>Stop lying to yourself >Be aware that you do make mistakes, and its okay as long as you try not to make a habit of it >Don't view people as assets or liability. Narcissists can't even survive without leeching other people >Learn to give a little (JUST A LITTLE) without expecting much in return >Self-reliance is a really important skill to have >Learn to feel okay when people leave you or don't reciprocate the same feelings towards you >Do not take things personally all the time
Most importantly >Don't think you're the best out of everyone else you meet. Not only there are bigger fish, but even the smallest fish can be deadly. Some times, real humbleness can help you go further than arrogance.
A more vulnerable narc would most likely live on his own head most of the tme and be more delusional and not having this contact with reality might make his delusions of grandeur in an almost psychotic state. I know because I was like that.
The more grandiose type would need suply from others and being all alone might bring great anxiety because he has to face who and what he is.
But even the vulnerable narcissist might get better if they are very self-aware and decide to not live on their head all the time and just live on the moment then their delusions might get mitigated and they might have to face who they are and what they are too.
>But even the vulnerable narcissist might get better if they are very self-aware and decide to not live on their head all the time and just live on the moment then their delusions might get mitigated and they might have to face who they are and what they are too.
thats me right now narcisistic poster. btw thanks (I think you are the one who created a topic on curing narcissism like a month ago, where you wanted to try out sam vaknin method) if not u i would never even hear about sam
The opposite, with no one to bring you to reality, you'll fully retreat to delusions of grandeur and overpowering inner monologue. I spend several hours a day interviewing myself about my successful campaign for world domination.
>Become narcissistic when alone (because I'm good at stuff) >Become narcissistic when around other people (because they give me attention)
I can't lose, sorry. >/LULZ/ demoralisation psyops work less and less
Bye bye
i truly do not see the point of narcissists. no offense if you are one. ultimately if you lack empathy you will have the tendency to behave antisocially (actual anti social). every malignant narcissist ive met was extremely traumatizing to the people close to them. in an ideal society, people with npd would be very few in number because people would know how to detect and avoid them.
That's one thing about narcissism that it is kinda misunderstood. It is not exactly that we don't have affective empathy and that we cannot feel guilt.
We can feel it, I feel it all the time, but it has to be forced out of us, we need to consciously put in other people's shoes to actually feel those emotions.
I don't know if this makes things better or worse, but we are not incapable of feeling empathy, we just choose to not feel it.
uhh
no
if you are actually a narcissist and have empathy, it is not in the form of emotional empathy. you likely have cognitive empathy, hence why many narcissists are good manipulators, but in terms of actually "feeling what others go through," narcissists lack that capability. thats quite literally one of the defining characteristics of npd, otherwise many people could be considered actual pathological narcissists.
>if you are actually a narcissist and have empathy, it is not in the form of emotional empathy.
Have you actually read what narcissism is? When psychiatrist and psychologist talk about lack of empathy they talk about an unwillingness to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. An unwillingness to empathize with another person is not the same as being unable to empathize.
I know the difference, I am just saying you are wrong. I thought I was just a different form of narc that could actually feel guilt and empathy, emotional one, but there've been studies showing that when people high on narcissism are asked to empathize with the person they can actually feel sadness and feel for the person.
I don't really want to change your view about narcissist, if you want to hate us, you can it doesn't matter.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
> just prompt them to empathize forever, as you do with most humans that are unharmful
yeah no. if they are not malignant npds i dont care nor do i care to cater to those that are. if you can call prompted empathy empathy, then fine. but most npds do not change their behavior or willingness to empathize if they dont have a self serving reason to. that to me is what distinguishes an npd individual from others if i were cynical of people in general. i dont hate npds if they just keep to themselves or other npds, i am just saying i think their pathology is generally unwanted in society.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>npd that doesn't like competition
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
malignant npds are the ones who actually fuck up other peoples lives. hitler and other famous dictators had npd. like i said i dont care about other peoples neuroses unless it affects me. mental illness is not an excuse to be a dogshit person.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>malignant npds are the ones who actually fuck up other peoples lives. hitler and other famous dictators had npd
lol proof? other than you think they are bad people and so obviously they are also badword
Can you explain to me why do you keep bringing malignant narcs all the time? They are not the majority of narcs.
Also, it is not like that, if you keep forcing the narc to feel empathy all the time it will become a more instantenious and natural thing and the narc will feel empathy unprompted.
I'd be careful of listening to people on the internet. It's very easy for others to tell you that you are the problem and they are the solution and if only you submit to them, to their ways everything will be better.
Feeling is overrated and highly subjective. Think rationally if you are treating people fairly and more importantly, are the rules you set for yourself the same for others.
While people have different values and thus we might not agree on what rules are in place, the only thing that really is horrible is when it's rules for thee but not for me.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
there are multiple sources online linking dictators to narcissism and it really does not take that much critical thought to understand that the behavior of a dictator indicates the presence of malignant npd/sociopathy or psychopathy.
the rules for social norms is constantly changing. malignant narcissists are likely to abuse a person's ability to feel fear and anxiety, etc. and their own inability to empathize in order to control others, negating the point of social contract in the first place. > Feeling is overrated
no. it isn't. human beings not being aware of their impact on other's emotions are the cause of all suffering. yes, myself included. the world would be better if people were less entitled and kept the shitty parts of their mental illness/conditions to themselves.
i dont have anything against self aware narcissists.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>there are multiple sources online linking dictators to narcissism
There are multiple sources online linking working out to becoming right wing. That trannies are okay and natural and so on.
Unfortunately we have to realize that sources on the internet are not some divine law passed on to us with no way of being wrong. >no. it isn't.
It is when it comes to arriving at fairness and justice.
Just because one feels or doesn't feel does not make them perfectly benevolent or perfectly malignant.
You can feel up a bunch of made up bullshit and cause lots of harm to others.
You can feel nothing and go by cold logic that applies to all equally and be just and fair. >the world would be better if people were less entitled and kept the shitty parts of their mental illness/conditions to themselves.
