Im really starting to hate the Gospel of John. Without that book, the trinitarians would have NOTHING. ZIP.

I’m really starting to hate the Gospel of John. Without that book, the trinitarians would have NOTHING. ZIP. Only because of that book can they argue about Jesus being God, there is no other book that says anything like that.

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  1. 1 year ago
    JWanon

    John doesn't support triniatranism at all.

    “My Father is greater than I [Jesus].”—John 14:28.

    “I [Jesus] ascend unto my Father, and your Father, and to my God, and your God.”—John 20:17.

    Stop hating in the word of God. It's blasphemous.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Thus when he says, the Father is greater than I, he does not mean I, as Son of God, but as Son of man, for in this way he is not only inferior to the Father and the Holy Spirit, but even to the angels: “We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels” (Heb. 2:9). Again, in some things he was subject to human beings, as his parents (Luke 2:51). Consequently, he is inferior to the Father because of his human nature, but equal because of his divine nature (Commentary on the Gospel of John 14.8)
      >When he adds “to my God and your God,” he is referring to his human nature. From this point of view God rules him; thus he says, my God, under whom I am a man (Commentary on the Gospel of John 20.3).

      • 1 year ago
        JWanon

        the apostle Paul wrote that after Jesus was resurrected, God “exalted him [Jesus] to a superior position.”

        Obviously, Paul did not believe that Jesus was Almighty God. Otherwise, how could God exalt Jesus to a superior position ??
        —Philippians 2:9.

        The truth is Jesus never was equal to God. Instead, Jesus worshipped God. (Luke 22:41-44)

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          St. Paul says in the passage you quoted that despite the Son being equal to the Father, he humbled himself on Earth, in contrast to Adam who sought equality with God despite lacking it.

          5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
          6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
          7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
          8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
          9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

          • 1 year ago
            JWanon

            That isn't what Paul is saying at all.

            note how other translations render this verse:

            1869: “who, being in the form of God, did not regard it as a thing to be grasped at to be on an equality with God.” The New Testament, by G. R. Noyes.

            1965: “He—truly of divine nature!—never self-confidently made himself equal to God.” Das Neue Testament, revised edition, by Friedrich Pfäfflin.

            1968: “who, although being in the form of God, did not consider being equal to God a thing to greedily make his own.” La Bibbia Concordata.

            1976: “He always had the nature of God, but he did not think that by force he should try to become equal with God.” Today’s English Version.

            1985: “Who, being in the form of God, did not count equality with God something to be grasped.” The New Jerusalem Bible.

            Ralph Martin, in The Epistle of Paul to the Philippians, says of the original Greek: “It is questionable, however, whether the sense of the verb can glide from its real meaning of ‘to seize’, ‘to snatch violently’ to that of ‘to hold fast.’” The Expositor’s Greek Testament also says: “We cannot find any passage where ἁρπάζω [har·paʹzo] or any of its derivatives has the sense of ‘holding in possession,’ ‘retaining’. It seems invariably to mean ‘seize,’ ‘snatch violently’. Thus it is not permissible to glide from the true sense ‘grasp at’ into one which is totally different, ‘hold fast.’”

            From the foregoing it is apparent that the translators of the King James are bending the rules to support Trinitarian ends.

            Far from saying that Jesus thought it was appropriate to be equal to God, the Greek of Philippians 2:6, when read objectively, shows just the opposite, that Jesus did NOT think it was appropriate.

            Moroever Paul also said:
            >But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; AND THE HEAD OF CHRIST IS GOD.
            -1 Corinthians 11:3

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            None of those translations contradict that Jesus Christ was equal to God and demonstrated humility in human form (ultimately leading to the crucifixion and the salvation of souls.)

          • 1 year ago
            JWanon

            That isn't what the verse says. Paul here encourages the Philippians to cultivate an outstanding attitude like that of Jesus.

            At Php 2:3, Paul tells them: “With humility consider others superior to you.” In verse 5, he continues: “Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus.” Jesus, who considered God to be superior, never ‘grasped for equality with God.’ Instead, he “humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death.” (Php 2:8; Joh 5:30; 14:28; 1Co 15:24-28)

            Jesus’ view was not like that of the Devil, who urged Eve to make herself like God, to be equal to Him. (Ge 3:5) Jesus perfectly exemplified Paul’s point here—namely, the importance of humility and obedience to the Creator, Jehovah God.

            The Greek noun used here (har·pag·mosʹ; lit., “a thing to be seized”) is derived from the verb har·paʹzo, which has the basic meaning “to seize; to snatch.” Some have suggested that this term refers to retaining something already possessed. However, the Scriptures never use the Greek term to mean the holding on to something already in one’s possession. Rather, it is often rendered “seize” or “snatch (away)” or by other such expressions. (Mt 11:12; 12:29; 13:19; Joh 6:15; 10:12, 28, 29; Ac 8:39; 23:10; 2Co 12:2, 4; 1Th 4:17; Jude 23; Re 12:5)

            >TL;DR
            If Jesus “did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God,” it must be that he was NEVER equal to God.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Christ was less than God in human form. But as he existed in the beginning, he was equal to God.

            >1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
            >2 The same was in the beginning with God.
            >3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
            >4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
            >5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
            >9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
            >10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
            >11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
            >12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
            >13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
            >14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
            >17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
            >18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

          • 1 year ago
            JWanon

            John 1 doesn't teach Jesus' equality with God. This scripture reveals details about Jesus Christ’s life before he came to earth as a human. (John 1:14-17) In verse 14, “the Word” (or “the Logos,” Greek, ho loʹgos) is used as a title. The title “the Word” describes Jesus’ role in communicating God’s commands and instructions to others. Jesus continued to make known God’s word during his ministry on earth and after he returned to heaven.—John 7:16; Revelation 1:1.

