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>I will write an epic for my people by stealing from other culture's myths!
Bravo, Tolkien. Perfect encapsulation of the Anglo spirit.
Tolkein was German.
In his mind, he was an Englishman writing le big English epic.
Just like Borges.
Borges never wrote an epic.
Those myths happened organically. Tolkien's work is an artificial construct by his own admission and he did it for profit. Imagine taking all these foreign myths, remixing them, and then putting your name on the result. Gross.
>Improve
lmao nice bait
Get a job Finnfag, this was 4:30 in the morning lmao.
Then why not write in German? Also I'm sure he had English ancestry on his maternal side.
He was british.
No he wasn’t.
OK so were the angles, jutes, and saxons who moved to England. What's your point? He was a white guy raised in England his entire life.
Tolkien infantilized world myths and added infantile elements such as goblins, dwarves, hobbits, bobbits and whatnot.
It's similar how cuisines degraded when Europeans entered American markets and you ended up with goyslop like Corn Beef Hash (ie. food suitable for Americans).
LOTR is for low brow audiences who want to escape real world myths, legends and folklore to a daydream. They cannot accept reality as it is.
>t. resentful Europoor / second world degenerate
Non-arguments.
You aren't interested in an argument, just feeling superior to a culture you don't know anything about.
Good luck staying warm this winter
Imagine falling for Putin's propaganda... What a dumb mutt...
imagine falling for a ukrainian warlords' propaganda - enjoy your winter
You're mad and I can tell
Z
>t. seething non-germanic
The hobbits are pretty stupid.
>European myths and folklore of yesteryear is more real than European myths of folklore of the 20th century
Sincerely.
Tolkien is not folklore. He's faux-folklore at best. An artificial mishmash creation used for profit and today, even for propaganda.
He's a literary writer. Go to the drunk tank
>literary writer.
He's a genre writer who took from myths.
Literary fiction is the correct term. Get the stick out of your autistic ass
>Literary fiction is the correct term
Not at all. That'd be the term if we were talking about Faulkner or Proust. Tolkien and Rowling are genre fiction.
Literary is the overarching term for fiction which is established to be "literary" in the sense of not true, as opposed to myths and folk stories, which are supposed to be "real" in some sense.
Literary fiction is fiction of the highest quality. Tolkien is genre fiction. Genre fiction is also not real.
>infantile elements such as goblins, dwarves, hobbits, bobbits and whatnot
The earliest Norse sources had trolls, goblins, elves and dwarves, and you will keep your ignorant mouth shut about my cultural heritage
These mythological entities and nations had an aura of evil, mischief and obscurity to them and were associated with races of past ages such as Tuatha Dé Danann.
In the European pagan systems, Any natural object possessed not only its material characteristics, but was a manifestation of a more or less tangible idea on which it depended. The Pool was a pool, true; but also there was a nymph or water elemental whose home it was. In her turn, the pool's inhabitant was dependent on a superior kind of nymph, who was much less closely attached to any given pool, but more to pools in general.
Tolkien infantilized all of this and made them seem like some merry little creatures having teatime and biscuits and whose sole existence was dependent on being merry little woodland critters.
And thus the whole work of Tolkien is filled with miscalculations and Christian superstitious dogmatism when trying to "unlock" and "understand" folklore of ancient Europe. Then you end up with Tolkien self-inserting characteristics to elementals and inhabitants of the earth element (gnomes), who in the folklore were laborious and patient, and they become the hideous infantile dwarves of Tolkien, who are now chiefly concerned with grossness and avarice.
>Ui! Let me sing the song of my race! And then we have jolly tea and biscuits with my Bobbity-Hobbity Fellows!
He raped the European myths.
Take your meds
>The Pool was a pool, true; but also there was a nymph or water elemental whose home it was
It is addressed in Silmarillion.
>dependent on a superior kind of nymph, who was much less closely attached to any given pool, but more to pools in general.
"'The Evil of the North has defiled the springs of Sirion, and my power withdraws from the fingers of the flowing waters.""
The Valar are the elements of Arda. Ulmo IS water. But, due to Melkor's interference, we got dead inanimated matter, i.e. modern day physics. Water becomes mere water.
>Tolkien infantilized all of this
Tolkien reutilized all of this. To provide mythological answers to different kinds of modern problems. To reactivate that mythological feel in a modern day commoner.
>An artificial mishmash creation used for profit
He wrote LotR for decades and Silmarillion throughout all his life and solely for himself. This is not how "for profit" works. But it did brought profit when published, because people sensed that the effort involved is way above your usual commercial shit.
BASED
Oh yeah Tolkien really infantilized the ADULT AND MATURE Norse mythology by adding... Dwarfs, which always existed in Norse myth?