Sure, but they would need to arrive to some kind of objective conclusion that they have an issue. And not because one person screamed to the other person that their feelings are right and the other person is wrong, because they feel so strongly. >i dont have anything against self aware narcissists.
Again the question being, how does one define these things in a way that it can't be thrown around as just cope.
As with most labels they quickly get thrown around at anybody you disagree with.
That person is a badword, where the badword is really anything negative, autist, fascist, narccisist, nazi, racist etc etc etc. But how often is the badword thrown actually have any validity to the case.
Right now narc is a very trendy way to dehumanize others, but often the people who throw that shit around can't even objectively apply it to others that can't also be applied to them.
So all of it is just a jumbled mental diharee of how can I paint myself as the hero and others as the bad guy to have emotional permission to abuse others.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
a lot of this is a matter of having some degree of emotional intelligence and communicating your emotions effectively. i dont think anyone should use their emotions to tyrannize. i also dislike people using their lack of emotional empathy to harm others. both extremes are unnecessary and harmful and disliking one doesnt mean justifying the other.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>a lot of this is a matter of having some degree of emotional intelligence and communicating your emotions effectively.
Nothing wrong with that. >i dont think anyone should use their emotions to tyrannize.
This is what I'v seen happen a lot, in fact I think this happens a lot more often than, >i also dislike people using their lack of emotional empathy to harm others.
Because people swept up in their own emotions are the ones who are going to be the most blind to others.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
there is literally nothing youre saying im disagreeing with. if youre accusing me of doing so, which would be entirely speculative and based off an imageboard impression of all things, youre accusing me of something that i dont even think is a good thing, try to justify in any sense, or is immutable according to other people's criticism.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Can you explain to me why do you keep bringing malignant narcs all the time? They are not the majority of narcs.
Also, it is not like that, if you keep forcing the narc to feel empathy all the time it will become a more instantenious and natural thing and the narc will feel empathy unprompted.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
i said it in previous posts. i dont like mental illness that affects other people. if you could work on it, maybe i would have sympathy, but npd has some of the worst effective treatment so i just think its fit to say i dislike malignant narcissists as people.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>but npd has some of the worst effective treatment
That's because majority of narcs are unwingly to get better and if you don't want to get better therapy is not gonna work.
The first and hardest step in treating narcissism is having the patient accept that there might be something wrong with them.
I also will continue disagreeng with you on the emotional empathy thing, if we just keep forcing ourselves to feel for others and keep putting ourselves in other's shoes we will feel emotional empathy in a more normal and natural way, but this must be a conscious effort of the narc, he must want this in order to get better.
Also malignant narcissism is literally fucking cancer narcissism and it is more close to sociopathy than npd on itself, I don't like being compared to them at all
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Although I say this, I recognize that NPD is hard to treat as hell, not because of the emotional empathy thing, that might be the easiest part, but the grandiosity and the false-self bullshit.
Schema therapy and TFP-N seem to be effective on treating narcissism.
I particularly am willignly to travel to the US to get TFP-N because I hate this disorder, but I think online therapy could also work, I don't know much about the subject if online therapy really is that much different from irl therapy.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
define grandiosity and false self bullshit.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I tried to write how I experience my false-self but I am not smart enough to explain it
so I will let Sam Vaknin explain how he experiences his false-self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCthA6IZYWI
Just a word of warning, he is a malignant narcissist and he might use this video so you can feel bad for him, but do not feel bad for him, he is a very sadistic individual.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I'v listened for 5 min and its all just yap yap yap yap fancy words and vague notions.
No point in sight.
this is trash.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
I can try to explain my internal world then.
Basically I don't exist, I don't know what I like or dislike, everything is done for the sole reason of getting narcissistic supply, that is positve attention. I am never authentic, I am never my true-self, I am always faking and putting on a show so others might like me and I don't feel worthless. I tried since I was 15 to get this mask out and just do what I want, but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me", it is pathological in the sense that it is ingrained in my brain.
That is the worst, most disturbing and hardest to treat part of NPD to me, because I feel empty, the false-self makes me feel like I don't even fucking exist, I hate NPD a lot mainly because of this false-self bullshit.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Basically I don't exist, I don't know what I like or dislike, everything is done for the sole reason of getting narcissistic supply, that is positve attention.
Oh, so the opposite of me. I know what I want to an exquisite detail. Often I will follow it at the cost of getting no favor or negative favor of those around me. Ironically people will say this daring to stand out and follow my path is narcissistic. >I am never authentic, I am never my true-self, I am always faking and putting on a show so others might like me and I don't feel worthless.
Well the inverse of that is me, who is 100% authentic all the time and I am left with feeling that nobody likes me, which you can imagine is more hurtful because it's my trueself, so I can't just cope by saying this was a fake persona I put on and thus the real me wasn't judged unfavorably. >but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me"
In my case, because I'v been so bombarded by negative stimuli while being my trueself, I have grown detached. I neither feel strongly when people "praise me" because it just feels like they are just saying that kind of shit as a politeness but they don't really mean it because most people are cowards that do whatever is socially good for their perception. So they will be nice even if they don't mean it, because their actions are very much consequence driven.
The only people who can make me "Feel" a compliment or a critique, is close significant others
In any case, >but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me"
I "feel" worthless because others treat me as such.
But at the same time I like myself and I believe in the things I stand for. I'm still "worthless" to others though based on their world view.
continued...
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Basically I don't exist, I don't know what I like or dislike, everything is done for the sole reason of getting narcissistic supply, that is positve attention.
Oh, so the opposite of me. I know what I want to an exquisite detail. Often I will follow it at the cost of getting no favor or negative favor of those around me. Ironically people will say this daring to stand out and follow my path is narcissistic. >I am never authentic, I am never my true-self, I am always faking and putting on a show so others might like me and I don't feel worthless.
