>If we do a surprise act of aggression it will be easier to avoid large scale conflict with the US

>If we do a surprise act of aggression it will be easier to avoid large scale conflict with the US
What were they thinking???

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  1. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    There was 0% chance america would ever invade japan.

  2. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They thought the US would be easier to fight than the Soviets.

  3. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They weren't

  4. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    >the americans clearly want war with us so we might as well start it by smashing their pacific fleet in one go

    that's what they were thinking, they just fricked up the execution, plus were unfortunate that the carriers were not at pearl harbor

    The Japs really should have either A) sent the 2nd wave or B) Attacked the Johnson islands, instead they chose C) go home only destroying one ship and damaging a handful.

    • 2 years ago
      Anonymous

      They should've gotten their oil and steel by invading Siberia instead of provoking the UK + US

      • 2 years ago
        Anonymous

        >provoking the US
        except it was the US that was provoking and agitating Japan with its embargoes and demands of Japanese withdrawal from China.

        The Japs for their part actually partook in diplomacy to try and appease the US but it didn't work as the US demanded they basically become a vassal of America. No soverign country would have accepted the american demands

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Why not just invade the European colonies instead of attacking the US. In that case if the US went to war it would be for the sake of some far off colonies, which would likely be unpopular in the US once casualties mount. Attacking the US meant that there wasn’t going to be a quick peace like Japan had hoped, better to not attack them and let them come to you.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            because contemporarily it's just not something you'd gamble.

            "the US would totally have done nothing if Japan attacked the colonies"
            Given the US's imperialist history, it just isn't going to happen. Roosevelt would get america involved into a war with japan regardless of public opinion.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            But the chance for a peace favorable to Japan is higher if the US attacked Japan rather than the other way around.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Not him
            I might be wrong about this, but the final straw for Japan attacking Pearl Harbor was apparently a dream had by a japanese general. They could have easily not attacked pearl harbor when they did, or it could have been delayed by a year

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Look up the Russian-Japanese war of 1905.

            The japanese began that war with an attack on Russian ports, Port Arthur I believe it was called.

            After thrashing the russian navy, the Russians sued for peace.

            Why would this be any different for America?

            People's opinions are skewed because of what happened. It's easy to say "America would never surrender" when America never actually suffered any major defeat like the Japanese did at Midway.

            Had the Japanese smashed the US navy in either 1941 or by June 1942, then who knows what would have happened.

            >The US had infinite resources and could just make more ships
            I think it's actually alot more difficult to rebuild a navy during war against a superior adversary.

            Even if the Japanese allowed the US to rebuild a whole new fleet by mid 1943, there's no guarantee that the Japanese wouldn't defeat this green fleet either.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Japan could not prevent the Atlantic ship yards from operating even with the entire Pacific fleet in Davy Jones locker. You all seem to forget the US and allies had an entire second shit tier fleet the Asiatic fleet that Japan spent until Midway dealing with pretty much solely so no matter how well pearl harbor goes the US has time. Third this isn't a Baku oil fields situation Japan knows it cannot ever get access to US oil. Even in defeat the US doesn't lift the trade embargo on oil it just leaves the Pacific. Japan's complete perfect victory never includes a land invasion of the US that was always literally a fairy tale that not even fanatics considered.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >the Russians sued for peace.
            The Russians lost Port Arthur to a ground assault, and were suffering from severe political and economic turmoil that directly threatened the survival of the regime.
            >Why would this be any different for America?
            The USA wasn't in a revolutionary situation.
            >I think it's actually alot more difficult to rebuild a navy during war against a superior adversary.
            The US had over 11 aircraft carriers on order before Pearl Harbor.
            >Even if the Japanese allowed the US to rebuild a whole new fleet by mid 1943
            They have no capacity to stop any of it, especially given all the East Coast and Great Lakes shipyards. Hawaii was at the limit of their logistical capabilities.
            > there's no guarantee that the Japanese wouldn't defeat this green fleet either
            Newer ships, better ships, in greater quantity. Yeah, nothing in war is certain, but eking out a victory at that point would be highly unlikely. Just look at the Philippine Sea, where the Japanese theoretically had the initiative and still lost badly.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Sure, but wouldn't you rather wait for the US declaration of war in the off chance that the US goes with more sanctions and embargoes instead of actual war? The US economy was like 4x of Japan's at the time, the Japanese war machine that was already stretched thin didn't stand a chance even with the advantage of a first strike attack.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >didn't stand a chance
            real life isn't HOI, not to mention they actually had a superior navy anyway

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >real life isn't HOI
            >thinks Japan actually stood a chance
            lmao

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >thinks japan didn't stand a chance
            lmao

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It literally didn't. The economy a quarter the size of the US's got most of its oil and iron from the US so the second the embargo happens that eco omy began shrinking while the US only grew more powerful. I mean the Japanese weren't even fully industrialized. Home shops participated in making weapons like the zero.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >The economy a quarter the size of the US's
            it was even smaller, it had 1/5 of the soviet union and 1/11 of the US industrial output. when japan was making the mitsubishi zeros they hauled them off in oxcarts because they didn't even have enough trucks around

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >except it was the US that was provoking and agitating Japan with its embargoes and demands of Japanese withdrawal from China.

          moron alert. The Japs were provoking and agitating everyone, they attacked everyone. The US was supplying them and told them to stop or they'll cut the aid but the Japs didn't care.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >they attacked everyone.
            >calls others morons

            God you embargo was an act of aggression moronic are the worst. Not selling someone the means to kill people, especially your friends is. Ot an act of aggression by any standard. And the US did try diplomacy and would have allowed Japan to keep Manchuria and lift the embargoes, but Japan purposefully took withdraw from China to mean all of China which the US was literally being like Manchuria isn't China you can keep it. Japan had created a death cult around the emperor and the elites couldn't control the people. The elites were forced by the people into their foolish war against the US they knew they couldn't win.