See
I thought a lot of the power of this stuff is the supposed interrelated/perennial character of the myths. If you’re trying to fit into that tradition you aren’t really stealing you’re trying to lose your cultural particularity in the monomyth or whatever. That’s the impression I get from grazing the trad/fantasy/religion threads on LULZ at least
How do you think every other epic was made? How do you think every other culture's myths were made?
Culture doesn't form in a vacuum. Every culture borrows off of cultures in close contact with them. That's why every religion has a universal flood myth. That's why every culture and every religion has a messianic dying-God myth. That's why every culture and every religion has a Mother-Goddess myth. That's why every culture and every religion has a going-down-into-the-underworld-and-getting-out myth. Every culture, every religion. Cultures spread their mythical and epic motifs. Tolkien isn't doing anything new or alarming by any historical standard. Grow up.
>>I will improve and combine multiple European epics to create a new magical world
FIFY
But it's still white people culture.
Guess he should have based it on more Nordic/Germanic/Celtic mythos.
>Muh wypipo calchur
Retarded american
He took another nation's myths, remixed and neutered them, slappped his name on it and profitted. He IS the israelite. May I remind you that he was a philosemite and told the nazis to fuck off? Stop the /misc/tarde larp next time you suck his dick.
BASED. This literally cannot be refuted.
Cringe cuck.
We've already been over this. Go to bed, poro
Over what? You have never replied to me about this.
Tolkien didn't realise the only reason people would read his books endlessly is because the symbols for elf women and dragons are too overpowered,
he just stumbled onto those symbols by chance.
Nerds just plant the movies over the top.
Tolkien did to these myths what Disney did to fairy tales. He neutered them and made them commercial and commodified for the Anglo audience.
>stealing
And here we see the eternal israelite, culture is property, property is profit, creativity is theft, only greed, jealousy, stupidity remain
What was the problem with Arthur, really? Just because the legend of Arthur became a pan-european legend it never stopped being the "matter of england".
>treating culture and myths as some sort of commodity you can "own" and that has fucking trademark or copyright laws
Why are people like this? This is like saying the Greeks "stole" the Phoenician alphabet.
>Tolkien largely based his world on a Finnish epic, even including a constructed language heavily influenced by Finnish
>he was absolutely open about this
I don't see any problem. He didn't say anything to the contrary, as if he were saying he made everything up on its own. Also, what he made with these inspirations was entirely unique, and Tolkien will be remembered as being extremely original, literarily speaking.
Why don't you accuse him of stealing LotR's Christian concepts from the Bible and infantilizing them as well?
>He didn't say anything to the contrary
But people do. They say he invented fantasy and he was le unique original creator who fathered fantasy.
That would be Dunsany. Do you even read, bro?
Are you retarded? I'm not the one saying this fraud is the father of fantasy. I'm saying this is what some people say. And no, fantasy existed even before Dunsanny.
No, but you clearly are.
That's what some people say, even on LULZ sometimes. It's not my problem they are retarded.
It is however your problem that you seem retarded. It's make people laugh at you and automatically discard anything you say as just being more dumbfuckery from that dumb retard
But then I'm sure being called a dumb ass moron is the exact reason why you are posting on LULZ in the first case
What the fuck does that have to do with what I said? Way to deflect, nagger.
>but people do
Yeah, and not him. You shouldn't judge people by the actions of those they have no responsibility over.
>le unique original creator
He actually is. No fantasy author had done we he did, before. No author of any other genre at all, in fact. Just because a million people have tried to copy him (all of them failed,) doesn't change that he was and remains unique and original.
How was he original? He literally stole more than half the shit he's known for.
>How was he original? He literally stole
It's like saying that Homer isn't original, because he used the same oral formulas you can find in Mahabharata.
>How was he original?
Everything he fucking did was original. Did Homer invent fictional languages?
>literally stole
You really have no idea what this means. He was always open about what was inspiring him.
>Did Homer invent fictional languages?
No and neither did Tolkien. He simply copied
other languages. He made dialects at best, not languages.
That's not what I'm asking. I'm asking why is he original? It's as if Anglos convinced themselves he's somehow original and the "father of fantasy" or some nonsense. He's a myth himself. Luckily it's one we can call fraudulent.
>He made dialects at best, not languages
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_constructed_by_J._R._R._Tolkien
>Le barebones grammar and the totally-not-Finnish
Whoa such a master at creating fully fledged langauges. If the bar is like that then Dante created the Italian language with the Divine Comedy.