Well the inverse of that is me, who is 100% authentic all the time and I am left with feeling that nobody likes me, which you can imagine is more hurtful because it's my trueself, so I can't just cope by saying this was a fake persona I put on and thus the real me wasn't judged unfavorably. >but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me"
In my case, because I'v been so bombarded by negative stimuli while being my trueself, I have grown detached. I neither feel strongly when people "praise me" because it just feels like they are just saying that kind of shit as a politeness but they don't really mean it because most people are cowards that do whatever is socially good for their perception. So they will be nice even if they don't mean it, because their actions are very much consequence driven.
The only people who can make me "Feel" a compliment or a critique, is close significant others
In any case, >but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me"
I "feel" worthless because others treat me as such.
But at the same time I like myself and I believe in the things I stand for. I'm still "worthless" to others though based on their world view.
continued...
>because I feel empty, the false-self makes me feel like I don't even fucking exist,
In my case I exist but feel like my existence is denied from this world. Like I don't belong, like I'm born in the wrong time, etc etc.
Again the issue being is that I believe in something, I put myself out there, I get denied.
I sometimes wondered if it would have been better to choose to put on a fake persona that people love and cope with being well liked even if it's not the real me.
Or if being the real me that I really like myself, but being denied by all others is the better way.
You'll notice I brought a lot of things about me, but that is because I related in a inverse way. Like the two deep ends of the opposite spectrum.
I guess you can take away form this is that there is challenges in any path we take and the path you took, doesn't necessarily mean it was the worst or wrong one.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>I sometimes wondered if it would have been better to choose to put on a fake persona that people love and cope with being well liked even if it's not the real me.
Being the real you is better, please do not ever wish this disaster upon you.
Being fake all the time, even now I am being fake I think, I want your sympathy I think.
You'll notice that I used "I think" twice, because I really don't know wtf am I doing, if I am being fake or real, I don't ever know.
I don't know why NPD exists but we are not normal human beings we are closer to robots or something like that.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>Being the real you is better, please do not ever wish this disaster upon you.
Well I'v gone too deep to change my choice now. If I did, I would have neither benefits of either choice but the downsides of both. >even now I am being fake I think
how? >I want your sympathy I think.
You can get sympathy for many reasons, you don't need made up ones? >You'll notice that I used "I think" twice, because I really don't know wtf am I doing
Why not simply "choose"?
You are your choices, even the "fake mess" you have become, is part of you, and the choice you made was to appeal to others for their validation. > if I am being fake or real, I don't ever know.
I think, what you are is made up of what you choose to be and the things you manage to be.
Currently you are operating a lot on what you can be, but if you made some concrete choices, those would help you have a more stable goal/vision towards something. >I don't know why NPD exists but we are not normal human beings we are closer to robots or something like that.
Partially it sounds like the reason is that you highly value what others think and crave their validation. Which, I mean who doesn't want to be validated by others, I know I do.
But the difference between you and me for instance, is that I though if I am the real me, most people wont like me, but some people will, hell even if just one person will like the real me, I will be happy.
Of course little did I realize that I might end up with literally nobody validating my choices.
In your case, rather than sacrifice a lot of peoples validation or even all of them. You choose to sacrifice exploring your own identity. And thus you lose a self because you are always trying to appeal to others.
Good news is, nothing is stopping you from exploring that identity other than habit and the pain of being rejected by other humans.
If you can somehow find it in yourself to be okay on some level to not be liked by others, then you can take steps to be the real you.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
Why are you being so nice to me?
Weren't you hating people with NPD a minute ago?
And don't be nice to me, it makes my false-self grow, You actually made me hard when you were kind to me, so you know I am fucked in the head and you shouldn't compliment me.
>otherwise many people could be considered actual pathological narcissists.
but that is exactly what is happening
>if you are actually a narcissist and have empathy, it is not in the form of emotional empathy.
Have you actually read what narcissism is? When psychiatrist and psychologist talk about lack of empathy they talk about an unwillingness to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. An unwillingness to empathize with another person is not the same as being unable to empathize.
Narcissism is not the same thing as sociopathy.
>Have you actually read what narcissism is?
it means bad person, just like facist, or nazi, and who are those people? People who I dislike of course!
Anything you say to this, can and will be considered as "thats just what a badword, would say"
what else are you going to do about neurodivergence that harms other people? no one would give a shit about people with malignant npd if they kept their cancer to themselves. in reality many mentally ill people are capable of being abusive towards other, hell, even use their mental illness as an excuse. no offense but i dont want some random drug addled nagger cannibalizing me on a train because they heard voices in their head. or some malignant npd parasite bearing children and subjecting kids to their homosexual neuroses.
>what else are you going to do about neurodivergence that harms other people?
And where is the proof that they are nerodivergent and malignant and not you?
How do you approach this objectively?
What prevents a malignant narcissist from calling normal people narcissists for not "empathizing with their needs more"?
Again "narcisism" is just another word people use for "bad person I disagree with" to beat them over the head until they do what you want them to do.
I found in life that selfless people don't go around shouting about how everybody else is a narc. It's usually the selfish, the self centered people who think they deserve more and that others are thinking too much of themselves that tells others "hey you, why are you thinking of yourself, that is so selfish, you should be instead thinking of me, a good person, why are you so shit, how dare you think of your needs, what about MY needs, you narc you horrible person"
Truth of the matter is, all of this shit is just used to beat others over the head and bully them until they do what you want. No I don't care how much you convinced yourself you are the good guy in this story. There needs to be universal rules and more parties involved that make the judgement call, rather than the self interested party declaring everybody else as le bad people.
if you dont feel emotional empathy (regardless of whether youre being prompted to or not, ie not utilizing solely to serve your own self interests or "controlling" it) then i dont think your pathology is beneficial to society. thats all im saying. i have a general distaste for people who use mental illness as an excuse to harm others.
>if you dont feel emotional empathy (regardless of whether youre being prompted to or not, ie not utilizing solely to serve your own self interests or "controlling" it) then i dont think your pathology is beneficial to society.
You realize people don't know what the other person actually feels?
They just make shit up in their head and think it's accurate.
You can have very strong emotions and think that is what the other person is experiencing, but you could be entirely off the mark.
