LULZ / LGBTQ

Is "hondosing" to blame for disappointing results in some studies

When i look at some trials regarding MtF transition i notice that the result isn't nearly as good as it should be so we need to ask ourselves what's wrong.

One potential explanation is that MtF individuals are often given aggressive testosterone suppression together with low dose E and this is very likely to cause mental issues for many people (among other issues caused by lack of sex hormones).

https://vintologi.com/threads/science-regarding-transexualism.566/page-2#post-6487

https://www.reddit.com/r/transmaxxing/comments/ver13a/are_low_estradiol_dosages_to_blame_for/

  1. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >picrel
    you're advocating for high e, not high t, right?

  2. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    [log in to view media]

    I mean, when there's shit like this, it obviously messes everything else up.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Stuff is obviously getting messed up but this indicates the opposite of what OP is suggesting.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        How so? It's the same shit, hondosing, but in addition to the lack of E they also don't even give enough AAs.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          >How so? It's the same shit, hondosing, but in addition to the lack of E they also don't even give enough AAs.
          AAs do way more than just suppress androgens. and also, suppression of androgens beyond a certain degree can itself have deleterious cognitive effects. OP is specifically talking about things like mental health and HRT regimen, not just how attractive/feminine you look

          • 2 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >not just how attractive/feminine you look
            That's not what I was talking about.
            Being on HRT, as in having a female hormone profile, was shown to be beneficial to MtFs. If you get hondosed and stay within the male ranges for sex hormones, you'll just keep getting destroyed mentally like any repper would. It's obviously different from not having (enough of) either sex hormone in your system, but it's still detrimental to your mental health.

            • 2 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              otoh sometimes I see the menopause effect so they go from 500 t 30 e to 30 t 20 e where the estrogen suppresses hormone production but literally gives less than the residual estrogen that was a side effect of producing so much testosterone.
              their doctors usually get confused as if they never learned how sex hormone production works.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, pretty much. The average MTF basically never even physically transitions, since they never even achieve female hormone levels.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      This, pretty much. The average MTF basically never even physically transitions, since they never even achieve female hormone levels.

      Spiro is the worst aa out there. I still get lots of girl boners on cypro 50mg and bica 50mg

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Spiro is ok-ish if your starting point is low T basedmale. It worked for me.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        you do not need 50mg cypro lol, anything above 12.5mg a day is unneccesary, and a lot of people can get by on a lower dose

    • 2 weeks ago
      vintologi.com

      Weak T suppression does go against the original theory presented.

      Unfortunatily i am not aware of any proper studies on if trans females feel better when on weak/no anti-androgens.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        Weak T suppression doesn't mean anything. It's still low testosterone and low testosterone is detrimental for mental health when not complemented with high enough estrogen.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      this is literal ropefuel to me

      even tho im just an early midshit i still feel like im still getting to it late. if i keep losing time to being hondosed ill go insane

      things is, i cant even try to learn about this too much. im too depressed to be able to

      • 2 weeks ago
        vintologi.com

        You could easily order estradiol to inject.

        hrt.cafe

  3. 2 weeks ago
    Sam

    Yeah pretty sure this is me. Until otokonoko vials arrive i being hondosed but with lucrin so my levels are fucked.
    “Estrogen” (i assume e1+e2): 66nmol/L
    :’0

    Testosterone:
    0.4nmol/L.

    I hope i am remembering units right. If not its just standard nz which i assume is like aus and eur

  4. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    >Is "hondosing" to blame for disappointing results in some studies
    Yep
    As someone with low T who got put on low E, there isnt much of a difference. DIY is the future

  5. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    daily reminder that antiandrogens are poison

    just take high-dose estrogen monotherapy from the start. or low-dose if you want to enbymaxx

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      if you're amab you still need to suppress T to enbymaxx. Boymoding is essentially enbymaxxing. The physical changes alone from becoming estrogenized will usually only push you into androgynous or prettyboy territory. The rest is all presentation.

  6. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I worry sometimes cause I've never gotten my actual E and T levels from my endo, and I forget to refill my prescription all the time and run out of patches for a week... but on the other hand I have huge tits and a more feminine fat distribution on top of the other physical and emotional changes so like... it seems to be working? I wonder if using patches has anything to do with it, everyone getting hondosed seems to be on pills.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      I'm on 200mg Spiro daily and uhhh I don't remember the number micrograms E patches twice weekly btw, I'm curious if that's good or bad.

