I'm not a religious person, but lately, I've been considering pretending to be one. Being part of a religion can come with several benefits, such as having a supportive community, networking opportunities, and a sense of belonging.
However, the thing is, I don't believe in any of the actual religious stuff. I'm not sure if pretending to be religious is the right thing to do. On the one hand, it seems like it could be beneficial for me to have those connections and support. But on the other hand, I don't want to be dishonest about my beliefs.
>convert to judaism
>acquire shekels from goyim
>win win
>Converts are actively looked down upon by most israelites
There's no hope for the goyim, maybe if you convert and breed a Khazar femoid your kids, or more likely grandkids, will be accepted
Our world was not an accident. It didn't randomly happen
that video is dumb
matter always existed. the universe always existed. things just changed. naturally, the things exist in a way that allows life to exist, otherwise it wouldn't
no need for any "god" to exist for that to be true
But they don't
Biology adapts, evolves
Physics does not.
The laws of physics that determined our universe 0.1 seconds after the big bang went off are the same physics that we have now, and we will have 0.1 seconds before the world ends.
The laws of physics are consistent in ways biology is not, if you pick up an object and let go, it always falls to the ground, it's not like humans who sometimes do their homework or animals who sometimes eat even when they're not hungry. It happens every time
We don't find errors that would be challenging but not impossible. We never accidentally cause nuclear reactions because we hit something and accidentally split an atom. Nobody ever falls through the floor because electrons stop repelling matter correctly.
Physics is consistent and works
>or would that perhaps uncover a very illegal bioweapons program?
before that
always was the same
and it's not evidence of a creator or deity
I don't understand what you are trying to say.
Please rephrase
the fact that all sorts of things exist in a very "perfect" way - so a very, very miniscule change would prevent all life from existing, does not support at all the claim that "God" is real or that this universe was created by a god
it's just the way it is and always was
the universe didn't get created
Fine tuning and intelligent design arguments yeah. They say designs always have a designer, but designers also always leave a mark like a signature or logo
they also don't explain how this "god" exists and can do things without existing in a place and taking up space
his "mark" would be designing everything in such a way that it looks like it happened via natural causes, so as to suggest he doesn't exist at all
Right, nor do they explain why god can be creationless while some unconscious particle or force cant have the same quality
>it's just the way it is and always was the universe didn't get created
Why isn't the universe more chaotic if it came into being by chance?
We can see digital worlds, ones that are procedurally generated, those worlds have all kinds of flaws we do not observe in our reality
>Why isn't the universe more chaotic if it came into being by chance?
just because that's how it is
>We can see digital worlds, ones that are procedurally generated, those worlds have all kinds of flaws we do not observe in our reality
how are there not flaws in our reality?
it's full of flaws
and you could say those creations are not flaws and actually do exactly what they were designed to do, the designers just screwed up
Give me some flaws in our physics system
>Give me some flaws in our physics system
the issue is that it can't be "flawed" because reality is the baseline of "correct' therefore it must be correct, no matter what it is, because all reality is truth
>Why isn't the universe more chaotic if it came into being by chance?
The universe is extremely chaotic
The universe is intelligible
If the universe was not intelligible, science would be impossible
What is science? It's making a hypothesis, experimenting, and observing the result.
If every time you experimented the results were different, the world would be chaotic, and the results of experimentation would be unintelligible
This "argument" works for any infinite hypothetical universes that would result in sentience.
>physics exist therefore god
>shitting, farting, homosexualry and flies that lay eggs in your brain exist therefore not god
I am just pointing out there is a different between Biology, which adapts through evolution, and Physics which is consistent and unchanging.
I was pointing out that the physics of our world has none of the hallmarks of poorly configured physics we see in digital worlds, and this is evidence of fine tuning
>this is evidence of fine tuning
no it's not. it's evidence that reality is real. that's literally it
there are certain aspects of reality, the universe, that just are. these things don't change. there are no "errors" because an "error" would, in this case, be defined as something that can not exist
because there isn't a "purpose" behind the existence of reality. it simply exists, and always has
Why does reality perform well instead of poorly?