So what you are valuing is somebody feeling stuff.
As if feeling emotions prevents you from doing harm. It does not. >i have a general distaste for people who use mental illness as an excuse to harm others.
what about people who brand others as mentally ill and malicious so they can then abuse said people with not only guilt free consciousness but with the express blessing of it, a highly pleasurable righteous indignation.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
do you feel sad just by viewing other people feel sad? thats emotional empathy. you are complicating a natural and regular emotional process of most humans. > what about people who brand others as mentally ill and malicious so they can then abuse said people with not only guilt free consciousness but with the express blessing of it, a highly pleasurable righteous indignation.
i dislike malignant, key word, malignant narcissists. holy shit i am not going to coddle some narcissistic little shit and their traumatizing behavior. if youve ever been subjected to narcissistic abuse or had a narcissistic family member in real life you'd know how fucking toxic and entitled these cunts are.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>do you feel sad just by viewing other people feel sad? thats emotional empathy.
And if the other person isn't feeling sad and just acting? Should you "feel" sad then?
What if the person you are viewing is not or not longer capable of feeling sad, but something horrible is happening to them nonetheless. Should you feel empathy and feel "sad" even though they aren't?
If you feel sad for them, but your actions remain unchanged, was there a point to feeling sad? What if you felt reallllllly sad, but still didn't change anything because of various reasons.
Again, I don't think feeling and subjective things are a good benchmark for good behavior, because at the end of the day the shit that is happening in your head is not as important as what your actions are, which get put out into the real world. >i dislike malignant, key word, malignant narcissists.
Yes, but who decides who is malignant. What is stopping a narcissist from calling other people are malignant narcissists until they submit to doing whatever the narc wants? > holy shit i am not going to coddle some narcissistic little shit and their traumatizing behavior.
is what a narc could say to themselves, right before they absolutely abuse other people. But of course they aren't a narc in their own mind, they are the good person, hero who is a victim. >if youve ever been subjected to narcissistic abuse or had a narcissistic family member in real life you'd know how fucking toxic and entitled these cunts are.
Doesn't sound very empathetic wholesomechungus to me anon, are you sure you are empathetic enough to your family members? Oh what's that, they are just pieces of shit who deserve no empathy. Yes, very convenient.
also
mental illness is not an excuse to be a shitty person. there is no excuse for being a shitty person. i am sick of people using mental illness as an excuse for being awful people.
>mental illness is not an excuse to be a shitty person.
Nothing is an excuse to be a shitty person. But people will be shitty to others both intentionally and unintentionally trough the course of their life.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
> And if the other person isn't feeling sad and just acting? Should you "feel" sad then?
yes? thats how movies and books are. media that evokes empathy. narcissists lack a lot of the mirror neuron functioning that enables emotional empathy. they dont feel anything in response to other people expressing emption.
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
>yes? thats how movies and books are. media that evokes empathy.
So the important thing for you is that people have an automatic reaction that makes them hook and feel.
But here is a question.
If a person feels and empathizes and then despite that goes on to harm and abuse others. Is that fine?
If a person doesn't feel anything, but had strict sense of fairness or rule set and doesn't abuse others, is that bad?
Both cases are entirely possible and do happen.
And as we can see, feeling does not mean that abuse is impossible, nor is it a requirement to avoid abuse.
Then, why place such a great importance on feelings, rather than actions?
3 weeks ago
Anonymous
also
mental illness is not an excuse to be a shitty person. there is no excuse for being a shitty person. i am sick of people using mental illness as an excuse for being awful people.
>Is being alone the only way to cure narcissism in yourself?
Being alone has only made me more narcissistic
Not like I really mind, though
It's one hell of a confidence booster
WHY do narcs have to suck off energy of other people always? You just know when you are around it you can sense it its like they leech energy off of you like a black hole draws surrounding mass into it.
>WHY do narcs have to suck off energy of other people always?
The idea behind this is that we cannot generate our own energy because we don't really know or understand who we are, so we need constant affirmation from the outside that we are good, great or whatever.
i dont think malignant narcissists could be aware of the damage they cause other people even if they tried. their repertoire of abusive behavior has been honed over a lifetime if it really is a personality disorder, combined with a lack of ability to feel remorse, you essentially just get someone who's primary coping mechanisms are harmful to other people.
Not really, I'm extremely alone and still a virgin but i enjoy getting looks from girls when I go out just got a new fragrance and i see myself as superior to people often i have inner monologues and criticize everyone i see in my head
>this thread
I really dislike modern society that likes to take literally any action or reaction and describe it as a mental illness. And the only "not mentally" ill people, are the ones that coincidentally, do exactly what you want them to do.
what else are you going to do about neurodivergence that harms other people? no one would give a shit about people with malignant npd if they kept their cancer to themselves. in reality many mentally ill people are capable of being abusive towards other, hell, even use their mental illness as an excuse. no offense but i dont want some random drug addled nagger cannibalizing me on a train because they heard voices in their head. or some malignant npd parasite bearing children and subjecting kids to their homosexual neuroses.
quite the opposite, unless you go outside and substantially interact with people you'll realize you're worth less than a turd in a sea of 9 billion people where at least 40 million share your ambitions
join a karate or boxing gym for example, there are millions around the world and tenfolds the amounts of people prcaticing it, about half of them want to be world champions and olympic medalists
that's the brutality normal people subtly realize but for autists like you it's a revelation that needs to be explained and manifested
I see, I thought you were another person with npd actually, kek, but it seems like I was the only npd talking with that other guy.
You are a nice person, I hope I can get better too, I seriously hope that. Sometimes I meet very empathic people around the internet and it feels nice to not be demonized for once.
>I thought you were another person with npd actually
Well people on this site have called me that, not that I think there is any merit to it. >You are a nice person
I actually aim to be fair rather than "nice".
People don't deserve malice or nice. They deserve what they deserve based on their actions with me. >Sometimes I meet very empathic people around the internet and it feels nice to not be demonized for once.