    • 2 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      It's easy to get hondosed on pills because people take them orally which results in a lot of wastes E, iirc, you get only 40-60% of E when swallowing pills because it goes through your liver, a lot also may end up converting to E1 on top of that. Buccal and sublingual administration is vastly superior, but even many endos don't know about it, so it's not promoted among legit users, whereas it's widely known about diyers.
      Secondly, people are given laughable doses, like 2-4mg a day, combine it with oral administration, and you're screwed. Like, it's a good starting dose, but after the first 4 months it's a joke.
      Patches and even gels are superior to oral administration because it all goes directly into your bloodstream. Everything is superior to oral administration.
      All that said, pills do work, you just need to take them properly, I started on 6mg sublingual mono and successfully suppressed my T and got good E levels. Well, technically I started on 2mg, but by the 4th month I bumped it up to 6mg.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        oh my god a unicorn! nobody else i can find has ever tried monodosing sublingual estradiol, has that been working out for you? my levels came back great from 200mg spiro and 6mg sublingual estradiol daily, but spiro is making me literally stupid so i want to kick my spiro to the curb and just take 8-10mg estradiol sublingually per day (maybe also add prog)... but everyone seems to go injections at that point despite pills still seemingly being possible. what's your experience with mono e via pills been? have you found any others who have done it successfully?

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          [log in to view media]

          Yeah, I did my first year on sublingual progynova, after that I switched to injections since it's a lot cheaper. Picrel is my levels after like 6mo on HRT, I already was doing 6mg, my trough E2 levels used to fluctuate between 250 and 350pg/mL, really depended on how late I took my last pill the day before and then how early I went in to get my blood tested. Also, consider the buccal route if you salivate too much. Up to 8mg is fine, but try it with 6mg first. And for the context, when I first started HRT my T was >720ng/dL.

      • 2 weeks ago
        vintologi.com

        I do not think sublingual administration is a great option either since then you need to take it every 2 hours to get decently stable E-level.

        Injections seem to be the best options. You might be best off skipping anti-androgens completely (regardless of dosage).

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          everybody shits on ethinylestradiol for the blood clot risk but there's a reason birth control still uses it. oral estradiol isn't great for the vast majority of patients.

          • 2 weeks ago
            vintologi.com

            I do not think ethinylestradiol is a particularly great birth-control option either.

            Estradiol injection is a much better option for trans females.

      • 2 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        oh my god a unicorn! nobody else i can find has ever tried monodosing sublingual estradiol, has that been working out for you? my levels came back great from 200mg spiro and 6mg sublingual estradiol daily, but spiro is making me literally stupid so i want to kick my spiro to the curb and just take 8-10mg estradiol sublingually per day (maybe also add prog)... but everyone seems to go injections at that point despite pills still seemingly being possible. what's your experience with mono e via pills been? have you found any others who have done it successfully?

        Is it possible to do sublingual with pills intended for oral use? Sublingual E pills are not available in my country.

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          yes, but they'll take more time to dissolve and you might have more trouble with not swallowing it

        • 2 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          I was literally taking progynova, that's for oral use. They just take a bit longer to dissolve, it's literally whatever.

          I do not think sublingual administration is a great option either since then you need to take it every 2 hours to get decently stable E-level.

          Injections seem to be the best options. You might be best off skipping anti-androgens completely (regardless of dosage).

          >I do not think sublingual administration is a great option either
          It's vastly superior to oral, everything is better than oral. I even linked my blood work from back when I was doing sublingual mono. Don't be so overdramatic.

  7. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    i'm on 8mg progynova a day
    no balls so no T blocker
    am I being hon dosed? or is my body just immune to estrogen?

    • 2 weeks ago
      vintologi.com

      that's not hondosing but it would still be better to inject.

      hrt.vintologi.com

  8. 2 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Look, this is way higher than female range and yet it's harmful.

    The American Urology Association (AUA) identifies low blood testosterone (Low-T) as less than 300 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL). These symptoms or conditions may accompany Low-T: Low sex drive. Fatigue.

    Levels of testosterone and other androgens can be measured with a blood test. In women, normal testosterone levels range from 15 to 70 nanograms per deciliter (ng/dL) of blood.

Your email address will not be published.