My theory is fine tuning. Yours is it just happens to be that way? it's a coincidence nobody is accidentally splitting atoms and an a nuclear reaction is difficult to sustain?
Thats just an argument from ignorance. We dont know, therefore god. Why not just say you dont know instead of inserting some nebulous thing that doesnt even answer the question?
No, it's not ignorance. I am claiming our physics was fine-tuned
I am trying to argue that this could not have happened by chances. It's like a thousand switches were all in the correct slots
I would compare the odds to two planes full of computer parts crashing into one another, and coincidentally assembling a fully functioning computer
It quite actually is an argument from ignorance fallacy. Youre claiming(not demonstrating with evidence) that the universe is fine tuned because it appears that way to you and other religious people. No actual evidence that seperates it from random chance. Like if a cup was knocked over, and there were mouse droppings around the cup, it would be reasonable to assume a mouse knocked the cup over. You havent shown any mouse droppings in this assumption
If the universe had a beginning, then it must have had a cause. However, the cause of the universe cannot be something that exists within the universe because that would mean it was caused by something else, and the cycle of causation would go on infinitely. Therefore, the cause of the universe must be something that exists outside of the universe, or something that is not caused itself.
This uncaused cause is often referred to as the "first cause," and it is posited by some philosophers and scientists that this first cause is the universe itself. In other words, the universe is a necessary existence because it exists necessarily and cannot be otherwise.
One way to think about this argument is to consider the concept of mathematical truths. Mathematical truths, such as 2+2=4, are considered necessary truths because they exist necessarily and cannot be otherwise. Similarly, some philosophers argue that the universe exists necessarily and cannot be otherwise.
I am just pointing out that shitting is evidence against fine tuning.
Yeah i just tried that, and while the people were really nice and really liked me, i just couldnt get past some of the retarded delusional beliefs. Worth a shot though, maybe you arent as hard headed as i am
Most religious people don't believe most of it either, don't think about it, or "reinterpret" it, honestly.
>I don't believe almighty being actually exist
So? You can be secular practitioner of religion
>Anon, how...
Easy.
Even if supernatural doesn't exist, bunch of people believe in it making it as real as people's thoughts and those influence their actions making them important.
So in that sense God is real, just not in a way devout believers think.
On top of that, as you noticed, many religious practices are beneficial to society, so you can still partake in them.
If someone asks about God, just be diplomatic and respond that you don't know, so you're there just in case.
Should do the trick.
>However, the thing is, I don't believe in any of the actual religious stuff.
>But on the other hand, I don't want to be dishonest about my beliefs.
Then unironically study NDEs and realize that there actually is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die. While the Bible and the Qu'ran convinces few people and are outdated, the book in pic related is known to convince even hardened skeptics that there is an afterlife.
Here is a very persuasive argument for why NDEs are real:
It emphasizes that NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and when people go deep into the NDE, they all become convinced. As this article points out:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mysteries-consciousness/202204/does-afterlife-obviously-exist
>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
Since NDErs are representative of the population as a whole, and they are all convinced, then 100% of the population become convinced that there is an afterlife when they have a sufficiently deep NDE themselves. When you dream and wake up, you instantly realize that life is more real than your dreams. When you have an NDE you immediately realize that life is the deep dream and the NDE world is the undeniably real world by comparison.
Or as one person quoted in pic related summarized their NDE:
>"As my soul left my body, I found myself floating in a swirling ocean of multi-colored light. At the end, I could see and feel an even brighter light pulling me toward it, and as it shined on me, I felt indescribable happiness. I remembered everything about eternity - knowing, that we had always existed, and that all of us are family. Then old friends and loved ones surrounded me, and I knew without a doubt I was home, and that I was so loved."
Even ultraskeptical neuroscientists are convinced by really deep NDEs.