Eh, I don't really believe in all these "mental illnesses" that people like to throw around as insults and as a way to gain dominance over others.
There are bad behaviors and that need to addressed. But those are handled by a case by case basis.
Everybody has something that is holding/hurting themselves/others back.
I may or may not have the luxury of dealing/fixing with that. But I do wish to avoid the emotional masturbation of feeling superior through shitting on others. People crave the feeling of being malicious towards other with the express blessing of their conscience.
That little something, an excuse, that lets them go "finally I can be a shithead towards you because you deserve it(be it real or imagined)"
I rather people have a little hope for themselves, enough to uplift them, enough to grow into something better, at the very least into something they think is better.
Nigga WHAT
>original
>Stop lying to yourself
>Be aware that you do make mistakes, and its okay as long as you try not to make a habit of it
>Don't view people as assets or liability. Narcissists can't even survive without leeching other people
>Learn to give a little (JUST A LITTLE) without expecting much in return
>Self-reliance is a really important skill to have
>Learn to feel okay when people leave you or don't reciprocate the same feelings towards you
>Do not take things personally all the time
Most importantly
>Don't think you're the best out of everyone else you meet. Not only there are bigger fish, but even the smallest fish can be deadly. Some times, real humbleness can help you go further than arrogance.
>>Do not take things personally all the time
How?
You all know very well what the only cure is.
Especially (You).
That... that usually exacerbates narcissistic tendencies. Often times, it's why people become narcissists in the first place.
It truly depends of the narc.
A more vulnerable narc would most likely live on his own head most of the tme and be more delusional and not having this contact with reality might make his delusions of grandeur in an almost psychotic state. I know because I was like that.
The more grandiose type would need suply from others and being all alone might bring great anxiety because he has to face who and what he is.
But even the vulnerable narcissist might get better if they are very self-aware and decide to not live on their head all the time and just live on the moment then their delusions might get mitigated and they might have to face who they are and what they are too.
>But even the vulnerable narcissist might get better if they are very self-aware and decide to not live on their head all the time and just live on the moment then their delusions might get mitigated and they might have to face who they are and what they are too.
thats me right now narcisistic poster. btw thanks (I think you are the one who created a topic on curing narcissism like a month ago, where you wanted to try out sam vaknin method) if not u i would never even hear about sam
The opposite, with no one to bring you to reality, you'll fully retreat to delusions of grandeur and overpowering inner monologue. I spend several hours a day interviewing myself about my successful campaign for world domination.
>Become narcissistic when alone (because I'm good at stuff)
>Become narcissistic when around other people (because they give me attention)
I can't lose, sorry.
>/LULZ/ demoralisation psyops work less and less
Bye bye
No it won't cure your narcissism, but it will stop you harming others for a while.
i truly do not see the point of narcissists. no offense if you are one. ultimately if you lack empathy you will have the tendency to behave antisocially (actual anti social). every malignant narcissist ive met was extremely traumatizing to the people close to them. in an ideal society, people with npd would be very few in number because people would know how to detect and avoid them.
>ultimately if you lack empathy
That's one thing about narcissism that it is kinda misunderstood. It is not exactly that we don't have affective empathy and that we cannot feel guilt.
We can feel it, I feel it all the time, but it has to be forced out of us, we need to consciously put in other people's shoes to actually feel those emotions.
I don't know if this makes things better or worse, but we are not incapable of feeling empathy, we just choose to not feel it.
uhh
no
if you are actually a narcissist and have empathy, it is not in the form of emotional empathy. you likely have cognitive empathy, hence why many narcissists are good manipulators, but in terms of actually "feeling what others go through," narcissists lack that capability. thats quite literally one of the defining characteristics of npd, otherwise many people could be considered actual pathological narcissists.
>if you are actually a narcissist and have empathy, it is not in the form of emotional empathy.
Have you actually read what narcissism is? When psychiatrist and psychologist talk about lack of empathy they talk about an unwillingness to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others. An unwillingness to empathize with another person is not the same as being unable to empathize.
Narcissism is not the same thing as sociopathy.
if you have npd, actual npd, you dont have emotional empathy. you can have cognitive empathy is what im saying
I know the difference, I am just saying you are wrong. I thought I was just a different form of narc that could actually feel guilt and empathy, emotional one, but there've been studies showing that when people high on narcissism are asked to empathize with the person they can actually feel sadness and feel for the person.
psypost.org/2014/05/narcissists-can-feel-empathy-research-finds-25423
I don't really want to change your view about narcissist, if you want to hate us, you can it doesn't matter.
> just prompt them to empathize forever, as you do with most humans that are unharmful
yeah no. if they are not malignant npds i dont care nor do i care to cater to those that are. if you can call prompted empathy empathy, then fine. but most npds do not change their behavior or willingness to empathize if they dont have a self serving reason to. that to me is what distinguishes an npd individual from others if i were cynical of people in general. i dont hate npds if they just keep to themselves or other npds, i am just saying i think their pathology is generally unwanted in society.
>npd that doesn't like competition
malignant npds are the ones who actually fuck up other peoples lives. hitler and other famous dictators had npd. like i said i dont care about other peoples neuroses unless it affects me. mental illness is not an excuse to be a dogshit person.
>malignant npds are the ones who actually fuck up other peoples lives. hitler and other famous dictators had npd
lol proof? other than you think they are bad people and so obviously they are also badword
I'd be careful of listening to people on the internet. It's very easy for others to tell you that you are the problem and they are the solution and if only you submit to them, to their ways everything will be better.
Feeling is overrated and highly subjective. Think rationally if you are treating people fairly and more importantly, are the rules you set for yourself the same for others.
While people have different values and thus we might not agree on what rules are in place, the only thing that really is horrible is when it's rules for thee but not for me.
there are multiple sources online linking dictators to narcissism and it really does not take that much critical thought to understand that the behavior of a dictator indicates the presence of malignant npd/sociopathy or psychopathy.
the rules for social norms is constantly changing. malignant narcissists are likely to abuse a person's ability to feel fear and anxiety, etc. and their own inability to empathize in order to control others, negating the point of social contract in the first place.
