If the Pope was the definite authority from the beginning why did they hold councils?

If the Pope was the definite authority from the beginning why did they hold councils? Why didn’t Athanasius just write a letter to the Pope, saying: Hey, there’s this Arius guy, who’s been saying such and such. What’s your infallible take on that? Seems like a waste of time and energy to hold councils and debates…

  1. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    even catholic theologians admit papal infallibility, fuck, even the bishop of rome having a special role in any way is a historical innovation

    catholicism is obviously false

  2. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    True. The Council of Jerusalem alone disproves Petrine jurisdictional supremacy.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      Councils were necessary to guide the Church and to avoid doctrinal errors that have arisen over time.

      That doesn't though.

      [...]
      Very strange that you don't have to care about any of this if you believe the Bible.

      The Bible is not the only foundation piece of the Christian faith. That's thinking like a Muslim.

  3. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Before the 1800s information actually moved quite slowly, so it was wise to get all of the bishops together to hash out important theological issues so everyone leaves on the same page. And even then, conciliarism couldn't preserve the unity of the church. You had factions of bishops declaring their own clique councils, like the council of Hieria or the second council of ephesus (which actually caused the orientals to schism). You also had the council of Florence, which WAS ecumenical, officially reunify the church. All but one of the eastern bishops, plus the greek emperor, affirmed the union.

    The Bishops returned to Greece and were hassled by the mob to reject the council, denying the holy spirit, and breaking the union which they had agreed to. Then the Turks conquered Greece, and anti-unionist bishops were given the sultans favor. The same thing happened in Russia, Unionists like Isadore of Kiev were arrested or exiled by the Grand Prince, and not long after the Russians declared their autocephaly.

    This is the power of orthodox conciliarism in action, folks. The reason the orthodox are still in schism is because they were buck broken by slavic and turkic warlords. Astonishing.

    • 3 weeks ago
      Anonymous

      The authority of the whole of the bishops is usually considered equivalent as that of the pope. And a council has many educational and political purposes like the ones mentioned

    • 3 weeks ago
      Solitaire

      The authority of the whole of the bishops is usually considered equivalent as that of the pope. And a council has many educational and political purposes like the ones mentioned

      Very strange that you don't have to care about any of this if you believe the Bible.

      • 3 weeks ago
        Anonymous

        I don't get what you mean.

        • 3 weeks ago
          Anonymous

          he means he's a protestant and that the bible alone gives you everything you need. ignore the fact that theres literally thousands of different denominations based on millions of different interpretations of the bible, many of which are entirely contradictory. But its okay because you're saved by faith in Jesus because he forgives all sins so having wrong theology isnt so bad, unless you're catholic, then your faith doesn't count and jesus wont forgive you and having wrong theology will send you to hell.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >ignore the fact that theres literally thousands of different denominations based on millions of different interpretations of the bible
            That isn't a uniquely protestant problem. There's a bunch of different interpretations people have of Catholicism

          • 3 weeks ago
            Solitaire

            Faith in Christ's work doesn't count if it's mixed with faith in your own human works.
            You have blasphemed Christ at that point, the infinite God and infinite atonement.
            It doesn't matter if you're a toe kissing Orthodox, a cookie eating Catholic, a rabid foaming Pentecostal, a white and shiny Mormon, or a feel-good non-denom.
            If you have faith in your own works, then you will be judged by your own works. And you will go to Hell.

            • 3 weeks ago
              Anonymous

              Counterpoint:
              The works of an individual are also the works of the Holy Ghost. Faith in your own works IS faith in the works of God. By working with God and maintaining faith in God, you remove the taint of your own sin. Doing just one of those isn't enough to get into Heaven. But I'm not Catholic and I believe most people end up in Sheol (not Hell).

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            >millions of different interpretations
            Only the Westminster Confession of Faith is valid though.

          • 3 weeks ago
            Anonymous

            Catholicism doesn't teach true theology though. Their theology of salvation kept changing. First it was demise on everyone outside the church then they became so liberal with it that Evangelicals would be considerd tradionalists in comparison

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  4. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Catholics would say that infallibility is not limited to the pope, and that the doctrines and structure of the Church were still subject to some debate in the Early Church so it was necessary to clarify though general councils.
    But yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense, though I think Rome pushed for special status early on, with some ambiguous justifications, and the eastern bishops agreed to some ambiguous language about primacy to placate them, and each side interpreted that language in whatever way benefited them.

  5. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Because the Pope is the final authority on the Catholic Church, but not the ONLY authority.

    You could make the same case for Bishops, yet they're still there and are pontiffs of the Church

  6. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Scholars and historians all side with the orthodox view on papal infalliblity and supremacy. It basically didn't exist, the evidence for the pope being a bishop with same authority as other bishops is so overwhelming it's funny seeing catholics try make it work and justifying it. My personal conclusion was that even though papacy isn't really justified from a historic or theological standpoint, catholics just find it to be an easier alternative than having multiple authoritive Figure heads so it really is mostly about convenience than truth.

  7. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    Seeing internet trad caths and Internet neoevangelists debate is peak comedy

  8. 3 weeks ago
    Anonymous

    I think the official explanation is that the councils receive their authority from the Pope, even if it's retroactive. The Pope can convene councils, ask for their input, and delegate tasks to them, but he makes the final decision.

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