The amount of futile autistic butthurt of you finntrolls is absolutely glorious
Show the nice jannie where the bad Anglo touched you
>barebones grammar
>everything is finnish
He even made the effort to have the languages evolve over time. Quenya in one era is different from another. If there's anything you're going to criticize Tolkien about it shouldn't be about linguistics.
>Quenya in one era is different from another.
Lmao and it's all Finnish but changing some letters spelling.
>Gö fakk yarselphi
Whoa I invented a new language that it's totally not just English. Trust me.
Because no one gives a shit about your "culture", finn-nagger
Is that a clear enough answer for you?
Again, that's like saying Lönnrot "stole" those songs and tales to write his epic
We've already been over this
False equivalence. Tolkien said he wanted to make an epic for his people with other cultures' myths. Lönnrot was simply putting together the very folklore of his own people i.e. not taking from others.
The stories Lönnrot collected were not "his". Not his people, not his stories. He appropriated them to create a "national epic" in the style of Homer, because that was the style of the day. At least Tolkien has enough honesty to appreciate his sources and not let on that his work is the creation of anyone but himself.
Like I said, we've been over this, if you want to talk shit, at least keep up with the thread
Lönnrot took the oral stories from his own nation to put together a book. People are aware he's not the author but a folkorist. Tolkien
stole from foreign myths like the Kalevala, the Eddas, etc. to make an """""English""""" epic and somehow deceived the world into thinking he's le original creator. Differences between a noble folkorist and a israeli thief.
>People are aware he's not the author
Lönnrot is the author. He used those poor people the same way Tolkien used you poor Finns. Apparently irreparable damage has been done to the national psyche, and you had best go to the sauna and drown your sorrows in cheap spirits, because absolutely no one gives a fuck
And everyone loves Tolkien
>Putting your own nation's oral folklore onto the page so it's not lost is as bad as stealing from foreign cultures for profit and claiming it as your own
We are reaching israeli levels that shouldnt be possible.
>claiming it as your own
He was open about what was inspiring him. You've been told this multiple times.
He said he wanted to make an epic for his nation (the English). But somehow from stolen mythologies. Bizarre because if someone loves one's nation one creates something out of his own mind.
So, you misread some interview he gave and went straight to LULZ to reee?
What he made was British. What he made was also Catholic. It was just inspired by other mythologies. I don't see what the fucking problem is.
Also,
>What he made was British
Not true. He explicitly mentioned making an *English* epic.
>It was just inspired by other mythologies
Way more than inspire. That's an understatement.
And still, no one cares. There's nothing that was "yours", and what Tolkien did was much better by any measure
Let that seething eat you up while we all laugh at you
>and what Tolkien did was much better by any measure
If you like Disney movies rather than the real fairy tales, sure. Bombastic infantilized bastardizations. But if you have a developed sense of taste and critique, then no.
I'm actually glad that Amazon filled the televised Tolkien phony folklore with grotesque negroes. Based Bezos raped his creation on TV.
Cry harder. Your kalevala is national romantic thrash, so bad that no one has even tried to make a show of it in the age of Netflix/Amazon anything sells
>*English*
Whatever.
>understatement
And this somehow equates to cultural theft? He was open about all of his inspirations. He wasn't taking things from elsewhere and saying he made them up himself. Call him unoriginal if you want, but he wasn't 'stealing from the Finns'.
Please explain how it's stealing if he was always open about what this and that was inspired by. If you don't I'm going to stop wasting my time with you, which would probably be for the best.
>Call him unoriginal if you want, but he wasn't 'stealing from the Finns'.
He was. And he produced his own brand that has made billions. Stealing has its perks.
>billions
I'm done talking to you. Feel free to have the last seething word.
I don't steal. Thankfully I am not israeli. I create my own stuff, like a man.
You talk shit like a loser, that's all you do
Now go sleep it off, your head's going to be heavy in the morning
I'm sorry for having principles. It must be hard for israeli-minded thieves to understand such a thing. Even a supposed Christian like Tolkien stole. Hilarious and sad.
You don't have principles. You shitpost and spout the same slurs the same as every other il/lit/erate retard that has turned the board to shit.
It's funny how my root posts are all about Tolkien (on topic) and all you sheep's posts are about the person talking about it (off topic). If what I said was untrue you wouldn't resort to petty insults but there's truth to it so you must attack and deflect leaving me no choice but to defend myself.
We settled the thread. You keep ree'ing. You are not OT, you are autistic. Sorry to have to break it to you
kek
>We settled the thread
In your mind, maybe. None of that guy's arguments we're refuted.
Tolkien was a philosemite and an anti-nazi. His work is consoomed by leftists and liberals.