> Feeling is overrated
no. it isn't. human beings not being aware of their impact on other's emotions are the cause of all suffering. yes, myself included. the world would be better if people were less entitled and kept the shitty parts of their mental illness/conditions to themselves.
i dont have anything against self aware narcissists.
>there are multiple sources online linking dictators to narcissism
There are multiple sources online linking working out to becoming right wing. That trannies are okay and natural and so on.
Unfortunately we have to realize that sources on the internet are not some divine law passed on to us with no way of being wrong.
>no. it isn't.
It is when it comes to arriving at fairness and justice.
Just because one feels or doesn't feel does not make them perfectly benevolent or perfectly malignant.
You can feel up a bunch of made up bullshit and cause lots of harm to others.
You can feel nothing and go by cold logic that applies to all equally and be just and fair.
>the world would be better if people were less entitled and kept the shitty parts of their mental illness/conditions to themselves.
Sure, but they would need to arrive to some kind of objective conclusion that they have an issue. And not because one person screamed to the other person that their feelings are right and the other person is wrong, because they feel so strongly.
>i dont have anything against self aware narcissists.
Again the question being, how does one define these things in a way that it can't be thrown around as just cope.
As with most labels they quickly get thrown around at anybody you disagree with.
That person is a badword, where the badword is really anything negative, autist, fascist, narccisist, nazi, racist etc etc etc. But how often is the badword thrown actually have any validity to the case.
Right now narc is a very trendy way to dehumanize others, but often the people who throw that shit around can't even objectively apply it to others that can't also be applied to them.
So all of it is just a jumbled mental diharee of how can I paint myself as the hero and others as the bad guy to have emotional permission to abuse others.
a lot of this is a matter of having some degree of emotional intelligence and communicating your emotions effectively. i dont think anyone should use their emotions to tyrannize. i also dislike people using their lack of emotional empathy to harm others. both extremes are unnecessary and harmful and disliking one doesnt mean justifying the other.
>a lot of this is a matter of having some degree of emotional intelligence and communicating your emotions effectively.
Nothing wrong with that.
>i dont think anyone should use their emotions to tyrannize.
This is what I'v seen happen a lot, in fact I think this happens a lot more often than,
>i also dislike people using their lack of emotional empathy to harm others.
Because people swept up in their own emotions are the ones who are going to be the most blind to others.
there is literally nothing youre saying im disagreeing with. if youre accusing me of doing so, which would be entirely speculative and based off an imageboard impression of all things, youre accusing me of something that i dont even think is a good thing, try to justify in any sense, or is immutable according to other people's criticism.
Can you explain to me why do you keep bringing malignant narcs all the time? They are not the majority of narcs.
Also, it is not like that, if you keep forcing the narc to feel empathy all the time it will become a more instantenious and natural thing and the narc will feel empathy unprompted.
i said it in previous posts. i dont like mental illness that affects other people. if you could work on it, maybe i would have sympathy, but npd has some of the worst effective treatment so i just think its fit to say i dislike malignant narcissists as people.
>but npd has some of the worst effective treatment
That's because majority of narcs are unwingly to get better and if you don't want to get better therapy is not gonna work.
The first and hardest step in treating narcissism is having the patient accept that there might be something wrong with them.
I also will continue disagreeng with you on the emotional empathy thing, if we just keep forcing ourselves to feel for others and keep putting ourselves in other's shoes we will feel emotional empathy in a more normal and natural way, but this must be a conscious effort of the narc, he must want this in order to get better.
Also malignant narcissism is literally fucking cancer narcissism and it is more close to sociopathy than npd on itself, I don't like being compared to them at all
Although I say this, I recognize that NPD is hard to treat as hell, not because of the emotional empathy thing, that might be the easiest part, but the grandiosity and the false-self bullshit.
Schema therapy and TFP-N seem to be effective on treating narcissism.
I particularly am willignly to travel to the US to get TFP-N because I hate this disorder, but I think online therapy could also work, I don't know much about the subject if online therapy really is that much different from irl therapy.
define grandiosity and false self bullshit.
I tried to write how I experience my false-self but I am not smart enough to explain it
so I will let Sam Vaknin explain how he experiences his false-self https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCthA6IZYWI
Just a word of warning, he is a malignant narcissist and he might use this video so you can feel bad for him, but do not feel bad for him, he is a very sadistic individual.
I'v listened for 5 min and its all just yap yap yap yap fancy words and vague notions.
No point in sight.
this is trash.
I can try to explain my internal world then.
Basically I don't exist, I don't know what I like or dislike, everything is done for the sole reason of getting narcissistic supply, that is positve attention. I am never authentic, I am never my true-self, I am always faking and putting on a show so others might like me and I don't feel worthless. I tried since I was 15 to get this mask out and just do what I want, but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me", it is pathological in the sense that it is ingrained in my brain.
That is the worst, most disturbing and hardest to treat part of NPD to me, because I feel empty, the false-self makes me feel like I don't even fucking exist, I hate NPD a lot mainly because of this false-self bullshit.
>Basically I don't exist, I don't know what I like or dislike, everything is done for the sole reason of getting narcissistic supply, that is positve attention.
Oh, so the opposite of me. I know what I want to an exquisite detail. Often I will follow it at the cost of getting no favor or negative favor of those around me. Ironically people will say this daring to stand out and follow my path is narcissistic.
>I am never authentic, I am never my true-self, I am always faking and putting on a show so others might like me and I don't feel worthless.
Well the inverse of that is me, who is 100% authentic all the time and I am left with feeling that nobody likes me, which you can imagine is more hurtful because it's my trueself, so I can't just cope by saying this was a fake persona I put on and thus the real me wasn't judged unfavorably.
>but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me"
In my case, because I'v been so bombarded by negative stimuli while being my trueself, I have grown detached. I neither feel strongly when people "praise me" because it just feels like they are just saying that kind of shit as a politeness but they don't really mean it because most people are cowards that do whatever is socially good for their perception. So they will be nice even if they don't mean it, because their actions are very much consequence driven.