>study NDEs and realize that there actually is an afterlife and that we are eternal and will go to heaven unconditionally when we die
NDE is you tripping
i had one myself
zero evidence of an afterlife
if you take a lot of drugs you'll know
>"Among those with the deepest experiences 100 percent came away agreeing with the statement, "An afterlife definitely exists"."
i had a NDE and didn't feel that
>NDErs are representative of the population as a whole
nope. most of the population is religious anyway
do other animals have an afterlife?
do chimps? dogs ?cats? bugs? trees?
>NDE
>near death experience
>NEAR
Let me know when they resurrect someone thats been dead for 30 years and interview them
Lets all pretend we believe mythology so it never joins the other mythologies in death of obsolescence.
I've shared the same sentiment OP. There is a huge religious community here (8 churches within walking distance) and I've considered just pretending to be religious to get in with a community.
The story I plan to use is that my family used to be religious, but through some hardships I stopped believing in God, but realized how my belief in God gave me a purpose in life, Ever since this rediscovery I've felt like my bond with God has grown stronger. The trials and tribulations I was put through were merely a test of my faith, for which I do not want God to think I gave up on Him.
It is funny how christians will go into defining the god into existence with a healthy dose of sophistry and obfuscating through complex phenomena that aren't explained yet or are difficult to explain. Meanwhile the reason they believe in god is because my aunt died and i felt something during the funeral and now i feel gods presence in my brain.
You think acting retarded all the time is worth these "benefits"?
op just join a club of some sort or a volunteer organization. same shit minus religion
Or you could stop being doubleminded and just convert to a religion you genuinely believe in.
>a religion you genuinely believe in
there isn't any
That sounds like a personal problem, then.
is there a religion that accepts the theory of evolution in general, and also there's no afterlife, and isn't ethnicity-based?
>is there a religion that accepts cultural lies and doesn't force you to grow as a person and doesn't challenge your false pretenses of the world
No and you're not going to get anywhere in life by being a midwit.
evolution is real though
also there's no reason to believe in an afterlife
Ignoring the child in the room saying it is god and speaking like adults for a moment. That made me realize that physics are "fine tuned" within the bounds of their own internal logic. There could be millions of worlds with completely different fundamental interactions we call physics like 5 dimensional words where none of those constants even exist. The whole concept of fine tuning is absolutely meaningless by that token among others.
So have I, I'm basically a practicing monk already, I don't drink, don't have sex I am completely selfless because I'm suicidal, but I fear that It will be weird being a 20year old alone, I'm not religion and am somewhat stringently opposed to it, If my family finds out they arent going to like it given they are strongly atheistic. Also I think that religious stuff can just be a bit cringe.
And even if everything goes to plan and I meet a girl am I going to be stuck keeping up the facade of being a Christian.
I suppose if someone had advice on where to get into Christian shit where there's a high likelihood of meeting 18-20year old girls then please give me the advice, I suppose I could volunteer, I think a lot of the group opportunities are going to be either kids or pensioners.
I live in a town in England for context, if people have any ideas for places to meet Christian girls please tell me.
Lying about your intentions isn't a great way to get ingratiated into a community if you want it to last. Also, >Being part of a religion can come with several benefits, such as having a supportive community, networking opportunities, and a sense of belonging
You're only ever going to "belong" if your intentions are genuine. If you're looking to convert or willing to see what a religion is about then that's different but don't "pretend" to be a part of something you're not, and the people there will call you out on being secular sooner rather than later. It sounds like you want the fellowship that religious communities offer without having to deal with any of the actual mental work involved with being a part of a religion, and in that case you should just join a club or convention or something related to interests you actually have instead of being a charlatan.
I thought similar and concluded that I want to live in a world of honesty (Not possible because I can't change people) so I would rather not behave like every other homosexual and do things dishonestly. Religion may help, but I feel like even that is a lottery to find a girl. And its like you said, I as well don't believe in it. I believe in its structure, certainly, but not the religion and worship.
So I choose to live alone and honest.
Fuck this world btw.