>Tolkien was a philosemite and an anti-nazi
The fact he makes /misc/ eternally ass blasted is another testament to his greatness
>your own nation
There is no "nation". You are Swedish/Russian hinterland, and got made a country as a bufferzone. And you are not Aryan, so you can take your muh israelites talk and stick it up your ass. You are not a people, you don't "own" anything. It all belongs to your cultural masters
Now go cry somewhere else
Impossibly israeli reply. I can se se your seethe, Schlomo. And no, israelites also rob people around the world.
Aww, every loser always tries the israelite card
You're the israelite around here, trying to prop yourself up by stealing some glory from poor old Tolkien
The eternal Finn at it again
>no u
Lack of arguments and onto trolling and baiting? Classic move.
It's all you've been doing this whole thread, joro
>Anglo-saxons aren't European
Peak LULZ
>All Europeans are the same and have the same national and cultural identity
Peak American /misc/tard
Tolkien religion when
I never knew Finns were such butthurt retards.
>You have to be a Finn to think Tolkien is a fraud
>He's a shabbos goy for the finns
Even worse
see
White people argue about the dumbest fucking shit
Its fiction my cracka
Where do you think you are?
/lit/
Non stop bitching and hiding behind layers of irony to make insecurities of low intelligence
/shit/ - You want innocent recommendations and literary discussion, fuck you israelite nagger have a meme pic
>I'm gonna walk in here just to tell people I'm black
Keep giving him (you)s for it and I'm sure he'll stop.
He's a retard please understand.
Sickens me the anglo Tolkien estate are literal multimillionaires through this franchise while the Karelian nations live under oppression and de-facto poverty
If all he did was steal from Finland, I'm sure you could accomplish what Tolkien did much better than him. You could probably make a lot of money, too, so that you can help out the Karelian nations with their poverty.
Indo-Europeans share a culture. Its all variations on a theme.
>Indo-Europeans share a culture
Not true.
>Not true
Variations on a theme means its not exact but derivative transformed etc. The amount of scholary work on this now is actually overwhelming and not even Tolken had access to such proof and he just went with it.
Finns are mongols, they are not I-E. Hence the spiritual hurt
>What shall I defile today?
That's right, post meme pictures to hide your tears, joro
Just thank your ancestor spirits your terrible "cultural appropriation" wasn't done by Lego or Disney... Yet.
I would rather read Tolkien than the Kalillillia or whatever it's called, sorry finnbros
It's okay. Being a soi redditor is normal these days on LULZ
I've read that the best Kalevala translation is Friberg (Penguin Classics). Is that correct?
TAL QUAN was a proud brother who had his true black history stolen by the white man. TAL QUAN was not Anglo, he was a proud black man. Learn your history chief.
>we wuz elves
>let's write modern English in Welsh runes
I still think it's hilarious how this passes for esoteric in the Anglosphere.
It's funny how your ilk always post the stupidest shit, but say it in such a haughty way. I can feel the asspain through the text, it's almost palpable.
The feeling is mutual.
It's fine, anon. I don't know what country you are from and I probably couldn't find it on a map. You're good for a laugh, though.
If you don't know basic geography I wouldn't expect you to understand literature and mythology. It's okay. Leave this for the ableminded and go back to your neutered disneyfied collages.
Basic geography includes places that matter, I am afraid.
It certainly mattered to the man whose cock you continue to suck. But I wouldn't expect the common anglo pleb to have a good education.
Oh you're the seething Finn again. Lol
>criticism on a literary board is "seething"
>Finns do not need you a bloo bloo
Then go post on your Finn board, Apu
Except I never said that. Amazing the dickriding that fanboys would go to just to defend their idol. It's like some soi website rather than LULZ's LULZ.
This is not you?
Then there are more than one of you crying in this thread, even funnier
That is in fact not me. There are thankfully lots of people exposing this thieving rat. It's good knowing not everyone on LULZ is a reddit sheep with reddit taste. Next thing you homosexuals will worship JK Rowling and Stephen King.
ITT
Hold on I made it better for our Finnbros
>It's funny
You don't sound amused.
It does have "weeb learnt his name in katakana and now believes he speaks Japanese" vibes.
Ahh yes another seething leftoid
the fact that Tolkein lives rent free in the heads of the most disgusting people warms my heart.
God rest his soul
>Country has old mythological stories
>Literally no one gives a fuck and it is all being forgotten
>Someone records it and publishes it
>Ah, this is quite inspiring. To think this was all going to vanish into oblivion, such a tragedy. I think I'll make some stories based on this. I'll also tell people their source in the hope that the originals will be spread to a wider audience.
>No stop it you can't do that!!! It's mine give it back stop stop stop!!!!
>You will be paid in exposure, bro. And I will profit from your nation's creations lol I love the israelites btw