The only people who can make me "Feel" a compliment or a critique, is close significant others
In any case,
>but the mask is just too firm, even when I am alone I think "if others saw me they would praise me or think good things about me"
I "feel" worthless because others treat me as such.
But at the same time I like myself and I believe in the things I stand for. I'm still "worthless" to others though based on their world view.
continued...
>because I feel empty, the false-self makes me feel like I don't even fucking exist,
In my case I exist but feel like my existence is denied from this world. Like I don't belong, like I'm born in the wrong time, etc etc.
Again the issue being is that I believe in something, I put myself out there, I get denied.
I sometimes wondered if it would have been better to choose to put on a fake persona that people love and cope with being well liked even if it's not the real me.
Or if being the real me that I really like myself, but being denied by all others is the better way.
You'll notice I brought a lot of things about me, but that is because I related in a inverse way. Like the two deep ends of the opposite spectrum.
I guess you can take away form this is that there is challenges in any path we take and the path you took, doesn't necessarily mean it was the worst or wrong one.
>I sometimes wondered if it would have been better to choose to put on a fake persona that people love and cope with being well liked even if it's not the real me.
Being the real you is better, please do not ever wish this disaster upon you.
Being fake all the time, even now I am being fake I think, I want your sympathy I think.
You'll notice that I used "I think" twice, because I really don't know wtf am I doing, if I am being fake or real, I don't ever know.
I don't know why NPD exists but we are not normal human beings we are closer to robots or something like that.
>Being the real you is better, please do not ever wish this disaster upon you.
Well I'v gone too deep to change my choice now. If I did, I would have neither benefits of either choice but the downsides of both.
>even now I am being fake I think
how?
>I want your sympathy I think.
You can get sympathy for many reasons, you don't need made up ones?
>You'll notice that I used "I think" twice, because I really don't know wtf am I doing
Why not simply "choose"?
You are your choices, even the "fake mess" you have become, is part of you, and the choice you made was to appeal to others for their validation.
> if I am being fake or real, I don't ever know.
I think, what you are is made up of what you choose to be and the things you manage to be.
Currently you are operating a lot on what you can be, but if you made some concrete choices, those would help you have a more stable goal/vision towards something.
>I don't know why NPD exists but we are not normal human beings we are closer to robots or something like that.
Partially it sounds like the reason is that you highly value what others think and crave their validation. Which, I mean who doesn't want to be validated by others, I know I do.
But the difference between you and me for instance, is that I though if I am the real me, most people wont like me, but some people will, hell even if just one person will like the real me, I will be happy.
Of course little did I realize that I might end up with literally nobody validating my choices.
In your case, rather than sacrifice a lot of peoples validation or even all of them. You choose to sacrifice exploring your own identity. And thus you lose a self because you are always trying to appeal to others.
Good news is, nothing is stopping you from exploring that identity other than habit and the pain of being rejected by other humans.
If you can somehow find it in yourself to be okay on some level to not be liked by others, then you can take steps to be the real you.
Why are you being so nice to me?
Weren't you hating people with NPD a minute ago?
And don't be nice to me, it makes my false-self grow, You actually made me hard when you were kind to me, so you know I am fucked in the head and you shouldn't compliment me.
>you likely have cognitive empathy, hence why many narcissists are good manipulators
Sounds like being a normal modern woman.....
>otherwise many people could be considered actual pathological narcissists.
but that is exactly what is happening
>Have you actually read what narcissism is?
it means bad person, just like facist, or nazi, and who are those people? People who I dislike of course!
Anything you say to this, can and will be considered as "thats just what a badword, would say"
>what else are you going to do about neurodivergence that harms other people?
And where is the proof that they are nerodivergent and malignant and not you?
How do you approach this objectively?
What prevents a malignant narcissist from calling normal people narcissists for not "empathizing with their needs more"?
Again "narcisism" is just another word people use for "bad person I disagree with" to beat them over the head until they do what you want them to do.
I found in life that selfless people don't go around shouting about how everybody else is a narc. It's usually the selfish, the self centered people who think they deserve more and that others are thinking too much of themselves that tells others "hey you, why are you thinking of yourself, that is so selfish, you should be instead thinking of me, a good person, why are you so shit, how dare you think of your needs, what about MY needs, you narc you horrible person"
Truth of the matter is, all of this shit is just used to beat others over the head and bully them until they do what you want. No I don't care how much you convinced yourself you are the good guy in this story. There needs to be universal rules and more parties involved that make the judgement call, rather than the self interested party declaring everybody else as le bad people.
if you dont feel emotional empathy (regardless of whether youre being prompted to or not, ie not utilizing solely to serve your own self interests or "controlling" it) then i dont think your pathology is beneficial to society. thats all im saying. i have a general distaste for people who use mental illness as an excuse to harm others.
>if you dont feel emotional empathy (regardless of whether youre being prompted to or not, ie not utilizing solely to serve your own self interests or "controlling" it) then i dont think your pathology is beneficial to society.
You realize people don't know what the other person actually feels?
They just make shit up in their head and think it's accurate.
You can have very strong emotions and think that is what the other person is experiencing, but you could be entirely off the mark.
So what you are valuing is somebody feeling stuff.
As if feeling emotions prevents you from doing harm. It does not.
>i have a general distaste for people who use mental illness as an excuse to harm others.
what about people who brand others as mentally ill and malicious so they can then abuse said people with not only guilt free consciousness but with the express blessing of it, a highly pleasurable righteous indignation.
do you feel sad just by viewing other people feel sad? thats emotional empathy. you are complicating a natural and regular emotional process of most humans.
> what about people who brand others as mentally ill and malicious so they can then abuse said people with not only guilt free consciousness but with the express blessing of it, a highly pleasurable righteous indignation.
i dislike malignant, key word, malignant narcissists. holy shit i am not going to coddle some narcissistic little shit and their traumatizing behavior. if youve ever been subjected to narcissistic abuse or had a narcissistic family member in real life you'd know how fucking toxic and entitled these cunts are.
