corporations step in they start fulfilling their own corporate needs while getting nothing out of it. Nothing prevents them from BTFOing the corporation, but they want to look prestige and hope the corpo drops some money in, which is not going to happen.
>Communism is bad, because someone, somewhere along the line will steal it and turn it into capitalism
Yeah, that's about the size of it. That's why we were all pushing for socialist reforms for like 50 years, but NOOOOOOO, we all decided that libertarianism was somehow the solution, and look where that ended us up. Now you gotta pay a company hundreds of dollars a month to access the cables the government installed. Capitalism ruins everything.
Communism is bad because it doesn't reflect how human beings actually operate
Communism is the ONLY system that reflects how humans actually operate.
Or do you think Cro-Magnons were trying to maximize their ROI when they hunted woolly mammoths.
Capitalism is a system that incentivizes individualism, which is the *opposite* of how humans, a species literally evolved to be social, operate.
Reactionary lol
Individualism is based but pathologising it is where we run into trouble
By which I mean pathologically pursuing it
Ideally we ensure group equity to support a plethora of individual pursuits which are then reintegrated with the group, to maximise both creativity and collective well-being in a perpetual loop
Cro-Magnons sure as fuck didn't have the concept of class struggle. What a naive comparison, communism is meaningless outside of a society.
Humans evolved to be social in tribes
When you have something bigger than a tribe, "just share everything lol" no longer works
Smells of retard
Link it at the specific timecode next time, lazy homosexual.
?t=9560
good morning saar, have a (You) but do not redeem
open source is free software without the freedom
there is no reason to try and find a middle ground between proprietary and free
you either release your code publicly for free, or you don't release it at all
anyone who wants to take a third position is a cuck that deserves to get exploited
GPL is the third position, where your code is "free" with exceptions
good morning Rahesh, pleasant seeing you again
GPLv3+ is the only license I use unless whatever I'm posting is extremely trivial.
GPL is useless now because everything is SaaS, corporations will use your software for free and make millions without having to give back a hair because it's all on their servers.
AGPL and SSPL are extensions of GPL that address this.
>SSPL
A meme license because it's literally impossible to comply with it.
>use a cuck license
>get cucked
How could anybody have predicted such an occurrence? AGPL v3 Chads win again.
>use a cuck license
>get cucked
I don't think that Casey Muratori ever wrote a single line of free software in his entire life.
You could have easily disproven this hypothesis yourself instead of wondering. https://github.com/cmuratori
He's right. We should embrace non-commercial licenses or keep everything proprietary but open source.
the shills are in full force itt i see
Stop giving this person attention. He says and does obnoxious shit purely to gain subscribers
How come none of these handmade guys like him and Jon Blow ever talks about Terry Davis, the godfather of handmade software? The guy made his own OS and compiler and dozens of games while these guys can barely finish one game and one compiler
Is it cause they’re jealous of his genius?
Because he's not actually a genius
Hey Casey and John, how are your projects going? Maybe you should get back to work instead of posting on LULZ
Do I need to be Casey or Jon to say that Terry Devis isn't a genius?
protip: terry davis is fucking dead, you enabled his destructive behavior, you killed him
>this desperate for interaction
most likely because he was a literally insane schizoid racist who regularly jerked off in public in front of strangers
Andrew S. Tanenbaum did that too.
Except for the games part.
terrys "games" are qbasic gorillas level shit
a child can do that
LULZ killed Terry
>Is he based or cringe?
he's a guy making an isometric game publicly for 2 years and still being at 30% progress
I don't know why people always say "working on a game" when the whole point is how to implement a game from scratch. He's working on educational material, not a game.
There is nothing more educational than completing a project.
He's not trying to educate himself, he's making educational material for everybody else
His educational material is shit because it doesn't teach anyone how to finish
because LULZ's userbase is mostly loser children that play video games and their entire identity revolves around playing video games and nothing else. so that's why they do it, they can't see anything but "working on muh gaymes"
What imaginary boogeyman are you angry at?
was trying to reply to
>What imaginary boogeyman are you angry at?
imaginary? do you think what i said isn't true?
>do you think what i said isn't true?
Yes.
yeah you're right LULZ totally isn't mostly kids that play video games. fucking idiot
I can't tell if this is a bot, a retard, or a troll. I'm guessing bot.
>anyone i don't like is a bot
Did you read the post? It looks like one. Makes no sense at all.
you have basically no way of proving anyone on here is a bot, it's all conjecture, but you keep saying it and wanting to believe it so badly. pretty sad to see
Aren't you the guy saying everyone is kids? Your English sucks balls and your points are retarded anyhow. You must be desperate for attention.
no, that's you, you are literally the one doing that. THEY always blame others for what THEY are doing, and that's YOU
You sound mentally ill. That's funny.
you're mentally ill
I laughed for real
you should honestly take your meds and get help asap
How about I just keep making you flustered instead?
He bit off more than he could chew
He's old too so you know he's never going to finish that game
>old bad
retard
>old can't learn
retard
>new good
retard
>he's never going to finish that game
>that game
who cares, it's educational, what don't you get?
that anon isn't saying that he being old = not being able to learn, he's saying that he might die of age before finishing it
so what?
just trying to clarify what anon was refering to
He's probably right, but I honestly don't even care. Imagine slaving away at writing software only the company what pays you gets to use. I'd rather be exploited.
Open source is good because I get free stuff without having to do or learn anything.