            “The beginning” refers to the time when God began his creative work and produced the Word. Thereafter, the Word was used by God in the creation of all other things. (John 1:2, 3) The Bible states that Jesus is “the firstborn of all creation” and that “by means of him all other things were created.”—Colossians 1:15, 16.

            The phrase “the Word was a god” describes the divine or godlike nature that Jesus possessed before he came to earth. He can be described in this way because of his role as God’s Spokesman and his unique position as the firstborn Son of God through whom God created all other things.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            Your heresy was condemned by the Council of Nicaea.

          • 1 year ago
            JWanon

            The heresy of Nicaea was condemned by the Bible.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >I and the Father are ONE
            That’s the essence of Nicaea. Disprove that axiom and you’ve disproved Nicaea.

          • 1 year ago
            JWanon

            That this did not mean that Jesus claimed to be the Father or to be God is evident from his reply !

            The oneness to which Jesus referred must be understood in harmony with the context of his statement.

            He was speaking of his works and his care of the “sheep” who would follow him. His works, as well as his words, demonstrated that there was unity, not disunity and disharmony, between him and his Father, a point his reply went on to emphasize. (John 10:25, 26, 37, 38; John 4:34; 5:30; 6:38-40; 8:16-18.)

            As regards his “sheep,” he and his Father were likewise at unity in their protecting such sheeplike ones and leading them to everlasting life. (John 10:27-29; Ezekiel 34:23, 24.)

            Jesus’ prayer on behalf of the unity of all his disciples, including future ones, shows that the oneness, or union, between Jesus and his Father was not as to identity of person but as to PURPOSE and ACTION !

            In this way Jesus’ disciples could “ALL BE ONE,” just as he and his Father ARE ONE.—John 17:20-23.

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >Jesus’ prayer on behalf of the unity of all his disciples, including future ones, shows that the oneness, or union, between Jesus and his Father was not as to identity of person but as to PURPOSE and ACTION !
            And yet the JWs are heretics from the One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church of Christ and encourage disunity among believers in Christ..

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            >The title “the Word” describes Jesus’ role in communicating God’s commands and instructions to others.
            Wow, it's truly amazing to see someone write something this moronic here. Imagine parading your ignorance of Greek philosophy this openly. You are not a Christian, nor even religious in any sense. You are as cut off from heaven as any atheist.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        If I had a time machine, the first person I'd kill would be Aquinas.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Well shit, that's actually a clever response to one of the biggest objections I've had about the Trinity.

        Goes to show once again just how superior classic philosophers are compared to the ridiculous shit we have today with Peterson and Zizek.

        • 1 year ago
          Anonymous

          Samegay

          • 1 year ago
            Anonymous

            moron.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >he does not mean I, as Son of God, but as Son of man
        so he can speak with only one nature despite being fully God? bruh. that opens up every other passage in the gospels where Jesus so much as opens his mouth to the wildest interpretations

  2. 1 year ago
    JWanon

    also
    >there is no other book that says anything like that.

    That is because Jehovah makes progressive revelations. He does not uncover all the mysteries at once. He does it step by step

    John is one of the last holy books ,ritten along with Revelation and his three epistles.

    The beloved apostles recounts the time when Jesus existed at the beginning of time alongside his Father, and that's beautiful

  3. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    John 17:11,21-23 btfo's trinitarianism. John is a great author. It's not his fault that trinitarians exist, that's the fault of Hellenized Christians that loved Plato and Aristotle more than scripture.

    • 1 year ago
      JWanon

      True

  4. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    The other gospels have a very high christology of you read them as a israelite and aren't trying to twist their words according to a cult

  5. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    the arians also thought jesus was god. But jesus and god the father were of a difference substance.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      Then that's polytheism at that point. That would contradict all the scripture that God is one. The doctrine of the trinity specifically developed to prevent heresies such as believing that there are two Gods.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        >Christianity relies on this much copium
        >God literally appears multiple times throughout the OT and is described in ways that don't resemble Jesus whatsoever
        >trinity holds that Jesus was co-eternal beginning long before any events of the OT thus has to just assume that God waited until some time later to reveal his sonselfwhateverform

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Basically Christ for them was just the greatest of his creations, the highest of the angels.

  6. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Job 9:8: Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea.
    Psalms 77:19: Thy way is in the sea, and thy path in the great waters, and thy footsteps are not known.
    Mark 6:48: And he saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.

    Yeah John is surely the only gospel that portrays Jesus as YHWH

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      are you saying that if i write a new book inserting my character in ways that fulfil verses its ok?

      gospel of thomas does not portray jesus as a supernatural being.

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        the gospel of thomas is not scripture, it was based on the diatessaron and is a late 2nd century work.

    • 1 year ago
      Anonymous

      >Job 9:8
      >Psalms 77:19
      so that's where the gospel authors got their inspiration for the story of him walking on water. thanks for pointing it out

      • 1 year ago
        Anonymous

        Anytime schizo

  7. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    Why do you hate so much the idea that God incarnated itself?

  8. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    I think God made the Trinity ambiguous just so that Christians would have something to talk about all day.

  9. 1 year ago
    Anonymous

    >Christ directly inspired John to wrote his gospel just to BTFO any seething fool who tried to deny his divinity
    Pretty based fr fr no cap. Jesus was truly bussin

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