>do you feel sad just by viewing other people feel sad? thats emotional empathy.
And if the other person isn't feeling sad and just acting? Should you "feel" sad then?
What if the person you are viewing is not or not longer capable of feeling sad, but something horrible is happening to them nonetheless. Should you feel empathy and feel "sad" even though they aren't?
If you feel sad for them, but your actions remain unchanged, was there a point to feeling sad? What if you felt reallllllly sad, but still didn't change anything because of various reasons.
Again, I don't think feeling and subjective things are a good benchmark for good behavior, because at the end of the day the shit that is happening in your head is not as important as what your actions are, which get put out into the real world.
>i dislike malignant, key word, malignant narcissists.
Yes, but who decides who is malignant. What is stopping a narcissist from calling other people are malignant narcissists until they submit to doing whatever the narc wants?
> holy shit i am not going to coddle some narcissistic little shit and their traumatizing behavior.
is what a narc could say to themselves, right before they absolutely abuse other people. But of course they aren't a narc in their own mind, they are the good person, hero who is a victim.
>if youve ever been subjected to narcissistic abuse or had a narcissistic family member in real life you'd know how fucking toxic and entitled these cunts are.
Doesn't sound very empathetic wholesomechungus to me anon, are you sure you are empathetic enough to your family members? Oh what's that, they are just pieces of shit who deserve no empathy. Yes, very convenient.
>mental illness is not an excuse to be a shitty person.
Nothing is an excuse to be a shitty person. But people will be shitty to others both intentionally and unintentionally trough the course of their life.
> And if the other person isn't feeling sad and just acting? Should you "feel" sad then?
yes? thats how movies and books are. media that evokes empathy. narcissists lack a lot of the mirror neuron functioning that enables emotional empathy. they dont feel anything in response to other people expressing emption.
>yes? thats how movies and books are. media that evokes empathy.
So the important thing for you is that people have an automatic reaction that makes them hook and feel.
But here is a question.
If a person feels and empathizes and then despite that goes on to harm and abuse others. Is that fine?
If a person doesn't feel anything, but had strict sense of fairness or rule set and doesn't abuse others, is that bad?
Both cases are entirely possible and do happen.
And as we can see, feeling does not mean that abuse is impossible, nor is it a requirement to avoid abuse.
Then, why place such a great importance on feelings, rather than actions?
also
mental illness is not an excuse to be a shitty person. there is no excuse for being a shitty person. i am sick of people using mental illness as an excuse for being awful people.
>Is being alone the only way to cure narcissism in yourself?
Being alone has only made me more narcissistic
Not like I really mind, though
It's one hell of a confidence booster
you have to confront yourself with reality
Nope, we'll actually maybe. I deal with this too so idk
WHY do narcs have to suck off energy of other people always? You just know when you are around it you can sense it its like they leech energy off of you like a black hole draws surrounding mass into it.
how does it even works
>WHY do narcs have to suck off energy of other people always?
The idea behind this is that we cannot generate our own energy because we don't really know or understand who we are, so we need constant affirmation from the outside that we are good, great or whatever.
i dont think malignant narcissists could be aware of the damage they cause other people even if they tried. their repertoire of abusive behavior has been honed over a lifetime if it really is a personality disorder, combined with a lack of ability to feel remorse, you essentially just get someone who's primary coping mechanisms are harmful to other people.
Not really, I'm extremely alone and still a virgin but i enjoy getting looks from girls when I go out just got a new fragrance and i see myself as superior to people often i have inner monologues and criticize everyone i see in my head
Narcissists can't stand being alone, only dismissive avoidants can.
And no, the only way to cure both is through therapy.
>this thread
I really dislike modern society that likes to take literally any action or reaction and describe it as a mental illness. And the only "not mentally" ill people, are the ones that coincidentally, do exactly what you want them to do.
what else are you going to do about neurodivergence that harms other people? no one would give a shit about people with malignant npd if they kept their cancer to themselves. in reality many mentally ill people are capable of being abusive towards other, hell, even use their mental illness as an excuse. no offense but i dont want some random drug addled nagger cannibalizing me on a train because they heard voices in their head. or some malignant npd parasite bearing children and subjecting kids to their homosexual neuroses.
quite the opposite, unless you go outside and substantially interact with people you'll realize you're worth less than a turd in a sea of 9 billion people where at least 40 million share your ambitions
join a karate or boxing gym for example, there are millions around the world and tenfolds the amounts of people prcaticing it, about half of them want to be world champions and olympic medalists
that's the brutality normal people subtly realize but for autists like you it's a revelation that needs to be explained and manifested
no, you need to constantly put yourself down to not be a narcissist
>30 min
>takes every opportunity to prolong the story
too long.
I see, I thought you were another person with npd actually, kek, but it seems like I was the only npd talking with that other guy.
You are a nice person, I hope I can get better too, I seriously hope that. Sometimes I meet very empathic people around the internet and it feels nice to not be demonized for once.
>I thought you were another person with npd actually
Well people on this site have called me that, not that I think there is any merit to it.
>You are a nice person
I actually aim to be fair rather than "nice".
People don't deserve malice or nice. They deserve what they deserve based on their actions with me.
>Sometimes I meet very empathic people around the internet and it feels nice to not be demonized for once.
Eh, I don't really believe in all these "mental illnesses" that people like to throw around as insults and as a way to gain dominance over others.
There are bad behaviors and that need to addressed. But those are handled by a case by case basis.
Everybody has something that is holding/hurting themselves/others back.
I may or may not have the luxury of dealing/fixing with that. But I do wish to avoid the emotional masturbation of feeling superior through shitting on others. People crave the feeling of being malicious towards other with the express blessing of their conscience.
That little something, an excuse, that lets them go "finally I can be a shithead towards you because you deserve it(be it real or imagined)"
I rather people have a little hope for themselves, enough to uplift them, enough to grow into something better, at the very least into something they think is better.
I think that would just make it worse