            >apan purposefully took withdraw from China to mean all of China
            no it didn't, it actually wanted to withdraw from China by this time, but there was obviously a miscommunication here.

            yeah bro they totally just started a war they knew they couldn't win /s

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            You clearly no nothing about Japan then. During this time period right before the war it was called government by assassination. There are letters from thr PM before Tojo to the old Meiji oligarchs asking if they could somehow stop this. Pretty much everyone knew they couldn't win in Japanese high command they just would rather go down fighting isntead of being assassinated. Also they did not want to withdraw from China the Japanese people wouldn't allow it. And thus they had to go to war with the US to maintain their Chinese ambitions. I don't know why I am helping you morons. Read a book.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >hey had to go to war with the US to maintain their Chinese ambitions
            no, they had to go to war with the US because the US embargoed them and so that they could get the oil from dutch colonies

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            They could have taken the colonies without attacking the US. There was no real guarantee the US would intervene if Japan took the European colonies, and if they did intervene there’s a high chance the American public wouldn’t think it’d be worth it.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >the american public
            and what did the american public think of the war with spain?

            public opinion doesn't matter to governments, see basically every war (or special military operation) the US has been involved in since ww2.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >invading China, Indonesia, etc
            >not attacking
            Pick one, you fricking subhuman

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            they invaded indonesia after the US you nonce

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          God you embargo was an act of aggression moronic are the worst. Not selling someone the means to kill people, especially your friends is. Ot an act of aggression by any standard. And the US did try diplomacy and would have allowed Japan to keep Manchuria and lift the embargoes, but Japan purposefully took withdraw from China to mean all of China which the US was literally being like Manchuria isn't China you can keep it. Japan had created a death cult around the emperor and the elites couldn't control the people. The elites were forced by the people into their foolish war against the US they knew they couldn't win.

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Hiroboo cope. Japan was an aggressor with active plans to genocide most of China and seize U.S territories in the Pacific to create their own empire.

          Japan was the aggressor.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            It's not cope, it's projection.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >cope projection
            it's neither, itsa grasp on reality

            >USA IS INVINCIBRU
            is cope and projection

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >except it was the US that was provoking and agitating Japan with its embargoes
          >"You HAVE to sell us YOUR oil so that we can kill YOUR friends or that's an act of aggression!"

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            >your friends
            sure

            how do you think the US would react if China stopped selling them the raw materials used to manufacture computer chips ?

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Get computer chips from Taiwan instead.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Taiwan is part of china and thus my question

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            But they're two separate political entities. There's also no reason for Taiwan to do such a thing. A more accurate question would be, "Would the US embargo China if they invaded Taiwan" and the answer is pretty clearly yes.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            nice way to avoid the question

            >pretty clearly yes.
            it really isn't clear that the US would tank their own economy.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Those chips are made by Dutch and other Western companies.

          • 2 years ago
            Anonymous

            Get computer chips from Taiwan instead.

            Taiwan is part of china and thus my question

            But they're two separate political entities. There's also no reason for Taiwan to do such a thing. A more accurate question would be, "Would the US embargo China if they invaded Taiwan" and the answer is pretty clearly yes.

            absolutely anus annihilated

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          Are you genuinely moronic or trolling?

        • 2 years ago
          Anonymous

          >Aaaaaa what the frick do you mean I can't just invade your ally and massacre Chinese by the millions and also increasingly threaten your other ally???? Wtf AmeriKKKans keeping the Jap man down!

  5. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    There are theories that pearl harbor was fake and gay and staged by the OSS

  6. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    It was that or give up their greater east asia ambitions. They took a risk. Didn't work out.

  7. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    they assumed that if they in their first strike took the pacific fleet out of the equation. They would have the time to achieve their goals and take over their side of the pacific.
    The amricans would find them selves in a position where they had no way to win and would thus seek to negotiate.
    As they assumed correctly that crossing to pacific to give decisive battle was not an option and even more so without bases along the way and in the eastern pacific.
    What they got wrong as not taking out the carriers. And that the americans coming to the same conclusion about the problems with a decisive battle. Where leaning into other strategies.
    And those holding those new strategies back were in the battleship fleet and those got sunk.
    In effect the japanese sunk their victory condition. ie strike first, that what you need hope the amricans don't come but if they do sink their fleet and force them to talks.

  8. 2 years ago
    Anonymous

    They fell for their own memes. Germany and Japan got high off their own supply and genuinely thought the Americans were "merchant mutts who can't fight" and the Soviets were "Bolshevik subhumans with no intelligence". homosexuals got BTFO because they severely underestimated the enemy

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